EPTEvul, JieXian is saying that the logical choice for you if you are scum and Lazer is town was to vote for Hopeless because if you had voted for Lazer and he flipped green, you would have looked quite scummy for protecting Hopeless, and not only would Hopeless have had a high chance of being lynched the next day anyway, you would also be compromised and under heavy scrutiny.
Newbie Mini Mafia XX - Page 23
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
Evul, JieXian is saying that the logical choice for you if you are scum and Lazer is town was to vote for Hopeless because if you had voted for Lazer and he flipped green, you would have looked quite scummy for protecting Hopeless, and not only would Hopeless have had a high chance of being lynched the next day anyway, you would also be compromised and under heavy scrutiny. | ||
|
JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
I'm guessing that somewhere in the mix, there's too much WIFOM afoot. To answer the accusation of "defending Lazer and flip-flopping", I didn't defend Lazer. I just said his opener didn't feel excessively scummy. I'd say there's a significant difference between defending a guy and saying "meh, that post doesn't feel like a sufficient basis for an accusation". Hopeless, we already know what happened there, I straight up misread. Sucks. So, was there anything not involving those things you wanted me to explain? Sorry, if I try to break down every single thing that's been leveled against me and respond all at once, it would be a giant, confusing post, and frankly, I probably wouldn't get a chance to post it, because I'd be constantly adding to it. | ||
|
BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
| ||
|
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 08 2012 00:55 Evulrabbitz wrote: As I interpreted it, you claim that if I would've voted for Lazermonkey, which would lead to the death of him, and he flips green; I would have been the next logical lynch. Is that what you meant? In that case your rebuttal doesn't make any sense >_> Naturally everyone would be looking at you because you placed the deciding vote. | ||
|
Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
| ||
|
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 08 2012 00:33 Evulrabbitz wrote: That is true. I thought my vote was the last possible. Regardless, it does not weaken my case, it does rather the opposite. I stand corrected. Evul's vote was 13 minutes before the deadline, and as he admits, he thought it was the last vote possible. He's basically admitting that his vote was useless, still he felt inclined to switch his vote. Combined with the fact that his previous postings do not talk about his preference for lazer vs. hopeless lynch. In fact, he never really brings up his reads on either player. The act of suddenly changing his vote last minute, when hopeless lynch was already evident, resembles classic case of bussing and is scummy. Thus top two lynch candidates: Evul Jingle | ||
|
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 08 2012 01:13 Evulrabbitz wrote: Before I start adding to my previous posts this night I want you to clearly state what you meant, since I obviously interpreted your post in a manner which was not intended. My reply: "in that case your rebuttal doesn't make sense" meant that you interpreted it perfectly | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
He also tried the if this, then that bullshit. I don't really see what town motivation would cause this, but as a scum, it's trying to survive without an analytical basis. "meh, that post doesn't feel like a sufficient basis for an accusation" = defense because there was an accusation (I) and your saying there should be no accusation tells me to stop attacking him for that reason. | ||
|
Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
I stand corrected. Evul's vote was 13 minutes before the deadline, and as he admits, he thought it was the last vote possible. He's basically admitting that his vote was useless, still he felt inclined to switch his vote. Combined with the fact that his previous postings do not talk about his preference for lazer vs. hopeless lynch. In fact, he never really brings up his reads on either player. The act of suddenly changing his vote last minute, when hopeless lynch was already evident, resembles classic case of bussing and is scummy. I have never stated my vote was useless, I said the opposite. I said my vote was the deciding relying on the fact that it was not for Lazermonkey. I mentioned in the same post as I voted that if anyone wanted me to elaborate, I would. However I do not see the need as Hopeless flipped scum. What I am trying to say is that If I were Mafia I would know the alignment of both Hopeless and Lazermonkey. Since we know Hopeless is(was) mafia there are now 3 scenarios about my alignment: 1) I am mafia and Lazermonkey is not. If this is the case, why would I vote for Hopeless and not Lazermonkey? a) It would be suspicious to vote against Lazermonkey since I then would have thrown the deciding vote against a townie.(Basically what JieXian said) Ask yourself this: If Hopeless would've turned green, would I be the one to be lynched or would the person making a case against him be? It's the exact same situation. I don't see how I would be more suspicious than the person making the case (I do acknowledge that I would've been more suspicious than any of the "regular" voters). 2) Lazermonkey is Mafia and I am not. I am not really in a position to say how Lazermonkey would've played but I doubt he would sacrifice his Mafia buddy without trying to divide attention to other players. 3) We both are mafia This scenario is, of course, still plausible. The only way to prove this wrong is if one of us is innocent. Then scenario 1 or 2 would be in effect. | ||
|
Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
The motivation for my posts is to make it clear that, based on how I acted, I am not scummy. | ||
|
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Sorry I was confused. You did have the chance to change your vote to lynch lazer. And it would not have been that suspicious as you had your initial vote on someone other than hopeless. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Regarding JingleHell defending his behavior - Jingle spent the entirety of his earlier post talking about his self-defense. My case (CLICK HERE). does not concern this at all, and instead, attacks him based on his defense of Hopeless, the logic of his case, and his anti-town mentality, all of which are suspicious in a mafia-oriented way. @ Jingle, I don't think my case is "weak" by any stretch of the imagination, and don't give me shit about how it "isn't worth your time." If the medic doesn't screw up/get roleblocked and I die, I'm voting for you the second that D2 starts unless I get a satisfactory defense. On the subject of Meta-Analysis on Jingle - Jingle is clearly pretty self-aware of his meta, so I'm hesitant to use his posting tone/style in a formal case. In addition, in his last game as mafia, he was a substitute, and thus was under very different circumstances/pressure than this game. I believe my current case outlines his mafia-motive pretty well, but if people need convincing, I'll provide an analysis of townie Jingle and talk about how different his posting motives were in that game. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
@THE_ZEN_MAN On July 07 2012 19:15 The_Zen_Man wrote: Cant say im too suprised, as my choice was between hope and lazer, and they were about equally scummy too me(lazer obvously more). But for now, lets just wait out the night. We're not content to just "wait out the night" - we need to organize the town, pressure suspicious players, and make reads so we don't take our opinions to the grave. ...and for the 30th time, why is Lazer scummy to you?!?!?!?!?!? I wrote a pretty long post HERE discussing why your suspicions are baseless, yet you're still throwing this around? I want some legitimate answers. | ||
|
JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
All you've done is outline about a trillion things in red text, most of them having to do with my interactions with Lazer, and I explained the majority of that. If you have specific points that I haven't addressed, bring them up. I'm aware you don't want to be bothered to actually type anything, since you love links so much, but frankly, if you're going to be too lazy to separate the things I've answered from the things I haven't, I'm sure as hell not going to bother either. tl;dr, put your dick away before I let you step all over it. | ||
|
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
Please do post your analysis on Jingle | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
1) You vote to lynch lazer without providing ANY evidence or analysis. You're welcome to dig through your filter and quote yourself in your defense, but I can't find anything remotely substantial. 2) You defend Hopeless1der without providing ANY evidence or analysis. You are not a stupid person, and we know that from your post games. "Misread" won't cut it - give a good reason for your defense. You spend a lot of time talking about a mysterious "meta" that we still haven't heard anything about. The time you do talk about his meta, its straight-up wrong ("prolific posting" by hopeless... lol). 3) Your cases of anti-town mentality and advice. I'll let the below quote do the talking for me: On July 07 2012 00:37 JingleHell wrote: -SNIP- Actually, if we want to find out who's being scummy, since this is a newbie game, is look for the people who are trying too hard to be the polar opposite of scummy based on the various guides. So look for prolific posters who find a way to turn every single word into a scumslip, are obsessed with analysis, and want to take the lead. You should find at least two scum that way. Holy scum-advice batman! TBH, I'd be perfectly fine with you ignoring everything else I've said if you can explain your way out of this one. Of course, you can also sit back and continue to flame as opposed to defending yourself. You continue to build your rapport of anti-town mentality as opposed to providing anything productive to the town. You continue to flame and throw around "dicks" rather than post anything of substance. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
| ||
|
JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 08 2012 02:36 Hapahauli wrote: Since you're apparently (purposefully?) unwilling to actually read my accusation, let me tl;dr it for you: 1) You vote to lynch lazer without providing ANY evidence or analysis. You're welcome to dig through your filter and quote yourself in your defense, but I can't find anything remotely substantial. 2) You defend Hopeless1der without providing ANY evidence or analysis. You are not a stupid person, and we know that from your post games. "Misread" won't cut it - give a good reason for your defense. You spend a lot of time talking about a mysterious "meta" that we still haven't heard anything about. The time you do talk about his meta, its straight-up wrong ("prolific posting" by hopeless... lol). 3) Your cases of anti-town mentality and advice. I'll let the below quote do the talking for me: Holy scum-advice batman! TBH, I'd be perfectly fine with you ignoring everything else I've said if you can explain your way out of this one. Of course, you can also sit back and continue to flame as opposed to defending yourself. You continue to build your rapport of anti-town mentality as opposed to providing anything productive to the town. You continue to flame and throw around "dicks" rather than post anything of substance. Re-post this without your confrontational bullshit, since apparently my tl;dr in the last one was over your head. And to release, I actually have no idea who the fuck grush is. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
| ||
|
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 08 2012 02:36 Hapahauli wrote: In that quote he's obviously attacking lazer and another person (most probably you) what's so special about it >_> | ||
| ||
