• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:12
CEST 17:12
KST 00:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles2[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China8Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL64Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 695 users

[D] Alternating Warpgate and Gateway Idea

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
lunesis
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada2 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 05:24:49
July 02 2010 05:24 GMT
#1
I'm sure that someone thought of this before but discarded it as it appears that the gain isn't worth the effort. The obvious draw back is the 13 seconds loss, 10 from gateway to warpgate and 3 from warpgate to gateway. With fastest build time unit, zealot, being 33 seconds and warpgate cooldown being 32 seconds, 2nd unit just comes out faster staying warpgate. However, 3rd will comes out faster this way.

Supposing only making zealots, numbers look like this:
warpgate only:
first (0) - second (32) - third (64) - fourth (96) - fifth (128)
alternating warpgate and gateway:
first (0) - gateway (3) - second (36) - warpgate/third (46) - gateway (49) - fourth (82) - warpgate/fifth (92)

Therefore, technically we can save quarter of build time by alternating warpgate and gateway. What if we're not building zealots? Then we can make them at warpgate phase and make zealots at gateway phase. As long as it starts with warpgate and ends with gate way, production time can be cut by roughly 28%, at no additional resource cost, and also having it on gateway phase reminds us to use chrono boost.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 05:40:46
July 02 2010 05:38 GMT
#2
I've heard this mentioned a few times, and I can't believe people care about things like that, and/or don't realize all the information, but I guess people always just want to figure out something other people don't know no matter how small.

Overall, if you are building a rather small and odd number of units per gate, yes you will be able to make a timing push faster than otherwise, but it's not very useful because it still takes longer than not building the extra unit, and takes considerably longer when you're building even numbers of units per gate.

I'm really just talking about this too much though. The bottom line is that:
1. The more you keep swapping, the less effective it becomes at being faster production on odd units than just warpgates
2. At any (reasonable) given span of time the warpgate will on average have better production than alternating modes.

Also, I said odd, but afaik it can be odd or even (but not both, ofc), depending if you're starting at warp gate or gateway.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 02 2010 05:42 GMT
#3
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
italiangymnast
Profile Joined December 2009
United States246 Posts
July 02 2010 05:53 GMT
#4
On July 02 2010 14:42 sob3k wrote:
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION


this

and idk - if this does have some kind of huge effect, blizz'll prolly patch it out.
SCII ID: Sanctuary LoL ID: erzin
Azuremen
Profile Joined May 2010
United States71 Posts
July 02 2010 06:23 GMT
#5
Use the search function indeed, as I did a bunch of math regarding this a couple of months ago. Basically, you get gains with anything above a Zealot, more so if you build the zealot on teh Gateway while using the Warpgate for Stalkers, etc.
The voice from up high spoke - "Build more pylons"
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 06:32:21
July 02 2010 06:32 GMT
#6
Your math sucks bro. You only see significant production advantage while making templar. There is a slight benefit for stalkers and no benefit for zealots. Oh and search for this.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 02 2010 06:34 GMT
#7
Literally, all you would have had to do was search "warpgate," using the search function to find "http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125873" aka "[D] Switching between gateways and warpgates" as the very first topic (now second because of yours). Really..?
lunesis
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada2 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 06:44:17
July 02 2010 06:40 GMT
#8
my apologies. I wasn't familiar with team liquid site (only posted twice) so I didn't search first.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#43
WardiTV1430
OGKoka 525
Harstem481
IndyStarCraft 225
Rex167
CranKy Ducklings132
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 525
Harstem 481
mouzHeroMarine 274
Hui .245
IndyStarCraft 225
Rex 167
MaxPax 67
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 3210
Jaedong 2375
Flash 2321
EffOrt 891
Hyuk 656
Soulkey 503
Stork 433
ZerO 428
Larva 382
Snow 331
[ Show more ]
actioN 327
Soma 278
firebathero 232
GuemChi 184
Mind 159
sSak 82
TY 70
Barracks 63
JulyZerg 62
Yoon 56
Sharp 47
PianO 43
hero 42
sorry 33
soO 25
Aegong 24
JYJ24
HiyA 23
Terrorterran 22
yabsab 20
Rock 17
GoRush 11
IntoTheRainbow 9
Shine 6
Dota 2
Gorgc5690
qojqva3120
syndereN480
League of Legends
singsing2420
Dendi1127
Counter-Strike
fl0m611
markeloff152
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King233
Other Games
hiko1815
B2W.Neo917
Beastyqt674
crisheroes450
Lowko354
ArmadaUGS149
Liquid`VortiX143
Trikslyr22
ZerO(Twitch)20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43664
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 1
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3466
• WagamamaTV489
League of Legends
• Nemesis6723
• TFBlade433
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
48m
Replay Cast
8h 48m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 48m
WardiTV European League
1d
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 18h
WardiTV European League
1d 20h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.