EPT/in
DBZ Mini Mafia
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heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
Is the power level increase measured at the start of each hour or from the moment of the vote? Will the total power level accumulated on the lynched target be revealed upon the lynch? Can you still defend someone? If so, does it count as your vote? I don't know if I'm crazy, but I could have sworn this mechanic was in the previous original post. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: I think that this is probably the best time to take a moment to discuss the lynching mechanics present in this game. To me, it seems like a somewhat "standard" weighted voting system, but with the caveat that the mechanics are designed to punish last minute vote switching. That's a very important note to make: the longer we spend trying to lynch a single person, the harder it becomes to lynch anyone else. This kind of mechanic can become very important very quickly. One such situation come immediately to mind. For instance: the Town has decided to lynch someone, while a small subset disagree and vote to lynch someone else. If the town decides to pull their votes, suddenly the small subset controls the towns lynch. Because of this, I believe that it's important to consider both who we are and aren't lynching because of the voteswitch. Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch. Because of this, I would propose two policies for the town. First of all, pulling votes from a lynch candidate must be done as a block. Voting shenanigans similar to what's been going on Day 1 in Bureaucracy Mafia is simply unacceptable in this game. As a town, we must work together to control the lynch, and that involves coordinating our voting. Secondly, post your Base Power Level (BPL), Power Level Cap (PLC), and Power/Hour (PHr) every time you vote. This will allow the town to identify how many votes are on a candidate at any point in time, and help us in identifying if a voteswitch is practical. I really don't think we should be claiming our power level bases and caps. Quite frankly there is no real reason to do so at this point in time. You suggest that "Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch." This is exactly the situation we want to avoid as town. The minority is essentially holding the majority in hostage. With no plan or policy, if the majority wants to switch their vote, it's somewhat implied that the vote change is meaningless if there is a small subset who has been building Power. The solution to this is NOT to just keep your vote on a target whom you no longer hold conviction. Hiro's plan makes complete sense to me and I fully support it. Essentially, we are pretending there are no Power Levels. Why? Because it's a factor we cannot really control and it hinders a majority lynch. We all vote normally and we are all scum hunting as we normally would. This plan HELPS us scum hunt because it allows to put real pressure in the form of a vote that is actually meaningful late in the day. 1 hour before lynch deadline, we all agree to switch votes to whomever has the most votes. Ensuring that the person who the MAJORITY already voted for is actually lynched. There is no kingmaker here, only the insurance that whoever the majority wants, the majority gets. I think it's important to iterate that his plan does not take into effect until the very last hour or minutes of the lynch. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote: Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything... You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum. And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On July 25 2012 05:01 Sinensis wrote: I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth. Oh so it was an issue of not knowing the "lore". Only Captain Ginyu Jeice Burter Recoome Guldo are in the Ginyu Force. Scum know their own fake claims and thus each others. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
Btw, your vote is just as bad. On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims. A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately. @Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP. That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid. I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote. #1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless. #2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum. That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2. Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early. ##Vote: Sinensis I'm gonna focus more your reasonings than your vote itself. Honestly it's a bad vote based solely off a bad vote. When is a random vote EVER BETTER than a case even if its based off of flimsy day 1 data? There's no accountability. The success of day 1, I would argue, does not rest upon a successful lynch. You're right; we are more likely to mislynch than actually manage to kill scum. If you go into day 1 thinking that the end result of the lynch is the most important thing to day 1 you'll go nowhere. Planning to vote randomly because of it, day 1, will get you nowhere. Information is inevitable but only if you try to pursue scum (even if it may be flawed). Information lynches don't just magically happen to occur. It's there because of analysis and discussion about the lynch target, not everyone deciding to randomly vote because it's the same odds. @Ghost: Do you still disagree with the plan? | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
There are essentially 4 lurkers: grush57, Fulla, Kenpachi, MajuGarzett. I was considering voting for one of them, but there's simply no information on them. grush57 - is useless and tends to lurk no matter his alignment. Possible modkill anyways. Kenpachi - I don't think a veteran like him would choose to purposefully lurk through all of day 1. Reserve judgment. Fulla - despite his initial enthusiasm, not a single post. Don't know what to think. Possible modkill anyways. MajuGarzett - has one question. I'm frankly not seeing the connection between this single action here and his play from the other game. Ghost you said it in your post, his absence in the thread is a NULL TELL. Null tell for all of them. A better target for me is TheMichael. This is my impression: Sinensis is a slightly confused, overeager townie. Sinensis' plan is a flop and his vote on ghost is honestly irrational and based on fluff. In other words, he's the perfect easy target for scum. Sinensis was the easiest target, just really setting himself up at that point in the game. TheMichael jumps on him immediately with a counter vote. I've tried to prod him on his one real post of substance, and frankly I don't like his response. He doesn't care who dies and implies that he's really really weak in Power Level. He is the most suspicious one to me so far, and I'll be putting my vote on him. ##Vote: TheMichael | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
In regards to TheMichael, the issue isn't the fact that he placed a random vote on someone. In fact, I would argue that his vote is NOT random at all. He specifically targeted Sinensis right after Sinensis makes a hasty vote on Ghost. I feel like he's jumping on the easy townie. Of course, I could be misreading it, but who is the better alternative here in that case? | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard. I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt? The bolded statement is exactly the same reason I'm voting for TheMichael, to a tee. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
This is Sinensis' post: On July 25 2012 04:35 Sinensis wrote: My plan is rubbish and will never work now that I know the actual rules. However, I have spotted scum, they are ghost_403. Reason: His initial post is criticizing my plan for reasons that aren't actually true. He says "someone didn't read the OP," when in reality there was nothing in the OP that said my plan couldn't work. The reason my plan will not work is not answered until iGrok posts this later in the thread: He is mimicking HiroPro's criticism that I didn't read the OP, when in fact I did and thoroughly. Nothing in the OP says that blue roles have access to fake claims. Especially not the DBZ rules, which are what we are using. The truth is ghost_403 was afraid of my plan, because he is a defender of Earth. So I'm voting for him. ##vote: ghost_403 This is michaelthe's post 17 minutes later: On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims. A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately. @Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP. That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid. I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote. #1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless. #2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum. That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2. Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early. ##Vote: Sinensis It seems to me that he is calling out the logic (or lack thereof) from Sinensis' post and uses it as his justification for his vote on.... Sinensis. At the end he even states that he'll "otherwise, I will be..." voting randomly implying he hasn't done so yet. Or are you telling me that the he manages to randomly roll the one person he criticizes in his post? | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
Yeah sorry about getting your name wrong, but you must understand that it's skeptical for me that in the very same post you say exactly why Sinensis is wrong, you also vote for him leading me to believe there was a connection to your vote and not randomness. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
I'm willing to see that my way of looking at your day 1 actions was wrong. But you can hardly call us out for bad town play and lack of an information lynch, when you yourself have done nothing at all to really contribute day 1. I would really like to hear your reads and not act like some third party observer. You are a part of this town too. @Sinensis Why why why would you not claim in that situation? You literally ignored your only ability this game. Also, you seem zealous to avenge your partner but don't expect every single mafia to be neatly tied up in a box among the group that voted for Maju. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On July 26 2012 08:43 MajuGarzett wrote: Don't lynch Sinensis, he's town. I have to go now and I'll probably die so gg everyone. And Michael, do you have no other defence than "town is shitty"? You should be lynched for your attitude even if you aren't scum. Thus, Sinensis is his partner and I'm assuming reciprocal roles. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
Fulla has two posts. On July 26 2012 04:08 Fulla wrote: Guys sorry, I kept looking for the Samurai thread, I thought it must have been postponed and temporarily hidden or something. Just found out it's this and got renamed. In future PM please!!!! Since you get stronger from lynching I might as well lynch someone for now. Cancel or change later. ##Vote: Kenpachi Please PM people who haven't made a post yet? They might not have noticed the rename Post #1: A vote with no justification or reads. Just simply a name. Excuses himself by saying he can always change later, but wants a name down now to build power. Gives absolutely no weigh in to the other lynches gaining more power (specifically Maju) later and does not take off his vote. On July 26 2012 05:34 Fulla wrote: Kenpachi was the first 1 to reply, but since then has said nothing. What does he have to say? Post #2: When challenged to reinforce his vote and thoughts on Kenpachi, he deflects his own lack of any analysis or reads and only offers that Kenpachi has also nothing. His biggest fault is not providing any of his own insight, reads, or opinions on the other lynch targets after he's realized the game's started. When pressured he deflects and uses Zenpachi as a shield. In MTG Mafia, he is a townie. In the early game, he admits he's new but realizes it's imperative for a townie to keep contributing and steadily provide more input. At the very least he's agreeing and disagreeing with the current reads even if he has nothing new. In this game, he has done neither. He has hidden behind Zenpachi's lack of posts to excuse his own lack of posts and he doesn't seem to have the same townie mindset in this game. His townie beliefs in the previous game and his actions in this game do not coincide. ##Vote: Fulla | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
## TIMEFREEZE All power levels will not increase except for me. It's OBVIOUS that the remaining scum are michaelthe, BioSC, and either S0lstice or Mattchew. Whoever is lying. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
I also assumed mattchew knew DBZ lore. After he used the kamehameha, I was laughing so hard when he still tried to fake claim as Dodoria. It was an entertaining game at the very least. | ||
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