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Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIV

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
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Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 21 2012 07:30 GMT
#16
/in

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 24 2012 07:00 GMT
#27
On December 24 2012 15:50 debears wrote:
Townies that I coach seem to die n1....I don't get it


LOl.. to be honest, i wish I asked you and Hapa more questions.

But, I never knew what to ask
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 24 2012 07:28 GMT
#31
On December 24 2012 16:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2012 16:00 Mocsta wrote:
On December 24 2012 15:50 debears wrote:
Townies that I coach seem to die n1....I don't get it


LOl.. to be honest, i wish I asked you and Hapa more questions.

But, I never knew what to ask


I think the best way you can learn/correspond with a coach is to ask them for critical opinions on your reads/cases. It's a good safety-net against confirmation bias, and you get to see how an experienced player thinks about reads and tells.


Thanks will try this next game. I just didnt think youbguys wanted to be bogged down with reading cases when your active in one or two games. Good to know we can pester. So will take better advantage.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-27 13:27:33
December 27 2012 07:30 GMT
#67
Sweet. I think with Spag thats 2 players to go.

I assume regardless of filled capacity this would start after newbie 33?

Sorry its prob in the rules, but I am writing from p4

[Editted blue -> Green]
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 31 2012 00:26 GMT
#102
Common Newbie XXXIII players, sign up!!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 31 2012 04:37 GMT
#111
On December 31 2012 11:09 Spaghetticus wrote:
This game will likely be a little less hectic with the number of people that played in XXXIII. We'll almost have an established meta :D


NOO!!!!!

the last game was way too inactive for my liking
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 31 2012 06:02 GMT
#116
On December 31 2012 14:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2012 14:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
On December 31 2012 14:24 Aquanim wrote:
On December 31 2012 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
On December 31 2012 13:37 Mocsta wrote:
On December 31 2012 11:09 Spaghetticus wrote:
This game will likely be a little less hectic with the number of people that played in XXXIII. We'll almost have an established meta :D


NOO!!!!!

the last game was way too inactive for my liking


So will I be lynched this time if I suck Day 1?

Try not to find out


Well now that I know the answers to those questions matter, I won't find out.


Those first opening questions.


Those opening questions are just small talk; I wouldnt be too concerned with it; anyone can go into another thread and copy/paste a response from a "confirmed" townie.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 31 2012 07:20 GMT
#119
Thats cos u were trying hahha. I will just copy.paste cakepies first post. Hehe he got good cred from that.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
December 31 2012 11:02 GMT
#121
On December 31 2012 19:00 cakepie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2012 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Thats cos u were trying hahha. I will just copy.paste cakepies first post. Hehe he got good cred from that.


Including that bit about looking up a dictionary? <3


LOLs

Nicely Played.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 01 2013 22:49 GMT
#130
On December 29 2012 14:23 cakepie wrote:
If I /replacement will you put us in a "pastry" tier?

(Just kidding. I'm still undecided if I'm up for anything right after xxxiii yet)


C'mon Cakepie, we need a +1 and I am sure you want to do more dictionary retorts to me!

We NEED you.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 02 2013 11:12 GMT
#135
Fair enough.

One more n00b, where art thou!!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 02 2013 19:08 GMT
#142
On January 03 2013 03:29 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm gonna take it out when the game actually starts :O

Filters are srs bsns after all.


LOL

For posterity (i can remove if wanted)



Filters!

cDgCorazon
Mocsta
OmniEulogy
jampidampi
zarepath
Spaghetticus
Sylencia
StriX
TeMiL the Hero

9/9 players remain!

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 02 2013 19:39 GMT
#145
On January 03 2013 04:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
...


Late night, or just SUPER excited to play. LOL
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 02 2013 19:50 GMT
#147
On January 03 2013 04:43 TeMiL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2013 04:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
First time TeMiL?


yep 1st time. right now reading Newbie Guide


Thats a fine start.

but try here.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091#3

The first one is an excellent resource to have a read through.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 02 2013 20:28 GMT
#154
hmm

Smurfs allowed in this?

Regardless should prob vote Temil off Day 1 no matter what!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 03 2013 02:15 GMT
#180
On January 03 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:

1) Lynch all Lurkers or not?
As promised ...
Show nested quote +

"I am all for discouraging lurking, but policy lynching should never be a substitute for scum hunting. This game is about building well reasoned cases against suspected scum, pressing them, and the discussing and logically evaluating the cases on the strength of the evidence. When town is able to foster active, productive discussion, lurking is just another scummy behavior to be used to build up a case against suspicious players, and prolonged lurking in particular becomes more suspicious as the game continues.

There is never a good reason for town to lurk. Only by discussing our reasoning and lines of thought can we hope to find and eradicate scum. Town must never clam up for fear of making mistakes -- 1. it is through discussion that we may hope to correct errors in reasoning; and 2. more importantly, in the event of a mislynch, it would leave trail for others to follow. Hence, a silent townie is a far more useless than a bad townie.

I feel that it is futile to try to set predefined activity standards for what amounts to lurking; every game varies. Quality is also important. Insofar as fostering a healthy level of activity goes, this game is off to a good start; what we need to do now is to keep the discussion going. When we do get to the point when a few individual players are clearly standing out as not contributing productively (whether as a consequence of lurking or otherwise) we shall evaluate those cases at that time.

Policy discussion is nice to start the ball rolling and get people posting, but now that a good chunk of us are here, we need to switch our focus to scum hunting soon.

I did promise I would quote Cakepie

In all seriousness though:

Now that I am aware of my alignment I can go ahead with my plan to hopefully reduce lurker play styles.

My intention is every 12hrs, I will post a summary post which is going to give a count of every players posts in that interval.
Depending on the effort required, I may also summarise how many I think are fluff, and how many are (IMHO) genuine attempts to scum hunt.

My expectation is that this will highlight to all players: who is trying to contribute, and who is flying under the radar.


The knock on effect is, this tool should help stimulate town discussion and present additional options for scum hunting, and person(s) to apply pressure.


2) How would the mafia try to get us to mislynch a townie?
Simple. They will most likely do nothing.
As evidenced in Newbie Mafia XXXIII, active townies were lynching townies who deviated from the status quo and built up confirmation bias until a wagon started.
All the mafia had to do was stay silent, and let the townies do the work.

This leads to a valid point raised by Spaghetticus in Newbie Mafia XXXIII.
Show nested quote +

The fact that there is almost zero effort by anyone to change the subject of our lynchery screams silently as to the lack of frustration expressed by covert scum.
By lynching this early with no resistance, not only are we denying ourselves the opportunity to collect more data for day two, we are almost certainly doing the scum’s jobs for them.



LASTLY

3) What time zone are you in?

Can players please confirm time zone, so at least we can appreciate whether responses are not to be expected.

I am +8 GMT (thus, deadline is 8am for me)

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 03 2013 02:24 GMT
#182
On January 03 2013 11:08 Spaghetticus wrote:
My position is the opposite of Omni's. Lying is justifiable but lurking is not. Death to he who lurks!


Interesting. I assume this aligns with your previous thoughts from Newbie Mafia XXXIII..

On December 19 2012 11:00 Spaghetticus wrote:
For lying I am the same. In the one game I've played I lied to hide that I was a cop. If you lie this draws massive attention, but it's important to look for motive, intention, and possible outcomes as well.


@Spaghetticus
You believe lying as a blue power role is acceptable.
I will not choose to debate this, it is your opinion.


What I would like you to expand upon is the following:

Obviously it is in the nature of mafia to lie.
If you ask a mafia player.."Are you mafia", we can not expect them to reasonably answer "yes".

Thus, if both YOU and the mafioso have an inclination to lie (as indicated above);

How am I, or the remaining town players meant to reasonably differentiate you from the scum that surrounds town?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 03 2013 03:11 GMT
#191
On January 03 2013 11:44 zarepath wrote:
I would rather no-lynch on the first night than lynch lurkers, personally. I would think that first day lurkers in a newbie mafia game are more likely than not to be bored townies, especially considering the slow-roll start to this mafia game. I think that engaging in a Lynch Lurkers policy assumes that our town environment will be poor, and I'd rather simply create an environment without lurkers.
That is your prerogative, and I will not hold the "no-lynch" against you yet; due to your rational regarding town environment - I happen to agree.

I don't know how I feel about Mocsta's summary plan. I think people should be smart enough to realize who's contributing and who's not on their own, and a summary like that every twelve hours gives the impression of contributing without actually doing it.

Very fair point. I was hoping someone would pick this up.
I agree, summary posts like can be construed as "mock/scum" contributions [on the proviso, it is the only contribution]

However, that is not the intent of the summary post.

I agree whole-heartedly, that a lurker does not immediately suggest scum play. I also agree that it may indicate a bored townie.

In fact, I am also in general alignment with your thoughts on town environment.

I want to help facilitate a town atmosphere where:
      - we DO NOT just target (read: bandwagon) outspoken individuals - who typically will be townies. Rather,
      - we enable the identification of people are flying under the radar and question them. [In addition to ongoing scum hunting]

I think this is a valid tool that can be used to re-enforce scum hunting.

Thus,the summary post is a mechanism that *in theory should* enable us to identify suspicious person(s) to question further.
The corollary is that it may also help identify people whose attitudes are town motivated.

Ultimately, I plan to be an active participant in the town environment; I expect my actions to speak louder than words.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 03 2013 03:50 GMT
#195
On January 03 2013 12:34 cDgCorazon wrote:
Do you think it's something that only a townie would do? While we can certainly give Mocsta credit for keeping tabs on everyone, I wouldn't call it a town oriented move.

I welcome it, but it would be a null point on my opinion of you Mocsta.

@Corazon
I guess you didn't read my wall text... let me requote it for you.

On January 03 2013 12:11 Mocsta wrote:
Ultimately, I plan to be an active participant in the town environment; I expect my actions to speak louder than words.

Anyways, I don't want to waste further conversation on this.

My point was to highlight I plan to create these summary posts, not to ask for approval.
If there is constructive criticism of them after the first couple, I will open ears to discussion; however,
for the time-being, I am going to implement what is in my head - and see if it works.


Furthering matters, cDgCorazon, your a person who has a history for succumbing under pressure.

So I am voting for you for 2 reasons.

(1) I don't like your response.
On January 03 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
2) How would the mafia try to get us to mislynch a townie?

I'll save this answer for after more people have discussed it.

Why do you need to wait? What is the town motive behind this?

(2) You have started the discussion, but it has largely been useless so far [ Bet you recognise this one, sorry for the in-joke]

As for the way discussion REALLYstarts... someone throws down a vote.

##Vote: cDgCorazon
You have proven (in the past game) that you can actively provide new approaches to old ideas.
However, so far your posts have been a boring regurgitation of old content (of which you don't even fully address).
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
January 03 2013 04:48 GMT
#203
On January 03 2013 13:18 cDgCorazon wrote:
However, your early pressure is not characteristic of scum, so this does give off a town read to me. I will give you that. Although there's no need to be firing a warning shot so early when only a handful of people are posting (or even know that the game is started.)

(1) Its too early to be talking about town tells. In particular because
"only a handful of people are posting"


(2) Your overall response exhibits the calmness and reasoning of a townie, but on the other hand, your "pretend townie" mafia play has proven to be of a decent calibre.

People say a Vanilla Townie may be bored as they have no "power".

I disagree.

During the Day, VTs/Blues/Mafia are all equal: with one VOTE to cast. Each as valid as the next one.
The pressure of a lynch is nothing to laugh at, or throw recklessly. [This vote was not thrown recklessly]


Out of respect for your last game, I will continue to exercise my right: to treat you with caution.

Thus, the vote will remain.


[I am at risk of flooding the thread so will take a breather]
I hope someone from the USA shift uses this vote as a medium to engage more conversation with yourself.

I conclude with:
On January 03 2013 12:50 Mocsta wrote:
As for the way discussion REALLYstarts... someone throws down a vote.


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