EPTAnd:
/in as a replacement
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIII
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
And: /in as a replacement | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Then, /in as a replacement  . | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
/out And: /obs? While it would be fun to play even as a replacement, I see a great learning opportunity from /obsing if hosts and veterans are there to commentate on play as has been mentioned. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
/in, and: /unobs, if you'll have me. But that means you'd have to remake obs-QT, which would be kind of a pain... However, I've noticed that not everyone is going to stay, so I thought I'd offer to help get the ball rolling on this. All that being said, if you'd rather I stay obsed I understand. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
. It's an honor to play with all of you again.Regarding the proposed "lurker lynch" policy: So here's some policy talk from one of the "new guys." Day one lurker lynching is a policy I used to favor, but no longer. It can really limit our ability to put pressure on people now, meaning less information later. Day one may feel useless, as from what I've seen of the statistics it's easy to mislynch day one. But the information gained today from others can be referenced all game. Behavioral patterns become important as the game progresses, and that extra day of information gained from pressuring early is priceless. Here's to hoping that there won't be like 3+ lurkers this game... -_- | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On August 09 2012 10:24 Hapahauli wrote: + Show Spoiler + @ Axero: Welcome to the game! On August 09 2012 10:04 Axero wrote: I agree with Hapa's policy of not blindly lynching due to high activity. I'm torn on the lurking policy, just because I'd feel bad if I accidentally voted for a fellow townie; but we must do what we must do to save our homes! I'm certainly not suggesting picking a random lurker, rather, focusing on lurkers as targets of early game pressure. I'd be very happy taking lynching a scummy lurker D1 - at best, we lynch a mafia, and at worst, we lynch someone who isn't contributing to the scumhunt (barring a strong scum-read on another type of player of course). Thoughts? @ GoodKarma: Welcome from observer-land! As I mentioned to Axero, I'm more suggesting a policy of pressuring lurkers aggressively from the start. Furthermore, we've seen several vocal townies in recent games get lynched for being controversial (Golbat and Obvious in Newbie XXI and XXII) - keeping our focus away from extremely active players will help us avoid horrible mislynches like those (barring a scum-sclip from an active player of course). I don't think this policy will narrow our focus in a negative way. Thoughts? If you can actively pressure lurkers while following your scum reads on others then I see no problem with that. But from my experience only pressuring lurkers can limit discussion too much to really be a good policy. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On August 09 2012 11:24 Hapahauli wrote: + Show Spoiler + @ Kronen: Welcome to your first game! Never be afraid to post, we won't bite (unless we think you're mafia of course). To get some conversation going, what are your thoughts on the policy I quoted in the first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=21#409 Also, were you following the game at all before we reset? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the first day of play @ Goodkarma: That sounds fair - are there any policies/directions on Day 1 that you find effective? Treat day 1 like you would days 2, 3, 4, and so on... Make cases based on scum reads first, and only consider "policy lurker lynching" second. I suppose you could call it the "treat day one like any other day" policy. As a side-note, I'm betting we don't have many lurkers anyway. We are very fortunate to have had this game restarted, as it's given lurkers a chance to weed themselves out from playing . | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Sideni: One scum-read I currently have on him is mistaking the name of the person who was getting married (Kronen). This was mentioned before, but I feel it is an important point. If you're struggling to read and write in English to the point of scrutinizing every word, how can you make this kind of mistake of names? This fits the profile of an unconcerned scum combing the thread before posting. It may not seem big, but in my last game (NMM XXII) the last scum we caught made this same mistake. I believe it's been said before, and I too agree that his posts are a bit fluffy. Especially considering that if writing every English word is meticulous, I would expect his posts to generally be very concise and succinct. Instead, we've seen posts like this one: On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote: Well, I either answer to his post saying that I don't even care defending myself or I explain myself (just as I did) or I just don't answer... What is the smartest choice in your opinion ? I would gladly sacrifice myself to turn green to reveal that he's suspicious. However, I don't think it's smart  If I just say that I don't care, it just feels to me that I don't pay attention to all details =/ If I don't answer, I'm being a lurker and this is bad for my party ! Gotta keep talking and if the talking can lead to something, then it's perfect ! :D So, last choice, I decided to explain myself. There's nothing wrong about explaining yourself ever !  Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all ! Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Two things about this post: the first is I have no idea why a orange or grapefruit metaphor was necessary, or even helpful. The only thing it serves to do, in my opinion, is distract from the rest of the post with a bit of fluff (a bit ironic for a post defending against making fluffy posts). Perhaps Sideni indeed does struggle with the English language, but some of his fluffy posts have indicated to me that it could plausibly be a scum-motivated excuse. The second thing: "Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD" There is no town-motivated reason whatsoever for making this statement. It's basically saying, "I don't know what I'm doing. Don't listen to me." This statement feels very scum-motivated, as it's a great statement to make if you're trying to keep your head low. Another quote that gives me a scum read on Sideni: On August 10 2012 08:41 Sideni wrote: Taking note of that ! I just don't want a mislynch for town xD It feels like he's trying a little too hard here to show he's pro-town. Why does something this obvious need to be said? This quote feels scum-motivated to me. For the reasons I've mentioned above: ##FoS: Sideni Axero: Axero's mentioned on more than one occasion that this is his first game. Describing noobiness is a common scum trait, as it allows them to discredit themselves and have people not take them as seriously, or read as much into their cases for mislynches as they should be. He then goes on to describe how he plans to post without reading the thread.: On August 10 2012 09:56 Axero wrote: Haha, no I wasn't planning on lurking. I was actually going to go ahead with my plans without checking the forum at all, but someone coaching me suggested i still check. You should never post without reading first. This is strongly anti-town play. Combined with your semi-lurky behavior, you're looking scummy to me.: ##FoS: Axero | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Regarding NMM XXII: I presented the case point of mistaking names in my voting post against Alan near the very end of the game. The relevant portion of that post is below: On August 08 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: -snip- He also seems to not be very invested in the game, as he has mistaken names in making case points on two separate occasions. This could be true as scum or town, but he has posted enough in my opinion that this feels more likely to be a mistake made by scum, with no interest in real scum-hunting, quickly trying to say enough to get by. -snip- I look forward to seeing what Alan has to say about my case points. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Sideni: His posts have continued to be long and flowery. I'm now convinced that his "bad at English" excuse is likely scum-motivated. He has demonstrated more than enough command of the English language to play this game, to the point that I don't understand why as town he would even bring it up. He has been focusing a lot of his posting tunneling Dandel Ion. Then he changes immediately to Lvdr when it's brought up that his problems with Dandel Ion seem to be in large part from his stance on Lvdr.: On August 11 2012 03:30 Sideni wrote: @Hapahauli : I actually haven't thought about that ! Your logic makes complete sense to me and I now see the contradiction in voting for Dandel Ion ! The logic behind it would then be that we first go with Mkfuba's case on Lvdr and from there, we can tell if my case is good. Thanks for making me understand myself, I'm changing my vote ! xD @Lvdr : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#616 point 1 : As you know, we are 9 towns and there are 3 mafia. 6 of everbody talked about Mkfuba's case. Assuming that you are mafia I would assume that mafia players wouldn't comment on the case or at least, they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen. So, my guess is that all 6 people who commented are town and lurkers could be town as well. point 2 : The thing is that YourHarry, before Dandel Ion comments, DOESN'T behave like a scum ! point 3 : I want you to explain me how do I seem to lack a basic mafia strategy ? I mean, why would we sacrifice a town to get information when we can lynch someone who looks scummy ?! ##unvote Dandel Ion ##FOS Dandel Ion ##vote Lvdr He's like: "Hmmm. I guess you're right. What I'm doing doesn't make sense. Instead of clearly explaining my motives let me fix that." I am not convinced there weren't other reasons for him voting Dandel Ion over Lvdr. He should have come out and say what they were before switching his vote. This feels like a move that was made to take suspicion away from himself by making his voting pattern more consistent with his arguments. His quickness to flip his vote when called out for inconsistency of action feels scummy to me. Combined with the points of my prior case against him, which are spoilered below, he is my scummiest read right now, and has earned my vote.: ##Vote: Sideni My earlier case against him (and Axero too): + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 13:56 goodkarma wrote: I have read through everyone's filters, and have a few case points on who I see as most scummy right now: Sideni: One scum-read I currently have on him is mistaking the name of the person who was getting married (Kronen). This was mentioned before, but I feel it is an important point. If you're struggling to read and write in English to the point of scrutinizing every word, how can you make this kind of mistake of names? This fits the profile of an unconcerned scum combing the thread before posting. It may not seem big, but in my last game (NMM XXII) the last scum we caught made this same mistake. I believe it's been said before, and I too agree that his posts are a bit fluffy. Especially considering that if writing every English word is meticulous, I would expect his posts to generally be very concise and succinct. Instead, we've seen posts like this one: Two things about this post: the first is I have no idea why a orange or grapefruit metaphor was necessary, or even helpful. The only thing it serves to do, in my opinion, is distract from the rest of the post with a bit of fluff (a bit ironic for a post defending against making fluffy posts). Perhaps Sideni indeed does struggle with the English language, but some of his fluffy posts have indicated to me that it could plausibly be a scum-motivated excuse. The second thing: "Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD" There is no town-motivated reason whatsoever for making this statement. It's basically saying, "I don't know what I'm doing. Don't listen to me." This statement feels very scum-motivated, as it's a great statement to make if you're trying to keep your head low. Another quote that gives me a scum read on Sideni: It feels like he's trying a little too hard here to show he's pro-town. Why does something this obvious need to be said? This quote feels scum-motivated to me. For the reasons I've mentioned above: ##FoS: Sideni Axero: Axero's mentioned on more than one occasion that this is his first game. Describing noobiness is a common scum trait, as it allows them to discredit themselves and have people not take them as seriously, or read as much into their cases for mislynches as they should be. He then goes on to describe how he plans to post without reading the thread.: You should never post without reading first. This is strongly anti-town play. Combined with your semi-lurky behavior, you're looking scummy to me.: ##FoS: Axero Axero: Axero's most recent actions have not gone unnoticed by me. Unfortunately, I have seen really bad townie lurkers before + Show Spoiler + (I know he's posted a lot of one-liners today, but until he contributes his first post of substance I consider him a lurker) First, his mistaking of names for Kronen's wedding. I still believe that mistaking names is a scum tell, as I have explained before in my case against Sideni. Second, posting nonsense filler like this: On August 11 2012 01:46 Axero wrote: EBWOP: Spooning required, clothes optional. This is spam. It adds no content to the thread and drowns out valid arguments which are critical for us to see so close to the voting deadline. Axero is definitely looking scummier than he did before. But I'm not ready to rule out his actions as being those of a bad townie yet. | ||
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