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Patch 1.2.0 released! - Page 32

Forum Index > SC2 General
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sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
January 11 2011 11:28 GMT
#621
On January 11 2011 20:07 BetterFasterStronger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2011 20:00 Silent_Marine wrote:
+ Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing.
-> where is micro to kill repairing scv ? just press attack ....


this change was really needed though. It was impossible to kill a PF without Storm, Fungle Growth, Collosis, and Ultras/banes ect.

I am really disappointed that there is no ladder reset. A lot of people including myself took this as time to relax and play casually. Getting back to the top is going to be difficult. Im honestly not getting why we waited this long for chat channels though. They were out in the PTR and thats really the only thing thats going to change. The patches are not going to affect anything (unless you are idra and think that 10 second phoenix will destroy the match-ups)


To be honest, the claim that there will be a ladder-reset with 1.2 has always been backed up with....nothing at all but hot air.

I'm 100% fine the way it is right now because of two reasons:
First, I want to play casually and test all the new stuff (especially phoenixes, will definitely try to incorporate them better in PvT vs 111 builds; also in PvZ one stargate will now be much better suited to provide the necessary number of phoenixes for effective harassment). I don't want to start at zero when I haven't had time to play around with changes, even if they are not that big. Also due to phoenix-buildtime-reduction, there will definitely be some BOs that lead to quick wins in PvZ. Zergs will have to adapt. I'd hate so see some toss players grinding up and zerg players struggling just because the pro-zergs haven't had the time to develop decent counter-strategies.
Second, there has never been a Blizzard-patch that didn't introduce one or more minor bugs. Since 1.2 is pretty huge, I wouldn't be surprised if they did screw up something (remember phoenix graviton bug, and this was only a small patch?). Now it would be so extremely annoying if a ladder-reset were done exactly at the time when new bugs turned up. I'd like a ladder-reset once the dust has settled, once bugs are fixed (or its confirmed that there are none) and once people had time to adjust to the changes.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Xswordy
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom425 Posts
January 11 2011 11:28 GMT
#622
Blizzard should make a simple notification pop up before patching saying something like "The servers will be shut down in 15 minutes for maintenance , please log out." , that wouldn't be too hard to make...
petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
January 11 2011 11:29 GMT
#623
On January 11 2011 20:28 Xswordy wrote:
Blizzard should make a simple notification pop up before patching saying something like "The servers will be shut down in 15 minutes for maintenance , please log out." , that wouldn't be too hard to make...


it usually does do this.. maybe it disables them when you disable the pop ups?
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
KezseN
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Singapore1450 Posts
January 11 2011 11:33 GMT
#624
O well, 8 hours.. time to patch the SEA version so i don't have to wait for the US to patch :D
To Skeleton King: "Have you considered employment at Apple?"
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
January 11 2011 11:34 GMT
#625
I personally don't understand why so many of you are looking that much forward to the (never announced) ladder reset since only the points not the MMR is set to 0. Only setting MMR to 0 would be nice for a restart in my opinion
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-11 11:36:33
January 11 2011 11:35 GMT
#626
sorry, wrong thread
Do you really want chat rooms?
Alphasquad
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria505 Posts
January 11 2011 11:38 GMT
#627
way more than a ladder reset i would have appreciated 1-2 good maps in the pool...
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
January 11 2011 11:42 GMT
#628
On January 11 2011 20:34 Markus138 wrote:
I personally don't understand why so many of you are looking that much forward to the (never announced) ladder reset since only the points not the MMR is set to 0. Only setting MMR to 0 would be nice for a restart in my opinion


Simply because I have 1200 bonus points - I play one game vs a 1400 player with roughly the same amount of bonus points. The next game I play vs a 2700 player with zero bonus points.

Retarded? Oh yes definitely, 100%. Points have inflated to a point where they have lost all meaning. Earlier (August/September) you could say around 1500 is good, everybody above is pro, around 1000 is mid diamond. Resembled chess. Now it's just ridiculous, nobody really knows how to value ranking any more. The only thing that's still possible is determine the high diamond players at I'd say ~3200 and above. The meaning of everything below has been reduced to some random number.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Lurk
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany359 Posts
January 11 2011 12:08 GMT
#629
On January 11 2011 19:42 sleepingdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2011 19:03 Lurk wrote:
Yes of course this can and will happen. But you have to ask yourself, is that really a problem (for yourself) ? Other than taking up space in the ladders and the players in question being able to brag about being in masters (and everyone knowing the system knowing they don't deserve being there), it doesn't directly affect the people actually playing.


It becomes a problem because of "fixed" percentages per league - if there only is a certain percentage of diamond players in masters league, this means that this certain player "takes up" a spot in masters league that indeed belongs to another player. Since there's no way his MMR ever decreases, he'll be in masters league..."forever" unless at a point in the very far away future there are so many players playing sc2 that there are enough among them with an insanely high MMR to kick him out.

There's an underlying, very fundamental problem with league-placement being percentage-wise based on MMR. Since there's no decay/decrease of MMR if you just stop playing, inactive players with a high MMR will "block" spots in higher leagues as long as this system exists. Even if they don't want to (this is important!), they can't just drop out until they actively delete their accounts. And why in God's name would they do that?


This isn't a problem if you think about it. Why ? Because players go inactive all the time in all leagues. So while a few people are inactive in master's league, there are probably 19 times as much people inactive in diamond, thus there are more places in master's to begin with due to inactive people.

I don't think there is any reason for higher ranked players to go inactive more often than for lower ranked players. So their distribution amongst the leagues should be the same as for active players.
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
January 11 2011 12:08 GMT
#630
Does anybody know why Blizzard is not using something like ELO ranking?
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
alepov
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands1132 Posts
January 11 2011 12:17 GMT
#631
On January 11 2011 21:08 graNite wrote:
Does anybody know why Blizzard is not using something like ELO ranking?

mmr does work pretty similar to elo
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
January 11 2011 12:23 GMT
#632
On January 11 2011 21:08 Lurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2011 19:42 sleepingdog wrote:
On January 11 2011 19:03 Lurk wrote:
Yes of course this can and will happen. But you have to ask yourself, is that really a problem (for yourself) ? Other than taking up space in the ladders and the players in question being able to brag about being in masters (and everyone knowing the system knowing they don't deserve being there), it doesn't directly affect the people actually playing.


It becomes a problem because of "fixed" percentages per league - if there only is a certain percentage of diamond players in masters league, this means that this certain player "takes up" a spot in masters league that indeed belongs to another player. Since there's no way his MMR ever decreases, he'll be in masters league..."forever" unless at a point in the very far away future there are so many players playing sc2 that there are enough among them with an insanely high MMR to kick him out.

There's an underlying, very fundamental problem with league-placement being percentage-wise based on MMR. Since there's no decay/decrease of MMR if you just stop playing, inactive players with a high MMR will "block" spots in higher leagues as long as this system exists. Even if they don't want to (this is important!), they can't just drop out until they actively delete their accounts. And why in God's name would they do that?


This isn't a problem if you think about it. Why ? Because players go inactive all the time in all leagues. So while a few people are inactive in master's league, there are probably 19 times as much people inactive in diamond, thus there are more places in master's to begin with due to inactive people.

I don't think there is any reason for higher ranked players to go inactive more often than for lower ranked players. So their distribution amongst the leagues should be the same as for active players.


Actually your comparison doesn't really work...why? Because inactive players don't "increase" the overall number of players. Even if there are 19 times as much people inactive in diamond, then this is a problem as well - but now for platinum players. If there are 19 times as much inactive diamond players, then this wouldn't result in there being "more" overall diamond players.
By the same logic, there aren't "more" master-league spots just because there are inactive players. This is because being in diamond is ALSO percentage based, there's an overall percentage (I believe around 5% or something like that) of ALL registered players that have finished their placement matches who are in diamond.
Your comparison would make sense if there was a certain "threshold" to get into diamond, so that basicly an infinite amount of people could get there if they were skilled enough. But that's not the way it works. Everything is percentage-based, which means that inactive people with high MMR are "veiling" ratings everywhere.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
maje.stic
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany1 Post
January 11 2011 12:27 GMT
#633
On January 11 2011 21:17 alepov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2011 21:08 graNite wrote:
Does anybody know why Blizzard is not using something like ELO ranking?

mmr does work pretty similar to elo



MMR is hidden, ELO is not....
ZoomDog
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia25 Posts
January 11 2011 12:29 GMT
#634
Europe always ALWAYS gets the short end of the stick concerning everything blizzard does.

Hah, no way. Up until SC2 Australians have had to connect to NA and deal with horrible pings and prime time maintenances. Getting a patch late is hardly a huge blow.
alepov
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands1132 Posts
January 11 2011 12:29 GMT
#635
On January 11 2011 21:27 maje.stic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2011 21:17 alepov wrote:
On January 11 2011 21:08 graNite wrote:
Does anybody know why Blizzard is not using something like ELO ranking?

mmr does work pretty similar to elo



MMR is hidden, ELO is not....

thanks for the clarification.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Lurk
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany359 Posts
January 11 2011 12:31 GMT
#636
No, unless there is some underlying factor that results in people with high rating going inactive more often, it's not a problem.

Everything is percentage based, that means if we say have a total of 100k players and 10% of them are inactive. 7% of them are in diamond, meaning 7000, 700 of those are inactive. This also means that 5% of those diamond players get promoted to master's, 350. So we have 35 inactive master league players and 315 legitimate master league players.

Assuming the system would automatically kick out inactive players, we would only have a player base of 90000 (minus the 10k inactive ones). This results in only 6300 diamond spots (7%), now only filled with active players. Of those, the best 5% advance to master's. That's 315 master league players for you, exclusively active ones.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-11 12:37:55
January 11 2011 12:37 GMT
#637
edit: oops wrong thread
Stork[gm]
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
January 11 2011 12:38 GMT
#638
Europe day comes earlier but patch comes later.^^
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
January 11 2011 12:40 GMT
#639
On January 11 2011 21:31 Lurk wrote:
Assuming the system would automatically kick out inactive players, we would only have a player base of 90000 (minus the 10k inactive ones). This results in only 6300 diamond spots (7%), now only filled with active players. Of those, the best 5% advance to master's. That's 315 master league players for you, exclusively active ones.


If you put it this way you are correct - nevertheless just re-do the maths when you assume that the system doesn't "kick out" inactive players but re-values their skill

Meaning, for simplification, just imagine every inactive player being dropped one league due to automatic decay and players from the lower leagues advancing instead. See what I mean? The inactive players shouldn't get "removed" but their MMR should decay when they don't play. Then you should come to the same conclusions as I do.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
ZoomDog
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia25 Posts
January 11 2011 12:44 GMT
#640
Ugh, if you're scrolled up in a chat channel and someone says something it instantly scrolls back down. Makes it painful to catch up on stuff when you've been AFK.
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