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I've been messing with these 2 pieces of software for a while now to find out which is better for streaming. So today I decided to do a simple comparison. I've recorded my stream with FME and Xsplit running at the best settings I can find, playing TF2 as it's more demanding and SC2 as it's what most people here play.
Computer specs
Sandy bridge i5 2500k 4.5GHz
4GB RAM
HD6870 1GB
Windows 7
Upload speed: 1.4MB
Flash Media Encoder
I used SCFH DS instead of the usual VhScrCap as I've heard it performs better. If you haven't heard of it, it's a Japanese screen capture software. So far I've had very good results. More info here.
SCFH DS settings screenshot
FME 3.2
1920x1080 screen resolution, resized to 720p output
1000kbps bitrate
H264 - Main / 4.1 / 1 second keyframe frequency
25 fps
TF2: http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284899428 (excuse the lack of audio, I didn't set it up for this)
SC2: http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284903659
+very smooth video, no fps drops that I can see
+no fps drops in game - can't tell I'm streaming
-pixelation
-have to use extra software to get my own mic to come through the stream
XSplit
I had to use different settings for each game with XSplit. It couldn't handle TF2 at anything higher than 960x540, and even then the results aren't great.
1920x1080 screen region
1088x612 for SC2
960x540 for TF2
25 fps
1000kbps bitrate / 2000kbps buffer size (not sure what this does)
Quality 10
All optimize for motion picture etc boxes unchecked
TF2: http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284901867
SC2: http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284905027
+good quality in general
+very easy to use, especially for audio
-fps drops, noticeable lag on the stream even at lower resolutions
-slight fps drop in game, a bit more sluggish to play with the stream on
As you can see from the videos, what it basically comes down to is SCFH DS and FME provide a much smoother stream at higher resolutions, however I get a lot of pixelation from the H264 codec (doesn't happen with VP6, but VP6 kinda sucks). It's not unwatchable, but I'd like to try and fix it.
XSplit gives good quality, but there's noticeable framedropping and it just isn't as smooth as the FME setup. Although it does get extra points for handling the audio so well.
So yeah, those are my findings. Hopefully someone finds them useful. Now - for any FME experts out there, how can I reduce the pixelation/quality drop in FME with the h264 codec? If it didn't do this, FME would be perfect for me. If anyone can help with this it would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
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The best way to get your mic to come through the stream without having to download extra software is to first enable Stereo Mix (Also known as What U Hear) and set that as your primary recording device. Then go to your primary mic, go to properties, go to listen, enable listen to this device. That will allow the mic to go through your speakers. In FME select Stereo Mix as the device to record audio from. Easy as pie.
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Try reducing the quality on the Xsplit stream to something like 6. Lot of people stream with it lower than 10 but at higher resolutions, so I imagine that helps with lag.
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On May 02 2011 01:07 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
The best way to get your mic to come through the stream without having to download extra software is to first enable Stereo Mix (Also known as What U Hear) and set that as your primary recording device. Then go to your primary mic, go to properties, go to listen, enable listen to this device. That will allow the mic to go through your speakers. In FME select Stereo Mix as the device to record audio from. Easy as pie.
Cool, this works. But it's not really usable since I have to listen to myself talk/type/click all the time. It's kinda annoying. If this would only send the audio through my stream then it'd be perfect.
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Are you using a line in/line out headset or a usb headset?
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I use SCFH DSF + FMLE as well, you want want to raise your keyframe, I currently have mine set to 4.
With your 1 second keyframe, it's sending a raw uncompressed full image of what's on your screen every one second. So if your camera is moving a lot, the picture becomes pixelated/blurry when trying to adjust to the new full image.
This is because of the way video compression works. Only changing data between one frame to the next frame, gets stored in the data stream, while unchanging data uses the reference frame to display itself.
With a 1 second keyframe, you're resetting the reference frame too fast.
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On May 02 2011 01:27 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Are you using a line in/line out headset or a usb headset?
Using Sennheiser HD650s plugged straight into the headphone in/front speakers in jack on my Realtek onboard sound. I don't normally use this, I have a digital setup which I use most of the time but stereo mix doesn't work with digital audio.
On May 02 2011 01:28 yks wrote:
I use SCFH DSF + FMLE as well, you want want to raise your keyframe, I currently have mine set to 4.
With your 1 second keyframe, it's sending a raw uncompressed full image of what's on your screen every one second. So if your camera is moving a lot, the picture becomes pixelated/blurry when trying to adjust to the new full image.
This is because of the way video compression works. Only changing data between one frame to the next frame, gets stored in the data stream, while unchanging data uses the reference frame to display itself.
With a 1 second keyframe, you're resetting the reference frame too fast.
Aha. I thought 1 second was the best to minimize the pixelation. Cheers.
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Ok, this is how you get around that problem with a line in/out headset. You need to buy some kind of speaker system. Anything. Just a cheap set will do that has a line in slot for your headset to plug into. So you leave your playback devices as your speakers, your recording as the Stereo Mix but when you plug your headset into the speakers, all the sound will be transfered into your headset but your stream will still hear everything just fine and it will minimize the echo the stream hears and what you hear.
Other then that, if you can't afford speakers, (You can buy REALLY cheap ones) then what you have to do is just deal with it sadly. =( That's what I was doing before I finally caved in and bought a speaker system.
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On May 02 2011 01:28 yks wrote:
I use SCFH DSF + FMLE as well, you want want to raise your keyframe, I currently have mine set to 4.
With your 1 second keyframe, it's sending a raw uncompressed full image of what's on your screen every one second. So if your camera is moving a lot, the picture becomes pixelated/blurry when trying to adjust to the new full image.
This is because of the way video compression works. Only changing data between one frame to the next frame, gets stored in the data stream, while unchanging data uses the reference frame to display itself.
With a 1 second keyframe, you're resetting the reference frame too fast.
Here's a recording at 4 keyframes:
http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284912027
Can't really tell if it's better or worse 
On May 02 2011 01:41 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Ok, this is how you get around that problem with a line in/out headset. You need to buy some kind of speaker system. Anything. Just a cheap set will do that has a line in slot for your headset to plug into. So you leave your playback devices as your speakers, your recording as the Stereo Mix but when you plug your headset into the speakers, all the sound will be transfered into your headset but your stream will still hear everything just fine and it will minimize the echo the stream hears and what you hear.
Other then that, if you can't afford speakers, (You can buy REALLY cheap ones) then what you have to do is just deal with it sadly. =( That's what I was doing before I finally caved in and bought a speaker system.
Hmm. I do indeed have a speaker system. Well, it's a super old hifi amp and bookshelf speakers. So basically, plug the amp into my sound card. Use that as my speakers and plug my headphones into the amp? From what I can tell that would work the same as what you have suggested. Let me try it quickly.
edit: I tried this, and when I enable listen to this device on my mic, I can still hear myself talk and type pretty clearly. I have the amp plugged into my sound card and my headphones plugged into the amp.
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Never had problems with fps drops. You need to have the xsplit window minimized when streaming otherwise it can/will lag.
xsplit resolution @ 1080p
sc2 resolution @ 1080p
quality 8 / 2000Kb/s / 4000Kb/s buffer
Checked Options:
Show mouse
Show mouse clicks
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I miss using FME + SCFH DS. Ever since I installed xsplit my FME will not recognize any other capture program, only xsplit.
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i5 2500 4.5k at 1.34
8 gigs ddr3 1333
560 TI (slightly overclocked)
32gb ADATA SSD
1tb f3 spinpoint
600w StealthIIXtreme
I run xsplit at nearly 100 fps, streaming at 720p with 650 bitrate and 6 quality.
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Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly.
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On May 02 2011 18:21 Steverman wrote:
Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly.
2.5 doesn't work for me anymore, and when it does it uses no less CPU power than 3.1. The CPU isn't my bottleneck, I have by far enough CPU power. I don't have enough upload speed.
How do you actually use Dxtory? I have it installed and I've looked through all the settings but I don't know how to stream with it.
edit: nevermind I got it to work, but it seems no different than SCFH DS. Except for the fact it won't record my desktop. So I'd rather use SCFH DS anyway.
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On May 02 2011 18:21 Steverman wrote:
Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly.
Stutter... as in "I play with no lag but the stream lags"? And I forgot to mention that 3.x is waay too slow.
Did you use VP6 or H264?
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On May 02 2011 22:26 Steverman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 18:21 Steverman wrote:
Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly. Stutter... as in "I play with no lag but the stream lags"? And I forgot to mention that 3.x is waay too slow. Did you use VP6 or H264?
I got Dxtory to work without any stutter in game, so now it works no differently than SCFH DS.
http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284972389
This is with VP6. Everything on 720p (Dxtory, input size in FME and output size), 1000kbps, 25 fps, "good quality, good framerate" in VP6 settings. Looks awful.
What do you mean 3.x is too slow? If you look at that video, there's no frame drops or lag or anything. It's just the quality is bad because I can't get VP6 to ever look good. I was using 3.1 by the way. When I try 2.5, I click start, it tries to start streaming but suddenly says "streaming stopped" (something like that) for no apparent reason. It's like 2.5 can't connect to justin.tv anymore, or I would use it instead of 3.1.
3.2 just crashes whenever I choose stereo mix as my audio source. 3.1 is the only stable of FME for me apparently.
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On May 02 2011 22:31 scottyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 22:26 Steverman wrote:On May 02 2011 18:21 Steverman wrote:
Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly. Stutter... as in "I play with no lag but the stream lags"? And I forgot to mention that 3.x is waay too slow. Did you use VP6 or H264? I got Dxtory to work without any stutter in game, so now it works no differently than SCFH DS. http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284972389This is with VP6. Everything on 720p (Dxtory, input size in FME and output size), 1000kbps, 25 fps, "good quality, good framerate" in VP6 settings. Looks awful. What do you mean 3.x is too slow? If you look at that video, there's no frame drops or lag or anything. It's just the quality is bad because I can't get VP6 to ever look good. I was using 3.1 by the way. When I try 2.5, I click start, it tries to start streaming but suddenly says "streaming stopped" (something like that) for no apparent reason. It's like 2.5 can't connect to justin.tv anymore, or I would use it instead of 3.1. 3.2 just crashes whenever I choose stereo mix as my audio source. 3.1 is the only stable of FME for me apparently.
You can't see frame drops just by looking at the video. I don't know if you're launching with CMD because you can see how many frames are dropped. I don't use FME with GUI.
But yes, there aren't many frame drops to make it look laggy. Try the next "good" quality setting to see if it gets better... although that may cause frame drops as it did for me.
Anyway I looked at your previous 2 videos without Dxtory. It doesn' look fluid as it does with Dxtory
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On May 02 2011 22:41 Steverman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 22:31 scottyyy wrote:On May 02 2011 22:26 Steverman wrote:On May 02 2011 18:21 Steverman wrote:
Choosing H264 over VP6 is just plain stupid if you want quality.
As you said yourself it gets very pixelated. And let me tell you why. When bandwidth is the bottleneck H264 doesn't drop frames, the quality drops, which is in your case the pixelation.
VP6, however, keeps the quality and drops frames instead, which may be the cause for the stutter and lag.
As for screen capture programs they both suck because the computer performance drops. I mentioned a program called Dxtory in another thread, which can turn the output to a file or a stream. Dxtory doesn't slow down your computer and is much better than any other program I tried so far. The only problem is the watermark that comes with the trial version. It cost 3600 yen (roughly 45 USD) and is probably worth it if you're into streaming.
By the way: Use FME 2.5 (cmd version) instead. It is much more CPU friendly. Stutter... as in "I play with no lag but the stream lags"? And I forgot to mention that 3.x is waay too slow. Did you use VP6 or H264? I got Dxtory to work without any stutter in game, so now it works no differently than SCFH DS. http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284972389This is with VP6. Everything on 720p (Dxtory, input size in FME and output size), 1000kbps, 25 fps, "good quality, good framerate" in VP6 settings. Looks awful. What do you mean 3.x is too slow? If you look at that video, there's no frame drops or lag or anything. It's just the quality is bad because I can't get VP6 to ever look good. I was using 3.1 by the way. When I try 2.5, I click start, it tries to start streaming but suddenly says "streaming stopped" (something like that) for no apparent reason. It's like 2.5 can't connect to justin.tv anymore, or I would use it instead of 3.1. 3.2 just crashes whenever I choose stereo mix as my audio source. 3.1 is the only stable of FME for me apparently. You can't see frame drops just by looking at the video. I don't know if you're launching with CMD because you can see how many frames are dropped. I don't use FME with GUI. But yes, there aren't many frame drops to make it look laggy. Try the next "good" quality setting to see if it gets better... although that may cause frame drops as it did for me. Anyway I looked at your previous 2 videos without Dxtory. It doesn' look fluid as it does with Dxtory
Is there any way to make Dxtory record your desktop/programs outside of games?
edit: http://www.justin.tv/scottyyy/b/284979708
Here is "best quality, average framerate". 1500 dropped frames during that recording. It still looks terrible. How is it possible to make VP6 look good? :/
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EPT
