• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:01
CEST 22:01
KST 05:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th153Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7625 users

Left vs Right Political Philosophy - Page 2

Blogs > Biochemist
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32147 Posts
January 12 2010 14:39 GMT
#21
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
January 12 2010 15:07 GMT
#22
On January 12 2010 06:55 Jibba wrote:
There's a few interesting tidbits in Lies, but you're right about the bias. You shouldn't expect to find good historical material off the NY Times best seller list, especially when they have bright and flashy covers, and there's no way a single book can convey all the nuances or context of that span of history.

Even in more specific cases, you need to realize that the author can frame subject matter however they'd like, or more likely they're innately biased because of their upbringing/social background/etc. This is why historiography exists.

As an example, there's American history from the perspectives of white males, women, black people, immigrants, etc. and none of them are necessarily wrong - they just influence different aspects and see different causes/effects because of this. Furthermore, within each group, historians may influence aspects like politics/economics/culture. Sorry, but looking for an absolute truth is fruitless.

What are you specifically looking for? Here's the syllabus from one of David Blight's American History classes at Yale. His research focus is the Civil War, but he's one of the top American History professors in the country.

+ Show Spoiler +
Bailyn, Bernard. The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution (1992).
* Bellion, Wendy. “‘Extend the Sphere’: Charles Willson Peale’s Panorama of Annapolis.” Art Bulletin (September 2004):
529-549.
Cott, Nancy. The Bonds of Womanhood: “Woman’s Sphere” in New England, 1780-1835 (1977).
*Fliegelman, Jay. Declaring Independence: Jefferson, Natural Language, and the Culture of Performance (1993).
Breen, T.H. The Marketplace of Revolution: How Consumer Politics Shaped American Independence (2004).
Ferguson, Robert. The American Enlightenment, 1750–1820 (1997).
Freeman, Joanne. Affairs of Honor: National Politics in the New Republic (2001).
*Looby, Christopher, “The Constitution of Nature: Taxonomy as Politics in Jefferson, Peale, and Bartram,” Early American
Literature 22 (December 1987), 252-273.
Nash, Gary. The Unknown American Revolution: The Unruly Birth of Democracy and the Struggle to Create America
(2005).
Kerber, Linda. Women of the Republic: Intellect and Ideology in Revolutionary America (1997).
Maier, Pauline. American Scripture: Making the Declaration of Independence (1997).
*Rigal, Laura. “Peale’s Mammoth,” in. American Iconology, David Miller, ed. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1993.
Taylor, Alan. William Cooper's Town: Power and Persuasion on the Frontier of the Early American Republic (1996).
Wood, Gordon. The Radicalism of the American Revolution (1993).
REFORM, DEMOCRACY, AND THE MARKETPLACE IN JACKSONIAN AMERICA
Abzug, Robert H. Cosmos Crumbling: American Reform and the Religious Imagination (1994).
*Casper, Scott, “Politics, Art and the Contradictions of a Market Culture: George Caleb Bingham’s Stump Speaking,”
American Art 5 (Summer 1991): 27-47.
Clark, Christopher. The Roots of Rural Capitalism: Western Massachusetts, 1789-1890 (1990).
Feller, Daniel. The Jacksonian Promise: America, 1815-1840 (1995).
James and Lois Horton. In Hope of Liberty: Culture, Community, and Protest among Northern Free Blacks, 1700-1860
(1997).
Howe, Daniel Walker The Political Culture of the American Whigs (1979).
Prophets of Protest: Reconsidering the History of American Abolitionism, Timothy McCarthy and John Stauffer, eds.
(2006).
*Miller, Angela. The Empire of the Eye: Landscape Representation and American Cultural Politics, 1825-1875. Ithaca:
Cornell University Press (1993).
Sellers, Charles G. The Market Revolution: Jacksonian America, 1815-1848 (1991).
Watson, Harry L. Liberty and Power: The Politics of Jacksonian America (1990).
Wilentz, Sean R. Chants Democratic: NYC and the Rise of the American Working Class, 1788-1850 (1984).
________. The Rise of American Democracy: Jefferson to Lincoln (2005).
THE OLD SOUTH, SLAVERY, AND THE RISE OF SECTIONALISM
Berlin, Ira. Generations of Captivity: a History of African-American Slaves (2003).
Blassingame, John. The Slave Community: Plantation Life in the Antebellum South (1979).
Clarke, Erskine. Dwelling Place: A Plantation Epic. (2005).
avis, John. “Eastman Johnson’s Negro Life at the South,” Art Bulletin (March 1998): 67-92.
Johnson, Walter. Soul by Soul: Life inside the Antebellum Slave Market (2001).
Fehrenbacher, Don. The Slaveholding Republic: An Account of the United States Government's Relations to Slavery (2001).
Foner, Eric. Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men: The Ideology of the Republican Party before the Civil War (1970).
Genovese, Eugene. Roll, Jordan, Roll: The World the Slaves Made (1976).
Kolchin, Peter. American Slavery 1619-1877 (1993)
McCurry, Stephanie. Masters of Small Worlds: Yeoman Households, Gender Relations, and the Political Culture of the
Antebellum South Carolina Low Country (1995).
Potter, David M.. The Impending Crisis, 1848-1861 (1977).
Sewell, Richard. Ballots for Freedom: Antislavery Politics in the United States (1976).
* Wood, Marcus. Blind Memory: Visual Representations of Slavery in England and America, 1780-1865 (2000).
CIVIL WAR, MEMORY, AND RECONSTRUCTION
Ayers, Edward. “Worrying about the Civil War” and “What Caused the Civil War?” in What Caused the Civil War?
Reflections on the South and Southern History, Edward Ayers, ed. (2005).
___________. In the Presence of Mine Enemies: War in the Heart of America, 1859-1863 (2003).
Blight, David W.. Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory (2001).
Brundage, W. Fitzhugh. The Southern Past: A Clash of Race and Memory (2006).
Dew, Charles B. Apostles of Disunion: Southern Secession Commissioners and the Causes of the Civil War (2001).
Faust, Drew Gilpin. This Republic of Suffering: Death and the American Civil War (2008).
______________. Mothers of Invention: Women of the Slaveholding South in the American Civil War (1996).
Foner, Eric. Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution (1988).
Frederickson, George M.. The Inner Civil War: Northern Intellectuals and the Crisis of the Union (1965).
Hahn, Steven. A Nation under Our Feet: Black Political Struggle in the Rural South from Slavery to the Great Migration
(2003).
McPherson, James. Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (1988).
Richardson, Heather Cox. West from Appomattox: the Reconstruction of America After the Civil War (2007).
Savage, Kirk. Standing Soldiers, Kneeling Slaves: Race, War, and Monument in 19th Century America (1997).
Stampp, Kenneth. The Imperiled Union: Essays on the Background of the Civil War (1980).

This stuff is probably long, difficult and maybe uninteresting unless you have someone (professor) to guide you through it. To get a good handle on history, you need to actually study it. Don't expect that you can get a good understanding of it just by reading a few books; you wouldn't expect that with economics, chemistry or physics, and social sciences are the same.

If you want a single collection, you're only going to get the juicy, extremely biased stuff like Zinn and so on. Still a very important read, but like Hawk said, take it with a grain of salt.


Unfortunately I just really don't have the time to spend that such a study would require. It's pretty rare that you find a book where you don't get the impression that the author simply ignores evidences that don't support his point, rather than trying to explain everything, not being afraid to point out and admit where things just add up. That's not the behavior that we learn in the "hard" sciences.
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 15:29:46
January 12 2010 15:26 GMT
#23
On January 12 2010 23:39 Hawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.

The line was pretty skewed between parties with regards to pro-slavery stances. For instance in Lincoln's first inaugural address he praised slavery! Not to mention that Lincoln was a big supporter of this ole amendment that didn't quite get ratified (As seen in the letter from Lincoln to all state governors to support the amendment below(I think the only surviving copy of one of the letters is the letter to the governor of Florida)).

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Doc. No. 106-214)

The democrats were mostly just anti-war (and pro states rights...) during the American Civil War or as me and my peers like to call it 'The war for Southern independence' (hehe makes me look like a crank racist doesn't it?). It's all so terrible methinks. They could have freed the slaves in a much better way such as what Britain did (buying them off of slave owners). Instead 400,000 lives were lost and bitter southern sentiments were created which helped lead many peeps in the south to such a ridiculous culture of racism. I like to blame the imperfect US constitution for slavery~~ damn document~~! damn founders!!
아나코자본주의
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 15:36:45
January 12 2010 15:29 GMT
#24
On January 12 2010 07:39 jalstar wrote:
first book has a conservative bias (obvious from the cover)

second book has a liberal bias (not so obvious, but look up reviews)

.

Funny how you say that considering that the author is a Libertarian.
아나코자본주의
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32147 Posts
January 12 2010 15:42 GMT
#25
On January 13 2010 00:26 ShroomyD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 23:39 Hawk wrote:
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.

The line was pretty skewed between parties with regards to pro-slavery stances. For instance in Lincoln's first inaugural address he praised slavery! Not to mention that Lincoln was a big supporter of this ole amendment that didn't quite get ratified (As seen in the letter from Lincoln to all state governors to support the amendment below(I think the only surviving copy of one of the letters is the letter to the governor of Florida)).

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Doc. No. 106-214)

The democrats were mostly just anti-war (and pro states rights...) during the American Civil War or as me and my peers like to call it 'The war for Southern independence' (hehe makes me look like a crank racist doesn't it?). It's all so terrible methinks. They could have freed the slaves in a much better way such as what Britain did (buying them off of slave owners). Instead 400,000 lives were lost and bitter southern sentiments were created which helped lead many peeps in the south to such a ridiculous culture of racism. I like to blame the imperfect US constitution for slavery~~ damn document~~! damn founders!!


Yeah, you seem to know it better than I do, but it's just still pretty funny how much they've changed. Slavery doesn't seem to jive well with the whole ultra left thing that a lot of Dems have these days haha. Weren't the Dems the warhawks for WWII era?

It's just funny, because if a person only had knowledge of American politics from 2000-2010 and had no historical context at all, most people wouldn't guess that
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 1
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O258
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague wk 2 PTB vs POG
Liquipedia
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
RotterdaM458
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 882
JuggernautJason58
BRAT_OK 56
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 258
Hyun 52
Rock 41
Dewaltoss 17
Dota 2
Dendi1663
monkeys_forever342
League of Legends
Doublelift883
Counter-Strike
fl0m8841
Coldzera 931
byalli796
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu339
Other Games
gofns26423
Grubby3553
summit1g2536
Mlord913
RotterdaM458
crisheroes270
ArmadaUGS115
KnowMe106
Trikslyr43
Tefel19
MindelVK8
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1267
gamesdonequick797
BasetradeTV184
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 20
• mYiSmile120
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur103
• tFFMrPink 2
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 59m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 59m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
22h 59m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
1d 14h
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
OSC
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.