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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:00 GreYMisT wrote: Oh, well then care to provide reasons? I'm afraid i dont speak LAL code. The LAL was for bum The vote was for forumite trying to force bullshit cases, especially the kenpachi/LSB "contradiction". Scum | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote: You know I never thought about it like that. What kind of defense is that ? No, I dont know what is in your head. The only reason you gave for not lynching lurkers is it "I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues". And we are not speaking of lynching them rigth now, but more toward the end of day 1. Not being active is one of the easiest way for mafia player to stay under the radar. we should prevent taht as much as possible. And blues, stay active, dont get lynched. | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote: You know I never thought about it like that. did did you just not read the thread then? That option was brought up several times. @LSB I didn't know that kenpachi always townie claims day 1, it has been forever since I have played. It still does not allow him to post 2 other useless one liners and then leave. I just don't think that you should just write off kenpachi so quickly. Zephirrd confirmed early then came back later and actually posted stuff. Once I look that over and see if it is good material I can comment more on it, but at least he posted something. Kenpachi posted useless one liners in response to hiroruby (so there was stuff to talk about, he just decided not to) and then disappeared. I want to see more out out of Kenpachi than this. If he has played enough games for this behavior to be standard, then he should know that this doesn't help the town. ##Vote Kenpachi and now for a new topic: On November 15 2011 12:06 Kibibit wrote: Welp. Here we go. first post is fine, counts for nothing On November 15 2011 12:59 Kibibit wrote: /confirm As far as lurkers go, I'm more or less in agreement on the lynching. what does this mean, you want to lynch inactive people - really? How many, how inactive, why do so? I won't accept you just "more or less agreeing" with people. That is not helpful and super scummy imo. Now after some time has passed and more topics are brought up to discuss: On November 15 2011 21:44 Kibibit wrote: I'm semi-okay with LAL, but there's always the possibility of a newbie getting an important decision and fucking up, so I'd prefer that we at least pressure any liars before we get our nooses out on them. Once again a wishy washy agreement with the general consensus, but not actually taking a side. This is also allowing mafia get away with lying if we used it. On November 16 2011 01:12 Kibibit wrote: Yeah, but what I mean is that not everyone intends to lie. If it's blatant and obvious, I say lynch them immediately, I'm just saying not to overreact to any inconsistencies or the like. Once again you think that it is ok for townies to lie badly, we should cut them some slack? Why are you trying to allow scum to get away with occasional inconsistencies/small lies? All Kibibit has done is to sort of agree with everyone, make excuses for potential liars, and lurk (after he says we should probably lynch lurkers.) ##Vote Kibibit | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
##vote: DCLXVI So I guess that's two votes for me? | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
If we decide to lynch lurkers one a day or something, I think that gives mafia a slight advantage, in that they will be able to, with their numbers, lead the vote to non-mafia lurkers before it gets to mafia lurkers. So say there are 3 town lurkers and 1 scum lurker, the scum will be able to vote and probably help the scum lurker be the last of the 4 lynched and they won't look bad in hindsight since they were just following the policy we had set forth to lynch a lurker a day. I don't really know what we could do to stop this but I'd like to at least discuss it before we start playing in to scum hands. I know lurking townies aren't particularly useful, but they are still a warm body that puts town that much further from losing. Idk, anybody have any suggestions? | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On November 16 2011 01:53 chaoser wrote: People need to be more nuanced with applying LaL... The act of lying as a townie itself is not negative for town if the townie doing it has weighed all negatives and positives of the situation and have found the lie to be favorable for town. It's only when a townie does the lying badly, as is/was the case with GM -_- that it's bad for town. I lied in XXIX, saying I was a DT instead of what I actually was, a vet. I said I checked someone and they came out to be red. We lynched them last minute and they flipped red. That was a good lie. Had he flipped townie (doubtful), a vigi would have shot me and while that would have wasted not only one of my nightlifes but also a vigi shot, I would have been confirmed. win-win. You say that lies can provide a win-win situation, but how is it a win situation when that lie could have killed a townie, yourself AND wasted a vigilante shot? Lies like that are terrible, and that could very well have cost you the game. Are you really taking these chances? Then you go on trying to create a bandwagon over Forumite with nearly no arguments. Forumite at least have a point, and you just go "Scum" over him. What's with that? Despite the one post where you claim that something like a bold lie like claiming DT is beneficial, you don't post anything useful for this. And when someone posts actual arguments and analysis, you just instantly vote over him like you did. It looks like you are just trying to attract attention to yourself, and it very well is working; "attracting attention" that would be used in reality as a cover: You go out loud with zero arguments, and people stop caring about you. FoS chaoser | ||
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Hiroruby
United States43 Posts
On November 15 2011 20:00 prplhz wrote: If any of you bothered to read my posts I never said that people should lie their asses off, on the contrary. I said that lynch-all-liars can be bad and it would have been in TMMM because GMarshal was a lying town. He shouldn't have lied, but two wrongs doesn't make a right and lying isn't damning evidence by itself. sandroba made the right call in not lynching GMarshal 'cause at the end of the day, this is a game about lynching scum, not about lynching liars. Don't lie and don't hide behind policies instead of contributing with your opinion. Also, I jumped on the 0-person bandwagon? Rofl. I liked your post Cyber_Cheese even though I thought it was weird that you didn't vote in it, but that new post of yours was all shit. Sorry. Hiroruby says he supports a strict lynch-all-lurkers policy right here: He says that even if lurkers are town, they should get lynched. I mean come on. To prplhz: We can't tell if lurkers are town or not because they are lurking. A town member who won't answer questions, is gone until the 11th hour of important votes, and doesn't provide any analysis, is not helping the town. Can you provide any reason as to why a town member, who is basically camouflage to real scum, shouldn't be lynched under the current vote system? You say policy lynching is stupid, and it will only help Mafia, but you don't say how it will help them. The two proposed "policies" are LaL, and lynching lurkers. Removing those options from the Mafia can only hinder them by giving them less bullshit to hide behind. In my opinion, and for the reasons you quoted me saying, I retain that lurkers should be lynched. Furthermore, you state that liars shouldn't be killed for only lying. What? If lying is not considered Scummy enough for a lynch, I don't know what is. I'm playing from the perspective that the Mafia are good, and knowing that they can lie and get away with it, is too powerful a tool. To DCLXVI: As to why I said I was town,it was just lighthearted talk with Ken. No more no less, now I see it was an obvious error I won't make again. Fluff is trash and I'll keep that in mind. To Cyber_Cheese: Yes, I wrote quite a bit about how to play Mafia, but it was for good reason. Before starting this game I read Ace's guides on how to play Mafia, because I knew those would help me no matter what side of the fence i was placed on. Either I have some knowledge of how to catch scum, or I'm not scrambling day 1 trying not to ruin the game for everyone by being bad mafia. (after reviewing LSB's question) Oh, I see. I read his statement as how specifically MAFIA should be played, not the game in general. Regardless, I'm still glad I have my thoughts on that subject out. the # of Lynches I think we should never do more than two a day, unless we know for a fact we're are killing scum. I.E. 3 types of lynches I would be in favor of, in this order. 2x suspected scum Suspected Scum + lurker 2x lurker if we have no solid suspects. If people are not lurking, then obviously don't lynch random people though. We should have enough evidence to at least make a reasonable guess as to who may be scum if everyone is contributing. For the record: I am in favor of LaL. If someone is lying, and you are town, realize you will get lynched when you are caught. If you are going to lie, you should always factor in your death and make sure that it will be "worth it" for the town. Tunneling I think, in general, Tunneling isn't a very good play this early in the game. There are a lot of people, and soon to be a plethora of posts. You are much more likely, with this many players, to stumble across scum by looking at the broad picture, rather than training an individual. There is a chance that you "clear" the person you tunnel, but whether he is scum or town he is likely going to react the same way. What I mean, and the problem with tunneling this early, is that the scum has no back trail for you to follow. So it is highly likely you make a misread this early in the game, just because there isn't enough information to work with. Scum and town haven't said enough to seperate themselves yet, and if the scum knows you are after him, he will play a safer game. I'll have to read the rest of the posts now, busy day it seems. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:44 Zephirdd wrote: You say that lies can provide a win-win situation, but how is it a win situation when that lie could have killed a townie, yourself AND wasted a vigilante shot? Lies like that are terrible, and that could very well have cost you the game. Are you really taking these chances? ??? Don't talk about shit you don't know about. Go reread that game if you need to. Then you go on trying to create a bandwagon over Forumite with nearly no arguments. Forumite at least have a point, and you just go "Scum" over him. What's with that? Despite the one post where you claim that something like a bold lie like claiming DT is beneficial, you don't post anything useful for this. What bandwagon did I create/start? I'm the only one voting for him and I didn't even give a detailed reason as to why. Overreaction much? Why are you defending a guy that frankly, was in no danger of being lynched (Not even 24 hours into the game, voted by one guy with barely any reasoning) And when someone posts actual arguments and analysis, you just instantly vote over him like you did. It looks like you are just trying to attract attention to yourself, and it very well is working; "attracting attention" that would be used in reality as a cover: You go out loud with zero arguments, and people stop caring about you. I'm confused, so you're saying I'm mafia, and that the way I'm going about hiding the fact that I'm mafia is by "drawing attention" and being "loud" which somehow makes people stop caring about me when really I've posted almost nothing and mafia typically like to hide? ##Vote: Zephirdd ##Unvote: DCLXVI PS, FoS is for sissies, real men just vote | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Also, I don't get prplhz. He says that LAL is bad, then says that you shouldn't lie nor lynch a liar. Liars will only do bad for Town, and a good way to make townies not lie is to threaten them with the LAL. How are we supposed to trust what people say if there is no LAL to enforce it? Complains about prplhz being against LAL and wishy washy, is very pro LAL I guess I'll have to ditto Kibibit here, I'm okay with LAL but we shouldn't push ourselves into it; put some pressure first. I mean, there are even the odds that someone said something by mistake, or that the guy wasn't even serious at all; I mean someone even suggested that I should be lynched because of my joke(/spam?) post. Is wishy washy on LAL policy Scumbag Zephirdd | ||
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Kibibit
United States1551 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:14 DCLXVI wrote: what does this mean, you want to lynch inactive people - really? How many, how inactive, why do so? I won't accept you just "more or less agreeing" with people. That is not helpful and super scummy imo. Now after some time has passed and more topics are brought up to discuss: Once again a wishy washy agreement with the general consensus, but not actually taking a side. This is also allowing mafia get away with lying if we used it. Once again you think that it is ok for townies to lie badly, we should cut them some slack? Why are you trying to allow scum to get away with occasional inconsistencies/small lies? All Kibibit has done is to sort of agree with everyone, make excuses for potential liars, and lurk (after he says we should probably lynch lurkers.) ##Vote Kibibit So you're seriously gonna call a vote simply because my opinions aren't aggressive enough? I'm pretty new to Mafia, but the one thing I've been taught, over and over, to the face, is that keeping quiet will get you lynched. But how's this. I'm all for LAL at this point, I'm only retracting the "pressure on the smaller inconsistencies" because where do we draw the line? I pretty much "sort of agree" with everyone as the handful or so of mafia games I've played have provided me with odd examples where the hyper-aggressive "lynch everyone on the first inkling of suspicion" is a bad idea. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Bad vibes also this - On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote: I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. On November 16 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote: This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same. | ||
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Hiroruby
United States43 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote: ##Vote: Sabin010 Bad vibes also this - That appears to be a very blatant lie. Looking at it, I can really see nothing that can redeem this. LaL. ##Vote: Sabin010 | ||
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Hiroruby
United States43 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote: ##Vote: Sabin010 Bad vibes also this - I've played many live games in my house, but never on TL. Vote as you will, but just because I make implications in my posts does not make me a liar. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:30 Sabin010 wrote: I've played many live games in my house, but never on TL. Vote as you will, but just because I make implications in my posts does not make me a liar. Magic! | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
PS, FoS is for sissies, real men just vote Do you know something we don't? Why are you encouraging people to vote like that, are you benefiting from it somehow? I didn't vote just yet because we were warned about consequences of just voting away, yet you are pretty comfortable of going on vote crazy, as if it was good for your somehow. On November 16 2011 05:04 chaoser wrote: Complains about prplhz being against LAL and wishy washy, is very pro LAL Is wishy washy on LAL policy Scumbag Zephirdd I don't get it, was that supposed to be a contradiction? What made you go "Scum" on me? And why did you go "Scum" after you voted on me? You're creating cases out of nowhere to encourage people to just throw votes. Again, it's like you don't even care about a simple mechanic of this game. There are hazards in store for the town that lynches too many players in a particular day. ##Vote: chaoser | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:42 Lemonwalrus wrote: As far as lynching lurkers goes, I just thought of something. If we decide to lynch lurkers one a day or something, I think that gives mafia a slight advantage, in that they will be able to, with their numbers, lead the vote to non-mafia lurkers before it gets to mafia lurkers. So say there are 3 town lurkers and 1 scum lurker, the scum will be able to vote and probably help the scum lurker be the last of the 4 lynched and they won't look bad in hindsight since they were just following the policy we had set forth to lynch a lurker a day. I don't really know what we could do to stop this but I'd like to at least discuss it before we start playing in to scum hands. I know lurking townies aren't particularly useful, but they are still a warm body that puts town that much further from losing. Idk, anybody have any suggestions? This is how I feel about lynching lurkers. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:43 Zephirdd wrote: Do you know something we don't? Why are you encouraging people to vote like that, are you benefiting from it somehow? I didn't vote just yet because we were warned about consequences of just voting away, yet you are pretty comfortable of going on vote crazy, as if it was good for your somehow. Are you insinuating that I'm mafia and somehow mafia knows how the lynch mechanics work? (btw, as far as I can tell, no one besides Zona knows and the reason is so people can't abuse it). I don't get it, was that supposed to be a contradiction? What made you go "Scum" on me? And why did you go "Scum" after you voted on me? What? Are you saying that somehow saying the word "scum" after voting you is suspicious? Your questions make no sense. You're creating cases out of nowhere to encourage people to just throw votes. Again, it's like you don't even care about a simple mechanic of this game. How am I encouraging people to throw away votes again? You can vote however you want, it's the lynch that is hazardous, as in too many lynches=bad for town. Voting for people ain't. I voted for two people, which has already been said is a decent number. You're trying to pull shit out your ass to defend yourself. I DID create cases out of nothing. That was to get some reactions and clearly yours is an overreaction; an incredibly scummy one at that. scummmmmmm | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
So it works in games other than LotR mafia as well... | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:26 GreYMisT wrote: So it works in games other than LotR mafia as well... Na that was a one time thing we are not in middle earth any more | ||
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