On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3.
It was extremely impressive, yes, the single most impressive teamleague achievement made by anyone, even.
But it was only once, and it was online. It simply doesn't compare to literally years of teamleague titles and all-kills.
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On July 24 2017 00:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2017 21:48 Fango wrote:On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do. Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players I don't know but for the most wins award by Proleague allkill wins aren't included either.
It's unfair for good players on bad teams (e.g Jin Air always gets to playoffs so Maru has a chance to get an all-kill / 4 points at once. Samsung rarely does, yet RorO, Dear, etc, were pretty good teamleague players, just pretty much never got to play in all-kill)
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On July 24 2017 03:55 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2017 00:35 Charoisaur wrote:On July 23 2017 21:48 Fango wrote:On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do. Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players I don't know but for the most wins award by Proleague allkill wins aren't included either. It's unfair for good players on bad teams (e.g Jin Air always gets to playoffs so Maru has a chance to get an all-kill / 4 points at once. Samsung rarely does, yet RorO, Dear, etc, were pretty good teamleague players, just pretty much never got to play in all-kill)
True. But when talking about % winrates, I think allkill should be included. Maru goes up to 67%, aka number 1, in terms of winrates if you include allkill (I think, I haven't added up every player's results)
Worth noting that it's harder to get points from allkill, as it's normally against better-than-average teams. The playoffs were also the most imortant part of the season for the those that got there. Players that did well in them were the most valuable ones
On July 24 2017 03:37 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3. It was extremely impressive, yes, the single most impressive teamleague achievement made by anyone, even.
Taeja went 23-3 in IPL TAC, one win more than Maru's 22-4 in SPL 2016.
That being said, I still feel like Maru's acheivement is more impressive. He crushed ALL of the players that were doing great in the 2016 starleagues, that weren't ByuN or on Jin Air. That included Stats, TY, Inno, Solar, Dear, Dark, Zest, and Classic. Going 85% against the best sc2 korea had to offer, all of which were preparing specifically against him, is unmatched imo
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EPT
