• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:04
CET 05:04
KST 13:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8523 users

Are Phoenixes really the hard counter to Mutas?

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
FutureArchon
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States25 Posts
April 04 2011 06:55 GMT
#1
I just tested it.

200/200 Mutas destroyed 200/200 Phoenixes.
Flowjo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States928 Posts
April 04 2011 06:56 GMT
#2
so... show the video sir?
IMNestea's biggest fan.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 06:57:45
April 04 2011 06:57 GMT
#3
On April 04 2011 15:55 FutureArchon wrote:
I just tested it.

200/200 Mutas destroyed 200/200 Phoenixes.


Uhm... yeah?

But well, you know, micro and such?...

Also, mutalisks get stronger in bigger numbers due to the bounce attack, in small numbers it's different.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
April 04 2011 06:57 GMT
#4
Now micro them and learn to make a better thread next time by following guidelines!
BW -> League -> CSGO
Fir3fly
Profile Joined May 2009
Australia251 Posts
April 04 2011 06:59 GMT
#5
cool
orotoss
Profile Joined September 2010
United States298 Posts
April 04 2011 07:00 GMT
#6
This is like saying that reapers lose to zealots if you don't micro. Obviously the zealot is going to win if you don't move your reaper.

Please read the forum guidelines before posting.
BLARRGHGHH
calvincible
Profile Joined August 2010
United States19 Posts
April 04 2011 07:00 GMT
#7
is this thread a joke...?

if not, phoenixes outrange mutas and can shoot while moving, so with any semblance of micro, they perform better
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
April 04 2011 07:00 GMT
#8
This seems highly unlikely.

Assuming 0/0 upgrades on both sides, a mutalisk counting the full bounce attack does 8.6 DPS, and a phoenix does 18 DPS. As upgrade levels climb, the phoenix gets stronger compared to the mutalisk (think about how the bounce attack works...)

The mutalisk has 120 health; the phoenix has 180 total.

As far as those intangibles go that go beyond a-moving: The phoenix is faster, has a longer range, and has moving shot.
moonylo
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany68 Posts
April 04 2011 07:02 GMT
#9
You did a mistake I guess. You have to magic box the phoenix!
Jumbled
Profile Joined September 2010
1543 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 07:17:35
April 04 2011 07:10 GMT
#10
Were they hallucinated phoenixes by any chance? Because that's the only way this is going to happen.

Edit: And for all the clowns carrying on about micro, please stop encouraging this misinformation. Even on attack move, phoenixes completely destroy mutas at equal supply.
winedz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States92 Posts
April 04 2011 07:10 GMT
#11
small numbers of muta: yes
huge numbers of muta: no, just go for HT + archon
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10383 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 07:12:25
April 04 2011 07:11 GMT
#12
duh? and not in a straight fight >.>

@ winedz

that's pretty wrong, stack the phoenixes and micro and they will still counter...


edit: some of you seem to be forgetting, with good micro mutas cannot catch up to phoenixes; they are a hard hard counter
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
April 04 2011 07:13 GMT
#13
if they just a-move then yes mass mutas would win b/c of their splash damage...but if you micro your phoenix perfectly...1 phoenix can kill infinite amount of mutas

if they mass mutas...just go HTs/Cannons/Archons

use blink stalkers in the mean time while you tech to HTs
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
April 04 2011 07:14 GMT
#14
On April 04 2011 15:55 FutureArchon wrote:
I just tested it.

200/200 Mutas destroyed 200/200 Phoenixes.

What? That's impossible, test again. You must have done something wrong or the upgrades etc. are different. My results are completely different. Even 70 Phoenixes beat 100 mutas with only a-move.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
April 04 2011 07:17 GMT
#15
Good for you!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
09:00
FSL season 12 opener: HM vs ST
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft331
RuFF_SC2 192
PiLiPiLi 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 114
ProTech66
Bale 26
Noble 17
Icarus 7
LuMiX 1
Counter-Strike
taco 569
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0263
Other Games
summit1g10367
JimRising 595
PGG 320
NeuroSwarm67
ViBE45
Fuzer 43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick728
BasetradeTV88
Counter-Strike
PGL75
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 24
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 20
• davetesta13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo173
Other Games
• Scarra825
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6h 56m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
12h 56m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
14h 56m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 6h
IPSL
1d 12h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.