EPTPYP: League of Legends Mafia
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1) for my own personal benefit I'd like to request the list which I'm sure someone has of number/role claims. 2) this is a game where the sign up list can and will be changed. Does anyone have a record of the sign ups list at the beginning of d1? If so that should be made public as more information to town is good and I'll bet money that scum has the list (assuming they don't suck) so we won't be giving them anything by making it public. More importantly I want that list public now so that in endgame 2v1 lylo we don't have some lazy townies who didn't pay any attention and will miss the modconfirmed scum because they couldn't be assed to do the work to find said scum. In a game of this size I'm sure that by endgame, no matter how well or poorly town as a whole does the best and most involved townies will be dead. ces't la vie. I'm going to be reading the thread, its my fiance's birthday and I've been partying with her all night but she is worn out and asleep now. I think I'll be able to read the whole thread tonight but we'll see. Is there anyone or anything I should be looking at particularly? | ||
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D1 sign up list On December 01 2013 01:06 geript wrote:
Might be worthwhile later. the current sign up list after n1 is:
Which hopefully means that there are no day time list switch powers. Based on the numbers of replacements I'm curious to look at those individuals in particular who have replaced in, with so many people replacing I find myself nervous about replacements in general and would like to work to clear/indict those slots first because of how little must have been offered by the originals and even more so because so many of the replacements are not known for terribly stellar town play; all five have the ability to play well but equally have the ability to play poorly. I've seen too many games where a replacement makes it to endgame and is lynched/let go because of their predecessor. My desire would be to get reads on the five replacements from the players who are known to play town well in this game I'd say marv, sandro, VE, SS and Rayn. I'd like reads from the five of you on the five replacement slots. My reads on the five I'm most curious of based mostly on filter diving and a little on thread context (not my preferred method of finding scum but I can't get my teeth into the thread somehow, its just too much when I wasn't there to think about stuff while it was happening). I looked at the lynch and went back to the filters. Kush I feel good about kush, he cared about the lynch and defended his town read. He didn't flip on that read even when said read attacked him for it. He stayed calm and collected in the discussion which is so not scum kush. There was a post of Kush's which felt lonely (okay I know this is silly, stick with me) and I don't think a scum kush would post it; this kid is an active player whatever else can be said about him and in his scum games he is all up in that scum qt. If I had to makes a guess on kush at this point in this game I'd say both that he is town and that he is playing better than usual. My only qualm is how diplomatic kush is playing, I'm choosing to believe (and I think the evidence supports) that it is a better town game from him but it may be a new scum style. On the five part scale kush is a 2 (1= confirmed town all the way down to 5 = preferred lynch) + Show Spoiler [Supporting points on the above:] + Bum read On December 04 2013 00:03 kushm4sta wrote: DO NOT LYNCH BUM. I think it's literally impossible for scum to think this way. His thought process is so freaking town. continues to defend Bum (with logic) On December 04 2013 01:11 kushm4sta wrote: case against bum: contradictions flinging vague shit Town do both of these things all the time. In the hypothetical situation that bum was town, I would expect behavior that was tryhard and scared. That comes from his level of experience and his personality. "Contradictions" and "flinging vague shit" are only scumtells when the player is not scared (a more experienced player) and not tryhard. Kush's loneliness On December 04 2013 07:26 kushm4sta wrote: bum so isn't scum. im literally the only person defending him.. LSB I don't know LSB (to my knowledge we've never played together) so I can't say as much about him as a player but his first few posts don't sit terribly well with me. Specifically his defensive reply to Rayn's very clear comment seemed out of place; that defensiveness suggests to me that if LSB is scum there is at least one scum in the top six picks. Not yet relevent but something to keep in mind. LSB follows this with a totally contradictory post the contradiction in which I'm ignoring in the interest of not bleeding from the ears, the post again rubs me the wrong way though it chastises town for banning out pro-scum roles. Along with this LSB says he WILL roleclaim and that everyone had better roleclaim OR ELSE. The bluster in those posts is strong and a blustery player is trying hard to put themselves in a position in town, not necessarily scummy but raises red flags. Bum mentions (in one of the posts in the spoiler under Kush's name) that he thinks LSB is better than he is playing in this game, the bluster means that LSB thinks so too. I like that LSB followed through with the folly that is his claiming plan but it hurts my brain to think that he thought enacting a claiming plan without getting town ready to act on this claiming plan was worthwhile. At best individual roleclaims mean nothing. At worst they inform scum as to how to act. LSB's single minded devotion to the mass claiming/number gathering is interesting. I like it. It needs to be done in a pyp game (just as the list managing needs to be done in this game particularly) town needs these things done and LSB doing them is pro town!! If LSB fails to do anything else and does not catch scum through his list analysis he is scum, the behavious he has exibited is that of a townie however it is easy to fake as scum and he hasn't done other things which scum cannot fake. However for the moment I'm happy to have a player approaching the game though the analytic paths. LSB is an old school player and his play reflects that old school mindset. I've written a lot on LSB because my thoughts were pretty varied. All in all I'd take him as town for now with a little mark next to his name to make sure to look into his participation in the future and whether he continues to focus only on mechanics. rating: 2.5 + Show Spoiler [citations] + Defensive reply contradictions On December 02 2013 09:27 LSB wrote: I wouldn't say it is totally wrong. Ever since town decided the best idea was to ban out the obvious mafia roles, which was a horrible idea because those would be easy mafia kills, roles do not = aliment. However, giving mafia the power roles free reign is an incredibly stupid idea and come day I will be roleclaiming and voting anyone who doesnt LSB's number focus On December 04 2013 03:02 LSB wrote: I'll just post it again to clear up confusion If you are vanilla town it is important for you to reveal what role you tried to take If you can deal damage it is important for you to reveal what role you tried to take If you are DT/Medic/Tracker it is highly suggested, but I will forgive you if you don't, to reveal what role you take We need to know if Janna, Heimerdinger, Karthus and other roles that have the ability to increase mafia KP are in the game. Koshi [2][1] - Viktor Kurumi [4][6] - Warwick VisceraEyes [5][4] - Lux jcarlsoniv [9][3] - Soft Blue claim, cannot deal damage Mig [12][1] JonnyLaw [14][11] Risen [15][15] - Karma StorrZerg [23][23] geript [24][24] Warwick? -> VT? austinmcc [6][3] Meapak_Ziphh [6][14] Sandroba - Fiora Kenpachi[8][15] - Blue Claim Rean [16][2] Lux-> VT bumatlarge [16][12] -> Soft Blue Claim Onegu [17][5] Soft Blue Claim, probably a power role. Claim was done by BC justanothertownie marvellosity [7][2] - Blue Claim gtrsrs [7][11] Kha'Zix -> VT OdinOfPergo [7][16] Karma -> VT Mocsta [1][5] ? ->VT supersoft [1][30] Oatsmaster [1][1] Cho'Gath ->VT raynpelikoneet [1][1] - Shen kushm4sta ticklishmusic Taric Roffles Coagulation jaybrundage [Tabbz] Ezreal? LSB -> Tryndamere Onegu Oh God! I want to lynch Onegu on this filter. And I'd hate myself for lynching him on this filter. I am so sorry for what I am about to say! Onegu's whole filter is a discussion of his son, the whole thing is a sympathy grab and bares no relevance to the game. He spends a lot of time apologizing and none playing. His only post is an I'll sheep Rayn post. Double donkey fuck. I hate this filter and I know its totally possible form it that Onegu is an honest townie. The thing is I also know that its as likely he is a dishonest scummer. I know nothing about Onegu: not a hard scum read but I wouldn't mind him being vig hit/lynched. He has a mark next to his name that says he had better shape the fuck up. I know he newbied his way to mafia victory in the past, he cannot be allowed to sympathy his way into endgame. rating: 4 + Show Spoiler [Onegu's one post] + On December 04 2013 05:00 Onegu wrote: So Im on page 66 rigjt now and it 3am. I promise I will catch up tomorrow, but deadline is in 7 hours. So I am right now confident in my ability to read rayn and believe he is town as he was the first person to really start scum hunting. So I am going to sheep him and consolidate, as close to where I am reading people said it was really important not to have outlander votes so people can analyze it. So I should be up before deadline amd get somemore reading in. ##Vote:bumatlarge Coag A little like the above, Coag has done nothing. Coag may do nothing as town or scum either way, he claimed the birthday card. Since birthdays are only one day I give him a chance to shape up. Assuming he participates well in the day 2 proceedings I'll forgive him for his less than stellar start. I hope he shapes up as I've gotten to like him recently, he did a rather good job as a host in the OMGus game I played and was generally a pleasant dude to be around; I'd like to get to see him play. Because I expect this kind of play from Coag at least a little I want to give him a 3 rather than a 4 but in reality I wouldn't be too torn up over his death so in the end his rating is 4 Promethelax cool kid, totes town. Probably better than you. You should listen to him. rated 1 | ||
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On December 04 2013 15:20 Mocsta wrote: (1) See LSB filter (2) First draft pick list is around page31 I think.. or alternatively filter OP 3rd post = Mid or Feed (3) I'm really struggling to read LSB in general, so if you want to put a fresh perspective that I would appreciate it. Otherwise, some Persons of Interest to consider: Kush, Jay, Jonnylaw, some say Geript or VE. I'll look into JL, JB and we'll see about the other two if I have time. If you are still around I'd like your thoughts on what I said about Kush and LSB. | ||
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To begin with I do have a history with Jay, I've played a few games with him. In the one where he played scum http://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/XzeY3JALfAC said "Jay - looking for a place to park his vote, far too confrontational and not carefree like town jay whatsoever, has been afk for a long time" in the obs qt and it was damn accurate. So in reading jay's filter I am looking for the confrontational v carefree thing. Aside: its how I read Hopeless1der too, you all should learn it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=15#285 is pretty damn carefree. He is being challenged not only on his townieness but also his intelligence and he comes back with that little masterwork of posting including (this is my favourite part) the part of his screen shot that shows the Wikipedia entry for apostrophe open in another window. This kid is carefree as they come. Outside of the meta read Jay has posted some really god-awful stuff this for instance On December 01 2013 20:50 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I never played a PYP game before I thought we send in draft numbers another phase. I didn't realize we had to ban and send in draft. So far I think Rayn is town. I dont like marv. I have been in games with him where he plays an amazing scum. I would be totes fine with lynching him. He doesn't seem to care much and knowing how good a mafia player he is. He wont incriminate him self easily where Jay calls marv scum for being good scum and because he is playing badly here. Which, obviously, makes no fucking sense. Now I rather think a post that poorly thought through is more likely to come from town than scum. A scum writing that post would be thinking about how that sounded and would realize the asinine nature of it, I think a townie would be more likely to parataxically attach those two thoughts and post them as one post. Big points for Jay being town OR scum pulling something complex and stupid: His place on the draft order due to not sending in any numbers. Since I am of the opinion that it is waaaay more likely that a townie made a dumb-dumb than that the scum team planned a crazy out of this world get-jay-to-be-confirmed-town-by-not-picking-numbers plan I have to conclude that Jay is town. Rating: 1 with the caveat that if we flip scum with crazy draft picks he needs to be looked at again Look at his actual play and tell me you think that is scum play. I just don't see it. I want to see it because I'm getting bored of reading filters and concluding; probably town but I can't do much about the conclusion. I think he is town and I can't see why anyone who analysed his play would suggest he was scum. | ||
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On December 04 2013 16:47 VisceraEyes wrote: Mocsta was right - excessive smack-down on the field. Not a huge thing, just something I noticed at the time and didn't bring up because I was afraid I would talk myself into switching off Bum. Prom thank you for replacing in - having one less slot to worry about is going to really help things. You're very obviously town by your first post, so congratulations. Now try not to get killed please. With that, I'm going to bed. I'll do the filter thang tomorrow and either give you reads over the course of the phase or near the end before the next - depending on how excited I get by what I read I guess. The one at the top of pg 129? No I wasn't don't bullshit me. I wrote that in my head before I saw my role. | ||
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Not even a name I recognize. Given that he doesn't even have a mafia database entry I'll assume he is new.. As always anyone who knows anything about the individual who can add anything metawise would be greatly appreciated. According to an old Gonzaw heuristic I'd have to call JL scum, he stopped posting while getting boozed up. You can't trust a dude who stops posting while his guard is down. Based on his early posts I'll assume Johnnylaw is a LoL convert brought over by Wave. Dude knows his LoL (and I don't, so a lot of his early posts are not in a language I speak). DINGDINGDING we have a winner folks On December 01 2013 11:18 JonnyLaw wrote: This makes no sense. There's not a lot of pressure on you because you're flipping it on everyone else. Just fucking calm down, make your arguments and wait while we gain more information as people post, vote and draft. I get that you're making people talk and that will help us down the line but for now we have little information and ten pages of personal attacks and shit posting is clogging up the whole fucking thread. Get your shit together or I'm saying you are scum or at the least, not helping the town actively. The series of personal attacks and shit posting for ten pages gave me nothing yet. I'll post again after I see what scum ban. Holy double donkey dicks. Would lynch off of this post. 1. threat 2. it was a weak threat 3 that last sentence. You know what ten pages of shitposting gives a townie? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with bum lead. 4. the whole thing is a soft grab for town points, its a 'ooh but bad thread atmosphere is bad' post with out doing anything to fix what it complains about. Scum love to agree with something being anti town while doing nothing to prevent it. So far this post is the scummiest thing I've read in this thread. Would lynch. This post is pretty awful to (its directed at bum) On December 01 2013 13:28 JonnyLaw wrote: Warwick's not a strong first pick. + Show Spoiler + At night, you may submit the name and champion name of a player This means we need to know which champion the player has successfully picked. Why pick trynd at all? Just so you know who has tryndamere? There's not a chance in hell I'm picking that champion. I plan to contribute to winning this game. Dealing damage to people above/below me does not help us win the game. I don't even understand. Actually, I must say fuck your list. I disagree strongly with most of the conclusions. I think you're scum as is. "I don't understand, therefore you are scum" = scummy "I don't understand, I would like to understand" = townie which is the above? Oh yes, the former. Johnnylaw is not making new points of his own, is arguing for and against nothings and keeps grabbing at town points while attacking town favoured plans. Note that he argues with the usefulness of the plan but does not provide a better plan, he is tearing down not bringing up. Corollary to the Chezinu rule, the kushmasta rule. On December 03 2013 06:25 JonnyLaw wrote: Okay, I was out all day yesterday. Two hours later I've finally caught up in the thread. gtrs - I dont like how his filter reads but he hasn't really given us much to lynch him either. I know he's capable of playing better as town so either he's busy, lazy or scum. None of these qualities help us win the game. Soniv - fine for now. Looks to be making an effort to push the game towards a goal. kushmasta - Like really? This guy comes into the thread and starts calling people scum in one liners and generally shitting the place up. He replaced OWB who completely shut down and hated playing scum in NMM L. The random tooscummytobescum post irritates me as well. The rest have longer filters and I need to evaluate them. Just reading through the last 20 pages hasn't left me with other strong feelings yet. I'll be checking filters and around for a while. twenty pages of reading twenty four hours after his last thread appearance and the only kinda scummy thing he picks up on is that kush is a weird ass dude. I could have told you that for free. He also says that gtsrs is playing the game. Which is not a conclusion. Everyone can see that gt is busy/lazy/scum JL doesn't provide any insight, he says he didn't like something and follows it with nothing until VE brings it up again at which time JL +1s like a champ. He does these quick summaries of people which I can't stand, many of you know my stance on list posts without content and JL has many posts which are just one continuous contentless list. A bit of an excuse since Sandro asked him to look at those particular filters but in reality he said nothing about the four players. Conclusion rating 4.5 my qualms with a JL lynch. The kid may be so new he doesn't see what he is doing and is unsure of how to contribute in a large game, lord knows its hard. He could be throwing around dog crap posts because he simply doesn't know how to make better posts, he seems relativly involved in the thread and has intereacted with many players by name and by idea. For now he looks like my first pressure for day two but I am not yet confidant I will want to lynch him. If I had to guess most likely scum out of the players I have filtered so far I'd take JL no questions asked. | ||
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On December 04 2013 17:19 Mocsta wrote: I really can't follow that Jay read. My only meta on him is from Nomination and my memory was that he was paranoid -- carefree doesn't ring a bell. Like, I get you are trying to paint a picture of carefree; but I dont see how that apostrophe post conveys that message? The pick selection was semi-discussed early game and holds some form of merit -- and there were 2 people that posted in the game that failed to submit #'s. Does this auto qualify both as town?? + then you get that hes AFK towards the end of the lynch, suddenly gets called out and magically appears to vote the leading bandwagon. I'm not sold on Jay being confirmed town in the slightest. My meta stuff is outdated it has been a long time since I played. Take it with a grain of salt. However you are taking two things and combining them. You should remember the three Ms of mafia (Mindset, mentality and meta) I coached you I'm sure I mentioned it to you somewhere. You are confusing Jay's town mindset: paranoid and his mentality: carefree. Jay's posts themselves are carefree, he isn't worried about things even though he is Best mislynch NA, he owns his badness and revels in it. He is also paranoid, he suspects everyone for everything. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Jay is a doofus. When you have a doofus on your scum team you make sure they do the right thing. In scum chat you'll be talking about picks as this a PYP game and scum coordinate their numbers its a big thing for them. On the whole I'd say that yes, in fact, the two people who did not pick numbers are probably town. If at any point one flips scum the other has to be looked at much more closely though as that means scum were thinking about using the no-pick to look townie. I can't comment on timings because I wasn't here for them. Were Jay's actions scummy? Undoubtedly. Were his actions possible from a town jay? Equally undoubtedly. The kid can be a lurk machine. Who was the other player? | ||
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On December 04 2013 17:37 supersoft wrote: meh... and why do people always start posting their analysis at night?! I replaced in at night, I don't have a lot of choices. | ||
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Super, will I have to start by calling you scum to have you come have a nice conversation with me or will you do it because you wanna be best buddies and wreck scum? [/serious] | ||
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In particular I look forward to talking with those of you who will be useful. Please make that all of you. | ||
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While you are here tell me which parts of that case you found convincing and which you doubted. | ||
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In inventing consider that scum were most afraid of DT roles and you would do well to create them, though they can be boring to invent they are some of the best roles a town can have, even more so when scum has no framer/godfather powers. | ||
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On December 04 2013 18:45 geript wrote: As for primes big case on jay, not sure whether to not believe it or feel cockblocked. Haven't filtered you yet, I assume there is a good reason for those feelings. Explain it for me so I don't have to go filter diving you right now please. I don't have the energy to filter you right now (its 6am for me and I'm still up), I think I saw somewhere you were interested in lynching one of the J players, I thought it was JayB. Was it JL? | ||
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On December 04 2013 19:19 marvellosity wrote: Please provide evidence for this, as far as I'm aware (and quickly glancing through TL Mafia Database) this is simply totally untrue. Dessert mafia again. Jay chose to lurk through the game as scum, he said later that he had been planning on having an active town game but had to match his town meta as scum. Off to find quotes. Will return shortly. | ||
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On January 27 2013 10:33 jaybrundage wrote: Hey guys at the anniversary dinner ill have to read the obs qt later thos game was really frustrating cause i didnt actually have internet acess i was planning to play this game as aggressive town. The lurking wasntwasnt by choice wbg which actually says he did have real world problems and intended not to be lurky. That is the only game I really remember playing with him though so that must be where the misconception entered my mind. Will have to pursue some of his other games. | ||
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yeah fuck it. Next post is geript filter dive. Why not? Marv, I still think my point about jay holds. People come and go, they have lives. A decent amount of the time a delurk is just when someone has time to be in the thread. Comments on the authenticity of reading him based on not sending in numbers. I think that is the most important point in my Jay read and what really gets at the inherent reason he is town. | ||
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geript starts with all the tough guy posing, its interesting to note but not all that important right now. Its something to remember though as its clearly a persona gerpit is putting on. Reasons for both scum and town to do this. He comes out the gate with "no bans at all" which seems so totally nonsensical that I've been staring at that post for five minutes (part of the blame lays in how tired I am). Here are the possible reasonings I can imagine for posting that 1) is town and believes that no bans is beneficial to town in some way, impossible. 2) is scum and is trying to gain town cred by doing something so outlandish that 'scum could never do it' possible 3) is dumber than a monkey's fart. Unlikely, Conclusion A. Leans scummy for post on bans. His early attacks on JayB + Show Spoiler [seen here] + On November 30 2013 14:17 geript wrote: No, the only reason why you'd expect him to be honest about his claim is because you're scum. Just like how only mods can recognize a fake nuke and make a joke about it. You're scum. Conclusion B: leans back towards town for his creation of early disscussion The problem I have with this is that geript holds on to this thing which should be obviously not worth a damn to him (and everyone else) its an hour 0 pressure. Its based on almost nothing. But geript is in it like a hell hound. Got his teeth sunk in the meat of Jay's leg all deep like, I don't see it from a townie. A scum wants to leave fangs in over something dumb because its a way to look active. A town gives up bad game as bad when they realize its going no where. Conclusion C: goes further back the way of scum due to taking too long in letting go of bad reasoning to attack a player. Geript is talking about how roles don't matter. Geript who was in that PYP where sn0 got inventor and wrecked face with OP inventions. That same PYP where roles were key in a bunch of shit. Roles saved town in that game. Geript even got to shoot scum because of the power of the inventor role. His insistence that roles do not matter rings empty and false. Conclusion D: geript hates town winning the game. gerpit did post the sign up list order in the thread. A thing which is good and pro town and easy to do. It gains him town points but they are very tentative. I'm perturbed by geript's very sincere belief that there are six scum and that scum have two kp. Both are in his filter and not in the OP. I think both those numbers are a little off from what I'd expect in this size game but they make sense together; a conclusion no sane player of tl mafia would reach but something a host might do. geript puts players on ignore which is simply awful as town. It serves to benefit you as scum and do dick all if you are town. Kush will remember me yelling at him about this in ## recently. geript, don't ignore people or put them on ignore or anything. Its bad. geript hard defends Rayn d0 and really puts his foot down about it. He takes a hard stance which I rather like. Its odd, everything I'm seeing seems to objectively point to scum but I don't find it convincing. There is something in how geript is thinking that seems silly but not scummy maybe? I can't explain it right. He is ringing all the scum bells but it feels like he is ringing them for the wrong reasons. He has all this ill founded bravado that I [i]think would be hard for him to do as scum. He is very in your face and it seems townie. I like geript's day one play, he is all around the place. Starts on jay but doesn't stick. Has gotten over his bad tunnel. HIts oats. I also think [spoiler=this post] On December 03 2013 02:23 geript wrote: It's a quote from the first podcasts. Geez Marv get with the program. I think the question was how can I get that fun carefree frilly style and still be effective. As an addendum answer Kurumi noted how that style is very hard to mimic as scum. Especially since as scum you need people to listen to you. So it becomes obvious when you break from it. [/spoiler] on Kuru is surprisingly insightful. He is drawing from something out of game and making connections in game to give a town read. Its a hard read to back down from too. That posts makes gerpit likely town in my opinion. In general geript's thread presence and intentional interactions with many different players give me an early town read. Not one I'm terribly confidant in but I would not be happy with a day one lynch on him. I haven't gotten though his whole filter (I'm only up to those all caps posts about how marv should touch his penis) and I won't finish it right now. I'm exhausted and not sure I'm making much sense. Conclusion omega: geript is probably a townie playing poorly in the early game rather than a scummer. Would not be happy lynching him d1. As he is trying to contribute. My major problem with him as a town read is conclusion A. I'm having trouble reconciling that thought process with a townie. I may finish his filter later. For the moment he isn't a person of interest for me. For the moment sleep is a person of interest. I see you all tomorrow. [/b] | ||
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