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On January 24 2010 07:45 NoobSkills wrote:
Everyone seems to keep arguing this whole should have been a re-game angle. I don't think that is what this post is about. This post is about the decision took too long to be affirmed. They let the decision get to one of their players. After 1 hour of feeling you got robbed of a match (even though he didn't) you won't play at 100% especially if you're 17. If this situation was reverse I might see a JD 2 hatch muta all in. The fiasco killed flash in game 4 NOT jaedong.
Exactly. Both players were robbed of a proper Game 4.
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I guess this is why people take the OSL more seriously.
From my short time following progaming (like 4 months), it really seems like there are a ton of problems with the people who manage it, and their decisions. For me, as someone who again, recently started watching progaming, its really sad to see how bad its managed, not only does it make this MSL with such potential suck, but it hurts the whole image of starcraft and E-Sports.
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I am a JaeDonG fanboy and I admit that KeSPA mentally destroyed Flash in there. I agree with your post 100%. I've been looking for this finals for so long and then this shit happens. Somehow, KeSPA managed to ruin the fun again.
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These results of the MSL and OSL are the best I could have hoped for, other than the "controversial" title for JD because of Game 3. I am a Movie and Jaedong fan for sure. I started really enjoying Movie's play a few months back, and have been hoping he'd do well, and so I was happy to see him get all the way to the Finals in the OSL.
However, I do appreciate how amazing Flash is. Because of this, I thought Flash deserved a title, and since Jaedong was my absolute favorite, I wanted him to win a title as well, while Movie coming in second would also satisfy me. So, Flash got the most prestigious title, with all my hopes for the players coming true. I'm glad it turned out this way.
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On January 24 2010 07:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 07:45 NoobSkills wrote:
Everyone seems to keep arguing this whole should have been a re-game angle. I don't think that is what this post is about. This post is about the decision took too long to be affirmed. They let the decision get to one of their players. After 1 hour of feeling you got robbed of a match (even though he didn't) you won't play at 100% especially if you're 17. If this situation was reverse I might see a JD 2 hatch muta all in. The fiasco killed flash in game 4 NOT jaedong. Exactly. Both players were robbed of a proper Game 4.
Thank you this was what I was gonna say as well. After a series of misunfortunate events, I doubt anyone could've been able to play the 4th game with the right mindset. FlaSh looked drained and disappointed. No one wants a game, especially as good as that one, to end in that fashion. You gotta realize FlaSh is a 17 yr old boy, anyone at his age, at an event as big as MSL, would've just lost the will and drive to win after all that nonsense.
MSL is shit, they need a new PD and fire the one that they have right now (should've done it already when he did that stupid subliminal message during the kal vs jaedong series).
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I agree with the OP saying that who knows how Flash would have played in game 4 IF the power outage wouldn't have happened. Also, people should be very cautious when saying that Jaedong would have won game 3 "9 times out of 10" or "Jaedong pretty much had game 3". Those are quite vague assumptions and are more emotional than factual. We have all seen much greater comebacks in Starcraft. While Jaedong normally doesn't miss a beat, it's Flash he's playing against.
Flash won game 2, and I actually thought he wouldn't win the game. But he showed us all that he knew what he was doing and what if he would have used like 2 dropships in the third game too, right after the power outage occured?
Let's say he sent one dropship to Jaedong's main and one to his 3'd o clock AND simultaneously would have attacked his 7 o clock with m&m + vessels? JD might have been in great trouble tbh.
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On January 24 2010 08:19 vhallee wrote:
I am a JaeDonG fanboy and I admit that KeSPA mentally destroyed Flash in there. I agree with your post 100%. I've been looking for this finals for so long and then this shit happens. Somehow, KeSPA managed to ruin the fun again.
I don't think it's KeSPA that you should blame. IMO, they made the right decision. If MSL didnt screw up and prepared properly, this would've never happened. As far as I know, it was the computer heater that crashed FlaSh's computer.
Edit: or was it a power outage? O_O
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you know, even with the disconnect and rewarding the game to jaedong, it would have been better if flash's network of support acted like better people.
you have jaedong, his teammates and coach going up to him and basically saying, "shit, this really sucks, but keep doing what you are doing man, we are with you. play your best with no regrets and leave this match behind you"
then on the other end of the spectrum, flash's coach are going crazy, his dad is going crazy, his teammates WALK OUT ON HIM (did they? im not sure but many people have mentioned it)
i mean, they made flash BROOD over that set for like an HOUR.
instead of his coach just telling him, "wow, i don't know wtf just happened, but lets move on to the next match and pay jaedong back" you have them arguing with the refs nonstop (comon, watch the nfl or nba, arguing in the refs get you nowhere, just kicked out and fined) which came to the conclusion of nothing, wasted time and effort, and just disruptive to everyone.
ugh it rages me hard, but i have to admit, kespa made the right decision. in the SHITTY circumstances they were dealt, they proceeded with probably the best method possible.
a replay of the game would have DESTROYED jaedong's psyche. (i don't get why people believe he would just be pissed and play better, it is basically robbing him of a win almost). it was a lose-lose situation and they did the best they could (unlike other instances like leta and his monitor crashing). both players were playing their hearts out, and you saw jaedongs miracle plays (flanking, flash never had more than like 3-4 vessels, the epic defense and swarms and flash with his monster macro, almost winning the game by knocking out 2 of 3 expos)
it really is just a shame.
i wish flash's coach just went up to his booth, encouraged him for his next set and helped him calm down. i wish his dad wasnt being such a douche. i wish MBC WOULD HAVE FREAKING JUST GOT THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. but alas, you can't turn back time.
ugh, jaedong does deserve the win, but its just a shame.
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On January 24 2010 08:27 Foucault wrote:
I agree with the OP saying that who knows how Flash would have played in game 4 IF the power outage wouldn't have happened. Also, people should be very cautious when saying that Jaedong would have won game 3 "9 times out of 10" or "Jaedong pretty much had game 3". Those are quite vague assumptions and are more emotional than factual. We have all seen much greater comebacks in Starcraft. While Jaedong normally doesn't miss a beat, it's Flash he's playing against.
Flash won game 2, and I actually thought he wouldn't win the game. But he showed us all that he knew what he was doing and what if he would have used like 2 dropships in the third game too, right after the power outage occured?
Let's say he sent one dropship to Jaedong's main and one to his 3'd o clock AND simultaneously would have attacked his 7 o clock with m&m + vessels? JD might have been in great trouble tbh.
the problem was this:
flash was down to basically 1 mining base for minerals (his nat was almost mined out)
he had 10 mariens and like 5 medics left after pushing at 7 for those nonstop battles
he had no dropships, no tanks, and like 2 -3 vessels
jaedong was still running out of 3-4 bases (he was setting up 1)
if flash decided to commit most of his forces into drops, jaedong woulda just gone and destroyed flash's only mining expo (well one that would last past 2 minutes)
flash had to commit to defense (which he was trying to do, securing his min-only by retreating his few forces or be prepared to trade bases with jaedong (the most he could take out was 2 at best, 2 starport, one round of dropships, if he waited for anymore, jaedong would have amassed a nice little army since flash would have to stop pressuring him to conserve his units)
in game 2, flash was setting up 2 more expos so he had a better chance of coming back. jaedong had no army basically when he dropped (jaedong was very commited to tech units and they were like a minute off from spawning) flash had that one window to knock out jaedong and he did it beautifully, but he would also be set up for the late game if he didnt knock out jaedong with that blow. the 3rd game, if flash committed anywhere outside of his mineral only, he would lose his one real base he had left.
it sucks, but it was the right decision awarding jaedong the win.
like i said in a previous post, its just a damn shame that mbc fucked up and his coach/parents/teammates were being such assholes. complaining instead of cheering/calming down/ pumping up flash instead.
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This post just made wonder what would have happened had the power outage occurred right as flash was killing Jaedong's 3rd. I thought Jaedong was screwed at that point, but he came back and was able to get the advantage. One can argue that Jaedong was not behind at that point, but Flash had a really fucking scary army that Jaedong just sorta ran over.
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On January 24 2010 05:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Did you think they were actually in space?
ROFL
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On January 24 2010 09:17 piratebay wrote:
you know, even with the disconnect and rewarding the game to jaedong, it would have been better if flash's network of support acted like better people.
you have jaedong, his teammates and coach going up to him and basically saying, "shit, this really sucks, but keep doing what you are doing man, we are with you. play your best with no regrets and leave this match behind you"
then on the other end of the spectrum, flash's coach are going crazy, his dad is going crazy, his teammates WALK OUT ON HIM (did they? im not sure but many people have mentioned it)
i mean, they made flash BROOD over that set for like an HOUR.
instead of his coach just telling him, "wow, i don't know wtf just happened, but lets move on to the next match and pay jaedong back" you have them arguing with the refs nonstop (comon, watch the nfl or nba, arguing in the refs get you nowhere, just kicked out and fined) which came to the conclusion of nothing, wasted time and effort, and just disruptive to everyone.
ugh it rages me hard, but i have to admit, kespa made the right decision. in the SHITTY circumstances they were dealt, they proceeded with probably the best method possible.
a replay of the game would have DESTROYED jaedong's psyche. (i don't get why people believe he would just be pissed and play better, it is basically robbing him of a win almost). it was a lose-lose situation and they did the best they could (unlike other instances like leta and his monitor crashing). both players were playing their hearts out, and you saw jaedongs miracle plays (flanking, flash never had more than like 3-4 vessels, the epic defense and swarms and flash with his monster macro, almost winning the game by knocking out 2 of 3 expos)
it really is just a shame.
i wish flash's coach just went up to his booth, encouraged him for his next set and helped him calm down. i wish his dad wasnt being such a douche. i wish MBC WOULD HAVE FREAKING JUST GOT THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. but alas, you can't turn back time.
ugh, jaedong does deserve the win, but its just a shame.
This is something I wanted to point out as well.
Flash being in a really bad mental state isn't just kespas fault.
In fact as soon as they had decided what they would do, it would be incredibly foolish, and make them look way way stupider if they chose to revoke their decision just because flash's dad disagrees with them.
Flash sees his coach/team causing a shitstorm, while Jaedong is getting massaged, given positive messages and support.
In my opinion this was a stupid mistake by the KTF coach. I understand it, I would have been upset, too, I would have been fucking angry and I probably would have reacted the same way, but he shouldn't have it was wrong and a stupid thing to do, because even though he was defending flash, he sure has hell didn't help flash with how he reacted. He should have told flash's dad (who probably doesnt know shit about sc) to calm down and should have told flash to move on and focus on the next game.
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In game 4 Flash 8 raxed and Jaedong 9 pooled. This is a sizable build order disadvantage, that will result in a Jaedong victory a majority of the time. And seeing how Fighting Spirit was the map Flash thumbed down, I believe both played had planned their build orders on that map. Maybe a totally focused Flash comes back from that, but if you ask me the result would be the same anyway.
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To be honest, I don't think Flash expected a regame in his situation. Imagine you are in that same losing scenario, where you are forced to pull some sort of amazing comeback with virtually nothing to come back with. You know you've pretty much lost at that point. Even if it is the MSL finals, you're not going to argue to replay a lost game because it's not something you would expect.
Jaedong won game 3. But what happened in between is where most of the controversy lies. Flash just looked like he gave up in game 4. He didn't seem to care any more - he gg'd right as his nat was broken, which is almost never a gg situation for Terran (Flash vs Savior @ Bluestorm) - especially in the deciding game of a starleague finals.
So Jaedong won this MSL 2-1.
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this is definately my favorite starleague final since shinhan 3 osl
so much drama
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
Even the space armors were cooler than that magic studio shit -_-
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Sigh, this whole ordeal makes me sad.
It doesn't even feel like a StarLeague Finals, it was more like some show put on by MBC. Just thinking about it gives me odd feelings.
On January 24 2010 10:07 NeoOmega wrote:
In game 4 Flash 8 raxed and Jaedong 9 pooled. This is a sizable build order disadvantage, that will result in a Jaedong victory a majority of the time. And seeing how Fighting Spirit was the map Flash thumbed down, I believe both played had planned their build orders on that map. Maybe a totally focused Flash comes back from that, but if you ask me the result would be the same anyway.
Who knows, you could be right, you could be wrong. If only we could get an interview with Flash...
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On January 24 2010 11:08 BanZu wrote:Sigh, this whole ordeal makes me sad. It doesn't even feel like a StarLeague Finals, it was more like some show put on by MBC. Just thinking about it gives me odd feelings. Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 10:07 NeoOmega wrote:
In game 4 Flash 8 raxed and Jaedong 9 pooled. This is a sizable build order disadvantage, that will result in a Jaedong victory a majority of the time. And seeing how Fighting Spirit was the map Flash thumbed down, I believe both played had planned their build orders on that map. Maybe a totally focused Flash comes back from that, but if you ask me the result would be the same anyway. Who knows, you could be right, you could be wrong. If only we could get an interview with Flash...
Statistically flash would not have cheesed. Because he doesn't cheese anymore.
IMO The cheese was brought on by JD's greedy BO(good strat no credit taken away) and Flash's kid's mentality that if Kespa wants to steal a game from me I'll steal one from them.
Now were stuck with 3 good games instead of the possible 5.
I hope next time they meet in a BO5 nothing like this happens.
To be honest game 3 was the only intense one.
Game 1 JD made flash look like a D- iccup user.
Game 2 Flash made JD look like a D+ iccup user.
Lmfao @ sunken war.
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On January 26 2010 04:50 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 11:08 BanZu wrote:Sigh, this whole ordeal makes me sad. It doesn't even feel like a StarLeague Finals, it was more like some show put on by MBC. Just thinking about it gives me odd feelings. On January 24 2010 10:07 NeoOmega wrote:
In game 4 Flash 8 raxed and Jaedong 9 pooled. This is a sizable build order disadvantage, that will result in a Jaedong victory a majority of the time. And seeing how Fighting Spirit was the map Flash thumbed down, I believe both played had planned their build orders on that map. Maybe a totally focused Flash comes back from that, but if you ask me the result would be the same anyway. Who knows, you could be right, you could be wrong. If only we could get an interview with Flash... Statistically flash would not have cheesed. Because he doesn't cheese anymore. IMO The cheese was brought on by JD's greedy BO(good strat no credit taken away) and Flash's kid's mentality that if Kespa wants to steal a game from me I'll steal one from them.
Please. Do not insult Flash like that, he's not that fucking stupid
Now were stuck with 3 good games instead of the possible 5.
I hope next time they meet in a BO5 nothing like this happens.
To be honest game 3 was the only intense one.
Game 1 JD made flash look like a D- iccup user.
Game 2 Flash made JD look like a D+ iccup user.
Lmfao @ sunken war.
If you think he made JD look like a D+ iccup user, then sorry, you have no idea about starcraft.
Plus, he didnt even make him go for that strategy, it was JD who chose to do this sunken heavy style because of the layout of the map.
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On January 26 2010 04:50 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 11:08 BanZu wrote:Sigh, this whole ordeal makes me sad. It doesn't even feel like a StarLeague Finals, it was more like some show put on by MBC. Just thinking about it gives me odd feelings. On January 24 2010 10:07 NeoOmega wrote:
In game 4 Flash 8 raxed and Jaedong 9 pooled. This is a sizable build order disadvantage, that will result in a Jaedong victory a majority of the time. And seeing how Fighting Spirit was the map Flash thumbed down, I believe both played had planned their build orders on that map. Maybe a totally focused Flash comes back from that, but if you ask me the result would be the same anyway. Who knows, you could be right, you could be wrong. If only we could get an interview with Flash... Statistically flash would not have cheesed. Because he doesn't cheese anymore. IMO The cheese was brought on by JD's greedy BO(good strat no credit taken away) and Flash's kid's mentality that if Kespa wants to steal a game from me I'll steal one from them. Now were stuck with 3 good games instead of the possible 5. I hope next time they meet in a BO5 nothing like this happens. To be honest game 3 was the only intense one. Game 1 JD made flash look like a D- iccup user. Game 2 Flash made JD look like a D+ iccup user. Lmfao @ sunken war.
Congratulations, you're clueless.
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EPT
