EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 30
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
My scum picks so far are BM, Risen, Daniel and I would like to lynch/vig them in that order | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 23 2012 02:05 gonzaw wrote: How about we do this so all of us are happy?: -We lynch Risen now -A vig shoots BM tonight I don't see how my case was weak. The way I see it Risen seemed to fake his "aggressiveness" against laya. I think this because he changed his behaviour very quickly, going from "guy seemingly afraid to post" to "aggressive OMGUSer" in a matter of minutes (so to speak). Anyways, I'm going away now, so this will be my last post in a while. Good luck town, hopefully you don't do something stupid while I'm gone  And what if Bill Murray is a GF? What should our vigi do after BM is shot but doesn't die? | ||
|
Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
| ||
|
ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
Bill Murray is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it over there and leaving the town alone. VE is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it in such a way that the town cannot function efficiently. Disruptive insane play is far more lynch worthy than weird incomprehensible im-gonna-do-whatever-the-fuck-i-want play. @paqman: If a vig shoots BM and he doesn't die, it makes sense that the vig would claim it in thread. A jail keeper would be forced to admit to jailing BM in thread, but I can't see that happening. If the vig claim is true, we lynch BM and he flips GF. If it's not, BM flips town, and the next day we lynch the counterclaiming scum. Win-win. | ||
|
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
A Bill Murray lynch is easy to hop on and that is for a good reason. He seemed eager to play before the game starts but he has done nothing to show that he even cares about town winning. The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk. | ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
I'm dropping my vote on marv, because other players are looking way more suspicious. He has also started posting much better, and I think his earlier response to my and BJ's cases was genuine. VE's claim makes absolutely no sense at all to me, and I can't see how it, or his subsequent behavior, benefits the town at all. Other players have made their cases well enough, so I'm not going to rehash their points, but VE is one of the more scummy players here right now. The only problem is, unlike LI, this claim makes no sense, doesn't advance a scum agenda, and isn't being supported by other mafia members. No one is even trying to defend him, except johnnywup, and I didn't see a scum plan out of their previous interactions. Would scum bus VE this early? It just doesn't make nearly as much sense as his actions in LI. The other possibility is that VE and johnnywup are both scum, playing less than optimally, with one or more of their teammates lurking heavily. In fact, the more I look at johnnywup's filter, it's pretty condemning. Starting from the second page of his filter, he puts a lot of suspicion on Paqman, who he calls "super scummy." However, he doesn't vote for him. He then says that Risen and St.Daniel are both scummy, raises doubts about Paqman's voting, and states that marv is looking better. He then immediately votes for marvellosity after BJ's second case. Why is johnny willing to revise his reads and immediately vote based on others' reasoning, while completely failing to push and vote for his own scumreads? He earlier was going to post a case on Sentinel, but never did so, apparently having felt that his evidence wasn't firm enough, but he continues to view Sentinel suspiciously, and even considers voting for him at ghost's request, if he presents a case. Again, we see a pattern where johnnywup is entirely willing to sheep other players, but doesn't want to make the first move. Johnny's reasoning for not having to post his case, "I'm being transparent, and I think my case is bad, so I'm not going to post it," is fair enough, but it leaves a pretty gaping hole in his argument: If Sentinel was scummy to him, but he couldn't make a compelling case, then what about his other scumreads? If johnny thinks Sentinel is innocent, then that must mean that he finds other players more suspicious. However, he doesn't pursue any of them! He doesn't write any cases, or ask any questions, or anything. Johnny's voteswitch to BM comes totally out of the blue. He doesn't say anything about why he's unvoting marv, despite earlier being more sure of it than he was of his own case against Paqman. And guess what, he immediately is certain of BM's guilt... but only after others made the first move. In between his posts where he is absolutely certain of someone being scum, he posts a bunch of not-particularly-helpful one-liners, but he hasn't done any real scumhunting of his own at all. Besides his defense of VE, he hasn't really taken an independent stance on anything. That, coupled with his sheeping, is enough to convince me. ##Unvote: marvellosity ##Vote: johnnywup | ||
|
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 02:11 PaqMan wrote: And what if Bill Murray is a GF? What should our vigi do after BM is shot but doesn't die? There is no need to worry about that now, it isn't helpful. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
Marv needs to die. So I don't know why the dicks you guys are suddenly sitting on marv's cock. I'm gonna break it down for you real quick why Marv is scum and needs to die. First off, literally everything he posted before my last pont was shitty dick scum posting (mixed in with some crybaby whining about how I called him out about his shitty dick scum posting). I pushed (and am pushing) him aggressively, and he decries this as some sort of unreasonable inhuman play. I will not apologize for what I am, though-- because what I am is RIGHT. In any case, here are his 4 posts he's made, including his first real case. On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Alright. Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan" Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out. There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense. ##Vote: VisceraEyes Oh shit, Marv finally did something. Let's take a look at the core components of his justification for his vote here. Remember that this is before VE's ass-retarded roleclaim (which I'll get to in a moment), so Marv has to rely on other reasoning to explain his vote. His reasoning is... VE's objection to gonzaw's case is scummy. That's his entire reasoning. Well, that and "I don't have any other scumreads". So, when we break it down here, what is Marv really saying? He's saying "I don't have any good scumreads, but VE did something vaguely weird, so I'm gonna vote him. Please don't call me out for my shitty dick case that has no real analysis, or the fact that I still haven't posted any real analysis." In fact, here, I'll quote you what he previously said about VE, the stuff that he's referencing in his case here: + Show Spoiler [Marv's supporting case elements] + On April 22 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote: One thing I didn't like about the whole gonzaw - VE exchange was VE's pretty bad breakdown of gonzaw's plan. It seemed to amount to this - if JK doesn't agree with the plan, then the plan is bad. But... the whole idea of the plan was that everyone agreed to it, so the JK was obviously on board, it was a terrible criticism. Looking further into VE's filter, I didn't see any further substantial objection, and he went forward to accusing gonzaw for his 'scumslip', which was at best minor, and can generally be read as unimportant. On April 22 2012 08:17 marvellosity wrote: Paragraph 2: I found VE's objection and lack of continuing through bad. Do I find it somewhat scummy? Yes. Do I have an entire case to present on the matter? No. Well, shit. It kinda looks like Marv doesn't actually think VE is scum. He says that that most of VE's filter is fine, and he says VE's particular statement is "somewhat" scummy, and he doesn't have an entire case. And that's correct-- he doesn't have an entire case. These sparse few sentences are the only things he ever says on VE leading up to his vote. Remember, this is before VE's retardclaim. So, in summary, when Marv voted VE, he gave no reasons that a town Marv would find acceptable, and basically was just trying to shrug off the suspicion and pressure that was on him by appearing to take a stance. The only reasonable explanation for Marv voting VE with the case he presented is that Marv is scum trying to look less scummy. A town player would, you know, actually have a reason for his vote. This vote is probably even scummier than every post Marv made before, and that's really saying something. It really is. Now, the rest of Marv's posts after his case on VE actually aren't so bad. They're not really good or useful, but contextualized in Marv's travesty of a posting history, they're not so bad. + Show Spoiler [Marv's other posts] + On April 22 2012 09:54 marvellosity wrote: Ok, sadly I have to go to bed and not argue like fuck against my lynch. Some thoughts 1) there is currently no opposition to my lynch. If I'm scum, apparently scum are happy for me to die 2) there is VE's inconsistent attack on gonzaw's case with absolutely no further explanation. So, my vote on VE 3) I'm usually very active. So I had a bloody social life for a day and I'm being crucified for one-liners which I've expanded upon 4) BH is tunnelling me like fuck. I can't even believe he's scum because it's just ridiculous 5) There are a bunch of inactive players who are being given an easy ride when apparently i'm easy to lynch. Why? To those who aren't BH - I had little time, and since I've done my best to explain my feelings on what I've seen. Please, if you're going to lynch me, at least demonstrate my scummy motives. This is basically just Marv whining about the fact that there are 5 votes on him and making statements that he could as easily make as scum as town. Interestingly, though he makes the point that there is "no opposition" to his lynch, (when in fact he has only 5 votes) counter wagons on BM and VE are already in the process of forming. On April 22 2012 19:37 marvellosity wrote: I don't really understand the Claim either. The thread consensus had already arrived at the fact that we weren't going to mass claim vigis. Why then the need to claim Jailkeeper? Just on the offchance that if scum weren't going to shoot him tonight, they definitely will now? Completely mistimed claim, as he didn't have to 'stop' a massclaim plan at this point. Bad bad bad This... this post actually makes some goddamn sense. I guess it's the exception that proves the rule. Marv isn't really being helpful here, but if he had actually made a case on VE, this would be a good supporting piece of evidence. On April 23 2012 00:14 marvellosity wrote: Claiming when you did just makes no sense though. It was quite clear gonzaw's plan was not going to be implemented, so the claim was completely unnecessary. You said "scumhunting wins games". Yes, but having blue roles that could prevent Mafia KP is also pretty useful, and discounting that is not sensible. You've also managed to throw suspicion on a lot of people without making a compelling case either way. Meaningless post, but he's interacting with VE, the target of his vote. Overall, these posts don't particular indicate to me that Marv is town, but they don't indicate he's scum either. He's gotten a little better at hiding his uselessness. So, If you read over this case, plus: My first case on Marv: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=14#270 + Show Spoiler [My first case on Marv] + On April 21 2012 20:13 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marvellosity. Let me talk to you. No correction let me talk AT you. what are you doing this game? Let's look at your filter + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Mattchew, I thought we were gonna have a long, happy, and romp-filled relationship, then you make me click on multiple spoilers. On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/ On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ^--- These posts are short and worthless. ^--- this post is actually correct, but interestingly, despite the fact that it's the right time to talk about the game mechanics... you never talk about the game mechanics. You ask some unhelpful questions and echo worthless obvious shit other people have said, but otherwise you're deadweight. Where's your contributions, Marv? Where's the discussion that it is "absolute the right time" to talk about? or do you only have inane questions? ^=== HOLY SHIT this question is bad. holy shit. Of course there's good circumstances to make a vig shot! SHOOT A SCUM GUY. Christ. Even if you shoot a godfather, at least that's a data point (not quite a DT check's worth, because it might hasve been roleblock), and if you shoot a goon, hey, you shot a goon. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Typically this is where I say "you can do better, marv" but really, ANYONE could do better. You're shitting on the town and trying to build up a post count without saying ANYTHING. You're lurking in plain sight. ##vote: marvellosity. -Blazinghand My second case on Marv: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=19#377 + Show Spoiler [My second case on Marv] + On April 22 2012 08:09 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marv is definitely scum. even moreso now that he's posted more scummy scum scum scummitude His first post on return: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 04:02 marvellosity wrote: Woa, I go away and I rack up the votes. I'm up in my great nation's capital city right now celebrating a close friend's birthday, and yes I am sitting here on my laptop while other people are sitting around chatting and drinking, so I've missed all the excitement. That said, my one-liners didn't come across overly helpful. I've just read through the last 7 pages of this thread I've missed and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the vigi business. My one-liners were one-liners because I haven't had time to grasp the issue at hand yet. Anyway, I'm going to play around in notepad with this vig business so I can actually take a stance and get back to you in the next few hours. Meaningless. Worthless excuses. All excuses are always worthless. His so-called contributing post: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote: Alright, my thoughts before dinner. From reading a few filters, it seems that a couple of people have arrived at the same conclusion as I am about to - whatever merits gonzaw's plan has, it's kinda pointless if it isn't gonna be agreed on by everyone, and by this stage it's clear it's not going to be. I am glad of all the conversation that's been had on the matter, because it means going forwards people will be able to critically analyse flips and night kills, so if nothing else that's a positive to marker. One thing I didn't like about the whole gonzaw - VE exchange was VE's pretty bad breakdown of gonzaw's plan. It seemed to amount to this - if JK doesn't agree with the plan, then the plan is bad. But... the whole idea of the plan was that everyone agreed to it, so the JK was obviously on board, it was a terrible criticism. Looking further into VE's filter, I didn't see any further substantial objection, and he went forward to accusing gonzaw for his 'scumslip', which was at best minor, and can generally be read as unimportant. To MidnightGladius (and VE because he will understand due to being involved with me in Newbie VI) and others - regarding my 'meta'. Have a look at my Space Station Mafia filter - also full of one-liners and not a lot useful, where I was townie. This is a product of not really knowing or understanding what was going on. In Newbie VI, my play in the first half was somewhat directionless and scummy, to the point where both dead blues had strong suspicions of me, as did the last remaining townie in lylo. Only in the second half of the game where I had plenty of material to work with (I like filters) did I manage to find the scum and make a convincing case. In Mafia LI, I replaced in for the start of Day 2 - there was already a lot of material to work with. Rounding off quickly, Matt's case on Paqman - it doesn't seem to have much merit. Reading through the case, I asked myself 'could Paqman have posted all this as town?' - and my answer was yes, it was all perfectly feasibly townie. I should mostly be available to read questions for most of the evening, so if people would like to quiz me, go ahead. I would quite like not to be lynched before I've even got started. So... this post. This actually doesn't look so bad at first but let's take a quick look at the part where he pushes a scumread, or points out some scummy play, or pressures anyone, or does anything other than summarize things other people have already said and defend himself: NOTHING That's right, This post is several paragraphs of cunning worthlessness. You probably read it and were like "hey, Looks like Marv isn't actually scum after all" but that's cause YOU GOT FOOLED. this guy is hussling us. This post doesn't DO ANYTHING TO HELP THE TOWN IN EVEN THE MOST REMOTE FASHION. And it does so on purpose. "how is this possible, BlazingJitsu??" here let me explain for you: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/keNKF.png) Oh wait here let me be more specific: PARAGRAPH ONE Worthless summarizing. He pats us on the back though for talking! But really, worthless, patronizing summarizing. PARAGRAPH TWO He states VE is like vaguely scummy but then says he's actually not, and neither is gonzaw. OH HEY THIS PARAGRAPH LITERALLY SAYS NOTHIGN. THIS PARAGRAPH LITERALLY SAYS NOTHING PARAGRAPH THREE YOU PUNK ASS MOTHER BONERIZERS This paragraph also says nothing. He is arguing about his own meta. PARAGRAPH FOUR THIS PARAGRAPH ALSO SAYS NOTHING. well, he says he might be around this evening or whatever. Marv, despite making two posts, one of which was decent sized, has actually NOT contributed since my original case against him. It just looks like he's contributing if you read his post quickly without thinking. This thing he's done? It's literally what scum would do. Marv is more certainly scum than he has ever been. In my mind, Marv is the scummiest scum scum scum in this game, and it's blantantly obvious to anyone who gives his filter and his recent "contributions" even a cursory analysis. ##STILL VOTING: MARVELLLOSITY ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RIH0y.jpg) ##STILL STILL VOTING: MARVELLLOSITY -Blazinghand I account for literally every post Marv's made this game. And I show that he's scummy scum and deserves to die a horrible death. ##still definitely voting the dicks out of: Marv -Blazinghand | ||
|
BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
Seriously, marv should be dead. | ||
|
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
We don't need another candidate right now. No doubt there are people that will not be back again before the deadline and there are people (Europeans) that will only be around for a few more hours. We need to consolidate our votes. We have two candidates in "danger": ViceraEyes who has 6 votes - one of which is him so that's only really 5 votes + Show Spoiler + slOosh marvellosity Bill Murray Ottoxlol layabout VisceraEyes BillMurruay who has 4 votes + Show Spoiler + Mattchew Janaan St. Daniel johnnywup We now have two people with two votes that stand an outside chance of being lynched Risen + Show Spoiler + gonzaw Mementoss marvellosity + Show Spoiler + BlazingJitsu BroodKingEXE We also have 4 players with a single vote Mattchew + Show Spoiler + PaqMan layabout + Show Spoiler + Risen +the OMGUS twin's [UoN]Sentinel he didn't change his vote to VE in the thread + Show Spoiler + ghost_403 ghost_403 + Show Spoiler + [UoN]Sentinel Anybody voting for somebody that stands no chance of being lynched needs to switch their vote. If the number of players on the leading candidates are so small then we as a town will have wasted our numbers advantage and given mafia the opportunity to control the lynch. | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM. VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive.Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. wtf?who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip. | ||
|
BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:03 Mattchew wrote: Hey blazing, have you taken a second to think about how you have been looking at marv through red lenses, therefore skewing your viewpoint and coming to unfair conclusions? Yes. I am entirely objective. If you have an objection to one of the statements in my case, make it. Pussyfooting around the issue isn't a legitimate objection, it is called "soft defending" and is unhelpful to both myself and Marv. -Blazinghand | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 23 2012 01:45 PaqMan wrote: Also, this is pure speculation, but what if BM is a GF? We're dismissing him and assuming our vigi (if we even have one) will shoot him. Gonzaw's case on Risen is bueno. Seeing as I'm the only one who supports a Mattchew lynch, Gonzaw's case is really tempting, more so than the other ones I've read. I'm gonna follow up on this and switch my vote for Risen. | ||
|
BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:16 PaqMan wrote: I'm gonna follow up on this and switch my vote for Risen. This is interesting, given that you are Marv's scumbuddy. -Blazinghand | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:05 BlazingJitsu wrote: Yes. I am entirely objective. If you have an objection to one of the statements in my case, make it. Pussyfooting around the issue isn't a legitimate objection, it is called "soft defending" and is unhelpful to both myself and Marv. -Blazinghand I know what soft defending is. I have never had a scum read on marv and I don't think his posts have been useless. This is why I think you are seeing his posts through clouded lenses. I think he has done a pretty decent job of showing his thought process and seems relatively open to posting (much more so of recent than in the beginning). I don't see him as having something to hide and I see a lot better candidates for todays lynch. I see you trying too hard and tunneling someone and seeing everything they do as scummy regardless of what it is. This makes you a bad townie imo | ||
| ||
