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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis: On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @ WBG If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ? The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality. Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Regarding your cases: I rather like the vivax one. The quotes you laid out look like he's trying to jump on the bandwagon without looking bad. Also, voting someone because they liked something that grush said is... well... lol. I'm less convinced by the one on WBG. Hesitancy to lynch someone =/= scum. I think it was one of the newbie games you were in (where a bunch of townies were hesitant to jump on kush's scumslip) that should give you my thoughts here. Bugs play so far seems to be a general hesitancy to lynch someone, then being afk for a while, then coming back and being lost. It's a bit alarming, but I don't think it's damning by any measure. By contrast, vivax's mentality seems to be more "scummy" on his vote. He goes from a soft defense to being very sure and comfortable with his vote. That behavior IMO is more along the lines of scum-mentality. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I never said it was a good idea >> | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 13:34 Z-BosoN wrote: It's not just hesitancy to read someone. I feel you responded kinda fast and didn't really go over the case. I'm more interested in the subtleness in which he included adam in his lists, which is in complete contrast with the mindset that he disliked adam as a lynch target earlier on, especially without any occurrences in the thread to suggest this weird change. He also disappeared into a time that I presume would have been fairly risky for scum to participate in. It's rather hard in my position to understand such "subtlety" since I haven't been in the thread. I'll catch up, read his filter, and get back to you. My initial impressions are as previously stated though. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
1) Adam posts a case on Vivax shortly after dropping his "confrontation" with debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=24#463 Vivax is under some fire already, and it would be a really strange play for Adam to go after a hypothetical scumbuddy like this when there were plenty of other targets to chose from at this point in the game (Tunkeg, Jay, etc). Unless all these guys are scum, the Vivax choice makes very little sense if Vivax is scum. 2) He posted a dry-erase board picture of an "analysis web" of the Thrawn "incident" earlier in the game. That says try-hard townie to me. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Town d00ds Thrawn - Duh. debears - Duh. Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum. In addition, there are posts like this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=13#260 ...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum. Palmar - He's definitely capable of bussing his own, but he didn't even make an attempt to go for another target but Adam. Much different from what I saw of his scum-play in Rockband Mini anywho. Clarity - His posts just seem pretty townie overall. Solid logic, really patient and well-thought out reads. Palmar's video goes through his early-game pretty well. And there are gems like this: On December 11 2012 09:57 Clarity_nl wrote: WHAT THE FUCK I GIVE UP FUCK YOU HE MADE THE READS WITHOUT KNOWING HIS ALIGNMENT, HOW CAN HIS READS THAT HE MADE BEFORE READING HIS PM BE ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE Vivax - I explained my read on Vivax earlier... On December 12 2012 14:36 Hapahauli wrote: Around page 24 - leaning town on Vivax in spite of Z-Bo's case for two reasons. 1) Adam posts a case on Vivax shortly after dropping his "confrontation" with debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=24#463 Vivax is under some fire already, and it would be a really strange play for Adam to go after a hypothetical scumbuddy like this when there were plenty of other targets to chose from at this point in the game (Tunkeg, Jay, etc). Unless all these guys are scum, the Vivax choice makes very little sense if Vivax is scum. 2) He posted a dry-erase board picture of an "analysis web" of the Thrawn "incident" earlier in the game. That says try-hard townie to me. His voting actions are a bit weird (being convinced to vote Adam by Grush is quite sketch), but I can see a town thought-process of just wanting to not no-lynch. marv - Marv voting Adam early (2nd?) doesn't strike me as a scum move. Marv is capable of bussing plays, but a D1 bus of adam with plenty of other lynch options seems like a bit of a stretch. A possibility for sure, but not too likely methinks. green - He hasn't done much, but his vote on Adam gave me a town feel. On December 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Adam Baaaaaaahhhhh. He doesn't attempt to glorify it or justify it - he's candid about the whole thing, and that strikes me as town. Null Reads Jay - He seems like a pretty easy mislynch as town in his other games. He's not done much allignment-indicative in my eyes. Maaaaybe some townie points for being the hammer-vote on Adam, but that's about it. Tunkeg - Another wishy-washy player from what I've seen of his meta. I do like his "martyr" post quite a bit, because based on his general "mentality" as a player, I feel it's not a type of post that a player like him would make as a scum. Though I haven't seen a scum-game that he's played, which is why I'm a bit more hesitant. Maybe slightly townie, but nothing like the guys above. Grush - He's been on Adam from the get-go, and I'm unsure what to think of it. That would be a town-tell for most players, but this is Grush, and part of me thinks that he has a little extra info. On December 12 2012 06:25 grush57 wrote: That's pretty reasonable. I'm a bit cautious of Bluelightz because he is a vet. Jay strikes me as a foolish townie and Tunk is probably a noobie. I want to vote Adam because he is reminding me of his scum play. Like this post... seems... too... reasonable for Grush? This is probably crazy on my part, but having seen him play Mafia LVII, his nonsensical town play there is pretty fresh in my mind. Z-Boson - His play is not alignment indicative so far. He's capable of bombing the big cases as town or scum. What will be telling in the future is if he can maintain good logic in making those cases. Scumreads Bluelightz - I realize he's lynch bait (and I tunnel'd him to death when he was town in Rockband), but in this game, I find his play lines up real neat with a scum agenda. In his opening post, he spreads suspicion on four different players: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=12#238 He posts a bunch after that, but never follows up on any of the suspicions he pushed in that thread. Notably, he never pushes the guy whom he put his vote on (jay). His vote on Adam also feels like a bus vote, a nice little agreeable and uncontroversial vote when the bandwagon is gaining steam. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=33#648 WBG - I get very scared when a vet gives me no reason to think he's town, and this seems to be the case with WBG. He has a case on a "lynch-bait" player in Tunkeg, but that's about it. His play is very "clean," and as the leader of one of the main counter-wagons to the Adam lynch (and given that I have no reason to think Tunkeg is scum at this point), I'm inclined to think WBG is scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Adam Baaaaaaahhhhh. He doesn't attempt to glorify it or justify it - he's candid about the whole thing, and that strikes me as town. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Thoughts? Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum. In addition, there are posts like this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=13#260 ...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 17:19 thrawn2112 wrote: Hapa: I don't understand why I am "duh town" status... people have been calling me town ever since my incident at the start (which I can understand) but they've continued to do so without talking about anything else I've been doing... can you elaborate on your read? Yeah sure thing - the whole "miller" thing just reads like a really misguided gambit play (townie). In addition, I just can't see you pulling that as scum, given your (our) scumgame in Mario Mini. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 17:25 thrawn2112 wrote: I'm not convinced. He made some wishy washy commitments to the adam lynch that he didn't follow through on and I disagree with your read on how attention whoring or suicidal djo was being. He was mostly being ignored with all of his attempts to get a different lynch going. In looney he bussed his scumbud the entire game and argued against the main lynches because he was being ignored and was able to get away with it. Yeah I understand he was being ignored, but you don't post stuff like this and assume you will be ignored: On December 12 2012 08:06 Djodref wrote: Anyone up for a counter bandwagon on jay ? ##Unvote ##Vote Jay On December 12 2012 08:43 Djodref wrote: I'll switch back my vote to Tunkeg if you guys change your mind last minute for the time I'm taking a shower ! ##Unvote ##Vote Tunkeg On December 12 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote: And, seriously guys, you still prefer to lynch Adam to jay after Adam's latest post ? Counter wagon ! GO GO GO ! ##Unvote ##Vote jay Mind you all of this within 1-2 hours of the lynch, and when it was clear that Adam was going to hang. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 17:32 Tunkeg wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: All caught up! Here's the read dump: Town d00ds Thrawn - Duh. debears - Duh. Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum. In addition, there are posts like this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=13#260 ...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum. Palmar - He's definitely capable of bussing his own, but he didn't even make an attempt to go for another target but Adam. Much different from what I saw of his scum-play in Rockband Mini anywho. Clarity - His posts just seem pretty townie overall. Solid logic, really patient and well-thought out reads. Palmar's video goes through his early-game pretty well. And there are gems like this: Vivax - I explained my read on Vivax earlier... His voting actions are a bit weird (being convinced to vote Adam by Grush is quite sketch), but I can see a town thought-process of just wanting to not no-lynch. marv - Marv voting Adam early (2nd?) doesn't strike me as a scum move. Marv is capable of bussing plays, but a D1 bus of adam with plenty of other lynch options seems like a bit of a stretch. A possibility for sure, but not too likely methinks. green - He hasn't done much, but his vote on Adam gave me a town feel. He doesn't attempt to glorify it or justify it - he's candid about the whole thing, and that strikes me as town. Null Reads Jay - He seems like a pretty easy mislynch as town in his other games. He's not done much allignment-indicative in my eyes. Maaaaybe some townie points for being the hammer-vote on Adam, but that's about it. Tunkeg - Another wishy-washy player from what I've seen of his meta. I do like his "martyr" post quite a bit, because based on his general "mentality" as a player, I feel it's not a type of post that a player like him would make as a scum. Though I haven't seen a scum-game that he's played, which is why I'm a bit more hesitant. Maybe slightly townie, but nothing like the guys above. Grush - He's been on Adam from the get-go, and I'm unsure what to think of it. That would be a town-tell for most players, but this is Grush, and part of me thinks that he has a little extra info. Like this post... seems... too... reasonable for Grush? This is probably crazy on my part, but having seen him play Mafia LVII, his nonsensical town play there is pretty fresh in my mind. Z-Boson - His play is not alignment indicative so far. He's capable of bombing the big cases as town or scum. What will be telling in the future is if he can maintain good logic in making those cases. Scumreads Bluelightz - I realize he's lynch bait (and I tunnel'd him to death when he was town in Rockband), but in this game, I find his play lines up real neat with a scum agenda. In his opening post, he spreads suspicion on four different players: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=12#238 He posts a bunch after that, but never follows up on any of the suspicions he pushed in that thread. Notably, he never pushes the guy whom he put his vote on (jay). His vote on Adam also feels like a bus vote, a nice little agreeable and uncontroversial vote when the bandwagon is gaining steam. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=33#648 WBG - I get very scared when a vet gives me no reason to think he's town, and this seems to be the case with WBG. He has a case on a "lynch-bait" player in Tunkeg, but that's about it. His play is very "clean," and as the leader of one of the main counter-wagons to the Adam lynch (and given that I have no reason to think Tunkeg is scum at this point), I'm inclined to think WBG is scum. WTF do you know about my meta? Have me and you ever played a game? Have you read through my games after being replaced in (while you just now have been able to read up on this game)? Also you say my meta is wishy washy, lol. Are you sure you haven't skimmed through the scum QT and have misunderstood what they wrote about my meta? Yes I skimmed a couple of your games. Whaddya think I"ve been doing for the last few hours? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 17:37 Tunkeg wrote: I thought you would be reading up on this game. A couple of hours to read up on this game and knowing all about my meta though is pretty impressive stuff. Unless you are just full of shit... Woah woah buddy, I never claimed to be a meta-expert on you or something. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 12 2012 17:40 thrawn2112 wrote: It's that your opinion on tunkeg seems too well informed considering that you just replaced in That seems like a pretty big jump considering what I posted. I have a null read on him after all. Though him flying off the handle about something that strikes me as odd considering the material that I posted. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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