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On January 10 2012 08:16 Brett wrote:
Personally, I don't see the big deal... If they are competent enough to pass exams (which in my experience were usually between 60-80% of the final mark) then all they really did was spare themselves some time...
If they are incompetent, the exam or workplace will sort them out.
This is what I learned from the last thread about someone paying someone to write his final thesis for him. The people paying others to do their homework for them are the ones that pass the tests and exams easily but are just too lazy or don't have time to do the homework. It's not like you have the morons failing all the tests paying people to do their homework, because like others have said, they still arn't gonna pass with tests/exams involved.
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I know it sounds cheesy but cheating will catch up with them eventually. I know a group of people that though they were beating the system by cheating in first year but I guess none of them thought ahead to third or fourth year. By cheating I mean they got one guy to do all the homework I heard they cheated on some midterms not sure about finals, they're usually better supervised. Anyways I was in a fourth year biochem class with a girl I know cheated during most of first year and she failed that class miserably. I really don't even know how she got in that class she had no idea what was going on. At the end of the semester the prof posted the grades distribution and someone got 12% I have no doubt that was her, the next lowest mark was a 42%.
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This is nothing compared to people getting hired to write essays for college applicants (and sometimes even write up the whole application). Education (and anything involved in bettering someone's resume) is corrupt, that's just the way it is.
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On January 10 2012 09:06 Parnage wrote:
The entire Education system can be summed up by the fact that it looks better for the majority of your students to both graduate and do so with high grades. In the lower learning this means you'll get more funding, more stuff and generally the feeling that man you sure are special. In the high end it's just replaced with wanting students to pay huge sums of money to take classes they don't need for degrees that in many cases can not and should not be learned from a classroom.
Ethics went out the window when they started letting credit companies pay to be on campuses, or when it was decided that it's okay to fill the halls of higher academia with educators who are at best dubious choices for the role.
This is just filling the need that is needed, cheating like this will prepare you for the world around you far more then any course on the deep meanings on the writings of a man that half the people who you will call boss couldn't tell you a thing about themselves. You don't actually do anything if you can pay someone else to do it or figure out a way to game the system. If you can cheat and get away with it, do it. You'll often learn more just by the effort put in to not be caught.
I don't mean to sound rude and crash about it but let's face it. You can get away with it why wouldn't you do it? That's how the world works, and more then likely you'll get ahead and if it isn't hurting anyone then why not? Ethics are all fun and well but ethics never put food on the table(unless you wrote a paper for someone about ethics..)
Your post is full of falsehoods.
Getting into academia as a lecturer is one of the most competitive and selective jobs you can apply for. You need to have a relevant PhD to even be glanced at, and there are very few openings at respectable research universities.
I don't see how cheating will prepare you for anything other than cheating, and covering your ass. Covering your ass is something I think about a lot, without ever having cheated. You will not learn more by cheating, in fact you won't learn anything. Cheating doesn't tell you how to solve a partial differential equation, or analyze a time series, or write a general insurance contract, or how to design an evidence-based policy response to depressed customer demand, or code a video game.
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On January 10 2012 14:30 novabossa wrote:
This is nothing compared to people getting hired to write essays for college applicants (and sometimes even write up the whole application). Education (and anything involved in bettering someone's resume) is corrupt, that's just the way it is.
I don't think we should get into a fight about whose country is better, but in Australia you get a university admission score, and if you're above the cut-off for the course you get in.
No phony applications or essays required, just your score based on exams and assessments.
I don't see why university should admit based on fancy-worded letters as opposed to who has a higher score, i.e. academic merit. None of this, "I was captain of the dental hygiene club so I'll write it in my letter, justifying my worth, and the reason I should be admitted into this university".
While paying someone to write an admission essay is very wrong, it's nowhere near as bad as getting someone to complete an assignment that contributes to your marks, for example.
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The discussion here seems to be centered on diong homework for college/university students. I don't think this is an issue, since in most cases, whether you get your degree or not is determined by your performance in tests and not by your homework. And if you manage to cheat your way to your degree, it will catch up to them later if they didn't aquire the knowledge they needed.
But another thing I'd like to mention is homework in middle/high school. I'm currently in my last year in the Gymnasium here in Germany which is like high school for you US folks. But basically up to this point, homework never taught me anything. Most of the time homework is just a tedius task, you have to do: for example if I know how to add to 2 numbers I don't need to do 50 simple additions as homework, as it will not teach me anything. And most teacher don't really care if you completed your homework good or bad, or how much time you invested, or what you've learned doing your homework, they just care if you do it or not.
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I hope these cheaters are at least paying attention in class!
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What is the URL... because it's horrible...
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Belgium2230 Posts
If school wasn't such cesspool of futility such things wouldn't be necessary. I see nothing wrong with exploiting the system for all it's weaknesses.
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On January 10 2012 22:32 ulfryc wrote:
The discussion here seems to be centered on diong homework for college/university students. I don't think this is an issue, since in most cases, whether you get your degree or not is determined by your performance in tests and not by your homework. And if you manage to cheat your way to your degree, it will catch up to them later if they didn't aquire the knowledge they needed.
But another thing I'd like to mention is homework in middle/high school. I'm currently in my last year in the Gymnasium here in Germany which is like high school for you US folks. But basically up to this point, homework never taught me anything. Most of the time homework is just a tedius task, you have to do: for example if I know how to add to 2 numbers I don't need to do 50 simple additions as homework, as it will not teach me anything. And most teacher don't really care if you completed your homework good or bad, or how much time you invested, or what you've learned doing your homework, they just care if you do it or not.
I don't think anyone cares if you cheat on homework, which amounts to nothing.
I certainly don't.
It only matters when it contributes to marks.
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When it comes to diploma thesis it matters. When it comes to highschool homework it doesn't.
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It is ridiculous that someone with extra cash lying around can simply pay to have their work done. Being a student is like a job, if you slack off and have someone else doing your work, then you aren't worth employing. I hope that any students that get caught with this are punished severally.
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On January 10 2012 23:11 TheLOLas wrote:
It is ridiculous that someone with extra cash lying around can simply pay to have their work done. Being a student is like a job, if you slack off and have someone else doing your work, then you aren't worth employing. I hope that any students that get caught with this are punished severally.
From my other thread, this is what someone wrote (substituting school for game):
Welcome to capitalism? I mean I'm serious, trading money for time and vice versa is completely standard in almost all aspects of life.
It makes sense it would transfer into schooling as well.
People are always going to do this. If you're rich enough you won't care about its legality. It makes sense for schools and universities to legalize it...
Couldn't resist.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301467¤tpage=2
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On January 10 2012 09:06 Parnage wrote:
I don't mean to sound rude and crash about it but let's face it. You can get away with it why wouldn't you do it? That's how the world works, and more then likely you'll get ahead and if it isn't hurting anyone then why not? Ethics are all fun and well but ethics never put food on the table(unless you wrote a paper for someone about ethics..)
I'd really just like to focus on this part of your argument. In this case the idea that you're not hurting anyone is not true. Most universities grade on a curve so by students taking a higher mark they do not deserve this hurts everyone else working toward their mark fairly. So in this case the argument doesn't work because you are hurting people even if indirectly which is usually the case and part of the reason we have Ethics in the first place, to minimize harm/increase happiness of all those affected by a given action.
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It's a bit more honorable than cheating, but still... it's really the same thing
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I don't see anything wrong with it. I never gave two shits whether people were cheating or not. In the end, I am competing with them for a job and they haven't learned what I have. They may get hired based on academics, but if they aren't competent, no productive employer is going to keep them and then they've just pissed away thousands on an education they didn't get.
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I came here to see if I could make money...
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i think its fine, cuz if they dont care then w/e and plus its their life and money. i once got paid 2000 to do an online course, was pretty sweet since it took like 3 weeks to finish it haha
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Isnt this like cheating in an exam since assignments and essays might be considered as part of evaluation for gpa as exams would?
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EPT
