EPT
iloveoov: The Greatest Genius - Page 14
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Make that 3 finals. Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance | ||
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soccercop
Fiji305 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On January 31 2011 08:01 Ver wrote: Is that just because you lost interest after so long or is it because of the match-fixing scandal?It may or may not be released in April or sometime this century, I don't know nor care anymore. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On January 31 2011 23:33 xxpack09 wrote: oov vs July Shinhan finals is another great example of the wonders of mental preparation. Only one of two finals ever won on pure mental domination, the other being Flash vs Stork Bacchus, oov trounced his old enemy July in 3 mostly one-sided games. + Show Spoiler + Make that 3 finals. Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance I'd say July vs Best is there as well. | ||
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Caos2
United States1728 Posts
I remember July saying that he never had the mental edge, that's why he trash talked in the pre-game interviews. He must have learned it from oov, the hard way. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2350 Posts
On January 31 2011 07:26 legaton wrote: Oh man, after rewatching the games from the OSL finals and just had to bump this thread again to pay my respects to Iloveoov. He was the man that modeled Fantasy, + Show Spoiler + he's the genius behind Fantasy's gameplan and Fantasy's first victory at OSL shows just how intelligent iloveoov still is. The two first games were blind counters to Stork, giving him an enormous BO edge, and i'm certain that the last game map abuse was also designed by him. + Show Spoiler + And this time, it's actually true I'm not going to take anything from OOv's as mentor, but ironicaly, the most important and influental Fantasy's design- his contribution to modern late terran play against Zerg (with heavy or even crucial cooperation with Flash) , was not OOv's invention at all. It was the thing that came from pure desperation. Remember his tank banking, that everybody were lauthing at from first untill it somehow worked? He made that to survive the legendary SPL final game vs JD after his initial plan totaly broke after dissastrous sunken break. Later it evolved with many variants (denchanic f.e., that was fantasy's own design, what fantasy confirmed) and now late transition to mech is standard answer against zerg hive tech. But even that shows how great genius he is. He totally changed Fantasy's mindset to let him think unconventionally. That what makes him the greatest terran mind in the history. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On January 31 2011 23:28 Holgerius wrote: You need to write something epic about Flash. Already been started awhile ago and now with my motivation back it will get finished. ETA is who knows. On February 01 2011 00:30 qrs wrote: Is that just because you lost interest after so long or is it because of the match-fixing scandal? Not allowed/postponed due to matchfixing scandal. It's been done since the day before the scandal broke. On February 01 2011 02:28 Caos2 wrote: I remember July saying that he never had the mental edge, that's why he trash talked in the pre-game interviews. He must have learned it from oov, the hard way. Yeah July credited his past series with nada and oov in shaping his play for Ever '08. It was pretty funny how both players won in very similar ways 3-0 (iops/shinhan bank 0). On February 01 2011 03:16 hitthat wrote: I'm not going to take anything from OOv's as mentor, but ironicaly, the most important and influental Fantasy's design- his contribution to modern late terran play against Zerg (with heavy or even crucial cooperation with Flash) , was not OOv's invention at all. It was the thing that came from pure desperation. Remember his tank banking, that everybody were lauthing at from first untill it somehow worked? He made that to survive the legendary SPL final game vs JD after his initial plan totaly broke after dissastrous sunken break. Later it evolved with many variants (denchanic f.e., that was fantasy's own design, what fantasy confirmed) and now late transition to mech is standard answer against zerg hive tech. But even that shows how great genius he is. He totally changed Fantasy's mindset to let him think unconventionally. That what makes him the greatest terran mind in the history. The funny thing is oov was doing a very similar lategame mass tank defense idea back in 2005, eg here and here. Pretty crazy isn't it? But in actuality the lategame mech switch was from midas (a really underrated innovator) and fantasy. Fantasy did it once against zero in january '10 then midas started doing a more refined version every game in feburary and beyond. That bio -> mech switch around defiler timing is much different from the sk terran -> fast 4th with switch into 3-4 fact tanks that was shown in fantasy/jaedong and then further developed by flash against calm and others. Ultimately it's really hard to judge oov's exact influence on fantasy except when he gets credited for a build. Fantasy is hardly a robot obeying orders, but at the same time like you said, the fantasy who never had oov as a coach would think completely differently and wouldn't even be a comparable player. You clearly notice a lot of similarities with their series approaches as well: I don't think it's a coincidence that fantasy is an absolute monster in series but very inconsistent in single games. The extent of his influence is more certain with people like canata who are mediocre their entire career, never getting anywhere in leagues then suddenly makes msl ro8 and comes within inches of knocking out jaedong with very clear oov builds. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:38 Ver wrote: Already been started awhile ago and now with my motivation back it will get finished. ETA is who knows. Cool, I'm really looking forward to that.  | ||
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Armathai
1023 Posts
Can't wait to see the brilliance you've got hidden for Savior and Flash, your writing is amazing Ver! | ||
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Raii
Philippines194 Posts
I guess Starcraft is his destiny | ||
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darklordjac
Canada2231 Posts
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Thorin
601 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Making me feel old... how long ago this seemed. Can't wait for you to get your Flash article done Ver! | ||
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
Well done, really enjoyed reading this! | ||
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Mumei
United States270 Posts
Since getting back into StarCraft, I've really enjoyed reading articles like this and TLFE's that detail the side of StarCraft that I missed when I was in my early teens - the development of new strategies that I missed when watching mostly for the entertainment value of watching impressive micro / macro and big battles, the human side of the rivalries, and so forth. Excellent article, and I look forward to the Flash article you said you're working on. | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
Isn't that just the heir of the BoxeR lineage vs. the heir of the yellOw lineage..? Stork's no Nal_rA... but I would love to see him get the Silver Badge... BoxeR hand-picked oov for a reason, and I guess that this was it. oov's simply the deepest-impacting Terran in history. Just like Shark for Zerg and... uh. Don't know any Protoss equivalents really. Maybe rA. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On February 13 2011 06:11 IntoTheheart wrote: FanTaSy vs. Stork in 2008 and 2011... Isn't that just the heir of the BoxeR lineage vs. the heir of the yellOw lineage..? Stork's no Nal_rA... but I would love to see him get the Silver Badge... BoxeR hand-picked oov for a reason, and I guess that this was it. oov's simply the deepest-impacting Terran in history. Just like Shark for Zerg and... uh. Don't know any Protoss equivalents really. Maybe rA. I'd say KIMDONGWOO is one of the deepest-impacting Zergs since he coached GoRush, Savior, Effort, and now Hydra. | ||
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