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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly. There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:00 DropBear wrote: Hello everyone. I strongly disagree with town roleblocker being forced to claim, let alone not using their power. Having been one in past games that actually managed to block mafia KP I can testify to the usefulness of using this power. With the added possibility of jailkeeper and mafia roleblocker any claim could be complete bogus anyway and would be very difficult to verify. If you are town roleblocker do not claim! One thing I would like to say about how we go about things, please don't overpost. Say what you need to say and shut up. Be concise and clear. This does not mean don't post, nor does it mean don't post often. It means don't post crap that doesn't need to be said. Stuff like this isn't necessary and clogs up your filter, please don't do it. You haven't played a game with me before, so I'll let it slide, but I'm fairly notorious for harping on people as scum for using smiley faces. Also, no need to be the fun police  | ||
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DropBear
Australia4372 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote: I don't think anyone is saying roleblocker should never, under any circumstances, use their power. But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly. There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads. People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzaw talismania | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4372 Posts
On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing: since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:14 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi, @Dropbear, @Risen Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts. I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4372 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:14 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi, @Dropbear, @Risen Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts. For mine I have no idea yet, we are only 3 pages in or so? As to gonzaw's post, I think he is trying too hard. A hello post is extremely common and says absolutely nothing about alignment. Give them time. Points for effort mate but really a bit much so early. As to your post on marv, I completely disagree. Attacking a stupid plan is fine. He might still be mafia, who knows? But I disagree with your reasoning as to why he is. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:22 DropBear wrote: For mine I have no idea yet, we are only 3 pages in or so? As to gonzaw's post, I think he is trying too hard. A hello post is extremely common and says absolutely nothing about alignment. Give them time. Points for effort mate but really a bit much so early. As to your post on marv, I completely disagree. Attacking a stupid plan is fine. He might still be mafia, who knows? But I disagree with your reasoning as to why he is. I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this" I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:14 DropBear wrote: People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzaw talismania Then I completely disagree with them. I'm still not positive they mean that there is a never a situation where RB can be useful, but if they think that then I encourage them to think harder. On July 12 2012 15:14 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi, @Dropbear, @Risen Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts. No, I really don't have much to add. First impressions mean virtually nothing in this game. Its all about pattern recognition and connecting the dots. The only things that have thrown up yellow flags so far were people proposing less than optimal (read: bad) policy plans, ie talis, but I don't feel that was necessarily out of a scum mindset, just didn't think it through very well. However, like I said, its about patterns in behavior which is why I keep notes the way I do (which you saw in NMM XIX). | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I'm no longer suspicious of Risen. His recent posting reads townie to me. The last 3 posts have been direct responses with response times of 4 minutes, 4 minutes, and 3 minutes. Additionally, the substance of these 3 posts is somewhat controversial and could catch him some flak (having no reads, wanting to make connections first, thinking dropbear is suspicious). It would take guts as scum to make such posts so quickly. Risen gives me the feeling he is completely unafraid, even though gonzaw and I previously voiced suspicions of him. So now I'm thinking townie on him. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote: Then I completely disagree with them. I'm still not positive they mean that there is a never a situation where RB can be useful, but if they think that then I encourage them to think harder. Obviously there are exceptions. If there are 2 "very obvious scum" or something (and only 2 scum remain) then he can try to RB those. But him trying to RB at random on N1 or even on N2 seems too risky to me, specially if that guys doesn't have very good reads (and isn't lucky). @Dropbear: I don't like your attitude. You just busted into the thread, basically discredited everything everybody said, and discredited every accusation anybody else has done, and that's it. All the while acting like you own the place or something (without actually taking charge). However you are not progressing at all, you are just complaining. Actually lets get the ball rolling (this thread is VERY silent so far, hopefully this changes that): ##Vote: Dropbear | ||
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Vivax
22080 Posts
##Vote | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote: There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls? ##Vote Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
I am in Europe, so I will be asleep at times when most of you are active. I work at CERN so I will be busy a lot of the time that I'm awake. At night before sleep is about the only time I can be relied on to post, although I'll try and do more of this sort of long-post-from-the-bus as long as the thread doesn't get too big for my phone to cache the "all pages" view. So much for the lurking. I'm curious though - why do you accuse me of "actively" lurking? Is there a reason for you thinking I was "active" at the time of your post? Or was it just because you wanted to justify your vote on me, and "active" lurking is scummier than "normal" lurking, which is much closer to an accurate description? | ||
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Vivax
22080 Posts
##Vote Miltonkram Well you said you were watching something on tv yesterday and would start calling out scum soon, so I thought you were monitoring the game. Anyway, that was a pretty informative post about marv, you have my seal of approval for unlurking. Now I wanna see something from Milton :p. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 12 2012 17:21 Vivax wrote: ##unvote strongandbig ##Vote Miltonkram Well you said you were watching something on tv yesterday and would start calling out scum soon, so I thought you were monitoring the game. Anyway, that was a pretty informative post about marv, you have my seal of approval for unlurking. Now I wanna see something from Milton :p. He said when he joined that he was going to be afk for 12-24 hours when the game started. | ||
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