Fantasy MSL Summer 2011

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 01 2011 14:02 GMT

Welcome back to fantasy MSL! Inspired by the popularity of TeamLiquid's official Proleague and GTSL fantasy leagues, and due to the lack of the same for the MSL since semioldguy ran one years ago (Winter '08-'09, Lost Saga MSL, Luxury won), this season I'm reviving the tradition. (Despite flamewheel's okay, this is not an official TL event.)

>> Results and Standings<<

Leaderboard
1. BloodDrunK (24)
1. Kaolla (24)
1. MrMoose (24)
1. prplhz (24)
1. wherebugsgo (24)
1. UCSD (24)
1. Wohmfg (24)
8. dRaw (22)
8. N.geNuity (22)
8. moktira (22)
8. domane (22)
8. gesgi (22)
8. pylonsalad (22)
8. Itsrainingpaper (22)
8. Tomken (22)
8. Jackal03 (22)
8. Gann1 (22)
8. Ravencruiser (22)
8. raviy (22)
8. Apex (22)
21. One (21)
22. --- (20)
---
---
139. manymunkies (4)
139. dings (4)
141. ichimarugin680 (4)
141. pugowar (2)

+ Show Spoiler [Drafting Breakdown - Breaks Layout] +

Player		#1	#2	#3	#4	#5	#6	#7	#8	All

Action						 6	 3	 3	 1	 13
Anyppi										  0
BaBy		 1	 2	 3	 3	19	13	16	13	 70
BByong						 1		 2		  3
BeSt			 1	 2		 5	15	 8	13	 44
Bisu		10	27	41	16	 9	 4	 2		109
Bogus		 2	 3	 1	 1	14	19	21	20	 81
Brave						 1		 1	 1	  3
by.hero									 1	  1
By.Sun				 2			 4	 3	 5	 14
Calm			 2							  2
Classic				 1						  1
Dear										  0
fantasy			 6	14	14	 3	 1		 1	 39
firebathero		 3	 3	 2	 4		 2		 14
Flash		51	16			 2		 2	 2	 73
free									 1	  1
ggaemo				 2					 1	  3
Grape		 1								  1
great				 2	 4	 2	 1			  9
GuemChi								 1		  1
HoeJJa					 1	 7	 7	 5	 8	 28
Horang2			 4	13	 8	 5	 1	 1		 32
Hydra		 7	15	 2	 1	 1				 26
Hyuk			 1							  1
HyuN										  0
Jaedong		57	34	 3	 4	 1	 3		 1	103
Jaehoon							 3	 5	 3	 11
Jangbi		 2	 3	 1	 5	21	29	28	15	104
Kal				 1	 1				 2	  4
Last							 2			  2
Leta			 1							  1
Light		 1	 4	 9	13	 4	 1			 32
Mind		 1								  1
Modesty								 1	 4	  5
Movie		 1	 1	 4	 1	 3	23	19	32	 84
n.Die_soO	 1	 1	 1	 1	 4	 5	 4	 7	 24
Neo.G_Soulkey	 1	 3	14	25	14	 3	 1	 2	 63
Paralyze							 1		  1
PerfectMan							 1		  1
Reality			 4	 1	 1	 1	 1			  8
Really					 4		 2	 1		  7
RorO				 2		 1				  3
RuBy										  0
Sea			 2	 4	 8	 6		 4		 24
Shine				 1	 2	 1	 1			  5
sHy								 3	 1	  4
Snow			 1	 3	 6	 1				 11
SonGDuri									  0
Ssak							 1	 3	 1	  5
Stork		 1	 1	10	21	 5		 1	 1	 40
TurN				 1				 2	 4	  7
Tyson										  0
Where									 2	  2
ZerO		 5	 7	 1		 1		 1		 15

I am aware that the order players are listed in wasn't really a R1/R2/R3 thing, but most teams were listed from best to worst, so I threw it in (plus this is how I had to count them out).

The Prize: Winner gets pride, glory, and (because what's a competition without a prize?) your choice of a TL Store shirt (as long as it's in stock). I will contact the winner to arrange shipping etc.

The Rules

Team

Pick 8 players from the 56 qualified for the MST and MSL tournaments.

Races: You must have at least two races represented on your team.
Cost: Your 8 players must have no more than 6 stars between them.

Signups are now closed. If you missed it, you have to wait for next season. This thread is for discussion only. Trading will open after the MSL Groups Selection Ceremony.

Scoring

Players will earn points as follows:

Base Points
Group Play (MST, MSL Ro32) Game Win: 1 point
Bracket Play (MSL Ro16-Final) Game Win: 2 points
Game Loss: -1 point

Bonuses
Advance to the Next Round: 1 point
Advance Undefeated: 1 point
Winstreak: 1 point every three wins

Trading

You will have the opportunity to trade players at two points:

First Trade: After the MST concludes and the MSL groups selection ceremony is finished, you may trade up to three players. The two-race rule must be observed.
Second Trade: When the MSL bracket is reseeded (Round of Eight), you may trade up to two players. The two-race rule need not be observered.

There are no trading penalties.

When trading, you must trade for an equal- or lower-seeded player. (Seeding is indicated by stars.)

Players

+ Show Spoiler [Player List] +

Flash
**

ZerO
**

Hydra
**

Jaedong
** (T)

Leta
**

Calm
**

Mind
**

Grape
---
* (P)

Bisu
*

Classic
*

Dear
*

Fantasy
*

firebathero
* (P)

free[gm]
* (Z)

ggaemo
*

great
*

by.hero
*

Horang2
*

Hyuk
*

HyuN
*

Kal
*

Light
*

Really
*

Reality
*

RorO
*

RuBy
*

Sea
*

Shine
*

Neo.G_Soulkey
* (P)

Snow
*

Stork
*

Tyson
---

herO[jOin]
(Z)

PerfectMan
(P)

sHy

+ Show Spoiler [MST Groups] +

Group 1
(Z)

Hyuk <Circuit Breaker> (T)

Bogus

HoeJJa <Circuit Breaker> (P)

Tyson
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 2
(T)

Light <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

Where

JangBi <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

HyuN
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 3
(P)

Snow <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

n.Die_soO

TurN <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

Shine
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 4
(P)

Horang2 <Circuit Breaker> (T)

Ssak

herO[jOin] <Circuit Breaker> (P)

Kal
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 5
(T)

Fantasy <Circuit Breaker> (P)

Anyppi

Modesty <Circuit Breaker> (P)

free
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 6
(P)

Bisu <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

SonGDuri

BaBy <Circuit Breaker> (P)

Dear
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 7
(Z)

Neo.G_Soulkey <Circuit Breaker> (T)

BByong

PerfectMan <Circuit Breaker> (T)

firebathero
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 8
(P)

Stork <Circuit Breaker> (T)

Last

Paralyze <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

RorO
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 9
(Z)

hero <Circuit Breaker> (P)

By.Sun

Movie <Circuit Breaker> (T)

RuBy
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 10
(Z)

great <Circuit Breaker> (P)

sHy

BeSt <Circuit Breaker> (T)

Classic
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 11
(T)

Really <Circuit Breaker> (P)

Jaehoon

Brave <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

ggaemo
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Group 12
(T)

Reality <Circuit Breaker> (Z)

Action

GuemChi <Circuit Breaker> (T)

Sea
Winners: La Mancha
Losers: La Mancha
Final: Monte Cristo

Source:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=46685

+ Show Spoiler [MSL Qualifiers] +

Flash
**

ZerO
**

Hydra
**

Jaedong
** (T)

Leta
**

Calm
**

Mind
**

Grape
---
* (P)

Bisu
*

by.hero
*

Classic
*

Fantasy
*

firebathero
* (P)

Horang2
*

Hyuk
*

Light
*

Neo.G_Soulkey
* (Z)

RorO
*

Sea
*

Snow
*

Stork
---

sHy

This is not a sign-up thread. Do not post a team here with no discussion. Do not PM me with your team, it will not be signed up.

Your Questions Answered

Read these first before asking questions. I'll post answers to new questions in the thread and copy them here.

EDIT: There's a question on whether the quality of players should also be limited. Where FPL/FGTSL has a numerical cost, the FMSL system is judged by seed, indicated by stars. It was proposed that the total star count therefore be limited. Let me know what you think. Poll:

Poll: Team Creation:

Add the proposed 6-star limit as well. (12)

80%

Keep as-is (only limit is 2-race rule). (3)

20%

15 total votes

Your vote: Team Creation:

(Vote): Keep as-is (only limit is 2-race rule).
(Vote): Add the proposed 6-star limit as well.

On July 02 2011 02:23 Release wrote:
If a player, say flash, gets knocked out, could he be traded for someone else?

Yes. Getting rid of players who drop out is the main reason I included trading in this system.

tanngard

Norway1325 Posts

July 01 2011 14:57 GMT

Awesome. I want ma some of dose TL shirts.

flamewheel

FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts

July 01 2011 15:18 GMT

I like this format... though is the only restriction to the original selection based on race?

DejaVu119

United States131 Posts

July 01 2011 15:23 GMT

what's the restriction on how many 2 star players you can have? or can i have all 2 star players if i wanted.

]343[

United States10328 Posts

July 01 2011 15:26 GMT

I think they'll be assigned costs sometime? Or perhaps the cost will be their number of stars?

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 01 2011 15:37 GMT

On July 02 2011 00:23 DejaVu119 wrote:
what's the restriction on how many 2 star players you can have? or can i have all 2 star players if i wanted.

No restrictions based on seeding. Stars (= seeding) is for trading purposes only. Depending how this works out, next season I may (have to) add restrictions on how many players at which level you can have, but without some evidence I'm not sure how to set the limits on 1-stars vs no-stars. 2-stars (MSL seeds) have a built-in "power limiter" in that they're not playing in the first round (MST), so that every one you put on your team is (at least potentially) giving up points.

On July 02 2011 00:18 flamewheel wrote:
I like this format... though is the only restriction to the original selection based on race?

Yes.

Release

United States4397 Posts

July 01 2011 17:23 GMT

If a player, say flash, gets knocked out, could he be traded for someone else?

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 02 2011 17:10 GMT

On July 02 2011 02:23 Release wrote:
If a player, say flash, gets knocked out, could he be traded for someone else?

Yes: getting rid of players who drop out is the main reason I included trading in this system.

Crisium

United States1618 Posts

July 02 2011 17:24 GMT

Without restrictions I can't help but guess that most players will have Flash, Jaedong, and Hydra (maybe Bisu if you still have faith). Something like an arbitrary 5 star restriction for the opening betting would be better. That way if you chose Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu everyone else would have to be non-seed. Or whatever. I'm interested either way.

I would pick my 3 favourite toss and 2 favourite others. I find that rooting for your favourite players rather than whose on a streak is more fun. All 8 of my probable picks are true entertainers for me:

(P)

Stork,

Bisu,

Snow,

Fantasy,

BaBy,

ZerO,

Neo.G_Soulkey, tbd

Even though Stork has been hovering around 40% for a while he is still my favourite and I will not lose my faith. Bisu may have not made it past the Ro16 in over 2 years, but with his ability it might as well be now or never. Snow has the potential for greatness and this could be his breakout season even more than PDPop.

Fantasy impresses me with his builds, especially versus Zerg. Baby's harassment is so good it annoys me. If I had to drop serious cash on which player without a SL Title yet is most likely to win multiple in his career, I would choose Baby.

The Woongjin Zergs should speak for themselves. Terrans better guard their command centers if you know what I mean.

Though when the actual MST groups are decided I may change my mind, of course.

FreezerJumps

Canada653 Posts

July 02 2011 17:28 GMT

#10

On July 03 2011 02:24 Crisium wrote:
Without restrictions I can't help but guess that most players will have Flash, Jaedong, and Hydra (maybe Bisu if you still have faith). Something like an arbitrary 5 star restriction for the opening betting would be better. That way if you chose Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu everyone else would have to be non-seed. Or whatever. I'm interested either way.

I think the other thing to consider is that non-seeded players who advance will have played more games. If, say, Hoejja advances a couple rounds, he'll have a bunch of points before Flash even plays. Obviously you want people who will make it to the semis and finals, but you also want people who advance several rounds from the MST.

Crisium

United States1618 Posts

July 02 2011 17:38 GMT

#11

Very true. If your pick advanced out of the MST 2-1 he gets 2 points. If he advanced 2-0 he gets 4 points and the potential to start a winning streak.

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 02 2011 17:42 GMT

#12

Since groups haven't been declared (and therefore signups aren't open), I'm open to shifting things a little bit, depending on opinion.

A team picked at random would average 5.7 stars if I'm doing my math right. If I added in a limit, for this initial season it will be 6 stars total. I still think that for the initial season it would be better to see how things work out with no limit - but that's my opinion. Anyway, I added a poll to the OP to get a feel for where people are on this one.

Crisium

United States1618 Posts

July 02 2011 18:04 GMT

#13

The only problem with that restriction is that no one would pick Grape.

Maybe it's messing around with the system too much, but I can't help but feel that last season's semi-finalists are a league above those that lost in the Ro8. I'd want to see the Ro8 losers also be 1 star. It still makes it tough to choose between, say, Mind and Sea. Mind is guaranteed into the Ro32, but Sea could own up his MST group 2-0, advance from Ro32 2-1, and get you 6-7 points. Mind could go 0-2 and lose you 2 points. Hopefully you can follow what I mean here: The Ro8 losers are not really better than the MST seeds like Sea (or Bisu).

The more I think about it, with the current system there should not be a star restriction. But there should be a semi-finalist restriction. I'd much rather see a restriction of "Maximum 1 (or 2, whatever is best) of Flash, ZerO, Hydra, Jaedong".

I voted for the 6-star restriction, but I'd rather see something a bit different, if you follow me here.

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 03 2011 02:56 GMT

#14

On July 03 2011 03:04 Crisium wrote:
The more I think about it, with the current system there should not be a star restriction. But there should be a semi-finalist restriction. I'd much rather see a restriction of "Maximum 1 (or 2, whatever is best) of Flash, ZerO, Hydra, Jaedong".

The difficulty I'm anticipating - and the reason why I'd rather start with no restriction - is that this is something I want to keep running over multiple seasons. In all honesty, the last MSL's field was weak. Calm is mediocre for the last year and living on the inherited seeding from his title; Mind was on a hot streak; Grape is good and lucky but young; Leta is all over the place right now although he unquestionably has S-class potential. I don't believe Hydra is good enough to maintain his results (although to be honest he's rapidly proving me wrong and I mostly just dislike CJ Zergs); ZerO is inconsistent beyond imagining even if he's one of my favorite players. Flash and Jaedong, of course, I'm not questioning - but at the same time Flash has health questions and Jaedong's showed weaknesses on and off for the past few months.

The problem with a "semi-final" restriction is - what if the KeSPA ranking had been a bit different and the Ro8 had been Leta vs Grape, Jaedong vs ZerO, Mind vs Calm, Flash vs Hydra? Arguably you could have had a Grape vs Calm (or Mind, the argument holds regardless), Flash vs ZerO semifinal round. Basically, what I'm saying is I'm trying to build this system on MSL results only, and leave the team-choosing up to the players. Even in FPL, for instance, if Bisu and Flash are both 9 points (say), you know Bisu's more likely to return you more points because SKT wins more than KT based on supporting cast.

Back to FMSL. Do you choose Grape when you could take Flash? Probably not... but what if someone takes a flyer on a rookie based on groups, and Flash goes down in the Ro32 to an unscouted proxy-gate and a random PvT loss on a bad map, and the rookie advances 2-0? Or say Jaedong gets stuck with a group with Bisu and Hydra or soO or Calm: there's an off-chance he loses there.

I'd like to run the first season without restrictions to see if any patterns emerge. If their are definite patterns, then I can switch over to some sort of cost system or further team-choice restrictions. But even there you're going to get uneven costs (your life depends on it: do you draft Flash (finalist) or ZerO (finalist)? ... yeah, duh.

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

July 03 2011 03:13 GMT

#15

Nice, I'm definitely in. :D

saltywet

Hong Kong1316 Posts

July 03 2011 03:46 GMT

#16

JangBi,

Bogus,

Movie,

Horang2,

Jaedong,

Flash,

Hydra,

ZerO

pretty safe team from me, first three are the ones i think would do well from the nonstars. horang2 the only one who shows good results from the 1-star. last 4 are safe picks to get to semis, finals, or win the msl. i hesitate to pick anyone from SKT because mainly im an anti-fan and they have upcoming proleague finals

AnyOne

Chile547 Posts

July 03 2011 06:00 GMT

#17

YAY!
I LOVE THIS FANTASY THINGS

Pippah

Denmark353 Posts

July 04 2011 14:19 GMT

#18

So... If I pick Flash he will earn me no points until he get in at the ro16 (or whenever?).

Will the rookies I pick whom do well increase in "stars" so I can potentialy trade them for someone else later?

Edit:
Like if I pick ggaemo and he destroyes everyone can I later trade him for someone who was worth more in the start?

VGhost

United States3613 Posts

July 04 2011 14:31 GMT

#19

On July 04 2011 23:19 Pippah wrote:
So... If I pick Flash he will earn me no points until he get in at the ro16 (or whenever?).

Ro32. No points during MST (max points for the MST round is 4) but seeds (especially the #1) have huge control over groups so he'll have an advantageous Ro32 group. Your call.

On July 04 2011 23:19 Pippah wrote:
Will the rookies I pick whom do well increase in "stars" so I can potentialy trade them for someone else later?

"Costs" are based on seeding and therefore fixed.

lyAsakura

United States1414 Posts

July 04 2011 21:46 GMT

#20

Personally I think Movie is a steal and Sea has a good MST group so he might go far. I know it's a risk, but he might go all the way =) It's a tough choice between stork or great though.

Also... tiebreak please? :L

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