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Left vs Right Political Philosophy - Page 2

Blogs > Biochemist
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QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32083 Posts
January 12 2010 14:39 GMT
#21
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.
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Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
January 12 2010 15:07 GMT
#22
On January 12 2010 06:55 Jibba wrote:
There's a few interesting tidbits in Lies, but you're right about the bias. You shouldn't expect to find good historical material off the NY Times best seller list, especially when they have bright and flashy covers, and there's no way a single book can convey all the nuances or context of that span of history.

Even in more specific cases, you need to realize that the author can frame subject matter however they'd like, or more likely they're innately biased because of their upbringing/social background/etc. This is why historiography exists.

As an example, there's American history from the perspectives of white males, women, black people, immigrants, etc. and none of them are necessarily wrong - they just influence different aspects and see different causes/effects because of this. Furthermore, within each group, historians may influence aspects like politics/economics/culture. Sorry, but looking for an absolute truth is fruitless.

What are you specifically looking for? Here's the syllabus from one of David Blight's American History classes at Yale. His research focus is the Civil War, but he's one of the top American History professors in the country.

+ Show Spoiler +
Bailyn, Bernard. The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution (1992).
* Bellion, Wendy. “‘Extend the Sphere’: Charles Willson Peale’s Panorama of Annapolis.” Art Bulletin (September 2004):
529-549.
Cott, Nancy. The Bonds of Womanhood: “Woman’s Sphere” in New England, 1780-1835 (1977).
*Fliegelman, Jay. Declaring Independence: Jefferson, Natural Language, and the Culture of Performance (1993).
Breen, T.H. The Marketplace of Revolution: How Consumer Politics Shaped American Independence (2004).
Ferguson, Robert. The American Enlightenment, 1750–1820 (1997).
Freeman, Joanne. Affairs of Honor: National Politics in the New Republic (2001).
*Looby, Christopher, “The Constitution of Nature: Taxonomy as Politics in Jefferson, Peale, and Bartram,” Early American
Literature 22 (December 1987), 252-273.
Nash, Gary. The Unknown American Revolution: The Unruly Birth of Democracy and the Struggle to Create America
(2005).
Kerber, Linda. Women of the Republic: Intellect and Ideology in Revolutionary America (1997).
Maier, Pauline. American Scripture: Making the Declaration of Independence (1997).
*Rigal, Laura. “Peale’s Mammoth,” in. American Iconology, David Miller, ed. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1993.
Taylor, Alan. William Cooper's Town: Power and Persuasion on the Frontier of the Early American Republic (1996).
Wood, Gordon. The Radicalism of the American Revolution (1993).
REFORM, DEMOCRACY, AND THE MARKETPLACE IN JACKSONIAN AMERICA
Abzug, Robert H. Cosmos Crumbling: American Reform and the Religious Imagination (1994).
*Casper, Scott, “Politics, Art and the Contradictions of a Market Culture: George Caleb Bingham’s Stump Speaking,”
American Art 5 (Summer 1991): 27-47.
Clark, Christopher. The Roots of Rural Capitalism: Western Massachusetts, 1789-1890 (1990).
Feller, Daniel. The Jacksonian Promise: America, 1815-1840 (1995).
James and Lois Horton. In Hope of Liberty: Culture, Community, and Protest among Northern Free Blacks, 1700-1860
(1997).
Howe, Daniel Walker The Political Culture of the American Whigs (1979).
Prophets of Protest: Reconsidering the History of American Abolitionism, Timothy McCarthy and John Stauffer, eds.
(2006).
*Miller, Angela. The Empire of the Eye: Landscape Representation and American Cultural Politics, 1825-1875. Ithaca:
Cornell University Press (1993).
Sellers, Charles G. The Market Revolution: Jacksonian America, 1815-1848 (1991).
Watson, Harry L. Liberty and Power: The Politics of Jacksonian America (1990).
Wilentz, Sean R. Chants Democratic: NYC and the Rise of the American Working Class, 1788-1850 (1984).
________. The Rise of American Democracy: Jefferson to Lincoln (2005).
THE OLD SOUTH, SLAVERY, AND THE RISE OF SECTIONALISM
Berlin, Ira. Generations of Captivity: a History of African-American Slaves (2003).
Blassingame, John. The Slave Community: Plantation Life in the Antebellum South (1979).
Clarke, Erskine. Dwelling Place: A Plantation Epic. (2005).
avis, John. “Eastman Johnson’s Negro Life at the South,” Art Bulletin (March 1998): 67-92.
Johnson, Walter. Soul by Soul: Life inside the Antebellum Slave Market (2001).
Fehrenbacher, Don. The Slaveholding Republic: An Account of the United States Government's Relations to Slavery (2001).
Foner, Eric. Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men: The Ideology of the Republican Party before the Civil War (1970).
Genovese, Eugene. Roll, Jordan, Roll: The World the Slaves Made (1976).
Kolchin, Peter. American Slavery 1619-1877 (1993)
McCurry, Stephanie. Masters of Small Worlds: Yeoman Households, Gender Relations, and the Political Culture of the
Antebellum South Carolina Low Country (1995).
Potter, David M.. The Impending Crisis, 1848-1861 (1977).
Sewell, Richard. Ballots for Freedom: Antislavery Politics in the United States (1976).
* Wood, Marcus. Blind Memory: Visual Representations of Slavery in England and America, 1780-1865 (2000).
CIVIL WAR, MEMORY, AND RECONSTRUCTION
Ayers, Edward. “Worrying about the Civil War” and “What Caused the Civil War?” in What Caused the Civil War?
Reflections on the South and Southern History, Edward Ayers, ed. (2005).
___________. In the Presence of Mine Enemies: War in the Heart of America, 1859-1863 (2003).
Blight, David W.. Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory (2001).
Brundage, W. Fitzhugh. The Southern Past: A Clash of Race and Memory (2006).
Dew, Charles B. Apostles of Disunion: Southern Secession Commissioners and the Causes of the Civil War (2001).
Faust, Drew Gilpin. This Republic of Suffering: Death and the American Civil War (2008).
______________. Mothers of Invention: Women of the Slaveholding South in the American Civil War (1996).
Foner, Eric. Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution (1988).
Frederickson, George M.. The Inner Civil War: Northern Intellectuals and the Crisis of the Union (1965).
Hahn, Steven. A Nation under Our Feet: Black Political Struggle in the Rural South from Slavery to the Great Migration
(2003).
McPherson, James. Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (1988).
Richardson, Heather Cox. West from Appomattox: the Reconstruction of America After the Civil War (2007).
Savage, Kirk. Standing Soldiers, Kneeling Slaves: Race, War, and Monument in 19th Century America (1997).
Stampp, Kenneth. The Imperiled Union: Essays on the Background of the Civil War (1980).

This stuff is probably long, difficult and maybe uninteresting unless you have someone (professor) to guide you through it. To get a good handle on history, you need to actually study it. Don't expect that you can get a good understanding of it just by reading a few books; you wouldn't expect that with economics, chemistry or physics, and social sciences are the same.

If you want a single collection, you're only going to get the juicy, extremely biased stuff like Zinn and so on. Still a very important read, but like Hawk said, take it with a grain of salt.


Unfortunately I just really don't have the time to spend that such a study would require. It's pretty rare that you find a book where you don't get the impression that the author simply ignores evidences that don't support his point, rather than trying to explain everything, not being afraid to point out and admit where things just add up. That's not the behavior that we learn in the "hard" sciences.
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 15:29:46
January 12 2010 15:26 GMT
#23
On January 12 2010 23:39 Hawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.

The line was pretty skewed between parties with regards to pro-slavery stances. For instance in Lincoln's first inaugural address he praised slavery! Not to mention that Lincoln was a big supporter of this ole amendment that didn't quite get ratified (As seen in the letter from Lincoln to all state governors to support the amendment below(I think the only surviving copy of one of the letters is the letter to the governor of Florida)).

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Doc. No. 106-214)

The democrats were mostly just anti-war (and pro states rights...) during the American Civil War or as me and my peers like to call it 'The war for Southern independence' (hehe makes me look like a crank racist doesn't it?). It's all so terrible methinks. They could have freed the slaves in a much better way such as what Britain did (buying them off of slave owners). Instead 400,000 lives were lost and bitter southern sentiments were created which helped lead many peeps in the south to such a ridiculous culture of racism. I like to blame the imperfect US constitution for slavery~~ damn document~~! damn founders!!
아나코자본주의
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 15:36:45
January 12 2010 15:29 GMT
#24
On January 12 2010 07:39 jalstar wrote:
first book has a conservative bias (obvious from the cover)

second book has a liberal bias (not so obvious, but look up reviews)

.

Funny how you say that considering that the author is a Libertarian.
아나코자본주의
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32083 Posts
January 12 2010 15:42 GMT
#25
On January 13 2010 00:26 ShroomyD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 23:39 Hawk wrote:
On January 12 2010 09:05 ghostWriter wrote:
The definitions for liberal and conservative have changed dramatically since the time of the Revolutionary War. iirc, I think they meant the exact opposite of what they mean right now. I could be wrong though.


They've changed, but you're probably thinking more along the lines of the values of the Democrats and the Republicans. Jibba would know more than I would, but for instance, I'm pretty sure that republicans were for abolishment and the Dems were pro-slavery in the Civil War era.

The line was pretty skewed between parties with regards to pro-slavery stances. For instance in Lincoln's first inaugural address he praised slavery! Not to mention that Lincoln was a big supporter of this ole amendment that didn't quite get ratified (As seen in the letter from Lincoln to all state governors to support the amendment below(I think the only surviving copy of one of the letters is the letter to the governor of Florida)).

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Doc. No. 106-214)

The democrats were mostly just anti-war (and pro states rights...) during the American Civil War or as me and my peers like to call it 'The war for Southern independence' (hehe makes me look like a crank racist doesn't it?). It's all so terrible methinks. They could have freed the slaves in a much better way such as what Britain did (buying them off of slave owners). Instead 400,000 lives were lost and bitter southern sentiments were created which helped lead many peeps in the south to such a ridiculous culture of racism. I like to blame the imperfect US constitution for slavery~~ damn document~~! damn founders!!


Yeah, you seem to know it better than I do, but it's just still pretty funny how much they've changed. Slavery doesn't seem to jive well with the whole ultra left thing that a lot of Dems have these days haha. Weren't the Dems the warhawks for WWII era?

It's just funny, because if a person only had knowledge of American politics from 2000-2010 and had no historical context at all, most people wouldn't guess that
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