EPTBummed he won't be returning to play SC2 after service either.
INnoVation to begin military service, WTL likely to be fin…
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yoshi245
United States2972 Posts
Bummed he won't be returning to play SC2 after service either. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On July 09 2021 22:44 Aeceus wrote: If he had continued the last 2-3 years how he did in the previous 4-5 then sure, but I think he is out of the discussion now. Because of recency bias? Rogue has been a championship contender for a much shorter timespan and most people think he's a contender. I still pick Maru over Inno but I don't think there's a large gap and I don't think it's unreasonable to call Inno the Goat when you look at his achievements. | ||
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Howard_Kao
China261 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26514 Posts
On July 11 2021 22:36 Charoisaur wrote: Because of recency bias? Rogue has been a championship contender for a much shorter timespan and most people think he's a contender. I still pick Maru over Inno but I don't think there's a large gap and I don't think it's unreasonable to call Inno the Goat when you look at his achievements. Yeah, there’s nobody in the scene at this stage who has come close to keeping their top shape for the majority of SC2’s lifespan, so it is very much trying to cast your mind back to different eras. Inno is one of those players who was bloody terrifying to behold and one of very, very few who IMO had a period as the outright best player in the world. Regardless of what was won, and he also won bloody plenty. I can’t think of many, Mvp had a period where yes, he wasn’t winning everything but he just was the best SC2 player and shaping how Terran was played, with his combo of being mechanically ahead of the field and no dummy strategically either. Perhaps others will disagree but that first period of Inno hitting his stride, he was just the best player in the world, and that’s definitely got to count for something in GOAT discussions. Especially when, generally these things are measured more in cumulated achievement over many years. Bear in mind many of us had been watching SC2 for a while, the game was pretty fleshed out and I just vividly recall a ‘what is this? This guy is a fucking monster’ and being blown away by Inno once he got rolling. Maru has probably had that mantle at some point, I think Serral during his monster year and a bit, Life at his peak too. | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 11 2021 22:36 Charoisaur wrote: Because of recency bias? Rogue has been a championship contender for a much shorter timespan and most people think he's a contender. I still pick Maru over Inno but I don't think there's a large gap and I don't think it's unreasonable to call Inno the Goat when you look at his achievements. I wouldn't say it's a recency bias, Rogue won huge accolades, that's why. | ||
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
P.S. it’d be nice if there was a running thread of retired SC2 pros and “where are they now,” but understand they become private citizens at that point. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On July 12 2021 21:09 tommey.liang wrote: P.S. it’d be nice if there was a running thread of retired SC2 pros and “where are they now,”. I second this. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1277 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On July 12 2021 21:09 tommey.liang wrote: arguably a top-10 greatest SC2 player of all time please edit this, it's insulting | ||
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Terrorbladder
2720 Posts
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
You have INno in top 10, though??? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
he's at least top 3 and not "arguably in top 10" | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13994 Posts
Arguably top 10 seriously underrates his accomplishments/talent | ||
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
Add in recently the likes of Maru, Stats, Zest, Serral, maybe Dark, maybe ByuN. That's already eight-nine top players, so INno is in my top 10 of all-time, but not top five. Sadly I just wasn't there to witness INnoVation winning four GSL titles, but I'm sure he makes the case for top 3, definitely that if we go according to prize money earned. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On July 14 2021 04:43 tommey.liang wrote: To each their own. Most of my SC2 progaming viewing was during the Wings of Liberty era, so I'm skewed toward Mvp, NesTea, MC, MarineKing being the first four of seven (not in order) spots. (and yes, I know I wrote "all time" in my original post). My SC2 viewing is from 2010-2012 and 2019 to now. Add in recently the likes of Maru, Stats, Zest, Serral, maybe Dark, maybe ByuN. That's already eight-nine top players, so INno is in my top 10 of all-time, but not top five. Sadly I just wasn't there to witness INnoVation winning four GSL titles, but I'm sure he makes the case for top 3, definitely that if we go according to prize money earned. Also, Rogue not in top 10 is really questionable. That guy won tone of accolades and completed resume (=grand slam records) which others might not achieve in their life, even to extend of rewriting the history being the only GOAT of offline BO7 series. | ||
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
On July 14 2021 05:17 swarminfestor wrote: Also, Rogue not in top 10 is really questionable. That guy won tone of accolades and completed resume (=grand slam records) which others might not achieve in their life, even to extend of rewriting the history being the only GOAT of offline BO7 series. Oh yeah for sure. I do not disagree with you there. Reminder: There are only so many pros you can remember to include on a post. I see in your signature you are a Rogue and Maru fanboy, which is understandable as both are commendable, respectable, interstellar players. Their achievements are out of this world. I think we need to be cognizant that this is an online forum for SC2 discussion at the end of the day and different perspectives and opinions of players are expected. Nitpicking what one poster said such as "Wow you have him in top 10, but not in top 5? Shame on you" is pretty condescending and discourages new users from posting. If I'm being too serious, I think what others are thinking of my thinking is too serious. (lol) Now if there was a lesser-known or lesser player included in the top 10, that deserves more alarm. Won't name any to not belittle anyone. +1 for another post for me, I suppose. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26514 Posts
On July 14 2021 05:39 tommey.liang wrote: Oh yeah for sure. I do not disagree with you there. Reminder: There are only so many pros you can remember to include on a post. I see in your signature you are a Rogue and Maru fanboy, which is understandable as both are commendable, respectable, interstellar players. Their achievements are out of this world. I think we need to be cognizant that this is an online forum for SC2 discussion at the end of the day and different perspectives and opinions of players are expected. Nitpicking what one poster said such as "Wow you have him in top 10, but not in top 5? Shame on you" is pretty condescending and discourages new users from posting. If I'm being too serious, I think what others are thinking of my thinking is too serious. (lol) Now if there was a lesser-known or lesser player included in the top 10, that deserves more alarm. Won't name any to not belittle anyone. +1 for another post for me, I suppose. Sure people jumped on you a bit much for that. It is an Innovation military/retirement thread so, while understandable given you missed his best years, probably not the wisest to come in and say a guy most have in top 3-GOAT is ‘arguably top 10’. Would be like me saying ‘hey I haven’t watched tennis for 20 years but this Roger Federer guy is arguably in the top 10’ in a thread full of Federer fans Anyway do stick around, we’re a nice bunch mostly! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 14 2021 04:43 tommey.liang wrote: To each their own. Most of my SC2 progaming viewing was during the Wings of Liberty era, so I'm skewed toward Mvp, NesTea, MC, MarineKing being the first four of seven (not in order) spots. (and yes, I know I wrote "all time" in my original post). My SC2 viewing is from 2010-2012 and 2019 to now. Add in recently the likes of Maru, Stats, Zest, Serral, maybe Dark, maybe ByuN. That's already eight-nine top players, so INno is in my top 10 of all-time, but not top five. Sadly I just wasn't there to witness INnoVation winning four GSL titles, but I'm sure he makes the case for top 3, definitely that if we go according to prize money earned. Let's make it easy for you. Innovation basically reached Mvp's accolades and has more ,Maru overtook him so fast Mvp saw just blur Rogue won multiple world championship and some code S titles.In the lamen terms - Inno, Maru and Rogue won more than Mvp. If there's Mvp on the list there has to be these three. Unless you're making the list of Koreans with a German nickname, Jürgen is the only one?  | ||
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
On July 14 2021 19:11 deacon.frost wrote: Let's make it easy for you. Innovation basically reached Mvp's accolades and has more ,Maru overtook him so fast Mvp saw just blur Rogue won multiple world championship and some code S titles.In the lamen terms - Inno, Maru and Rogue won more than Mvp. If there's Mvp on the list there has to be these three. Unless you're making the list of Koreans with a German nickname, Jürgen is the only one? Thank you. That is great. I didn't realize my putting "arguably top-10 SC2 player of all-time in INno" in the moment of my post would stir up such controversy. It seems as though Tommey Liang is the focus of this thread in the past seven+ posts, rather than INnoVation aka Lee Shin-hyung. Are we focused on myself, a person who hasn't even played since 2011, nitpicking the order of the greatest players leaving for military on this thread, or expressing/celebrating bittersweet feelings for one of the all-time greats retiring? Does it matter what Tommey's order is??? I hope we can put the *spotlight* back onto INnoVation aka LSH. No need to inflate my importance/perspective anymore. | ||
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