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After reading feardragon's farewell to full time casting, I wanted to mention something i've struggled with in casting of basically all casters in SC2. Before anyone thinks i'm going to put down anybody please be patient and read.
The chemistry between casters in basically all english streams is lacking. What I mean by chemistry is the ability for casters to create interesting banter when the game is slow, or general interesting commentary about a player or matchup. Often times I see one caster trying to make a joke or say something interesting only to have their casting partner to not get where they are going and then the conversation becomes awkward and disjointed. Its this aspect of commentary that I think is often overlooked and what also makes a decent cast become a great cast. Good chemistry between two commentators and value and depth to the game and makes professional games and tournaments more enjoyable to watch. The best example I have of good chemistry between commentators is Artosis and Tasteless. They have worked together for so long casting the GSL seasons that they are able to play off of funny quips and thoughts the other person has. So when the game is slow there isn't dead air.
This leads me into my suggestion I'd love for the WCS to pick up on. Instead of rotating out casters in this sort of musical chairs mix-and-match style. Casters should be hired and evaluated as a pair vs individually. They should be an organized team and always cast games together. By doing this they would build chemistry and create a more substantial back and forth dialogue, and ultimately create a superior quality stream.
Another thing I want to touch on is the level of professionalism exuded by the english casters at the "desk", while I'm sure every event carries its own set of technical issues and surprises, there is a level of professionalism within the banter that should be maintained (and usually is). If you watch any TV news cast, you see the back and forth friendly banter anchors have with each other. You also see that they are prepared to fill time and know how to handle curveballs during live broadcasts. I'd love to see the desk of WCS casters show these attributes more often during casts. Maintaining a level of professionalism during a large tournament helps viewers know they will receive a consistent cast quality. While I specifically don't want to call anybody out for bad behavior I think sometimes these casters can confuse the WCS setting with their own personal streams and its that mindset that causes the problem.
While this may just be me, and an overall unpopular opinion. I just want to say I really like a lot of the casters out there and I just want to see them improve. I want to have more than one caster team that I get excited to listen to and I believe this is the way it can happen.
EDIT:
After reading much of the replies, I wanted to clarify something, I don't think the casting is bad in the slightest, and in fact I think the casting is good and with the addition of some new casters the lineup the commentary has been better than ever. My suggestions are mostly for taking casting from good to great.
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Ego. Ego ruins shows. All Casters in the SC2, in my opinion, except for Rotti, has too much Ego.
Can we get some people with great personalities instead?
I agree with you for mostly everything you said though.
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I feel that ex-players are oftentimes the best casters. I loved Grubby as a caster, I really enjoy Snute, Harstem, DeMusliM casting, and many more. So I'm hoping to see some of the players of yore join as casters, and I think that - in general - they have good chemistry with most other (hype/play-by-play) casters + Show Spoiler +except with Rifkin, but he's truly... unique
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I like the European/Aussie casters (Rotti, ToD, Demu, PiG, Maynarde, etc.) because they feel more laid back and also articulate their points pretty well. The pro/GM insights also help. I'd say a duo should always have an Euro/Aussie caster and someone else. The Americans are too "post-modern."
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United States33350 Posts
you weren't utterly deferential and apologetic so casters aren't gonna listen to this man 
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Honestly, I like WCS cast most of the times and I'm fine with all of the casters. The only problem I have is when they start with cringe jokes and go on with that mood for hours, ignoring what's happening in the game. There was a day in WCS EU challenger , can't remember if Winter or Spring, that I had to turn off the sound of the stream because the annoying jokes became unbearable. I thought I was the only one who was bothered, then I watched the VOD of the day on Youtube and most of the comments were complaining about the cast.
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One of the biggest issues is rotating casters, and casters not understand there place. You cannot have 2 play by play guys and 2 analysts at a time. It doesn't work, it has never worked, it never will work. And people need to know what they are good at, if you are good at calling the action, stick to that most of the time and wait for your partner to bring up strategy to talk about it and vice versa. And what was said about ego is true. There are a few casters who think that they are the most important thing in the production, they talk over others, and they don't note things happening in game because they are talking about something else. It is just a clusterfuck right now.
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I don't see it, there are many great casting combos and it always seems very natural.
Rotti and ToD
Rotti and Demu
Rotti and Pig
Rotti and Maynarde
Rotti and iNcontroL
Rotti and Nathanias
Just to name a few.
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Canada8989 Posts
I like pretty much everyone, I don't think anyone is particularly out of it and I can't remember a time the WCS casters got on my nerve
The only problem I have is that sometime there's too many play by play casters and not enough analysis casters, probably because there is not that many casters that can do deep analysis both because it take an incredible amount of time to study the game and because it's hard to find the timing to do it.
I think it's mostly a SC2 problems, it's harder to get than other games by just watching it, for example if you take Wardi, I like him a lot and he's a great casters but despite casting probably more than everyone else in the world I don't feel like he has that much of a better understanding of the game than an hardcore fan who would just watch all his stream, Rifikin would be another good example of that or Kaldhor if we go old school.
It's not necessarily a criticism, it's hard to be a solid analysis caster without being able to be full time in SC and you can get thrown out of the meta loop pretty fast (for example Nate who's now more of a play by play/host instead of an analyst after he started doing some more things) and no one is 2014 Day9 level yet we are ok.
But right now we have about 3 pure analyst in Rotti, Artosis and Demuslim and 2-3 who are kind of in-between with Pig-ZG-Tod and Incontrol, so maybe more analysis would be nice sometime, or have a solid rotation to give everyone a more defined role.
WCS analysis is also a lot harder since you can't prep for the games, if you cast GSL you already know who's playing and everyone has a big number of replay, when you have 2 groups of NA ladder heroes, or learn who's your gonna cast 30 minutes before it, it's pretty much impossible to have a good feel on everyone play and sniff out the builds or the mind games.
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I just think a main issue is lack of actual professional training in the side of broadcasting. Filling dead air and creating conversation between casters doesn't come out of nowhere - it takes years of practice and work on dictation and proper English to really be successful. Proper casting akin to traditional sports is very difficult to achieve without specifically working towards fixing mistakes.
I would say out of all the casters out there, those with the most experience are the obvious frontrunners in terms of quality, i.e. Tastosis, Rotti, Incontrol, and Nathanias. With the exception of Incontrol who is an English major and has a good grasp on flow and technique when it comes to casting, the remainder are "career casters", meaning they have spent a large amount of time working on their abilities and getting used to it. This is not meant to exclude other "career casters" like Wardi, Rifkin, Maynarde, ZombieGrub or even feardragon, but these are prime examples of the pinnacle of SC2 casting talent.
Besides consistent practice and adjustments over time, natural talent also plays a factor, and knowledge of the influences it as well. Some people just have a knack for it based on intelligence, personality, knowledge of the product and "intangibles". An excellent example of someone who broke into the sports casting business is Tony Romo of the NFL, who is considered one of the best in the business after two years being a commentator, with no prior experience in the field. Obviously, as a past player, he is extremely knowledgeable of NFL talent and strategy, but it is also his charm and charisma that puts him in high regard.
SC2 casters seem to lack that "charm" a lot of the time. With the exception to those I named above as top-quality, the remainder of casters tend to be more "by the books" and straight to the point. Jokes and banter oftentimes feels shoehorned in just to fill gaps, but this is not the fault of the casters. The way most major SC2 tournaments work is that they swap commentator groups and combinations on the fly based on matchup and availability. This means that throughout a weekender, the same duo of casters may be together on main stream for a limited number of matches over the course of the weekend. This means that chemistry doesn't have time to develop and a steady flow and comfort level isn't easily achieved. In most traditional sports, the same 2-3 commentators stay together - going back to the NFL for example, duos like Jim Nantz/Tony Romo, Joe Buck/Troy Aikman, and Al Michael/Cris Collinsworth all have a steady schedule of working together and the ability to work together to make eachother better. This does not exist in SC2, outside of Tastosis.
This is why casting is so hit-or-miss with a lot of people. Consistency, experience, and raw talent are huge factors that cannot be ignored. Duos with more experience together are more likely to be better, and those with less experience may struggle more and receive more criticism.
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I disagree wholeheartedly. I just hate to listen to casters who are really good at filling time with their stories but don't seem to give a shit about SC2, and even during important moments in games would rather talk about unrelated stuff. WCS casting is way better than GSL.
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On June 06 2019 04:23 Musicus wrote:
I don't see it, there are many great casting combos and it always seems very natural.
Rotti and ToD
Rotti and Demu
Rotti and Pig
Rotti and Maynarde
Rotti and iNcontroL
Rotti and Nathanias
Just to name a few.
You forgot Rotti and MustacheRotti, Rotti and EyepatchRotti, and Rotti and CastingSucksBallsWithoutMe
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On June 06 2019 07:13 yubo56 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2019 04:23 Musicus wrote:
I don't see it, there are many great casting combos and it always seems very natural.
Rotti and ToD
Rotti and Demu
Rotti and Pig
Rotti and Maynarde
Rotti and iNcontroL
Rotti and Nathanias
Just to name a few. You forgot Rotti and MustacheRotti, Rotti and EyepatchRotti, and Rotti and CastingSucksBallsWithoutMe
Top comment!
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Learn french and watch O'gaming 
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As a Chinese audience, I think too much "chemistry" will ruin the tournament.
There are no professional caster in China, only anchors with memes.
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On June 06 2019 07:13 yubo56 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2019 04:23 Musicus wrote:
I don't see it, there are many great casting combos and it always seems very natural.
Rotti and ToD
Rotti and Demu
Rotti and Pig
Rotti and Maynarde
Rotti and iNcontroL
Rotti and Nathanias
Just to name a few. You forgot Rotti and MustacheRotti, Rotti and EyepatchRotti, and Rotti and CastingSucksBallsWithoutMe
Should be MustacheCaster and PirateCaster 
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On June 06 2019 04:38 Nakajin wrote:
WCS analysis is also a lot harder since you can't prep for the games, if you cast GSL you already know who's playing and everyone has a big number of replay, when you have 2 groups of NA ladder heroes, or learn who's your gonna cast 30 minutes before it, it's pretty much impossible to have a good feel on everyone play and sniff out the builds or the mind games.
I would rather say that is an opportunity for casters to distinguish themselves. It's not totally unreasonable for a caster to research almost everyone playing in WCS. It's not like there are that many new faces everytime. And preparation is already a big part of the job. Sure, it might not be as easy as just looking at Twitch replays for lesser known players, but there are other ways to inquire if you are invested.
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some of it is just a lack of talent
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On June 07 2019 22:55 Tayar wrote:
some of it is just a lack of talent
Lol, be careful saying that
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i think all the casters are great. not even joking.
some of them have sub par analysis sometimes imo but that is okay. Casting/entertainment wise I think all of them, even fear dragon who quit in part because he felt he was not good enough, were well spoken and interesting and enhanced entertainment.
incontrol and rotterdam are my favorites though. they bring the lolz
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All casters are definitely trying their best, some are more liked than others. (no shit) Bashing on them is easy, as they are very exposed to the audience. Personally, I prefer laid back / analytical casters over memelords and hype machines. But you gotta have a hype person in the huge events, Maynarde has been doing an exceptional job in the last years.
Imho, the overall quality in casting has never been higher. Just think back to the old MLG / IGN days, we've come a long way.
Rotti is the man, Incontrol can be hilarious at times - especially at HSC. He's a polarizing figure for sure, but the scene would be the same without him. He's done a lot for the community.
Shoutout to Zombiegrub and Demu as well.
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I think the idea of keeping teams that work, instead of rotating all the time is a good one.
Also trying to intentionally split the roles and/or focus of each caster per cast might help to increase analysis and the flow of the casting.
I'm onboard with most of the OP's points.
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Northern Ireland25077 Posts
OP is bang on IMO, casting combos are always how big tournaments are presented, it seems a giant oversight to not consider how combinations work together.
I’ve done more casting than most here I imagine, even at a local LAN event kind of level. Way less than the pros or community casters, but some at least.
I’m not completely socially awkward but I’m not Mr Charisma either, I’m reasonably funny but quite dry, my archon is way more extroverted and is a good hype man.
I think it goes beyond analyst/colour too, style of humour, delivery, they all kind of factor in too. Comedy often works best with the straight man for example, I love Incontrol when he’s paired with the right guy for example, I wouldn’t necessarily enjoy two Incontrol’s trying to outdo each other.
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Russian Federation195 Posts
You have to have more casters on the event to do this (because casters need rest too) which basically means more expenses. Frankly, I doubt that any TO will ever decide that outcome will worth it, at least in SC2.
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i think some people just need to realize that not everyone is going to personally subjectively like the personality of every caster and that's fine and doesn't mean anything is wrong with anything
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rotterdam. Thats it. i appreciate T&A . . . lol but they have had me with my head in my hands that many times im wondering where the accoldae is . . .really ive stated this from day 1 but TL have banned my original account since then
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On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
rotterdam. Thats it. i appreciate T&A . . . lol but they have had me with my head in my hands that many times im wondering where the accoldae is . . .really ive stated this from day 1 but TL have banned my original account since then
the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone.
Khaldor and wolf I actually really enjoyed. wolf and Valdez were kinda 1000 words of nonsense, that's why moonglade got brought in. Valdez was the driverest driver, wolf didn't have the analyst chops to carry him.
the fact that the best English casters are all essentially not going to move out there makes the gap between tastosis and all other options very large.
what makes tastosis so great is that occasionally tasteless can cross over into colour analysis, and artosis will drive. wolf and khaldor did this too. I think that's because khaldor was play by play but seemed to have a sharper mind for the game than wolf (I still loved wolf though).
that's why rotti works so well with all other casters, is that he can and often does both. in control and nate to a lesser extent.
note: this blurring of responsibilities does require good chemistry otherwise it's a disaster more than normal.
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Northern Ireland25077 Posts
On June 09 2019 10:44 RatzBarcode wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
rotterdam. Thats it. i appreciate T&A . . . lol but they have had me with my head in my hands that many times im wondering where the accoldae is . . .really ive stated this from day 1 but TL have banned my original account since then the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone. Khaldor and wolf I actually really enjoyed. wolf and Valdez were kinda 1000 words of nonsense, that's why moonglade got brought in. Valdez was the driverest driver, wolf didn't have the analyst chops to carry him. the fact that the best English casters are all essentially not going to move out there makes the gap between tastosis and all other options very large. what makes tastosis so great is that occasionally tasteless can cross over into colour analysis, and artosis will drive. wolf and khaldor did this too. I think that's because khaldor was play by play but seemed to have a sharper mind for the game than wolf (I still loved wolf though). that's why rotti works so well with all other casters, is that he can and often does both. in control and nate to a lesser extent. note: this blurring of responsibilities does require good chemistry otherwise it's a disaster more than normal.
Wolfdor were good IMO, really good in fact when they got properly into the groove, never understood the negativity towards them.
Tastosis are great but they don’t get flak for the same things that basically most other casters get flak for. If caster duo x misread, or don’t comment on something while rambling on banter, they get slaughtered. Tastosis don’t.
I love Tastosis and tbh know enough about the game I don’t really need that stuff.
For me I’d say something akin to ‘Tastosis have that easy chemistry that they CAN do those things’, but I find too much criticism is couched in ridiculous double standards and isn’t particularly useful. I mean other casters get slaughtered for game knowledge who are active GM players, by the same people who want Tasteless.
I love NoRegret and Artosis’ chemistry on InDepth, one they’re building all the time. I’m not 100% sure it would translate to a good WCS cast, but I think it could potentially be really good. It also might not work in that setting, but NoRegret seems in his element talking about strategic intricacies and Rapid and him haven’t figured the flow yet, where Artosis seems to dovetail well.
Also, we don’t have Code A anymore. So basically whoever knows Starcraft and is in Korea just sits tight for the odd occasion Tastosis can’t do it. So you end up with a combo that doesn’t get much practice, who get given an Ro8 where they basically can’t win. Many are immediately annoyed that they’re not Tastosis, and they don’t have a regular gig to build up the kind of effortless chemistry that the legendary teaching have.
Elsewhere it’s less of an issue, casters get tons of events to do, or community stuff etc. GSL casting its Tastosis orntheir backups who don’t get to cast at all if Tastosis are about.
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Northern Ireland25077 Posts
Two of the best casters in the history of SC2 when they were used properly were Grubby and IdrA, IMO anyway, filling the analyst role. Played at a higher level than those we have now, but also were good at communicating those idiosyncrasies
They were big losses to the scene solely in that capacity.
Grubby has his other Grubby things, if memory serves IdrA entertainer the idea but regular gigs were a closed shop and didn’t really fulfil his competitive drive.
Loss to my tastes, but Grubby seems to be having a great time with his true love in Warcraft 3, and IdrA when he last appeared on a community show seemed to be doing really well in life so I can’t complain too much!
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On June 06 2019 03:53 Waxangel wrote:you weren't utterly deferential and apologetic so casters aren't gonna listen to this man
Funny you say that on the website where not being deferential and apologetic to players and casters can get you banned.
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I think incontrol and rotti especially are fantastic together, especially when inc genuinely cracks him up. I don't think any casters are particularly terrible, but then again comparing to tastosis...most caster duos don't have over a decade long friendship's worth of inside jokes to mine.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I think the casting is great. Seems like the OP has an unrealistic expectation that every game should be a Tastosis style cast. If that's all you want then just watch GSL.
I think Incontrol is hysterical and I really enjoyed all the casting from challenger last night. The rotating caster pairing gives a nice bit of variety.
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On June 09 2019 11:08 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2019 10:44 RatzBarcode wrote:On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
rotterdam. Thats it. i appreciate T&A . . . lol but they have had me with my head in my hands that many times im wondering where the accoldae is . . .really ive stated this from day 1 but TL have banned my original account since then the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone. Khaldor and wolf I actually really enjoyed. wolf and Valdez were kinda 1000 words of nonsense, that's why moonglade got brought in. Valdez was the driverest driver, wolf didn't have the analyst chops to carry him. the fact that the best English casters are all essentially not going to move out there makes the gap between tastosis and all other options very large. what makes tastosis so great is that occasionally tasteless can cross over into colour analysis, and artosis will drive. wolf and khaldor did this too. I think that's because khaldor was play by play but seemed to have a sharper mind for the game than wolf (I still loved wolf though). that's why rotti works so well with all other casters, is that he can and often does both. in control and nate to a lesser extent. note: this blurring of responsibilities does require good chemistry otherwise it's a disaster more than normal. Wolfdor were good IMO, really good in fact when they got properly into the groove, never understood the negativity towards them. Tastosis are great but they don’t get flak for the same things that basically most other casters get flak for. If caster duo x misread, or don’t comment on something while rambling on banter, they get slaughtered. Tastosis don’t. I love Tastosis and tbh know enough about the game I don’t really need that stuff. For me I’d say something akin to ‘Tastosis have that easy chemistry that they CAN do those things’, but I find too much criticism is couched in ridiculous double standards and isn’t particularly useful. I mean other casters get slaughtered for game knowledge who are active GM players, by the same people who want Tasteless. I love NoRegret and Artosis’ chemistry on InDepth, one they’re building all the time. I’m not 100% sure it would translate to a good WCS cast, but I think it could potentially be really good. It also might not work in that setting, but NoRegret seems in his element talking about strategic intricacies and Rapid and him haven’t figured the flow yet, where Artosis seems to dovetail well. Also, we don’t have Code A anymore. So basically whoever knows Starcraft and is in Korea just sits tight for the odd occasion Tastosis can’t do it. So you end up with a combo that doesn’t get much practice, who get given an Ro8 where they basically can’t win. Many are immediately annoyed that they’re not Tastosis, and they don’t have a regular gig to build up the kind of effortless chemistry that the legendary teaching have. Elsewhere it’s less of an issue, casters get tons of events to do, or community stuff etc. GSL casting its Tastosis orntheir backups who don’t get to cast at all if Tastosis are about.
I think Artosis and noregret (I don't think it was rapid) did a day of ro32 this season cause Tasteless was sick I think. I skipped it cause that and the players were no one special, but it was probably pretty good after hearing noregret yesterday. I think his voice is fine if he's studio casting and he has a competent driver next to him. I think hype voice is a little overdone in American sports broadcasting anyway.
Rapid and noregret got murdered in Twitch chat (of course) but really it wasn't that bad. Like I said, if anything, it highlighted the disparity of Tastosis and anyone that would potentially replace them. And how much they're needed. Like you said, the English caster bench in Korea is understandably very thin.
Someone on the boards yesterday mentioned that noregret does his research and knows his shit. It's true, yesterday Rapid kind of held him back. Rapid talked over him, called things early, he made a good attempt at serving noregret with questions, but Rapid had to be corrected on basic stuff often. Rapid would like, immediately self-contradict himself often, showing maybe some confusion. Probably the worst, he took a lot of oxygen/talking time from someone with more game knowledge and preparation. noregret didn't really bungle any calls, although he did call things early too, which is something a lot of learning casters do.
Noregret I felt added to the game, or paired with a WCS caster or Artosis/Tasteless, would make a pretty solid cast. I think Rapid is an alright dude, he just was put in a tough spot.
I think of all the low-knowledge play by play drivers, I felt like Kaelaris was the best. He worked hard, he prepared, and I felt he always served his colour guy with good questions.
If you go back and look at 2011 I think, Wolf was assigned to do GSL S/A or GSTL alone, either cause Tastosis was in the States doing another tourney, for some reason Khaldor wasn't with him. Wolf called himself LoneWolf or something like that. Broadcasting alone (obv he had producers) is very, very hard. And he did a really good job.
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On June 09 2019 16:19 RatzBarcode wrote:
Someone on the boards yesterday mentioned that noregret does his research and knows his shit. It's true, yesterday Rapid kind of held him back. Rapid talked over him, called things early, he made a good attempt at serving noregret with questions, but Rapid had to be corrected on basic stuff often. Rapid would like, immediately self-contradict himself often, showing maybe some confusion. Probably the worst, he took a lot of oxygen/talking time from someone with more game knowledge and preparation. noregret didn't really bungle any calls, although he did call things early too, which is something a lot of learning casters do.
Noregret I felt added to the game, or paired with a WCS caster or Artosis/Tasteless, would make a pretty solid cast. I think Rapid is an alright dude, he just was put in a tough spot.
I couldnt disagree more. The whole cast was terrible, but mostly because of Noregret. The chemistry just wasnt there. Noregret has great knowledge of the game and I think he can be really funny too, but at least for now he lacks the pace and flow of the real-time casting. He is great with replay casting with Artosis, where he has time to analyze and build up the timeline better. At the same time Artosis lets him have his space, where like you correctly said, Rapid would interrupt too much in livecast. But the problem is, that you dont have that same time in liveshow to make deep analyzis of the game because its often so fast-paced. Rapid tried to keep the flow going, but as he is pretty new to the scene too, it just got messy and bad cast overall. I dont hate either of them. Just needs lot of time and practise, as well as more chemistry with casting partner. And as others have said here, its kinda stupid to compare to Tastosis, where they have been working together as friends for decade. It just cant be copied in a week, month or even a year.
On June 09 2019 16:19 RatzBarcode wrote:
I think of all the low-knowledge play by play drivers, I felt like Kaelaris was the best. He worked hard, he prepared, and I felt he always served his colour guy with good questions.
Kaelaris is very good indeed. Rotterdam also, who is the jack of all trades. Always very good. Nate, Incontrol and Maynarde are next on the list too. Demuslim also has been a very good addition as well.
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Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS
Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 10 2019 00:07 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play.
Not when most of the top players in WCS play Zerg.
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On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS
They pretty much always have one at the offline portions. But for Challenger it's not really economically sensible to fly someone halfway across the world since not even the players get brought to the studio.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On June 10 2019 00:47 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 00:07 KelsierSC wrote:On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play. Not when most of the top players in WCS play Zerg.
Doesn't mean they make good casters.
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On June 10 2019 00:07 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play.
Pretty sure their "ability" to cast a Zerg match-up is partially contingent on what race they play. Casting a mirror match when you only have superficial knowledge of the race means the analytical part of your commentary ends up being mostly reading the production bar and comparing supplies
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On June 10 2019 01:24 Need wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 00:07 KelsierSC wrote:On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play. Pretty sure their "ability" to cast a Zerg match-up is partially contingent on what race they play. Casting a mirror match when you only have superficial knowledge of the race means the analytical part of your commentary ends up being mostly reading the production bar and comparing supplies
Meh sounds like your clutching at straws here. By your definition you want to bring in some high level zerg caster regardless of overall casting ability just to improve the analysis of zvz.
The current crop of casters actually do a great job broadcasting it. My opinion obviously , but I very much doubt in depth zvz discussion is high on the audiences priority list.
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On June 10 2019 01:33 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2019 01:24 Need wrote:On June 10 2019 00:07 KelsierSC wrote:On June 10 2019 00:01 Need wrote:
Can WCS not afford having a caster who plays Zerg? It'd be great to have Demu or Pig more often but I'd be happy with Lowko, Winter.. anyone. Just feels like there's a lot of gatekeeping or exclusivity when it comes to casting WCS Think casters should be picked based on their ability / experience not what race they play. Pretty sure their "ability" to cast a Zerg match-up is partially contingent on what race they play. Casting a mirror match when you only have superficial knowledge of the race means the analytical part of your commentary ends up being mostly reading the production bar and comparing supplies Meh sounds like your clutching at straws here. By your definition you want to bring in some high level zerg caster regardless of overall casting ability just to improve the analysis of zvz. The current crop of casters actually do a great job broadcasting it. My opinion obviously , but I very much doubt in depth zvz discussion is high on the audiences priority list.
It's any zerg matchup, not just ZvZ. That was just an extreme example hoping you may be able to understand the point, but clearly you don't if you think "my definition" is bringing any high level zerg regardless of casting experience.
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Nate and Rotti work for me because they got so many reps working together through all those early WCS casts. Would love to see more of that
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On June 06 2019 07:50 jahnesta wrote:Learn french and watch O'gaming
O'gaming casters are the worst to me :
- no analysis at all
- only bad jokes
- crazy ego issues
- wrong reading/missing so much stuff every single game
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Look who is casting WCS! Good ol Nate and Rotti
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On June 06 2019 06:49 11cc wrote:
I disagree wholeheartedly. I just hate to listen to casters who are really good at filling time with their stories but don't seem to give a shit about SC2, and even during important moments in games would rather talk about unrelated stuff. WCS casting is way better than GSL.
Ignoring the game to tell a story would be the exact opposite of what i'm suggesting the casters should always be on top of what is going on. Simply put the back and forth between casters needs to be better overall. And placing them in duo's would be the most effective way to do that.
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On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone.
Casting isn't something you just pick up and do, it's tough, (not speaking from experience) but other people need practice. AND they need practice with a partner they will be actually casting with, this is one of the reasons i'm really happy that artosis and noregret are doing the indepth show. I'm really hoping that this series improves their chemistry when they cast GSL together next time.
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On June 12 2019 00:55 MooCow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone. Casting isn't something you just pick up and do, it's tough, (not speaking from experience) but other people need practice. AND they need practice with a partner they will be actually casting with, this is one of the reasons i'm really happy that artosis and noregret are doing the indepth show. I'm really hoping that this series improves their chemistry when they cast GSL together next time.
This is so true. I have done a fair bit of casting for events for my clan and teamleagues. While of course I am no where near of the level of the top guys, it does add a little bit of perspective. For example, if you are shoehorned into casting with someone you have never cast with before, it can be SUPER awkward. It takes lots of time and practice to find out what the role of each person is going to be, and to just figure out each others tempo in general so you dont talk over each other. Casting is a skill, but CO-casting is another very different skill that I think people can often overlook. Tasteless for example, is not the very best caster (with many others having more game knowledge) but he is a fantastic co-caster with the ability to play off of artosis and even others at times very very well.
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Northern Ireland25077 Posts
On June 12 2019 03:16 tjtombo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2019 00:55 MooCow1 wrote:On June 09 2019 10:16 capacityex wrote:
the quality of tasteless' casting has varied with his interest level, but did you listen to rapid and noregret last night? noregret is wise but monotone, rapid is a drunk donkey. Makes you realize how great tastosis are. we really are gonna miss them when they're gone. Casting isn't something you just pick up and do, it's tough, (not speaking from experience) but other people need practice. AND they need practice with a partner they will be actually casting with, this is one of the reasons i'm really happy that artosis and noregret are doing the indepth show. I'm really hoping that this series improves their chemistry when they cast GSL together next time. This is so true. I have done a fair bit of casting for events for my clan and teamleagues. While of course I am no where near of the level of the top guys, it does add a little bit of perspective. For example, if you are shoehorned into casting with someone you have never cast with before, it can be SUPER awkward. It takes lots of time and practice to find out what the role of each person is going to be, and to just figure out each others tempo in general so you dont talk over each other. Casting is a skill, but CO-casting is another very different skill that I think people can often overlook. Tasteless for example, is not the very best caster (with many others having more game knowledge) but he is a fantastic co-caster with the ability to play off of artosis and even others at times very very well.
Most people have at least played Starcraft, very few have actually casted to any kind of audience, even small.
Why caster bashing annoys me because as someone who has done it quite a lot at a totally amateur local LANs, it is difficult to do well.
Reminds me of refereeing sports, few people notice when they’re doing a good job (or at least comment that they are), which is most of the time, but make a mistake and hell hath no fury like sports fans.
Tempo and chemistry is the hardest thing to do IMO, by far. You can’t do interesting analysis super quickly, you need a couple of sentences to make an interesting point. My humour can be quite long-winded sometimes, you need to keep the flow, and that means giving the analysis dude space to finish his points. The analysis guy talking over a play by play hype moment is bad as well, but those spaces are more obvious just watching the game.
It’s not super hard to develop but it definitely takes time, if I’m casting with my long time IRL friend he gets cues just from how I’m speaking that he works off and lets me finish. Likewise I’m not much of a hype guy so I leave him to do that part.
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EPT
