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Whats worse? Last week i had an interesting debate session in my TOK class (Yay ib...). The teacher(whos a retired prof) came up with a question on the board and asked for input from his students. The question was.."What is a bigger sin, to lie or to bullshit?" (I cant remember if the word was sin but it was something along the lines of that).
Immediately I began to think about the definitions of these two words.
Lie: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
–noun
Bullshit: nonsense, lies, or exaggeration.
In many ways these words could be used in the same context but they have a very distinct difference in the sense that for lying you must know the truth to lie. You intentionally hide the lie even after knowing the truth for whatever reason. Bullshitting on the other hand is a more exaggeration of something or telling something that you actually have no idea of.
Judging from these definitions one can easily say that lying is a bigger sin because you must KNOW the truth before lying but bullshitting you do not.
But on the other hand somebody retorted saying "no matter how severe one is to the other, the bottom line is is that these two things are equal in punishment because they both confine the truth from being revealed which is the ultimate sin".
There are alot of intelligent TL-Netters so I was just wondering what you guys had to think about.
P.S. If there are any current IB diploma students or graduates and you can recall an interesting TOK discussion please share!
 
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Neither is wrong. Lying/Bullshitting could be considered "wrong" if the consequences of the said dishonesty are negative (for example, lying to get away with stealing)
it depends on the context and neither of those things are inherently bad.
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Since BS is something every student does, all students need to say lies since otherwise they would actually have to spend time putting content into every sentence of a paper rather than more like 1/3.
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I would probably say that they are equally sinful, but bullshitting is somewhat more accepted, since students especially do it on a regular basis and sometimes are even encouraged to do it. Regardless of societal influences, disguising the truth in any manor is equally sinful.
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tok was a dumb experience for me
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Wow, I also had TOK IB too (in Edmonton)! Bullshitting is worse than lying because bullshitting is nonsense and exaggeration + lying.
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If I answer seriously I think the motive of the people lying/bullshitting is the more important than whether he lies or bullshits because definition of "sin" have moral connotation. Even if one's lie or bullshit leads to severe negative consequence for another, as long as one had moral reason to believe he/she needed to lie&bullshit, it would be less sinful than lying/bullshitting that does no harm but spoken with malicious intent.
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On November 30 2009 10:36 meeple wrote:
I would probably say that they are equally sinful, but bullshitting is somewhat more accepted, since students especially do it on a regular basis and sometimes are even encouraged to do it. Regardless of societal influences, disguising the truth in any manor is equally sinful.
hahaha i know what u mean.
But aside from the "student cases" where we bullshit our papers what about if we applied bullshitting and lying in the real world? Wouldn't lying get you in shit faster than bullshitting? Or maybe..i dk : )
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On November 30 2009 10:36 blue_arrow wrote:
tok was a dumb experience for me
Yeah after getting alot of insight in IB Forums ( like ib survival) how great TOK is going to be for you is solely dependant on what kind of teacher you get. My teacher is probably the smartest english /tok teacher i've met in my life.
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yeah.. well for my school, TOK and world history was integrated together, and though the teacher was really good, she basically told us that TOK was kind of worthless, gave us a bunch of essay topics that IB markers would like, and told us not to fuck up on the essays lmao
basically nobody took TOK seriously
everyone still did fairly decent on their essays though... i think i got a 'good' or something like that.
either way i got my bonus diploma point so meh
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Like pretty much everything else, depends on the context.
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On November 30 2009 10:45 blue_arrow wrote:
yeah.. well for my school, TOK and world history was integrated together, and though the teacher was really good, she basically told us that TOK was kind of worthless, gave us a bunch of essay topics that IB markers would like, and told us not to fuck up on the essays lmao
basically nobody took TOK seriously
everyone still did fairly decent on their essays though... i think i got a 'good' or something like that.
either way i got my bonus diploma point so meh
oh wow.... hahaha at our school TOK is for two years every other day..everybody at some point gets to love it or they just drop IB altogether hahaha. Bunch on the serious side TOK is what separates us IB students from the rest of the 'normal' or 'NIBS (not ibs) at our school hahaha. Because TOK opens up our brains and the world that we live in is percieved way differently after the course is done.
personally TOK is my fav course because of discussions like this heh.
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ToK was without a doubt the greatest waste of time during IB, for me. The class discussions are almost irrelevant for your grade, so the amount of caring is pretty limited.
It could be due to how redundant our teacher was.
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last year in IB i fucking hate it, most of the tests and quizzes are written only exams you can bullshit your way through most of the year.
The end of the year exams are written answers only as well, so you can bullshit your way in there too.
Not to mention all of the useless homework that requires bullshitting.
Bullshit bullshit bullshit that is all IB really is....
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Canada5565 Posts
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
wow i didnt know there were so many IB students on TL!!! OMGOMGOMGOMG
TOK WAS SUCH A PIECE OF BS ROFL
so glad im finished with IB
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Baa?21244 Posts
Slightly off topic, but I want to throw in that IB is so fucking worthless the way they did it at my school. The classes were completely watered down and retarded. I heard good things about IB as a whole in other places, but wow at my school it was so retarded. I ended up not doing the IB Diploma but still took the classes (meant no TOK + EE + CAS + paying thousands for wortless tests, woot), but yeah, totally stupid.
Carry on now 
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lol thread quickly derailed into group shitting on ib session.
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I have no idea what is going on in this thread. What is TOK and IB?
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On November 30 2009 11:49 sixghost wrote:
I have no idea what is going on in this thread. What is TOK and IB? IB is a program in place of your final two years of high school / A level that focuses heavily on project work and 'well-roundedness'. It requires students to take subjects from a variety of categories.
ToK is Theory of Knowledge, which is a class that has no real impact on your grade (only a submitted essay for a chance at a bonus point or two), and consists of high-schoolers attempting to debate for several hours per week.
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On November 30 2009 11:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:
Tok = Lying
IB= Bullshit
This is wisdom.
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Dumb question. Slap your professor.
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On November 30 2009 11:56 Dfgj wrote:This is wisdom.
that is justified true belief. ^^
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On November 30 2009 11:56 Dfgj wrote:This is wisdom.
This is the truth.
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"IB, Therefore I Bullshit."
I lived by that through my 3 years, and it worked.
But on a serious note, i think the IB at my school was relatively well done for the most part; the coordinator (who was the world history teacher and also an examiner) was pretty chill and that helped out alot. science and math teachers were pretty good too i guess. except my bio teacher, he was a fucking nazi; he had us writing like 20-30 page lab reports every couple weeks and thats like 5x more work than what your average first year biosci uni courses get you to do. not to mention a shitload of other unneccessary work... for one project we had to compile this 300 page report about some stupid hill. christ, those were the days...
if it werent for my bio teacher i'd prbly be majoring in biosci right now, but he just scared the piss out of me with all his stupid assignments and now i'm doing business ^^
uni right now is preeety slack for me; it's less hard work than what IB was giving me anyways. at least i can say that IB is helping so far with the material covered in first-year uni courses. i can also now retrieve my social life from the dirt... that was another terrible thing about IB, you didn't get to meet anyone outside your IB classes.
ugh.. but G4 projects, cas, ee, tok, wl all that bullshit, i would never take the full diploma ib again if i had a second chance; partial ib at the very most
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my cow is dead
i have no need for your bull
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I wrote my Extended Essay about Mao ZeDong in 2 hours.
I'm very good at bullshitting aren't I.
But seriously, I did. And I got A (31) on it.
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I think lying and bullshitting are just two ways to call a same thing.
Both mean not telling the truth. The only difference is, though, lying tends to sound more serious.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On November 30 2009 13:17 blue_arrow wrote:
"IB, Therefore I Bullshit."
IB ∴IBS
On November 30 2009 12:48 haster27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 11:56 Dfgj wrote:On November 30 2009 11:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:
Tok = Lying
IB= Bullshit This is wisdom. This is the truth.
Amen.
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On November 30 2009 14:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:IB ∴IBS Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 12:48 haster27 wrote:On November 30 2009 11:56 Dfgj wrote:On November 30 2009 11:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:
Tok = Lying
IB= Bullshit This is wisdom. This is the truth. Amen.
Statement is invalid because there is only one premise 
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There is no desk.
Or is the desk really there?
Edit: Goddamnit no amount of theory of knowledge will make the desk just not there. For fuck sake the desk is there.
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On November 30 2009 15:47 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:
There is no desk.
Or is the desk really there?
Edit: Goddamnit no amount of theory of knowledge will make the desk just not there. For fuck sake the desk is there.
hahaahaha yeah i guess tok just gets boring and frusterating after a while .. T_T
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On November 30 2009 13:17 blue_arrow wrote:
uni right now is preeety slack for me; it's less hard work than what IB was giving me anyways. at least i can say that IB is helping so far with the material covered in first-year uni courses. i can also now retrieve my social life from the dirt... that was another terrible thing about IB, you didn't get to meet anyone outside your IB classes.
ugh.. but G4 projects, cas, ee, tok, wl all that bullshit, i would never take the full diploma ib again if i had a second chance; partial ib at the very most
Really? That sucks, IB at our school was relatively slack. I had a lot of free time.
Depends heavily on what your teachers want to make you do to 'prepare' you for the exams, I guess.
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Wow, so many IB students...
I'm curious, OP, what school did you take IB at? I've experienced aspects of the program at many places in Toronto and it seems to really differ from school to school.
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EPT
