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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
What expansion card are you talking about? Like a PCIE to m.2 expansion card for NVME drives? To me it seems like the answer is probably no, though you can double check by buying and returning or calling MSI, since mobo manufacturers generally don't roll out many more features after release. Not really knowledgeable in this topic, so relying quite a bit on what some google searches gave me. | ||
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BeyondZork
3 Posts
What is your budget? 300-400 GBP What is your monitor's native resolution? Need to buy one. What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? SC2, as good settings as possible in that budget, possible some other new games. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Movies, music, web surfing. Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? I do need a monitor, but that's not counted into this budget. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. None really, though I do hear intel > amd for sc2lotv, dunno how true is that. What country will you be buying your parts in? UK If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
2) Cheapest H110M mobo you can find - $80 3) GTX1050 2GB - $160 4) 2x4GB 2133Mhz DDR4 RAM -$80 or 1x8GB for $10~ less 5) 1TB HDD, 250GB SSD and 1TB HDD, or 500GB SSD (decide based on budget, Evo 850 is my recommendation here) - $70 to $230 6) 430-500W PSU (based on what's cheapest, most of the brands making them have been around for a while), - $45 7) Any case -$45 Grand total: $580 with HDD up to $740 with SSD. Just copy and pasted from last page, same parts, but use GBP instead of my CAD prices there, should be in that 350-400 ballpark I think. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On January 25 2017 02:47 FiWiFaKi wrote: What expansion card are you talking about? Like a PCIE to m.2 expansion card for NVME drives? To me it seems like the answer is probably no, though you can double check by buying and returning or calling MSI, since mobo manufacturers generally don't roll out many more features after release. Not really knowledgeable in this topic, so relying quite a bit on what some google searches gave me. yes pcie expansion card, i tried googling as well but didn't find anything. I tried asking msi on twitter but no response. | ||
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Craton
United States17295 Posts
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Poopi
France13004 Posts
I only now have the funds (well in one week but there'll still be two weeks of "sales" in France) to buy my new gaming rig. (was for sc2+stream, OW(+maybe stream), maybe some AAA titles, 1080p@144Hz for OW at least). My needs didn't change except that I might end up buying more AAA titles than expected in the future. What has changed since I asked is that Kaby Lake is out, and Zen/Ryzen is almost out. Afaik we don't really know how it'll perform and at what price, so I don't wanna wait for Ryzen. As for Kaby Lake, 7700k cost like 20€ more than 6700k, same price difference for 7600k/6600k (minus sales), BUT the Z270 chipset is like 40€ more than the Z170 counterpart (and apparently KL processors aren't stable enough on Z170 mobo yet?), plus there are more sales on 6700k/Z170 mobo here. [for not much more performance] I think I can afford the i7 so the question is Kaby Lake or Skylake? I would rather pick Skylake because of what I said above, what do you think? If we suppose I go for an i7 6700k, I hesitate between two "builds". [1st build] For this one I'll buy the parts from as many different websites as I can in order to get the better deals from each component. I looked at past recent deals for the components I chose and estimated the price I could get without much trouble. I'll then have to build the computer all by myself, and it scares me a bit (never did the whole thing, I know how it should be done but the CPU+cooler part is what I fear, even hyper 212 evo we had troubles installing). Processor - Cooler - Mobo - RAM: i7 6700k - BeQuiet! Pure Rock (or Hyper 212X) ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming (or MSI Z170 Gaming Pro Carbon) - 2*8GB DDR4 3000MHz (any brand G.Skill or Corsair or idk) HDD - SSD Seagate Barracuda 2TB - Crucial MX300- 525GB Case - PSU Fractal Design Define R5 (or Corsair Carbide 300R) - Fortron Raider S550 (or Corsair CX550M) Video card Nvidia Geforce GTX1070 (depending on sale so can't really know which one) [End 1st build] Price: ~1350€ to 1450€ (depending on deals I manage to find) [2nd build] This one would be built by a shop in Paris so I don't get to choose the parts, it's a bit more expensive with worse RAM/less capacity HDD/much less capacity (and worse? idk) SSD, worse mobo (does it matter tho?). The good is the video card and the fact that I don't need to build it myself. Processor - Cooler - Mobo - RAM: i7 6700k - CM 212LED - MSI Z170-A Pro - 2*8GB 2400MHz DDR4 from Avexir, Core Series (?) HDD - SSD Seagate Barracuda 1TB - (noname?) SSD 128GB M.2 Case - PSU CM MasterBox Black - CM G550M Video card Nvidia GTX1080 8G Armor [End 2nd build] Price: 1500€ I am a bit lost because the only two good points of the second build is that it's ready to use (well still have to get a W7 or W10 and install it) so I don't have to build it, and the card is better. (I don't have to seek deals and order from various websites so I'll gain one or two weeks as well I guess) However it's a bit more expensive, some parts are plain worse/no-name? (does it matter for the ram/ssd?) I don't care having less HDD storage, but will 128GB SSD be enough to install W10+SC2+OW+LoL? (I don't need to install "solo" games on SSD as much as esport games, I might buy another ssd in the future if the mobo allows it?) As for the RAM, I read on this topic that Skylake likes fast RAM and it might improve sc2 performance, how much should I expect to lose (for sc2/ow maybe as well) from 3000MHz corsair / g.skill compared to 2400MHz Avexir? Finally, is the 1080 such a good point since I won't buy a WQHD or 4K monitor till at least mid 2018? (I'll just buy a 1080p@144Hz for now) Isn't it overkill, thus making this 2nd build way worse than the 1st? (for 1080p with such a monitor) Sorry it's very long. Thanks in advance! | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
As for Kaby Lake, 7700k cost like 20€ more than 6700k, same price difference for 7600k/6600k (minus sales), BUT the Z270 chipset is like 40€ more than the Z170 counterpart (and apparently KL processors aren't stable enough on Z170 mobo yet?), plus there are more sales on 6700k/Z170 mobo here. [for not much more performance] I think I can afford the i7 so the question is Kaby Lake or Skylake? I would rather pick Skylake because of what I said above, what do you think? If you value +300mhz lower than +80 euro. That sounds like an unreasonable price increase given the changes but plenty of people will take that on flagship hardware As for the RAM, I read on this topic that Skylake likes fast RAM and it might improve sc2 performance, how much should I expect to lose (for sc2/ow maybe as well) from 3000MHz corsair / g.skill compared to 2400MHz Avexir? Too much to even consider using 2400mhz given the accessability and price of faster RAM IMO. 3000mhz is a good baseline and there are significant benefits to just about as much RAM performance as you can get If it really came down to buying prebuilt with X RAM then i'd take the RAM out, sell it and put like new 3600 in there :D | ||
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Poopi
France13004 Posts
As I suspected, their RAM is problematic. It's too much hassle to sell it especially given you can't find the ram on regular websites, combined with the low storage capacity SSD... There is a website with decent prices that let you pick your components and they build it for "free" (but you have to buy all of them from the site so you lose the potential components deals from other sites) so I will be able to chose my RAM without having to build the rig myself. I guess if there are no good deals for CPU and/or video card on other sites I'll do that. Does the performance increase from faster RAM scale linearly with the frequence upgrade? Because right now it's like (2*8GB): 250€ for 4000MHz (16MHz/€), 220 for 3866MHz (17,5MHz/€), 200 for 3733 (18,66MHz/€), 190 for 3600 (18,9MHz/€), 155 for 3466 (22,3MHz/€), 130 for the baseline 3000MHz (23MHz/€). Thus 3466MHz is very interesting, and 3733MHz would be faster with relatively decent price, but it might change depending on how much performance we gain for each 133MHz increase in frequency, do you have a video for performance between 3000MHz and 4000MHz so I can look it up (or a link to an article)? Ty. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
edit: some benchmarks from http://www.overclock.net/u/297627/darkwizzie ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BvUQlfn.png) Mhz isn't everything for RAM performance - if you look at 2133c15 vs 3000c15, that's a ~41% frequency jump while keeping the same timings which can lead to a theoretical latency and bandwidth improvement of ~1.41x. Comparing 3000c15 to 3466c17, the theoretical latency improvement is less than 2% and bandwidth improvement is ~15.5%, the latency improvement does not happen because they had to trade off timings to reach those higher frequencies | ||
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yeahwhynot
3 Posts
I am looking to buy a new laptop to be able to play SC2 when I am on trips. I am a 2v2 player only and on my old system I had hardware lags over and over. It was this Lenovo Z50-70 amazon.de/dp/B00Q2R2KAI with win7. I used most of the tricks you can do to improove sc2 performance (however, no overclocking) - still i had major issues. F.e. i was never able to play reaper or MMs because of the lags. So I had to stick to metal since I am playing only terran. What is your budget? 450-500 € What is your monitor's native resolution? Mostly I connect to a BenQ GL2450HM What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? only SC2, I dont care to much about settings, I just want to have it run without lag What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Work stuff, surfing, nothing special Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? As my main system I use Linux Mint 18, however I need something to run on SC2. I guess Win7 is enough? Maybe a newer one would be better to run SC2? Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? nothing needed If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. I would go for a lenovo since I made good experience with running with Linux 18. I am open for other solutions however. Preffering Intel over AMD. What country will you be buying your parts in? Germany If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None. Ebay or Amazon would do it if theres a good deal. Some more notes: - I wont need a big display, since I will always play only when a monitor is around to connect via hdmi. - Need to have an HDMI Port so I can connect easily to monitors. I rarely use the laptop without an Monitor around. - Need to able to connect internet via cable not only via wifi. - I dont need an CD/DVD device. - I dont need much space on the harddrive and i would preffer an ssd. 128 or 256 gb would do it easily. - Need at least 3 USB Ports. I would be very happy to get some suggestions. If you need further informations, just let me know and I will try my best. | ||
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Poopi
France13004 Posts
On January 28 2017 00:18 Cyro wrote: Very few good benchmarks for high speeds unfortunately edit: some benchmarks from http://www.overclock.net/u/297627/darkwizzie Mhz isn't everything for RAM performance - if you look at 2133c15 vs 3000c15, that's a ~41% frequency jump while keeping the same timings which can lead to a theoretical latency and bandwidth improvement of ~1.41x. Comparing 3000c15 to 3466c17, the theoretical latency improvement is less than 2% and bandwidth improvement is ~15.5%, the latency improvement does not happen because they had to trade off timings to reach those higher frequencies Yeah I figured the timings of the RAM could change stuff so I kind of got headaches trying to figure out if there was any difference between 170€ ddr4 3466mhz with the same frequency and timings of 155€ ddr4... Or if more expensive 3000mhz ddr4 with better timings could be better in spite of the lower frequency. I decided to go for Kaby Lake finally, for around 1700€ instead of the 1600€ Skylake build... But I found out that a 980Ti is almost as good as a 1070, both for gaming and for deep learning (might do some relatively soon, thankfully both usages benefit from strong Nvidia cards, AMD being irrelevant/not cost effective in the GTX1070 segment makes it an easy choice since there is no choice) and there was a MSI barebone with i7 6700k - 980Ti at an amazing price of 1100€ so I grabbed it. The RAM is only 2133 so I might grab some better one when RAM isn't overpriced anymore around there, and even tho i7 6700k/980Ti is a bit worse than 7700k/1070 and noise/cooling/evolutivity are worse than on ATX+Define R5, the tradeoff is worth the savings of 400+€ (no HDD, only two SSD in RAID inside so I'll need to buy one), especially since Kaby/Z270/RAM (and probably the nvidia cards as well since they are alone -;-) are overpriced atm, and that Ryzen is coming. Now I only need to find a 144Hz monitor at a decent price :D. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
In Dalaran, FPS tanks to 30-40, and in LFR it's around 40-50. Graphics slider is at like 8/12 with a 1070 at 3400x1440p over Displayport. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
On February 09 2017 22:54 DickMcFanny wrote: Is an i5-6500 actually too slow to get consistent 60 FPS in WoW? In Dalaran, FPS tanks to 30-40, and in LFR it's around 40-50. Graphics slider is at like 8/12 with a 1070 at 3400x1440p over Displayport. Yes, everything is. With an OC'd kaby lake CPU @~5ghz there would be significantly higher performance (~5ghz vs 3.6 is +38%) but that still gets dips sub-60 at times, especially on the wrong settings. Blizz have been pretty careless with their optimization so the game actually runs a lot worse than it did in earlier expansions and some of the new effects (that can't be turned down or disabled AFAIK) can destroy performance. Quick example - http://i.imgur.com/AZ8kyVv.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/vuoIKia.jpg . Blue fire stuff is pretty and all but please give me my FPS back  There are three 1-10 sliders in the options that affect CPU performance quite a lot and i run all three at ~5 most of the time for more CPU FPS. You should also make sure that Resolution Scale is at 100% because of some weird performance impacts above that level. Addons can also cause a pretty large CPU performance hit, especially around lots of players in combat. Check your FPS with all addons disabled vs enabled and by pressing alt-Z which temporarily disables some of the addon code It's pretty easy to tell when you're graphically or CPU limited just by looking at graphics card load - it'll be at 100% load and high clock speeds while you're graphically limited but the load will drop a lot when the CPU is limiting performance and it has nothing to do. Another way to check is to drop the render scale to 50%; if you're graphically limited then the framerate will dramatically increase but if you're CPU limited at that time then it won't change significantly. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
What is your budget? 1100€ max, but I'd rather stay under 1000€. What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920x1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Nothing special really. Games I'd like to play but can't on my old PC include Dark Souls 2&3 and Civ 6, plus whatever else might come up in the next few years. I don't mind playing on medium settings as long as I don't have to upgrade for a while. Although it would be nice to dabble in VR once the second generation comes up. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? The usual surfing and office tasks, it will also serve as a multimedia center and perhaps for some software development mayyybe including the use of a virtual machine, but rarely if ever. Do you intend to overclock? No. Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No. Do you need an operating system? No. Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. It has to be rather silent, at least when not gaming. It will be standing in the living room next to the TV, and I want to stream content to the TV without loud fans bothering me. The PSU, CPU cooler, GPU and case in my build reflect this requirement. What country will you be buying your parts in? Austria or Germany. So here's what I was planning to get: Western Digital WD Red 1TB, 3.5", SATA 6Gb/s Mushkin Triactor 500GB, SATA Intel Core i5-7500, 4x 3.40GHz, boxed Intenso Desktop Pro Kit 8GB, DDR4-2133, CL15 EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB SC Gaming, 3GB GDDR5, DVI, HDMI, 3x DisplayPort MSI B150M Pro-VDH LG Electronics GH24NSD1 black, SATA, bulk Scythe Mugen 4 be quiet! Pure Base 600 black, sound dampening Corsair RMx Series RM550x 550W ATX 2.4, semi-passive This would cost me around 1000€ including shipping. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + CPU Intel Core i5 2500K @ 3.30GHz 36 °C Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology RAM 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 665MHz (9-9-9-24) Motherboard Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. Z68X-UD3H-B3 (Socket 1155) 34 °C Graphics VP2365WB (1920x1080@60Hz) Intel HD Graphics 3000 (Gigabyte) 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (Gigabyte) 32 °C ForceWare version: 376.53 SLI Disabled Storage 931GB Seagate ST31000524AS (SATA) 27 °C 55GB Corsair Force GT (SSD) 29 °C 256GB Crucial_CT275MX300SSD1 (SSD) 28 °C What is your monitor's native resolution? 1080p Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade? Higher SC2 fps (eventually would like a gsync monitor, but that's not part of this budget) Better stream quality. Seems like 1080p60fps is the high standard now What is your budget? Maybe around $1000 but I'm up for saving money if it makes sense What country will you be buying your parts in? US -------- So my thought was that I could turn my current PC into a streaming machine. I'd take the gpu and an ssd out of it and use those as parts for a new gaming PC. I'd buy a capture card and the rest of the parts new except the case (I have an old case to use) and go with a 2 PC setup, with the old PC using on-board graphics and the other ssd. Is that the smart thing to do here to maximize both SC2 fps and stream quality? | ||
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Poopi
France13004 Posts
i7 7700k was the same price as 6700k so I got it instead, I picked a "modest" Z270 mobo in order to save a bit, and 3200Mhz C16 ram. I got to play a bit of OW@1080p-144Hz as well as sc2 on the 6700k/980ti/2133mhz ddr4 and it was night and day compared to my old rig (i5 750/5850/4GB ram, no ssd), it's to fluidity/comfort what was going from 480p to 1080p to visual delightment. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
On February 13 2017 09:49 NonY wrote: What is your current build? + Show Spoiler + CPU Intel Core i5 2500K @ 3.30GHz 36 °C Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology RAM 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 665MHz (9-9-9-24) Motherboard Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. Z68X-UD3H-B3 (Socket 1155) 34 °C Graphics VP2365WB (1920x1080@60Hz) Intel HD Graphics 3000 (Gigabyte) 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (Gigabyte) 32 °C ForceWare version: 376.53 SLI Disabled Storage 931GB Seagate ST31000524AS (SATA) 27 °C 55GB Corsair Force GT (SSD) 29 °C 256GB Crucial_CT275MX300SSD1 (SSD) 28 °C What is your monitor's native resolution? 1080p Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade? Higher SC2 fps (eventually would like a gsync monitor, but that's not part of this budget) Better stream quality. Seems like 1080p60fps is the high standard now What is your budget? Maybe around $1000 but I'm up for saving money if it makes sense What country will you be buying your parts in? US -------- So my thought was that I could turn my current PC into a streaming machine. I'd take the gpu and an ssd out of it and use those as parts for a new gaming PC. I'd buy a capture card and the rest of the parts new except the case (I have an old case to use) and go with a 2 PC setup, with the old PC using on-board graphics and the other ssd. Is that the smart thing to do here to maximize both SC2 fps and stream quality? I really don't know enough about how the capture cards work or performance hits involved (or not involved) with them, so it's hard to say here. For the sc2-running machine you should preferably have a 7600k/7700k with fast RAM (3000mhz or higher dual channel) and a CPU overclock, though a 7700k out of the box will perform relatively close to what it's capable of with OC. A 2500k in stream PC wouldn't be super comfortable for a 1080p60 stream due to the encoding performance. Twitch also still has some pretty tight bitrate limits AFAIK (~3500kbit/s CBR) which limit quality when pushing resolution and FPS, particularly for high motion or "noisy" scenes | ||
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
On February 13 2017 09:49 NonY wrote: What is your current build? + Show Spoiler + CPU Intel Core i5 2500K @ 3.30GHz 36 °C Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology RAM 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 665MHz (9-9-9-24) Motherboard Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. Z68X-UD3H-B3 (Socket 1155) 34 °C Graphics VP2365WB (1920x1080@60Hz) Intel HD Graphics 3000 (Gigabyte) 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (Gigabyte) 32 °C ForceWare version: 376.53 SLI Disabled Storage 931GB Seagate ST31000524AS (SATA) 27 °C 55GB Corsair Force GT (SSD) 29 °C 256GB Crucial_CT275MX300SSD1 (SSD) 28 °C What is your monitor's native resolution? 1080p Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade? Higher SC2 fps (eventually would like a gsync monitor, but that's not part of this budget) Better stream quality. Seems like 1080p60fps is the high standard now What is your budget? Maybe around $1000 but I'm up for saving money if it makes sense What country will you be buying your parts in? US -------- So my thought was that I could turn my current PC into a streaming machine. I'd take the gpu and an ssd out of it and use those as parts for a new gaming PC. I'd buy a capture card and the rest of the parts new except the case (I have an old case to use) and go with a 2 PC setup, with the old PC using on-board graphics and the other ssd. Is that the smart thing to do here to maximize both SC2 fps and stream quality? better yet, use that beauty to stream some boodwaz | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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