• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:44
CET 01:44
KST 09:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
$100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 843 users

An Opinion Piece #3

Blogs > Chef
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 04:29:17
June 18 2010 04:25 GMT
#1
An Opinion Piece #3
[image loading]
Gather 'round children while uncle Chef rambles to himself


Ladders

      I fucking hate ladders. They're miserable, especially in SC:BW. Even if it didn't take forever to get a game, with most people banning you if you aren't their soulmate, that's not the real reason I hate ladder. SC2 fixes all that and I still don't like it. The whole mentality of a ladder is garbage.
      Every once in awhile when watching SC:BW VODs (I can't believe I feel the need to be so specific already), I get the sudden urge to play SC again. I can't help it. I love this game. But then I remember all the people I used to play with are basically like me... We don't play anymore, and if we do it's on a random spur of the moment. So I go to play a game or two of ladder. It doesn't matter if I win or if I lose, I still feel shitty after. "What just happened? This was shit," I think. Why is this game I loved so much not fun anymore? Well I think I've figured it out: I hate playing strangers.
      When you play a stranger, the banter is pretty limited (no in jokes, no history), most people don't even want to talk... Okay, that's fine. I like a focused game as much as the next guy. But what really sucks? The question of whether there will be a re-game or not. It's pretty rare to get a re, especially against someone who just does one risky strategy every game. The games aren't friendly, so mistakes aren't as funny, and you don't even get the chance to rectify them in the next game... But the worst thing is that my favourite part of StarCraft is stripped away when I play ladder. That part is figuring out my opponent and playing TO HIM, rather than just playing my own game.
      When I play ladder, it feels like it's fucking single player. There's no meta-game... Or if there is, it's really limited. I don't know how you personally define meta-game, but understanding popular trends is not interesting or fun. It's just 'wow, a lot of people do the same crap.' GREAT. You have to make such general and boring assumptions about your opponents that you might as well ignore them. For a casual player like me, this is nuts. It forces a style of play which is boring and repetitive. Macro and play safe. Wow SO fun. If someone catches you off guard, don't bother fixing that hole in your game cause it will never happen in the same way again.
      This brings me to the virtues of playing someone you know, or at least just the same person over and over. As maps and matchups start to overlap, you get an overall picture of your opponent's style. You can find the holes in it, and fix the holes in your own game that he's exploiting. It's an intense mind game, where you can actually detect patterns in your opponent's play. 'If I do this, he always does this: What's the best way to abuse that?" It's specific, and means that between me and my opponent, our game is always evolving. Our strategies are complex. We don't have to play super safe and super standard and try to read every possible strategy in the game. We know what's in each other's repertoires; When something is added it's interesting and we can talk about it after. What's more, because we know our opponents style is limited (not playing 10 hrs. a day), you can think pretty far ahead with your strategies and get units you don't normally see.
      That's what I miss most about having a rival to play all the time. The games were so varied and exciting. For the both of us, there is heavy motivation to keep the game fresh and interesting. I miss countering shuttle/reaver with lockdown ghosts because I KNOW my opponent has been in love with it lately. I miss feeling like I am playing my opponent, and not some faceless might as well be a computer guy. I miss feeling like I'm fucking good at this game when I play his weakness so perfectly. I miss not feeling bad about losses because I will always have a million chances at revenge. I liked not feeling shitty about a random mistake. I liked getting to know where I should place my army based on how my opponent moves his army... I just fucking liked StarCraft.

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh man, I was on such a good angry rant for the first 2 paragraphs... Then I kept being interrupted and it was hard to harness the angry while being nice to someone at the same time. Plus all my blogs are retarded


****
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
FraCuS
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1072 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 04:35:39
June 18 2010 04:35 GMT
#2
5/5 good read.

I FUCKING LOVE STARCRAFT TOOOOOO
Apink/Girl's Day/miss A/IU/Crayon Pop/Sistar/Exo K :D l Kpop and Kdrama Enthusiast
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 18 2010 04:55 GMT
#3
I find I play a lot worse against people I don't know. Laddering is okay but its really nothing like playing with a group of friends, they're completely different experiences and playing friends is far superior.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
June 18 2010 04:56 GMT
#4
Dare I say it, but my only good memories from SC2 beta are my epic 2v2 adventures with Mani D:
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
prog.ress
Profile Joined April 2010
United States142 Posts
June 18 2010 05:03 GMT
#5
While I don't mind playing strangers, getting heckled by someone you're likely not ever going to meet in person is one of the most infuriating things that can happen to you. And shortly thereafter, they deny you the re. Not everyone does it, but the few always spoil it for the group.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
June 18 2010 05:05 GMT
#6
on a side note, i play about 3-4 times better against computers than actual people
Nony is Bonjwa
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3500 Posts
June 18 2010 05:08 GMT
#7
Chef, you play zerg right? May I suggest proxy hatch?
Moderator
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
June 18 2010 05:14 GMT
#8
Kau I eat you.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
June 18 2010 05:19 GMT
#9
I actually 9hatched in the middle of Lost Temple a few days ago. I don't feel as clever though, since he was just some stranger. He did end up asking for a re though, so I just raped him with the Stove.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 05:20:19
June 18 2010 05:20 GMT
#10
On June 18 2010 14:19 Chef wrote:
I actually 9hatched in the middle of Lost Temple a few days ago. I don't feel as clever though, since he was just some stranger. He did end up asking for a re though, so I just raped him with the Stove.


waaaait a second this sounds quite unlike what you said in your OP :O
Writer
Try
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1293 Posts
June 18 2010 05:34 GMT
#11
Yeah I agree with you Chef. Playing casually with friends is always much more fun than laddering. However, there needs to be a system so that we can evaluate everyone's skill level. This is why we have ratings in chess, rankings in schools, etc. Saying ladders are stupid is like saying chess tournaments are dumb cause playing blitz games with friends is more fun, or that any sort of official competition that doesn't involve monetary gain is worthless.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
June 18 2010 05:36 GMT
#12
Let me describe the complex mind games that went on in those games. "Oh, Lost Temple. The only people who make that on iCCup are people who haven't played in 5 years. He's probably terrible, so I'm just going to do something really retarded." Not the most fun I've ever had in my life. But then there's something about Lost Temple... The home of real men.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
June 18 2010 05:45 GMT
#13
I always do random strats against strangers, hell my last strat was 14CC to 2Rax 4Port wraith against zerg and ended up getting 10 starports and winning with battlecruisers, I did this twice to 2 different people. One of them flamed me to no end, and the other one thought it was really funny.

Just because you play strangers doesn't mean you have to do a boring build, and you don't have to play against your friends to do a lockdown

I agree though, playing with friends is better than playing strangers.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
June 18 2010 05:46 GMT
#14
I always find it way more fun to play with friends. But unlike you I don't find my self in misery when I play strangers. I totally understands what you are saying tho.

Which is why I was so pissed when one of the sc2 patches removed our ability to add friends via input.. AND reset/wiped all my previous friends/got rid of identifies. effectively disconnected me from all the friends I've made through beta until that point. They know we are going to lose all our friends on beta with no way to add/find them again (except extreme luck), and didn't even give out a warning. Mannered and skilled ppl can be hard to find.. sigh... after that i didn't really play anymore beta.



Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
June 18 2010 05:51 GMT
#15
This blog has inspired me to go play SCBW again (and try midgame transitions into dweb vs terran!)
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3456 Posts
June 18 2010 06:07 GMT
#16
Excellent blog, Chef.
I think we should play starcraft. ;D
Do you irc?
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 18 2010 06:17 GMT
#17
Except that I'm one of the players who enjoy slow paced safe macro games (especially mech tvz from both sides) I agree with most of your blog, 5/5 (;
In the woods, there lurks..
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
June 18 2010 06:22 GMT
#18
I will play you all the time.

We have history.

you ate cakes at my house fuck.
Each day gets better : )
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
June 18 2010 06:27 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
June 18 2010 06:38 GMT
#20
On June 18 2010 15:22 ella_guru wrote:
I will play you all the time.

We have history.

you ate cakes at my house fuck.

It's supposed to be
Syllables: five seven five.
Or were you joking?
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech151
SpeCial 143
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15391
Shuttle 105
NaDa 31
Dota 2
ROOTCatZ17
Counter-Strike
summit1g9014
byalli484
Other Games
tarik_tv5435
Grubby3458
Chillindude183
XaKoH 155
Mew2King124
ZombieGrub71
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1942
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 53
• davetesta42
• musti20045 36
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22659
• WagamamaTV1577
League of Legends
• Doublelift6140
Other Games
• imaqtpie2276
• Scarra1215
• Shiphtur223
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 17m
WardiTV Invitational
11h 17m
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Big Brain Bouts
1d 16h
Elazer vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.