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[Q] why pros/Flash bunker rushing so much now? - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
January 21 2010 04:40 GMT
#41
Zergs are getting really really greedy now, so why the hell no bunker rush?
RIP eSTRO :(
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
January 21 2010 04:40 GMT
#42
There was like a month where Mind was just Bunker Rushing everyone. It was fantastic.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 21 2010 04:42 GMT
#43
It's just a minor anti-greed metagame shift (both for TvZ Bunker Rushes and ZvP Hydra Busts)

not really that surprising in my opinion

though I do agree (as a Terran player) that I'm surprised T's don't Bunker rush more often just as a general rule given how strong it is.
Creationism
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
China505 Posts
January 21 2010 04:45 GMT
#44
I think we see more bunker rushes as of recent because, well, we've been seeing Flash... and that's about it. Not like any other terrans pulled some big matches recently, Flash has been basically dominating.

In light of that, I think Flash alone makes the bunker rush work more than any other terran player. Flash is the kind of player that if you give him a LITTLE advantage and room, he takes it n rapes you in the ass with it. So zerg players want to fully capitalize in whatever way possible so that they have the highest chance of winning against Flash, which to be honest, isn't very high at all. And this Flash is the the Flash we saw when he won the OSL. Very smart and strategic with full use of his macro potential in his BoX series. Especially important because not only does he utilize his macro ability in a long macro game, he uses its shadow to gain short victories. And this is probably the highest level of strategy and intellect available in SC.
The hoi polloi is the plague upon the world.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
January 21 2010 04:48 GMT
#45
I really wonder what BOs Jaedong has in store for us. Flash is not only playing like a bonjwa but he's playing fearlessly. He was prepared to bunker rush kwanro 3 times in a row for God's sake. How is Jaedong supposed to deal with this? I'm thinking he's gonna come up with a variation of Zero and By.hero's 13 pool, gas, expand build. But it seems that flash's m&m control is too good for that. He'll know just the right amount of scv's to cut and he'll be prepared for it the next time (i.e. zero vs flash game 3).
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 21 2010 04:57 GMT
#46
On January 21 2010 12:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Where you 14CC and, if you scout and see the zerg 12 hatching, you place a bunker with your scouting SCV to throw your opponent off and make him pull drones, despite the fact that no marines are coming

If you 14cc, then you make a rax at like 15... if you build a bunker right after the rax, then the bunker would be so late that the Zerg wouldn't need to pull any drones and just shoo it away with his initial 6 lings. If you make the bunk before the rax, then the rax will be WAY too late. Bunker rushing after 144cc is nonsensical because there is no way you can ever make it work against a normal 12hatch 11/12 pool.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
January 21 2010 05:01 GMT
#47
Mind rape.

-If I don't 12hatch, I'll be really behind because Flash's macro is so flawless.

-I can't cheese Flash, his control is too good.

-Then maybe I should go pool first? But then I'll be behind economically, and Flash is too good to hand any advantage at all to...

-I guess I'll 12hatch. He wouldn't dare bunker rush again after he did it again so recently.

-FUCK

When was the last time someone tried cheesing Flash, anyway? It's uncanny how rarely it happens.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
January 21 2010 05:04 GMT
#48
Notice how Flash didn't bunker rush Calm in the MSL Semifinals?
Brood War loyalist
XinRan
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States530 Posts
January 21 2010 05:13 GMT
#49
On January 21 2010 14:01 Hinanawi wrote:When was the last time someone tried cheesing Flash, anyway? It's uncanny how rarely it happens.

lol, you don't remember the lair-first two hatch muta rushes that Zero and Calm did like every game against Flash? What about gas-steal to proxy robo by Movie?
"To be fair, Kal played like absolute garbage. His noted inconsistency and bad record versus Jaedong high fived into a cacophony of suck." - TwoToneTerran
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
January 21 2010 05:14 GMT
#50
On January 21 2010 13:57 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2010 12:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Where you 14CC and, if you scout and see the zerg 12 hatching, you place a bunker with your scouting SCV to throw your opponent off and make him pull drones, despite the fact that no marines are coming

If you 14cc, then you make a rax at like 15... if you build a bunker right after the rax, then the bunker would be so late that the Zerg wouldn't need to pull any drones and just shoo it away with his initial 6 lings. If you make the bunk before the rax, then the rax will be WAY too late. Bunker rushing after 144cc is nonsensical because there is no way you can ever make it work against a normal 12hatch 11/12 pool.


how can u make bunker before rax, when you need a rax to make a bunker?
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 21 2010 05:17 GMT
#51
On January 21 2010 14:14 saltywet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2010 13:57 koreasilver wrote:
On January 21 2010 12:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Where you 14CC and, if you scout and see the zerg 12 hatching, you place a bunker with your scouting SCV to throw your opponent off and make him pull drones, despite the fact that no marines are coming

If you 14cc, then you make a rax at like 15... if you build a bunker right after the rax, then the bunker would be so late that the Zerg wouldn't need to pull any drones and just shoo it away with his initial 6 lings. If you make the bunk before the rax, then the rax will be WAY too late. Bunker rushing after 144cc is nonsensical because there is no way you can ever make it work against a normal 12hatch 11/12 pool.


how can u make bunker before rax, when you need a rax to make a bunker?

Oh yeah, my bad. Still doesn't change that 14cc into bunker rush makes 0 sense.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 21 2010 05:25 GMT
#52
Remember when Flash was called out on this forum for being too predictable?


The reason why he was slumping / sucking was that everyone "figured" him out?


Flash took that theory and flushed it down the toilet.
We decide our own destiny
Noxide
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2870 Posts
January 21 2010 05:30 GMT
#53
This is why Flash is a beast in series. never know what he is gonna do, and if you make the wrong play you are almost guaranteed to lose.
Flash ひなの戦争の王である || しかし、実際にはヤフーの ファンタジーサッカー、楽しいプレー私の週末を占めている
LF9
Profile Joined November 2009
United States537 Posts
January 21 2010 05:43 GMT
#54
Having a proficient and feared early game all-in cheese in your arsenal does WONDERS for your solid late game. It swings pretty much every mind game in his favor.
Katsuge
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore7730 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-21 06:00:08
January 21 2010 05:56 GMT
#55
not really sure, but i love doing 2rines1/2 scvs bunker "rush" nowadays...works quite well for me as the opponent usually over-reacts and sends tons of drones thinking that its a all-in...but in fact im just trying to waste his resources...and from then on i bunker wall my choke and save for double expand...

and did I mention my opponent sometimes cancels hatch? :D

but hey most of my opponents are just along the D line.
김태연 | 정은지 | 아이유 |  한효주 | 이민정 <3 -|||- 소녀시대 에이핑크 사랑해!
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
January 21 2010 06:00 GMT
#56
On January 21 2010 12:54 CapO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2010 12:52 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 21 2010 12:19 n.DieJokes wrote:
Idk, bunker rush is stupid effective. It's single-handly the reason why I 12pool every game

See, just the threat of bunker rush made zergs choose a economically worse build.


you zergs need to learn to scout

You don't understand, if I 9scout and see a bunker rush I have to 12 pool anyway or lose so I get doubly behind. Also the difference between 9scout 12 hatch and 12 pool-12hatch is really quite small, like razor thin
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-21 06:04:27
January 21 2010 06:03 GMT
#57
On January 21 2010 11:46 Azrael1111 wrote:
Flash has a lot of games to prepare for, this reduces that amount.

Best Answer.

Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 21 2010 06:05 GMT
#58
On January 21 2010 14:13 XinRan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2010 14:01 Hinanawi wrote:When was the last time someone tried cheesing Flash, anyway? It's uncanny how rarely it happens.

lol, you don't remember the lair-first two hatch muta rushes that Zero and Calm did like every game against Flash? What about gas-steal to proxy robo by Movie?


two hatch muta is not cheese. If that is cheese then I wonder what a non cheese goes on in your head >>.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ForTheSwarm
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States556 Posts
January 21 2010 06:17 GMT
#59
On January 21 2010 12:02 Chill wrote:
I don't get why people weren't bunker rushing more often. Its >50% win vs 12 hatch, which is extremely likely. In fact it's almost illogical not to bunker rush someone of equal skill.


I've always wondered this too!

Anyone remember that thread analyzing the economics of a bunker rush? If I remember correctly, even if it almost totally fails, the zerg and terran come out nearly the same economically.
Whenever I see a dropship, my asshole tingles, because it knows whats coming... - TheAntZ
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
January 21 2010 06:45 GMT
#60
On January 21 2010 14:13 XinRan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2010 14:01 Hinanawi wrote:When was the last time someone tried cheesing Flash, anyway? It's uncanny how rarely it happens.

lol, you don't remember the lair-first two hatch muta rushes that Zero and Calm did like every game against Flash? What about gas-steal to proxy robo by Movie?


Flashes defense is so good. He makes every cheese laughable, from bulldogs to DTs, to early reavers. He's playing super solid right now, anyone who hopes to beat him has his work cut out for him.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
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