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On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier.
Now that is just wrong.
Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality.
The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate.
You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple.
What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time?
Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know.
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Lol @ it's easier being a woman than being a man. Seriously?
May make an argument if she's incredibly good looking, but even then, there's huge plus and minuses.
And wtf with foucault being right. Hmm... or am I confusing you with someone else. I'm getting senile.
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On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know.
It would be kind of you if you could define exactly what you mean by "true equality" in this case. I'm just curious, so don't take it as a "i don't trust you" 
It's just that whenever I hear people discuss equality between genders, they usually come to a certain limit where they think it's starting to get ridiculous. Equal payment? Sure, why not. Same requirements for a job? Of course. Males breastfeeding their babies? A bit over the line. (I actually saw it in some newspaper the other day, some guy using machines to try and grow breasts. He was hailed by quite a few feminists, according to the journalist, since it would apparently "help equality". How, I don't know, but completely erasing the lines between what is male and female, is just horrifying)
The only real problem with the lack of equality nowadays is about jobs positions and payment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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[QUOTE]On October 25 2009 00:21 madnessman wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 24 2009 23:48 PokePill wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 24 2009 21:20 niteReloaded wrote:
you all know about this 'controversy' feminists are often rubbin in people's faces.
The one that says it's discriminating to call a promiscuous male a stud (which is a compliment), while if the same person were female, she'd be called a slut, which is a bad word.
This morning in half-sleep just before waking up, this topic crossed my mind and I immediately gave an answer to it.
"Coz the slut is probly pregnant."
It's easy to understand why calling someone a stud is a compliment, and the reason for that is that the term alpha-male is very known these days. So people can draw parallels easily. The alpha male is the best male in the herd, so all females want his semen for best possible genetic combination.
But I didn't realize why 'slut' would be a bad, unappealing thing.
Well, it's because if you've witnessed a female getting phyisical with another male, she's probably gonna carry his baby and she's not worth your time. In evolution terms.
One other thing.
Why do women constantly throw little tests at men?
Again, to determine if he's alpha.
The top dog won't look over his shoulder, he will be confident, coz he knows he's superior to all other males out there.
However, we all watched documentaries where we could see a young male dethroning an alpha male (who's perhaps getting old). The old alpha get's insecure and the switch happens, all females go to the new alpha.
So, imo, all this testing it just to keep "up to date", it connects directly to each mans internal indicator of status among other men.[/QUOTE]
Because men have to work to get laid, a woman doesn't.[/QUOTE]
This cleared everything up for me. Thanks!
I never thought about it like this, but now that you bring it up, it's pretty true.
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On October 25 2009 01:41 Captain Mayhem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know. It would be kind of you if you could define exactly what you mean by "true equality" in this case. I'm just curious, so don't take it as a "i don't trust you" It's just that whenever I hear people discuss equality between genders, they usually come to a certain limit where they think it's starting to get ridiculous. Equal payment? Sure, why not. Same requirements for a job? Of course. Males breastfeeding their babies? A bit over the line. (I actually saw it in some newspaper the other day, some guy using machines to try and grow breasts. He was hailed by quite a few feminists, according to the journalist, since it would apparently "help equality". How, I don't know, but completely erasing the lines between what is male and female, is just horrifying) The only real problem with the lack of equality nowadays is about jobs positions and payment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yep, it's very hard to define what equality is and if you want to do it, you will have to think where you stand regarding biological and sociological explanations for gender. Some people believe that there is almost no biological gender to how men and women behave, but it's rather gender-roles that have been used and refined through thousands of years. Of course our bodies are different and what not but the actual difference in how men and women "are" has alot to do with how we are being raised. We are molded into men and women through socialization, where society tells us what we can do and say in line with our designated gender roles.
I think men and women are different in many biological aspects, some which also carry over to behavior but the majority of characteristics for behavior stem from gender roles, and personal differences not having anything to do with biological gender.
Oh and wages and employment is just the tip of the iceberg, the concrete symptoms of a patriarchy that is still very much in effect. Sweden has come quite far in terms of equality, but gender roles still dictate to a large degree how men and women interact with eachother and within in the same gender.
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On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol
No it is not. Feminism is often about women having more rights then men.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
On October 24 2009 22:30 lazz wrote:
in this blog the op points out the obvious
edit: fuck I love being a man. sure it's a little harder than being a girl, but you just have so much more potential. fuck yeah
Raising kids spending all the time with them is damn hard, even if enjoyable. However current social norms and morals in many countries enforce men to do that as well. Men and women are far different and far from being equal in instincts, needs for happiness and satisfaction, some people are forgetting that, this situation with studs and sluts is just one of many things.
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On October 25 2009 01:53 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol No it is not. Feminism is often about women having more rights then men.
Most definately not, that's such a weird idea. Why do you think that?
Oh yeah these evil women want to smash men. And what, live with other women only? Nah
"The term Feminism can be used to describe an academic discourse, or to describe a political, cultural or economic movement aimed at establishing more rights and legal protection for women."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
One thing that's iffy about the internet is, I have no idea if you're 25 or 14.
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On October 24 2009 23:48 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 21:20 niteReloaded wrote:
you all know about this 'controversy' feminists are often rubbin in people's faces.
The one that says it's discriminating to call a promiscuous male a stud (which is a compliment), while if the same person were female, she'd be called a slut, which is a bad word.
This morning in half-sleep just before waking up, this topic crossed my mind and I immediately gave an answer to it.
"Coz the slut is probly pregnant."
It's easy to understand why calling someone a stud is a compliment, and the reason for that is that the term alpha-male is very known these days. So people can draw parallels easily. The alpha male is the best male in the herd, so all females want his semen for best possible genetic combination.
But I didn't realize why 'slut' would be a bad, unappealing thing.
Well, it's because if you've witnessed a female getting phyisical with another male, she's probably gonna carry his baby and she's not worth your time. In evolution terms.
One other thing.
Why do women constantly throw little tests at men?
Again, to determine if he's alpha.
The top dog won't look over his shoulder, he will be confident, coz he knows he's superior to all other males out there.
However, we all watched documentaries where we could see a young male dethroning an alpha male (who's perhaps getting old). The old alpha get's insecure and the switch happens, all females go to the new alpha.
So, imo, all this testing it just to keep "up to date", it connects directly to each mans internal indicator of status among other men. Because men have to work to get laid, a woman doesn't.
At first I was gonna bring up all the celebrity men who don't have to work to get laid, but then I realized that they had to work or be lucky to get where they're at to get laid so easily. Damn, I can't find anything wrong with your theory.
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That explains why male sluts are seen as studs but not why it's viewed at in a negative light for women.
I think nitereloaded has the right idea. Back in the day (maybe even today), men didn't like their women sleeping around while women never had much say in the matter so there isn't as much of a stigma.
I guess you could tie that into the evolution bit where a man doesn't like the idea that his woman could be carrying another man's child.
Meh, speaking out of my ass here but it sounds good.
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You can go on and sleep with as many men as you want, you have the right to.
And I have the right to call you a slut, because you are, evolutionarily speaking, and unwanted woman.
Women are supposed to have standards, unlike men. So if you don't have them, there's something wrong about you. For this disorder, the word is currently - a slut.
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United States24761 Posts
On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know.
I thought it was clear what I meant but apparently you misunderstood me. My problem is not with feminism, in theory. My problem is with a good percentage of feminists who I have observed. I must admit this is an opinion, but I don't think many people share it with me simply because they have desires for inequality.
Many feminists want it 'both ways' and are not fighting for equality at all. As I admitted, some are fighting for their cause correctly and seek equality and I salute them... they just aren't loud and obnoxious enough to get my attention usually.
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On October 25 2009 01:49 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2009 01:41 Captain Mayhem wrote:On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know. It would be kind of you if you could define exactly what you mean by "true equality" in this case. I'm just curious, so don't take it as a "i don't trust you" It's just that whenever I hear people discuss equality between genders, they usually come to a certain limit where they think it's starting to get ridiculous. Equal payment? Sure, why not. Same requirements for a job? Of course. Males breastfeeding their babies? A bit over the line. (I actually saw it in some newspaper the other day, some guy using machines to try and grow breasts. He was hailed by quite a few feminists, according to the journalist, since it would apparently "help equality". How, I don't know, but completely erasing the lines between what is male and female, is just horrifying) The only real problem with the lack of equality nowadays is about jobs positions and payment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yep, it's very hard to define what equality is and if you want to do it, you will have to think where you stand regarding biological and sociological explanations for gender. Some people believe that there is almost no biological gender to how men and women behave, but it's rather gender-roles that have been used and refined through thousands of years. Of course our bodies are different and what not but the actual difference in how men and women "are" has alot to do with how we are being raised. We are molded into men and women through socialization, where society tells us what we can do and say in line with our designated gender roles. I think men and women are different in many biological aspects, some which also carry over to behavior but the majority of characteristics for behavior stem from gender roles, and personal differences not having anything to do with biological gender. Oh and wages and employment is just the tip of the iceberg, the concrete symptoms of a patriarchy that is still very much in effect. Sweden has come quite far in terms of equality, but gender roles still dictate to a large degree how men and women interact with eachother and within in the same gender.
Agree on every point. Our instincts might be in the way of trying to raise children into equality. I mean, in the early years of school, boys and girls automatically separate into two groups, and later in puberty you have a ton of hormones, estrogen and whatnot kicking in, so it's going to be impossibly hard to stop ALL the social differences with these unstoppable biological things happening.
(Also, it is my belief that the brains between genders function in different ways too. I can't prove it, so I'll just put it in parenthesis. Anyway, I believe males have a higher capability of logical thinking, while females have a higher capability for empathy. Might affect behavior as well to various degrees.)
However breaking the ancient "tradition" of males being the workers and females nursing the children is going to be a bit easier. It's well on the way at least, and pretty impressive seeing that it has been that way ever since we started walking on two legs. Easier, because the need for it disappeared with the arrival of civilization, and we're pretty much just going on with it out of old habit so to say.
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On October 24 2009 23:49 VorcePA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2009 22:30 lazz wrote:
in this blog the op points out the obvious
edit: fuck I love being a man. sure it's a little harder than being a girl, but you just have so much more potential. fuck yeah It's a little harder than being a girl? = Girls: - Have a period - Have to worry about pregnancy - Are more susceptible to STDs - Are still archaically viewed as a "slut" if they're promiscuous like a man - Are paid, on average, 40% less than a man is for doing the same job worldwide
What? I don't consider promiscuous women sluts; I'd consider them insightful. Speak for yourself.
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On October 25 2009 02:53 Captain Mayhem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2009 01:49 Foucault wrote:On October 25 2009 01:41 Captain Mayhem wrote:On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know. It would be kind of you if you could define exactly what you mean by "true equality" in this case. I'm just curious, so don't take it as a "i don't trust you" It's just that whenever I hear people discuss equality between genders, they usually come to a certain limit where they think it's starting to get ridiculous. Equal payment? Sure, why not. Same requirements for a job? Of course. Males breastfeeding their babies? A bit over the line. (I actually saw it in some newspaper the other day, some guy using machines to try and grow breasts. He was hailed by quite a few feminists, according to the journalist, since it would apparently "help equality". How, I don't know, but completely erasing the lines between what is male and female, is just horrifying) The only real problem with the lack of equality nowadays is about jobs positions and payment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yep, it's very hard to define what equality is and if you want to do it, you will have to think where you stand regarding biological and sociological explanations for gender. Some people believe that there is almost no biological gender to how men and women behave, but it's rather gender-roles that have been used and refined through thousands of years. Of course our bodies are different and what not but the actual difference in how men and women "are" has alot to do with how we are being raised. We are molded into men and women through socialization, where society tells us what we can do and say in line with our designated gender roles. I think men and women are different in many biological aspects, some which also carry over to behavior but the majority of characteristics for behavior stem from gender roles, and personal differences not having anything to do with biological gender. Oh and wages and employment is just the tip of the iceberg, the concrete symptoms of a patriarchy that is still very much in effect. Sweden has come quite far in terms of equality, but gender roles still dictate to a large degree how men and women interact with eachother and within in the same gender. Agree on every point. Our instincts might be in the way of trying to raise children into equality. I mean, in the early years of school, boys and girls automatically separate into two groups, and later in puberty you have a ton of hormones, estrogen and whatnot kicking in, so it's going to be impossibly hard to stop ALL the social differences with these unstoppable biological things happening. (Also, it is my belief that the brains between genders function in different ways too. I can't prove it, so I'll just put it in parenthesis. Anyway, I believe males have a higher capability of logical thinking, while females have a higher capability for empathy. Might affect behavior as well to various degrees.)However breaking the ancient "tradition" of males being the workers and females nursing the children is going to be a bit easier. It's well on the way at least, and pretty impressive seeing that it has been that way ever since we started walking on two legs. Easier, because the need for it disappeared with the arrival of civilization, and we're pretty much just going on with it out of old habit so to say.
Yeah basically it's very hard to say what's what. What's biology and what's defined gender roles?
About brains being different I think this is huge fallacy and I don't believe it for one bit. I mean, brains function differently between individuals too, someone can't metabolize certain vitamines as well as someone else and one person might have higher levels of catecholamines in the brain, while another person is naturally "calm" (as in less stress-hormones).
This is kind of a trap too, because we know brains function differently between individuals and the entire reason that we even consider thinking that womens brains are better at emotions than ours is to reinvent the notion that women aren't logical. Logic = better alot of the times according to the male norm, thus this idea just states over again that women are inferior. Do you follow?
I think the "difference" you are talking about is almost 100% about gender roles. Women aren't encouraged to be logical and intelligent in the same way that men are. And men are supposed to be "badass" "tough" and whatever adjectives there are to describe the male persona. This is imo a huge social construct; gender roles. They were practical centuries ago(which doesn't make them more moral or better) but aren't really needed today.
Yeah, I think it's ridiculous how the human species still hold on to alot of old prejudice. We are truly blind and awkward in many areas, especially with women's role in society today and historically. We need to step into the 21:th century. Women make up 50% of the earths population, word.
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I always thought that the reason was the guy is giving sex were in most cases the girl is receiving sex, pretty much the guy is fucking the girl. The girl is not fucking the guy. Therefore the girl is the slut.
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On October 25 2009 03:22 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2009 02:53 Captain Mayhem wrote:On October 25 2009 01:49 Foucault wrote:On October 25 2009 01:41 Captain Mayhem wrote:On October 25 2009 01:08 Foucault wrote:On October 24 2009 23:05 micronesia wrote:On October 24 2009 22:57 Foucault wrote:
rubbin' in peoples faces?
It's the truth unfortunately. I never got why guys think that equality is a good thing but not feminism, it's the same thing lol Usually, it is not. There are some feminists out there who want to fight for true equality as it is meant to be. Then there's the rest of them who can go take a long walk off a short pier. Now that is just wrong. Since men still have the power at large women who fight for equality are labeled strange and stupid and are considered to "hate men". This is a result of a patriarchal structure that basically doesn't want women to rise up and claim their position of equality. The fact of the matter is that feminism is the struggle for equality between the sexes and I believe that a simple thing such as changing the word "feminism" into something more suitable would attract more men to the cause too. We should ALL want equality in some way or another so why the hate. You could say that patriarchal discourse has labeled feminists as "evil" women, who want to "take over". Which is correct in some minor cases, but the majority of feminists want equality, plain and simple. What's also funny about your post is that men have always tried to keep their power and superiority at the expense of women in society. In Sweden for example, women weren't allowed to vote up until a 100 years ago, which says quite alot about how long men have been in charge of everything in society. Now when women want more rights and want equality, men think that women should off themselves in a literary sense. How does this even make sense while claiming to want equality at the same time? Maybe you don't want true equality between men and women though, what do I know. It would be kind of you if you could define exactly what you mean by "true equality" in this case. I'm just curious, so don't take it as a "i don't trust you" It's just that whenever I hear people discuss equality between genders, they usually come to a certain limit where they think it's starting to get ridiculous. Equal payment? Sure, why not. Same requirements for a job? Of course. Males breastfeeding their babies? A bit over the line. (I actually saw it in some newspaper the other day, some guy using machines to try and grow breasts. He was hailed by quite a few feminists, according to the journalist, since it would apparently "help equality". How, I don't know, but completely erasing the lines between what is male and female, is just horrifying) The only real problem with the lack of equality nowadays is about jobs positions and payment, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yep, it's very hard to define what equality is and if you want to do it, you will have to think where you stand regarding biological and sociological explanations for gender. Some people believe that there is almost no biological gender to how men and women behave, but it's rather gender-roles that have been used and refined through thousands of years. Of course our bodies are different and what not but the actual difference in how men and women "are" has alot to do with how we are being raised. We are molded into men and women through socialization, where society tells us what we can do and say in line with our designated gender roles. I think men and women are different in many biological aspects, some which also carry over to behavior but the majority of characteristics for behavior stem from gender roles, and personal differences not having anything to do with biological gender. Oh and wages and employment is just the tip of the iceberg, the concrete symptoms of a patriarchy that is still very much in effect. Sweden has come quite far in terms of equality, but gender roles still dictate to a large degree how men and women interact with eachother and within in the same gender. Agree on every point. Our instincts might be in the way of trying to raise children into equality. I mean, in the early years of school, boys and girls automatically separate into two groups, and later in puberty you have a ton of hormones, estrogen and whatnot kicking in, so it's going to be impossibly hard to stop ALL the social differences with these unstoppable biological things happening. (Also, it is my belief that the brains between genders function in different ways too. I can't prove it, so I'll just put it in parenthesis. Anyway, I believe males have a higher capability of logical thinking, while females have a higher capability for empathy. Might affect behavior as well to various degrees.)However breaking the ancient "tradition" of males being the workers and females nursing the children is going to be a bit easier. It's well on the way at least, and pretty impressive seeing that it has been that way ever since we started walking on two legs. Easier, because the need for it disappeared with the arrival of civilization, and we're pretty much just going on with it out of old habit so to say. Yeah basically it's very hard to say what's what. What's biology and what's defined gender roles? About brains being different I think this is huge fallacy and I don't believe it for one bit. I mean, brains function differently between individuals too, someone can't metabolize certain vitamines as well as someone else and one person might have higher levels of catecholamines in the brain, while another person is naturally "calm" (as in less stress-hormones). This is kind of a trap too, because we know brains function differently between individuals and the entire reason that we even consider thinking that womens brains are better at emotions than ours is to reinvent the notion that women aren't logical. Logic = better alot of the times according to the male norm, thus this idea just states over again that women are inferior. Do you follow? I think the "difference" you are talking about is almost 100% about gender roles. Women aren't encouraged to be logical and intelligent in the same way that men are. And men are supposed to be "badass" "tough" and whatever adjectives there are to describe the male persona. This is imo a huge social construct; gender roles. They were practical centuries ago(which doesn't make them more moral or better) but aren't really needed today. Yeah, I think it's ridiculous how the human species still hold on to alot of old prejudice. We are truly blind and awkward in many areas, especially with women's role in society today and historically. We need to step into the 21:th century. Women make up 50% of the earths population, word.
Hahaha, yeah I follow. Very good point about the brain! I think I just read it in some study, but I have never bothered to check it up further. On the flip side though, your theory hasn't been fully proven either. In any case, congratulations! You just converted me to be neutral about that subject from now on Thanks!
It seems we agree on everything else though, so any further discussion between the two of us would simply be material for the club of internal admiration.
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On October 25 2009 03:29 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I always thought that the reason was the guy was receiving sex were in most cases the girl is giving sex, pretty much the guy is fucking the girl. The girl is not fucking the guy. Therefore the girl is the slut.
I agree with this. Human nature has a tendency to admire male attributes (dominance, aggressiveness, etc). In intercourse, it is generally that the man is the aggressor of the action and the woman is the receiver. While the male is seen as dominant, bold, aggressive in intercourse, the woman is submissive, and easily taken by her lust.
Edit: I actually just realized that you said the guy is receiving sex and the girl is giving sex.. I think it's the other way around.
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I disagree with the idea men and women are hard wired in specific ways. I think that's a load of shit by people looking for excuses to oversimplify the world.
I also don't admire guys who don't have steady relationships. Why do you want to be around someone like that? So they can cheat on you if you have intercourse with them? So they can make passes at your girl if you are their 'friend.' Do these people even have real friends? If they use women as masturbation toys instead of as partners? "Stud?" Give me a break. Idiots having sex with each other.
Maybe if I went to an American High School I would feel different.
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On October 25 2009 03:29 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I always thought that the reason was the guy is giving sex were in most cases the girl is receiving sex, pretty much the guy is fucking the girl. The girl is not fucking the guy. Therefore the girl is the slut.
So that sums up as: He's putting something in - She's taking something out.
This explains everything on so many levels.
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EPT
