• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:49
CET 09:49
KST 17:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win1BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1476 users

TL Mafia LXI

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
March 24 2013 18:33 GMT
#37
/in
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
March 24 2013 20:28 GMT
#41
On March 25 2013 05:24 Blazinghand wrote:
none of that is as dumb as the presence of the snitch in quidditch

Meanwhile, multiple immortallity stones fall by the wayside.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 10 2013 12:15 GMT
#143
On March 25 2013 03:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
/in

Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 19 2013 12:07 GMT
#201
/in
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 04:15 GMT
#254
BH DUCKS FORE CRIPS PASS IT ON
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 15:21 GMT
#329
@palmar's read on vivax:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.


"Absurd" I agree with. "Strange value" however...could you expand on how his heuristic is useful at discerning OTHER people's alignment, because I don't see it.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 15:43 GMT
#334
On April 22 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea is that anyone who posted before him is invested enough to at the very least look elsewhere - unless I'm missing something.

That's a terrible heuristic if it is that simple. Simply posting in the thread, especially in the first ~2ish hours does not a townie make.

On April 22 2013 00:31 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 00:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@palmar's read on vivax:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.


"Absurd" I agree with. "Strange value" however...could you expand on how his heuristic is useful at discerning OTHER people's alignment, because I don't see it.


I would like to know what motivates you to ask Palmar that question. Are you feeling uncomfortable with the fact that he's giving me a townread? Do you see scum motivation in doing so or do you think I'm scum?

Yes I am uncomfortable with him giving you a townread off of something I read as non-indicative. I also want to know why he suggests there is any value in the heuristic you used because it's nonsense imo.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 15:48 GMT
#338
I value being able to read things. Use the preview tabs plox.
On April 22 2013 00:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 00:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:11 TheRavensName wrote:
On April 21 2013 23:50 Palmar wrote:
On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote:
On April 21 2013 22:52 Vivax wrote:
On April 21 2013 22:48 TheRavensName wrote:
On April 21 2013 22:42 Vivax wrote:
On April 21 2013 22:38 TheRavensName wrote:
Huh... I was curious to see how big boys start playing the game... and less then a page's worth of posting totals I see an OMGuS. I feel somewhat surprised; apparently the way newbies open mafia games is the right way?

PS: Bill Murray yelling indoors is really mean.


Oooo, an omgus, interesting.
Are you okay with the way Oats is playing the game?

I'm not a 100% sure what hes doing, but if you want to call it playing then... maybe? Truth be told the fact that palmer just randomly takes offense to a baseless acucsation in a game that just started doesn't make a lot of since to me.


He's asking for a base to the accusation, precisely.
Do you have any ideas to get some discussion started? Your entrance kinda looked like you tried to downplay what's going on in the thread, which in turn makes me think you're trying to communicate reasons for not doing anything.
Do you think this description fits your play or did your posts have other purposes?


I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns.....

And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something.


3. You seem confused as to what to do on day 1. I gave a short explanation not long ago on hapa/drh's podcast thingee. The goal of day 1 is to make people fear for their lives, which is precisely what I mean to do with Oats.



Which one?


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BztYu18cOor9cTdUMTFjdmYtVXM/edit?usp=sharing

protown cheese is protown, sharing all the protown information.

On April 10 2013 10:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On April 10 2013 10:28 Promethelax wrote:
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.



I'm confirmed scum :o

Kush probably town. ^
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:05 GMT
#351
On April 22 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 00:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea is that anyone who posted before him is invested enough to at the very least look elsewhere - unless I'm missing something.

That's a terrible heuristic if it is that simple. Simply posting in the thread, especially in the first ~2ish hours does not a townie make.

On April 22 2013 00:31 Vivax wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@palmar's read on vivax:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.


"Absurd" I agree with. "Strange value" however...could you expand on how his heuristic is useful at discerning OTHER people's alignment, because I don't see it.


I would like to know what motivates you to ask Palmar that question. Are you feeling uncomfortable with the fact that he's giving me a townread? Do you see scum motivation in doing so or do you think I'm scum?

Yes I am uncomfortable with him giving you a townread off of something I read as non-indicative. I also want to know why he suggests there is any value in the heuristic you used because it's nonsense imo.


What I regard as important about your question is that you seem to assume that scumPalmar would give me an easy townread, when it wouldn't serve any purpose for him, unless you know of one and want to talk about it.

Your question's whole purpose seems to be attacking Palmar's townread on me, which makes me curious. Cause town's goal is to find reasons for someone being scum, and not for heuristics to get townreads not being correct, that is mafia's goal cause it reduces the pool of people they could get lynched.

So unless you see me or Palmar as scummy for some reason you aren't citing, I see the question you're asking as something that looks like scum agenda, as you criticize someone for issuing a townread on another guy.

Then, why Palmar specifically? CC called everyone in the thread town at a certain point, and I called everyone posting before me town, yet you deem Palmar most interesting for issuing a single townread.

Palmar's explanation for why he gave you a townread doesn't make sense to me and I want to question it. No one is confirmed fuck-all until they flip, but you throw it around based on the fact that they posted in the thread before you. I'd call that as you being reckless. Not scum, not town. Palmar disagrees and has cited some kind of reasoning. I wish to hear it.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:07 GMT
#353
On April 22 2013 00:58 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 23:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
THANKS FOR MAKING ME HAVE TO READ THE DAMNED OP BH THAT WAS COOL OF YOU NOT

Sup guys I'm here and I'm very town. So whazzup?


also something i noticed...
i think this is borderline cheating for talking about the PM but I also think it points heavily to town.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Assume I am 5 years old. Please explain.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:16 GMT
#356
On April 22 2013 01:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea is that anyone who posted before him is invested enough to at the very least look elsewhere - unless I'm missing something.

That's a terrible heuristic if it is that simple. Simply posting in the thread, especially in the first ~2ish hours does not a townie make.

On April 22 2013 00:31 Vivax wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@palmar's read on vivax:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.


"Absurd" I agree with. "Strange value" however...could you expand on how his heuristic is useful at discerning OTHER people's alignment, because I don't see it.


I would like to know what motivates you to ask Palmar that question. Are you feeling uncomfortable with the fact that he's giving me a townread? Do you see scum motivation in doing so or do you think I'm scum?

Yes I am uncomfortable with him giving you a townread off of something I read as non-indicative. I also want to know why he suggests there is any value in the heuristic you used because it's nonsense imo.


What I regard as important about your question is that you seem to assume that scumPalmar would give me an easy townread, when it wouldn't serve any purpose for him, unless you know of one and want to talk about it.

Your question's whole purpose seems to be attacking Palmar's townread on me, which makes me curious. Cause town's goal is to find reasons for someone being scum, and not for heuristics to get townreads not being correct, that is mafia's goal cause it reduces the pool of people they could get lynched.

So unless you see me or Palmar as scummy for some reason you aren't citing, I see the question you're asking as something that looks like scum agenda, as you criticize someone for issuing a townread on another guy.

Then, why Palmar specifically? CC called everyone in the thread town at a certain point, and I called everyone posting before me town, yet you deem Palmar most interesting for issuing a single townread.

Palmar's explanation for why he gave you a townread doesn't make sense to me and I want to question it. No one is confirmed fuck-all until they flip, but you throw it around based on the fact that they posted in the thread before you. I'd call that as you being reckless. Not scum, not town. Palmar disagrees and has cited some kind of reasoning. I wish to hear it.


I'll interject here, to try and be all protown and useful.

Is recklessness not a town trait? Personally I know, as scum, I'm pretty careful about what I post in the way of reads. Especially sweeping generalizations like that. It's a towntell because Vivax isn't caring what people think about him, and he the post itself clearly was not premeditated as to seem like he were doing something. I think Palmar went over-the-top with the ultra super mega awesome townread, but hey you've got to generate discussion somewhere. I believe it's a townie thing to do as opposed to a scum thing.

I don't see it as particularly telling of either alignment as it was Vivax's first post. I read it and just kind of shook my head. I can follow not wanting to lynch him based on being reckless, though not with the certainty that Palmar has suggested. I'm specifically interested in the bolded.
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.

Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:17 GMT
#359
On April 22 2013 01:17 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 01:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:58 kushm4sta wrote:
On April 21 2013 23:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
THANKS FOR MAKING ME HAVE TO READ THE DAMNED OP BH THAT WAS COOL OF YOU NOT

Sup guys I'm here and I'm very town. So whazzup?


also something i noticed...
i think this is borderline cheating for talking about the PM but I also think it points heavily to town.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Assume I am 5 years old. Please explain.

do you know what VE is talking about?

I do not. If I did, I would probably understand what you're going on about.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:21 GMT
#362
On April 22 2013 01:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 01:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 01:17 kushm4sta wrote:
On April 22 2013 01:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
On April 22 2013 00:58 kushm4sta wrote:
On April 21 2013 23:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
THANKS FOR MAKING ME HAVE TO READ THE DAMNED OP BH THAT WAS COOL OF YOU NOT

Sup guys I'm here and I'm very town. So whazzup?


also something i noticed...
i think this is borderline cheating for talking about the PM but I also think it points heavily to town.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Assume I am 5 years old. Please explain.

do you know what VE is talking about?

I do not. If I did, I would probably understand what you're going on about.


All role PMs were just the name. I.E. Brave Wizard. None of us know wtf that is unless we read the OP. And such is what VE was talking about -- when he got his PM, he was like FUCK, gotta read dat OP so I know what I am.

okay. that is true of every single player in the game. Why does this imply VE is town? (Kush?)
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:26 GMT
#369
On April 22 2013 01:25 kushm4sta wrote:
@hopeless did you have to check the OP?
if you did, then why didn't you understand what VE said?

[sarcasm]No, I don't read role pm's[/sarcasm]
I didn't understand how that makes him town.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:32 GMT
#376
On April 22 2013 01:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
-snip-
Not sure if retarded..... or kush....

Same thing really. This was bound to happen, but kush gets a townread from me for it.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:33 GMT
#379
On April 22 2013 01:32 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 01:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we stop trying to use the role PM to discern alignments KTHX

I already did though!
VE town
CC town
Hopeless scum

2/3, not bad. owaitshit
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 16:50 GMT
#394
On April 22 2013 01:48 getmoript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 01:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On April 22 2013 01:23 kushm4sta wrote:
WE knew that's what VE meant because we are town. Scum prob didn't know what he meant. Now you just explained it to them.


Why wouldn't scum know what he meant? They had to do the exact same thing, the only difference is they had a QT in their PM. They still have to look up if they are framer,rber,godfather or whatever. Literally every person has to reference the op for their role, regardless of alignment.

How would you even know this? Are you scum? Did you receive a QT in your PM? Did you receive the QT in the same pm or a different pm? You are treading on highly suspicious ground for me because as a hydra I received my hydra QT in the same PM. You aren't a hydra clearly. How would you know that?


On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:
Sample PMs:

Auror
Brave Wizard
Harry Potter
Rita Skeeter
Voldemort, your QT: _____
Lucius Malfoy, your QT: _____


How the fuck is this so difficult to understand?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 17:00 GMT
#401
On April 22 2013 01:57 Palmar wrote:
Geript rerrible or scum?

Terrible.

Can you explain the strange value in Vivax's heuristic? I can follow how you discerned Vivax's alignment from his post, but not how you might figure out others based on it/the heuristic he used.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 21:01 GMT
#471
theres scarcely the need for a separate qt when you're scum. its not 100% but I actually agree with kush for a change.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 21 2013 21:06 GMT
#474
Palmar, are you ever going to elaborate on the bolded?
On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.


I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today.

Discuss.

1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 106
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9569
Calm 4008
Larva 1080
actioN 426
Zeus 404
Pusan 319
PianO 199
Leta 121
Killer 106
Dewaltoss 62
[ Show more ]
Shinee 46
Sacsri 37
Bale 36
JulyZerg 35
soO 30
Sharp 15
SilentControl 11
Noble 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 583
XcaliburYe9
League of Legends
JimRising 523
C9.Mang0198
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss453
Other Games
summit1g20601
ceh9462
Mew2King112
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick940
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 88
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo2458
• Berry_CruncH167
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11m
Wardi Open
3h 11m
Monday Night Weeklies
8h 11m
StarCraft2.fi
8h 11m
Replay Cast
15h 11m
Wardi Open
1d 3h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 8h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 16h
Wardi Open
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.