• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:49
CEST 14:49
KST 21:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War825.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Visiting korea this week BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released Mineral Boosting (2 workers/patch) Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12587 users

An Opinion Piece #3

Blogs > Chef
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 04:29:17
June 18 2010 04:25 GMT
#1
An Opinion Piece #3
[image loading]
Gather 'round children while uncle Chef rambles to himself


Ladders

      I fucking hate ladders. They're miserable, especially in SC:BW. Even if it didn't take forever to get a game, with most people banning you if you aren't their soulmate, that's not the real reason I hate ladder. SC2 fixes all that and I still don't like it. The whole mentality of a ladder is garbage.
      Every once in awhile when watching SC:BW VODs (I can't believe I feel the need to be so specific already), I get the sudden urge to play SC again. I can't help it. I love this game. But then I remember all the people I used to play with are basically like me... We don't play anymore, and if we do it's on a random spur of the moment. So I go to play a game or two of ladder. It doesn't matter if I win or if I lose, I still feel shitty after. "What just happened? This was shit," I think. Why is this game I loved so much not fun anymore? Well I think I've figured it out: I hate playing strangers.
      When you play a stranger, the banter is pretty limited (no in jokes, no history), most people don't even want to talk... Okay, that's fine. I like a focused game as much as the next guy. But what really sucks? The question of whether there will be a re-game or not. It's pretty rare to get a re, especially against someone who just does one risky strategy every game. The games aren't friendly, so mistakes aren't as funny, and you don't even get the chance to rectify them in the next game... But the worst thing is that my favourite part of StarCraft is stripped away when I play ladder. That part is figuring out my opponent and playing TO HIM, rather than just playing my own game.
      When I play ladder, it feels like it's fucking single player. There's no meta-game... Or if there is, it's really limited. I don't know how you personally define meta-game, but understanding popular trends is not interesting or fun. It's just 'wow, a lot of people do the same crap.' GREAT. You have to make such general and boring assumptions about your opponents that you might as well ignore them. For a casual player like me, this is nuts. It forces a style of play which is boring and repetitive. Macro and play safe. Wow SO fun. If someone catches you off guard, don't bother fixing that hole in your game cause it will never happen in the same way again.
      This brings me to the virtues of playing someone you know, or at least just the same person over and over. As maps and matchups start to overlap, you get an overall picture of your opponent's style. You can find the holes in it, and fix the holes in your own game that he's exploiting. It's an intense mind game, where you can actually detect patterns in your opponent's play. 'If I do this, he always does this: What's the best way to abuse that?" It's specific, and means that between me and my opponent, our game is always evolving. Our strategies are complex. We don't have to play super safe and super standard and try to read every possible strategy in the game. We know what's in each other's repertoires; When something is added it's interesting and we can talk about it after. What's more, because we know our opponents style is limited (not playing 10 hrs. a day), you can think pretty far ahead with your strategies and get units you don't normally see.
      That's what I miss most about having a rival to play all the time. The games were so varied and exciting. For the both of us, there is heavy motivation to keep the game fresh and interesting. I miss countering shuttle/reaver with lockdown ghosts because I KNOW my opponent has been in love with it lately. I miss feeling like I am playing my opponent, and not some faceless might as well be a computer guy. I miss feeling like I'm fucking good at this game when I play his weakness so perfectly. I miss not feeling bad about losses because I will always have a million chances at revenge. I liked not feeling shitty about a random mistake. I liked getting to know where I should place my army based on how my opponent moves his army... I just fucking liked StarCraft.

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh man, I was on such a good angry rant for the first 2 paragraphs... Then I kept being interrupted and it was hard to harness the angry while being nice to someone at the same time. Plus all my blogs are retarded


****
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
FraCuS
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1072 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 04:35:39
June 18 2010 04:35 GMT
#2
5/5 good read.

I FUCKING LOVE STARCRAFT TOOOOOO
Apink/Girl's Day/miss A/IU/Crayon Pop/Sistar/Exo K :D l Kpop and Kdrama Enthusiast
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 18 2010 04:55 GMT
#3
I find I play a lot worse against people I don't know. Laddering is okay but its really nothing like playing with a group of friends, they're completely different experiences and playing friends is far superior.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
June 18 2010 04:56 GMT
#4
Dare I say it, but my only good memories from SC2 beta are my epic 2v2 adventures with Mani D:
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
prog.ress
Profile Joined April 2010
United States142 Posts
June 18 2010 05:03 GMT
#5
While I don't mind playing strangers, getting heckled by someone you're likely not ever going to meet in person is one of the most infuriating things that can happen to you. And shortly thereafter, they deny you the re. Not everyone does it, but the few always spoil it for the group.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
June 18 2010 05:05 GMT
#6
on a side note, i play about 3-4 times better against computers than actual people
Nony is Bonjwa
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
June 18 2010 05:08 GMT
#7
Chef, you play zerg right? May I suggest proxy hatch?
Moderator
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
June 18 2010 05:14 GMT
#8
Kau I eat you.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
June 18 2010 05:19 GMT
#9
I actually 9hatched in the middle of Lost Temple a few days ago. I don't feel as clever though, since he was just some stranger. He did end up asking for a re though, so I just raped him with the Stove.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 05:20:19
June 18 2010 05:20 GMT
#10
On June 18 2010 14:19 Chef wrote:
I actually 9hatched in the middle of Lost Temple a few days ago. I don't feel as clever though, since he was just some stranger. He did end up asking for a re though, so I just raped him with the Stove.


waaaait a second this sounds quite unlike what you said in your OP :O
Writer
Try
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1293 Posts
June 18 2010 05:34 GMT
#11
Yeah I agree with you Chef. Playing casually with friends is always much more fun than laddering. However, there needs to be a system so that we can evaluate everyone's skill level. This is why we have ratings in chess, rankings in schools, etc. Saying ladders are stupid is like saying chess tournaments are dumb cause playing blitz games with friends is more fun, or that any sort of official competition that doesn't involve monetary gain is worthless.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
June 18 2010 05:36 GMT
#12
Let me describe the complex mind games that went on in those games. "Oh, Lost Temple. The only people who make that on iCCup are people who haven't played in 5 years. He's probably terrible, so I'm just going to do something really retarded." Not the most fun I've ever had in my life. But then there's something about Lost Temple... The home of real men.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
June 18 2010 05:45 GMT
#13
I always do random strats against strangers, hell my last strat was 14CC to 2Rax 4Port wraith against zerg and ended up getting 10 starports and winning with battlecruisers, I did this twice to 2 different people. One of them flamed me to no end, and the other one thought it was really funny.

Just because you play strangers doesn't mean you have to do a boring build, and you don't have to play against your friends to do a lockdown

I agree though, playing with friends is better than playing strangers.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
June 18 2010 05:46 GMT
#14
I always find it way more fun to play with friends. But unlike you I don't find my self in misery when I play strangers. I totally understands what you are saying tho.

Which is why I was so pissed when one of the sc2 patches removed our ability to add friends via input.. AND reset/wiped all my previous friends/got rid of identifies. effectively disconnected me from all the friends I've made through beta until that point. They know we are going to lose all our friends on beta with no way to add/find them again (except extreme luck), and didn't even give out a warning. Mannered and skilled ppl can be hard to find.. sigh... after that i didn't really play anymore beta.



Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
June 18 2010 05:51 GMT
#15
This blog has inspired me to go play SCBW again (and try midgame transitions into dweb vs terran!)
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3456 Posts
June 18 2010 06:07 GMT
#16
Excellent blog, Chef.
I think we should play starcraft. ;D
Do you irc?
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 18 2010 06:17 GMT
#17
Except that I'm one of the players who enjoy slow paced safe macro games (especially mech tvz from both sides) I agree with most of your blog, 5/5 (;
In the woods, there lurks..
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
June 18 2010 06:22 GMT
#18
I will play you all the time.

We have history.

you ate cakes at my house fuck.
Each day gets better : )
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
June 18 2010 06:27 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
June 18 2010 06:38 GMT
#20
On June 18 2010 15:22 ella_guru wrote:
I will play you all the time.

We have history.

you ate cakes at my house fuck.

It's supposed to be
Syllables: five seven five.
Or were you joking?
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 22h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 169
SHIN 74
Codebar 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 6315
Calm 4252
Bisu 1944
Jaedong 852
EffOrt 552
FanTaSy 529
actioN 514
firebathero 419
Rush 248
Mini 247
[ Show more ]
Light 211
Larva 193
ZerO 175
Snow 173
Soulkey 163
Sexy 81
Mong 77
Pusan 53
Sea.KH 53
ToSsGirL 48
Sharp 41
Hyun 36
yabsab 33
Killer 25
sorry 25
Terrorterran 22
Shinee 21
Trap 21
Hm[arnc] 17
Shine 17
Noble 14
scan(afreeca) 14
Aegong 9
zelot 6
Icarus 3
Dota 2
Gorgc2568
Dendi1048
XaKoH 564
qojqva127
Counter-Strike
x6flipin722
markeloff143
kRYSTAL_90
edward41
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King77
Other Games
singsing2834
olofmeister1201
hiko533
B2W.Neo460
dupreeh320
Pyrionflax296
crisheroes275
byalli252
Hui .133
KnowMe115
QueenE50
ZerO(Twitch)15
Liquid`VortiX10
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 772
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 75
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1529
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
22h 12m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 11h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 22h
The PondCast
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.