EPTMr. Wiggles Mini Mafia I
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
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Adam4167
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The other games were invite/experienced only. | ||
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Adam4167
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 I concur that lynching all liars is a no-brainer. Lying to the town, even with the best intentions at heart, is just plain stupid. For example, claiming a blue role as a vanilla might seem like a great idea (to draw role blocks or night shots) but when you cant produce the powers that you claim to have, you'll waste an entire day cycle with the town hanging you, or worse, a blue that counter-claims you. Just don't do it. Lynching lurkers is a different beast. I was wholly against lynching lurkers at the beginning of Student Mafia, but as the game drew on, I couldn't help but wonder if maybe one of the reds was hiding out among them. Turns out, there was. For that reason, hanging a lurker can sometimes hit gold, and we should consider hanging a lurker if no obvious scums present themselves. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 23 2011 13:03 Misder wrote: This is usually how it works imo. Lynch All Liars is a great policy lynch. Lynch All Lurkers also great, except that there are usually too many lurkers to lynch all of them. Without these policy lynches, mafia can get out in too many situations. Also, I've never played with any of you guys, so if you guys could link me to any games you guys played recently, that would be nice. I'm a bit too lazy to look stuff up right now. This towns going to need everyone pulling their weight if we're going to catch the scums. Dont be lazy. That said, I'm a nice guy. So heres a game that involves a few of the same players: Student Mafia | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 23 2011 13:58 GiygaS wrote: I used to agree with LaL, but now it seems like a very shaky idea to me. What if we have a blue that lies to save himself? What if we have a green that's trying a gambit to draw out mafia? What if we have someone lie about their role to generate town discussion, later revealing they lied. I agree that LaL could be used on petty lies like excuses that contradict something someone has said before, but I disagree with Lynch ALL Liars. Lynch all Lurkers is also terrible, as 100% of the time, when you lynch a lurker, a mafia member or the mafia as a whole will stray it to be a town member. This rule is basically asking to kill a townie. I'm going to conclude with my general opinion on policies in general : No. Every single policy on, "he did this, *lists policy*, time to lynch him" is stupid, plain and simple. Let's get smarter and start playing this game right, with case-by-case analysis. The problem with people lying is that it generates confusion. Confusion leads to mislynches and a shitty atmosphere for finding scum because it can be hard to tell who's blue and lying to keep themselves alive and who's red and lying to keep themselves alive. From the observers perspective, these will look the same! So by all of us agreeing to not lie, the only ones left lying will be the people who are trying to encourage confusion (yep, dem reds). Giygas, how do you suggest we deal with lurkers if not by hanging them? Giving them a free pass because "they might be town" is just giving the scum team permission to hide among the inactives and pick us off one-by-one each night. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 23 2011 13:35 sephirotharg wrote: For myself, I've never played mafia here on TL, but I've played a small amount on some other forums. I'm not skilled, but it's still fun As for policy lynches, I'm against Lynch All Liars, only because it tends to lead to players narrowing their focuses too much - lynching someone, even if they are a liar, may not be the best idea for the town. And Lynch All Lurkers is also a bad idea, not the least because at times I am one . Same reason as before, with the added rationale that life gets in the way sometimes - papers, work, family and such all happen, and sometimes you can't devote the time necessary.With that said, doing some estimation, worst case scenario (assuming bad lynches and vig kills, with one vig, as well as all mafia kills), we have until day 3 to flip a red. Keeping that in mind, what say the people about a day 1 lynch? Your first post comes across as timid and making excuses for further down the track. Saying “I’m not skilled” only serves to devalue your opinion, which is something that no townie wants to do. It is however something that mafia wants to do, if he plans on flying under the radar. Your problem with lynching all liars is that it ‘narrows town focus’ too much. I disagree; someone caught lying to the town deserves all the scrutiny they get. I feel as though you are giving yourself an out in the event that you are caught lying later on. Lastly, your point on lurkers is just flat out questionable. If you didn’t have the time to devote to playing this game, then why did you sign up? As you can tell, there are several people who missed out that want your spot. You finish by tacking on some napkin math about how many days we have before lylo, which is unnecessary on page 4 when the game started on page 3. Its entirely fluff, discussing worst-case scenario’s on the first day is pointless and only serves as a distraction from us doing our jobs, catching scum. On December 24 2011 03:25 sephirotharg wrote: Well, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen faster. Shraft, what do you want me to say? I merely made a comment based on my tendencies - if anything, explicitly stating how I play is pro-town. Add to my case the fact that I've already acted pro-town, in generating discussion with the last part of my first post, and I'm not sure how you can justify voting for me. On December 24 2011 03:31 sephirotharg wrote: That's all well and good - I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. In general, lurking isn't optimal play, not for town at any rate. That said, you didn't actually provide any reason to vote for me here. You responded to my post, but gave no rationale as to why you placed your vote on me. Please do everyone the favor of explaining your actions. Your second and third posts are also causes for concern. In your second post you state “if anything, explicitly stating how I play is pro-town” in response to Shraft prodding you about your lurking intentions. Then in your next post, 6 minutes later, you say, “In general, lurking isn’t optimal play, not for town at any rate”. This just screams inconsistent. You claim your play style is pro-town, and then dismiss your play style as not optimal for town only 6 minutes later. On December 24 2011 03:56 sephirotharg wrote: RE: Giygas This is a game of circles within circles son, and you'd best step to that right quick. Weird accent aside, I'm merely stating that I find you, Dirkzor, and Shraft rather suspicious for voting so early and pushing hard. I think it's rather obvious why I wrote "the thing about lurking" - to generate some discussion, allowing scum to reveal themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the three of you flips red - but we'll see. After demeaning Giygas by implying that you know something he doesn’t (interesting tactic for someone claiming to be “unskilled” in their first post), you claim that you think it’s ‘rather obvious’ as to why you are doing what you are doing. This just screams cop-out, you weren’t expecting all the heat you’re getting from your first few posts and now you are trying to rationalise it all as ‘generating discussion’. On December 24 2011 07:06 sephirotharg wrote: @ Grack It's not something I consciously decide at the beginning of the game; it arises mainly due to circumstances and whatnot - for example, in about an hour or so I'll be gone until late tonight, so don't expect much from me later on. I'll be around for the lynch deadline, though, and I intend to be active in the game. I've kept this thread open and refreshing since day 1 started. @ Shraft I'm glad that I'm not the only one playing subtly. So far, most people are playing their cards close to their chest, so to speak. When I'm active, I play more fast and loose. In your last post (as of the time of writing this) you announce your intentions to return to lurking until near the deadline so ‘don’t expect much form me later on’, so… you don’t plan on defending yourself after all of this? Your message to Shraft: “I’m glad I’m not the only one playing subtly” again just stinks of cop-out. Now that the PBP is over, I’m just going to be honest. You claim unskilled and then act like you are ‘laying scum traps’ by being subtle. You announce your intentions to lurk, which does nothing to help this town. Your play has been nothing but anti-town since your first post. Don’t lurk, get back here and EXPLAIN your actions. **And now that I’ve refreshed the thread, you’ve voted for yourself… AND edited “contradictory statements” out of one of your posts. I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the shoe fits here. ##Vote sephirotharg | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 24 2011 08:28 sephirotharg wrote: I'll answer the criticisms leveled at me once a mod/host rules on my editing my post, assuming I'm still in the game. I'd rather not be at this point, though. On December 21 2011 08:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. By the wording of the rules, you'll receive a warning. Don't just give up, your team probably wouldn't appreciate it. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 24 2011 09:47 Misder wrote: The sephirotharg bandwagon is pretty stupid imo. I think it's pretty clear that he's noobtelling. ##Vote: jaybrundage Although early, not saying anything really in his two posts. Also seems to want to jump on the easy bandwagon. Compared to his posts in Student Mafia, pretty similar style. You think the 'wagon' on sephriotharg is stupid? He shows a lot of the same characteristics that you did in TL XXX. Ver even used you as an example of a 'newbie mafia' in his analysis of XXX. Go back and reread his posts, or read my analysis of him. He comes in very meek, posts a bunch of fluff, gets attacked by half the town (and rightly so!) then goes back into lurker mode when hes asked to explain his behavior. Why are you defending him? JB, you should know better then to sheepvote. | ||
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Adam4167
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Adam4167
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Who would make a better lynch than you, and why? I'm going to sit here now and read through this block of text. | ||
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Adam4167
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On December 25 2011 08:01 Dirkzor wrote: Right now I don't know who I find the most scummiest/towniest, jay or seph. I want them both to hang - atleast to get info. What bothers me is that a lot of people don't join the discussion. If both Jay and Seph flips town we have very little to work with. Only me, misder, cyber, seph and jay are a part of this. I hope this isn't what we can expect from everyone later in the game =( We have to be forgiving of timezone differences Dirk. When I went to sleep last night, the thread had stalled with me asking Seph for his reads and him saying he had grown weary of his defense. Now that I am awake again, Ill be present to discuss for the next 12-14 hours as much as I am able. At face value I found sephiroths earlier posts to be very scummy, as my analysis pointed out, then his defense was somewhat underwhelming but not lacking in effort. I am now going to re-read the entire thread, and try to decide who i find scummier between him and jay. A switch to jay at this point may prove difficult, unless activity in the thread increases towards the lynch deadline. That said, last minute switches rarely prove beneficial for towns and generally just add to the confusion. | ||
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Adam4167
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This serves as a harsh reminder to all of us. Laying a 'trap', like sephirotharg did was misguided and clearly not very well thought out. It only caused confusion where there shouldn't have been. Lets not try to get fancy with 'traps', and return to some basics - good analysis and logic. A mislynch is a setback, but it is recoverable if we all just play sensibly and intelligently. At least he gave us something to work with, we now know his reads are unbiased. Lets go back, read everything and make informed choices on Day 2. In some games its suggested that the town should shut down in the night phase and not post, I recommend we do not do this. Day 1 was very centered around sephiroth and as a result, very little discussion on anyone else came up, so we need to generate more content to analyze to get off on the right foot for day 2. | ||
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Adam4167
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Hyshes - His filter does not give much to work with, only 4 posts, with one being the /in post. All of his posts consist of one or two lines, thus very lacking in content. This post in particular has me worried. Hyshes says “I’m not gonna allow him to screw around here a bit and then get away with it”. It feels as though hyshes is more interested in punishing sephirotharg for his bad play, rather than hanging him because he believes he’s scum. Hyshes, I am understanding that you subbed into this game late, and that it is also Christmas, but please, start posting more posts with actual content and lurking less. | ||
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Adam4167
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On December 26 2011 06:59 hyshes wrote: Noobs don't point out there mistakes. Someone else does this for them. He knows way too much about the game. Im looking over seph's filter now to try and verify what you are saying. I cant see any point where he points out his own mistake somewhere, we point out his mistakes and then he tries to cover it by saying it was a ploy to catch scum. Can you point to the post you are referring to specifically? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
What the shit, man. I asked you to step up and provide more content Here. I asked you a question, HERE, which you either missed or ignored. Then you come in and drop a vote on Shraft with no reason given other than “I have no time”. Not good enough. ##Vote Hyshes | ||
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Adam4167
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Giygas: I find your analysis interesting and insightful. I am concerned with how you’ve switched from “I believe jay in his defense” and “your tone makes it sound like your more concerned about avoiding a lynch (aimed at seph)” to your more recent posts of “I agree with seph” and “sephs final posts are seemingly hitting spot on (in regards to sephs’ case on jay)”. This is a dramatic turn around from your opinions on day 1. Are you basing this entirely off of sephs flip or has something changed between then and now? Shraft: Firstly, why are you telling Giygas to stop posting his analysis and waving it off as pointless? The more Giygas posts, the better able we are to discern his alignment, which I would think is something you should be very interested in considering you’re currently building a case against him. At this point, any chatter is better then nothing. You’ve got an in-depth case building against Giygas, I find his turnaround towards jay to be a red flag until he clarifies it and also the way the seph lynch went down, I did have to raise an eyebrow at his ‘pressure-vote’ that stuck. Dirkzor: A large portion of your case against Giygas is how he is interacting with jaybrundage. Specifically - you find it curious that Giygas is 'soft defending' jay, but I think it needs to be mentioned that I (and Shraft) also said the cases on jay were weak. What separates giygas from the rest of us that have not been swayed by the jay cases? Still, some interesting points in your analysis. Now that that’s done - I was hoping to see more activity in the thread after I went to bed last night. Christmas has been and gone – Its time for everyone to step up and start posting again. To get the ball rolling again - Misder/Cyber_Cheese: Do you intend on pushing your JB cases further today? Hyshes: -.- give us... anything EchleonTee: Are you still suspicious of Shraft? Jay: I assume you are going to attack Hyshes pretty soon - who are his scum friends? | ||
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Adam4167
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My vote on hyshes was a pressure vote, hoping to provoke some kind of reaction or well... anything. I am still suspicious of him. However, I am open to switching to either giygas or jay after skim reading the thread quickly, both are preferable to a no-lynch. For the record I find giygas more scummy then jay. | ||
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Adam4167
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Hes given us the least of the 3 current candidates. I think it was giygas that mentioned he pulled out of another game because he was busy, but when I checked that post Here, it sounds as though he pulled out so he could focus more on this game, rather than because of a time constraint. Jay became a bit more scummy now that hes come back, not one hour after cheese called him out saying he was going to be modkilled soon. That feels to me like hes been reading the thread all along and just lurking among the afkers. And what does he produce? a jump onto the only other wagon going that isnt his -giygas. I cant find too much in jays words that are scummy, but his actions aren't flattering. Still, id rather hang hyshes because hes at best a null read, at worst a lurking scum. Maybe our fairy godmother vigi can visit jaybrundage tonight (if we have one). | ||
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Adam4167
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##Unvote ##Vote jaybrundage | ||
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Adam4167
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On December 28 2011 12:51 Shraft wrote: In fact, it might be better to just have our vigilante shoot. If we can't get an unanimous lynch going (and, looking at today's lynch, that is highly unlikely) it will be very easy for them to force a no lynch by switching their votes at the very last second. Our vigilante should shoot. No, vigi should not shoot. If they do a mass unvote tomorrow we'll know exactly who they are, then the vigi can shoot one of them tomorrow night and it wont be game over, since they'll be down to 2. | ||
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