|
Unofficial Dreamhack Stockholm Power Rank by Yorkie
So I decided to sit down and rank who I believe are the best players going into the upcoming Dreamhack Stockholm event. This might become a regular thing that I do heading into big and important weekend tournaments and depending on the reception I'll probably do one of these for Kespa Cup 3 which will feature a lot more research and analysis (not Blizzcon because the TL writers already cover that from every angle much better than I could). This one is relatively off the cuff and very informal. It's mostly to get my thoughts out there and get a discussion going.
A few points about my criteria. I ranked the players based on a combination of recent results, likelihood to win this tournament, and the "eye test." I know a lot of you don't like that last one but I like to at least consider how skilled players are at their peak not simply what placings they have achieved. That said it is the least important of the three. Without further ado here's my top twenty players heading into Dreamhack Stockholm:
The Favorites
1.  sOs - "So sOs you just reverse all-killed KT, murdering TY and his family in back to back events. What's next for you?" "I guess I'm gonna go collect some more free money." sOs is smart. sOs is cheesy. sOs is scary. While at first heralded as a king of preparation, then as the ruler of 100k tournaments, now he has shown himself to be just as terrifying in shorter events like Dreamhack where strategies and game plans are made on the fly. After Zest's fortuitous withdrawal from MSI sOs made the most of his opportunity, going 11-1 in games as he cruised to the title. Although he fell out of Code S and S2SL in the ro16 you can't ignore his opponents. He lost in close sets to Life, Innovation, herO, and Classic, all of whom will be at Blizzcon but none of whom will be in Stockholm this weekend. Factor in his performance in Proleague against KT and he's my pick to win the event.
2. Rain - For the next ten days Rain is the reigning GSL champion, and I would be remiss to not include him as a favorite here. If I had to pick a word to describe Rain's style it would be solid and amazingly he's only gotten better as this year has gone on. Given that his GSL victory obviously has more pedigree than sOs's win at MSI he would be number one if not for a few recent red flags. He was outclassed by Parting in a 3-0 sweep at Dreamhack France, a feat I could easily see sOs repeating here. Secondly he has been solidly beaten by Snute and Losira in recent tournaments, and with a field stacked with zergs that could be worrying. Lastly he failed to make it to the bracket stage in GSL season 3 falling to Rogue and Bbyong who, while certainly no pushovers, are expected to be the underdogs against a player like Rain. Despite this, he's solidly cemented himself as a favorite here with a strong ro4 in S2SL falling in 7 games to the eventual champion and WCS point leader herO. If he avoids sOs he can easily win, and is a cut above most of the players in attendance.
3.  Dark - The word potential comes to mind a lot when I looked at Dark in years past. For a while I had him pegged as a player who would become a top 5 zerg. Finally that has come to fruition in 2015 but hasn't overcome the final hurdle
This is a prediction made by Darkhorse last December and at the time I agreed with him wholeheartedly. Since then Dark and Dream have collectively made four finals and lost them all, but while Dream looks ready to take the next step towards becoming a powerhouse, Dark is still on shaky ground. For one Dream made two S2SL finals, whereas Dark hasn't made the bracket stage of GSL or S2SL this year at all, his finals appearances coming in Kespa cups. On the plus side for him, Kespa cups are a lot more like Dreamhack than those other tournaments anyway and with his high skill ceiling and excellent macro and micro mechanics I could see him taking the title provided he only has to beat one of the two players I have ranked above him. Last but not least I need to mention his WCS standing. Currently Dark is ranked 17th, just shy of Blizzcon, and ranks 16 and 15 (Fantasy and sOs respectively) will be present this weekend. While I don't see him passing sOs he could very easily pass Fantasy if he plays to his skill level, and the motivation and pressure of earning a seed at Blizzcon will likely impact him for better or worse this weekend.
The Contenders
There's a pretty significant drop off in tournament-winning potential here, but these players have a decent shot if they can pull of one upset. This is also where the list gets murkier and the distance between players gets closer and closer. Reasonable minds can debate moving these players around a lot depending on your perception, and I look forward to your reasonable and well thought out disagreements.
4.  FanTaSy - This pick will likely be heavily disputed for good reason. It genuinely feels weird ranking Fantasy so highly here. He's not an elite terran player on a global level and he hasn't had any amazingly impressive results this year. So why is he here? While Fantasy does poorly on the eye test he has shown a consistency that most of the players below him have not. Despite moving out of a Korean team house he has made every season of Code S and shown that can compete with the best by beating some big names i.e Innovation at IEM Gamescom before falling out 3-2 to soO in the semis. Despite going out in third in his ro32 Code S group he was facing the eventual semifinalists Dear and Byul. Not to mention Fantasy has shown relatively strong mech play in the past which will serve him extremely well in the current meta in a field filled with zerg players. I think Fantasy is on an uptick right now, and he'll need to show it this weekend with Dark breathing down his neck for a Blizzcon spot.
5. Curious - Amazingly for someone with such a long career, but this may be Curious's best year of Starcraft. He made the semifinals of Code S season 2 beating sOs, Byul, herO and Rogue along the way and won Dreamhack Valencia which featured a lot of the players on this list. The only reason he isn't in Blizzcon contention is because he hasn't been able to get into S2SL once all year being eliminated in qualifiers by DRG, Hyun, and trap respectively. Curious is solid enough to make a run for the title and the tendency for people to sleep on skills may help him along the way.
6. Solar - After a tremendous second half of 2014 (2 GSL ro8s, 2nd at IEM Shenzhen, and titles at Dreamhack and MSI back to back) Solar has been quiet this year. Or rather he wishes he had been quiet, but his lack of results has actually been extremely well noticed and ridiculed. He hasn't done well in Proleague, losing his role as Samsung's ace to Dear, and aside from season 1 has not made it to the bracket stage of a Korean individual league. Despite all this Solar is still very dangerous. He made the finals of MSI by taking Parting, a nemesis of his, and looked solid in the most recent season of Code S out ZvZing Dark before being ousted by Byul and Zest. Anything less than a top 8 or greater than a top 4 finish for Solar would surprise me, but seeing him beat one of the players ranked above him wouldn't.
7. Leenock - Leenock is obviously not the player he used to be and based off his previous two Dreamhack runs I almost placed him outside the top ten. To be fair regarding the Dreamhack ro32 exits those were bo3 losses to Gumiho and HerO respectively. So long as he tops his group he likely won't be tested in the same way until the ro16 at least. What is actually worrying for Leenock is that he's currently teamless. While he is almost certainly simply practicing in the SBENU house, being technically teamless does put a lot of pressure on a player without the security of most competitors. Even still Leenock is one of the best players to ever do it and in a field filled with middling to good (by elite Korean standards) zerg players he could shine.
8. ForGG - Mech.
Just kidding. ForGG is coming off his best WCS season yet and is a legitimate threat despite being the first player on this list not competing in Korea. As a former Dreamhack champion he has what it takes to win big weekend events even against what most would consider superior players. jokes aside, his skill as a mech player cannot be ignored in a tournament featuring so many Korean zergs, and even though his aggressive style can get him into trouble it will likely catch many Koreans off guard.
9. HyuN - The WCS America stalwart and weekend warrior of 2014 returned to Korea this year and predictably didn't find too much success. His Blizzcon hopes are almost certainly nonexistent barring a championship run and Fantasy and Dark falling flat (although I'll leave the actual projections to Die4ever). Even still I think as a player he is generally underrated and is especially good in a Dreamhack environment. He's made the semifinals of his previous two Dreamhack events, each with talent pools as deep as this one.
The Question Marks
Okay player write ups are going to get shorter now because I'm putting way more effort into this than I planned to and this is getting lengthy. Essentially these players could finish anywhere from the ro32 to the quarterfinals, possibly the semifinals with a great bracket, but aren't real championship contenders in my eyes.
10. Jaedong - The Tyrant Has had a Quiet year. After taking season 1 off he hasn't gotten the results in WCS many expected of him in WCS. In RecenT Weekend tournaments he Has proven himself to be a legitimate competitor and is showing Signs of a return to form. JvZ was a force to be reckoned with in the past and might heLp him a lot Here.
11. TRUE - The second in a trio of zergs I could swap around interchangeably, TRUE Has made the semifinals and finals of his previous two Dreamhack events and done literally nothing else all year. I expect some Wild games and one upset.
12. Sacsri - Sacsri is a former Dreamhack champion but hasn't done much in 2015 aside from making Code S in season 2. He did place second at Homestory Cup, beating PartinG and Jaedong before losing to Rain. I don't expect him to pull any big upsets, but don't see him losing to inferior players either.
13. HerO - With such a storied career and huge past success at Dreamhack it's tough for me to rank HerO this low but I have to. He simply hasn't shown enough games this year. he made Code S in season 2 and beat two players above him on this list (Leenock and Sacsri) before losing to TRUE in the ro8 of Dreamhack Valencia. He's a strong contender for the quarter or even semifinals, but he's also prone to upsets and his form is hard to judge.
14. Reality - Reality nails the eye test with me. He's played some extremely sick games over his career and I think he is generally underrated. That doesn't really matter though when you have literally no individual results to speak of this year. He's 6-5 in Proleague on one of it's worst teams and has talent, but I can't in good conscience rank him higher without proving himself.
15. Hurricane - Hurricane is an enigma. He'll qualify for S2SL one day then look absolutely silly in proleague the next. He's honestly quite good but he has a strong potential to be upset by the 5 players ranked below him and making the quarterfinals or more would be a stretch.
The Best of the Rest
16. Snute - Snute had some really impressive games at IEM Shenzhen against Classic and Rain, who at the time were the reigning GSL and SSL champions respectively. These two series showed us the peak of what he is capable of, but he has struggled outside of Korea lately, failing to make the bracket stage of WCS and being knocked out relatively early in the previous Dreamhack and Homestory Cup. He can take a series off almost everyone here, but I don't see him stringing together two or three victories against top 15 players.
17. PtitDrogo - Carrying the French flag in Lilbow's place, I expect blink stalkers to take one series upset over one of the zergs I have ranked above him. Despite his impressive ASUS 2nd place finish, I don't give him much of a chance of making the quarterfinals.
18. MaNa - MaNa had an awesome run at WCS season 3, but everything I've seen lately of him makes me think he's going to get 2-0d by the first Top 15 player he runs into, particularly a zerg since his PvZ looked shaky at best in WCS.
19. Armani - He's never done much in individual leagues in his career, but apparently he was scary enough for KT to keep Zest home for proleague so maybe he can upset someone? Also dude change your ID back to BurNing. You need to reinvent yourself and that's a good first step.
20. viOLet - viOLet limped through this year of WCS and he knows it. A big performance Here could prove he still Has something left in the tank, but I don't see it happening.
Thanks for reading if you read this far. Sorry it's not very pretty/lacks pictures I'm gonna do better next time I promise. If you disagree with something on the list know that you may be right and I may be crazy but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for. Cheers!
Also this is NOT affiliated with TL or the TL writers in any way I'm just a dog who thinks I know a decent amount about SC2 and wanted to write something. Happy to accept feedback on rankings or my writing.
|
Got it done 4 hours before the event starts hype!
|
Good ranking.
Mostly agree, except ForGG seems too high and HyuN should probably be up a place or two.
I think Dark's insane mechanics will see him through nicely in this event...up until he meets one of the stronger protoss players here. Then he gets murdered.
Dark vs sOs finals since I think Dark will get some bracket luck in terms of ZvP.
|
United States97276 Posts
|
good work with the rankings i dont agree with 70% of the ranks but glad your sharing your opinion 
|
On September 24 2015 14:30 A_Scarecrow wrote:good work with the rankings i dont agree with 70% of the ranks but glad your sharing your opinion
Well 30% is good in baseball at least! Having 14 players you would move isn't as bad as it sounds if you'd only move them a little. Is there anyone you think is very underrated or overrated?
|
He was outclassed by Parting in a 3-0 sweep at Dremhack France,
Dreamhack*
|
I expect a sOs vs Rain/Dark final, can't see anything else although I do think that Rain and Dark can still beat sOs, so perhaps a Dark vs Rain final is still possible
|
aNa had an Awesome run at WCS season 3, but everything I've seen lately of him makes me think he's going to get 2-0d by the First Top 15 player he runs into.
With Mana extremely handily 3-1'ing ForGG, I'm quite sure ForGG is the odd one out
|
On September 24 2015 15:56 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +aNa had an Awesome run at WCS season 3, but everything I've seen lately of him makes me think he's going to get 2-0d by the First Top 15 player he runs into. With Mana extremely handily 3-1'ing ForGG, I'm quite sure ForGG is the odd one out
Really hope mana can put up a good result but it won't be so easy...
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC
|
United States97276 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC
he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy
I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me.
|
On September 24 2015 15:50 MiniFotToss wrote:Dreamhack*
You sure about that?
+ Show Spoiler +
elfi - sOs finals inc!
|
On September 24 2015 15:50 MiniFotToss wrote:Dreamhack*
Haha thanks. I don't have any editors 
|
I agree with the most of this, although I would perhaps put Curious a bit higher? Maybe sOs a step lower? Idk, your ranking is a good compromise of my confused feelings.
edit: And yeah, I would put Dark above sOs and rain in skill but he's on a vacation and sOs just doesn't care about how good his opponents mechanics are, so
|
On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC
Rain beat Snute 2-0 too....
also, HerO beat sOs, INnoVation, DRG, Yoda and Life (also a GSL champion) in Proleague
|
On September 24 2015 16:19 neptunusfisk wrote:I agree with the most of this, although I would perhaps put Curious a bit higher? Maybe sOs a step lower? Idk, your ranking is a good compromise of my confused feelings. edit: And yeah, I would put Dark above sOs and rain in skill but he's on a vacation and sOs just doesn't care about how good his opponents mechanics are, so
Dark is not better skill-wise than Rain.... They are more-or-less the same
|
On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me.
I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda.
and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months.
|
On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months.
Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either.....
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:26 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months. Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either.....
He played and beat Hydra and Lilbow 2-3 days ago.
|
On September 24 2015 16:30 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:26 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months. Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either..... He played and beat Hydra and Lilbow 2-3 days ago.
.... in what tournament?
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:31 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:30 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:26 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months. Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either..... He played and beat Hydra and Lilbow 2-3 days ago. .... in what tournament?
go4sc2
|
On September 24 2015 16:32 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:31 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:30 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:26 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months. Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either..... He played and beat Hydra and Lilbow 2-3 days ago. .... in what tournament? go4sc2
Also, He LOST to Hydra 3-2.
|
On September 24 2015 16:32 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:32 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:31 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:30 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:26 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months. Snute hasn't played any high-leveled games in 2 months either..... He played and beat Hydra and Lilbow 2-3 days ago. .... in what tournament? go4sc2 Also, He LOST to Hydra 3-2.
he beat him 2-1 in a Ro4 though
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs.
|
On September 24 2015 16:25 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:24 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:10 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:09 Shellshock wrote:On September 24 2015 16:08 stuchiu wrote:
You realize you rated HerO higher than Snute because he beat Leenock and Sacsri, but then you ignore that Snute beat GSL CHAMPION RAIN AND SSL CHAMPION CLASSIC he's a snute hater and a HerO fan boy I guess I can't expect people to rank consistently to their own criteria like me. I didn't rate HerO higher than Snute BECAUSE he beat leenock and Sacsri, I merely mentioned those as notable victories (made more notable because they are both going to be in attendance). You'll also notice that my criteria isn't entirely based on recent results. Also since beating Classic and Rain he has gotten put in the dumpster by TY (not blaming him TY puts a lot of people in the dumpster) and lost to Departure, B4, Petraeus, and Gungfubanda. and HerO hasnt played an official game in 2 months.
Which is precisely why he's so low and why I mention that it's hard to judge his form. I firmly believe that talent wise he is better than Snute, and has a greater chance at stringing together victories over multiple koreans in a row than Snute does. I'm curious. if given control of the list would you simply swap HerO and Snute? Is Snute also better/more likely to win than Hurricane and Reality? I choose to believe that Snute winning 4 games against top protoss players is the exception, not the rule and that HerO is coming into this event as a better player overall.
|
On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs.
The "run" you're talking about for Snute was literally 5 games.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
There is no reason to believe HerO is a better player overall, where is the evidence? There is no evidence.
|
On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs.
What about the players he lost to, hmm??? Would Hero lose to Gunfu or Petraeus?
|
|
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:34 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. The "run" you're talking about for Snute was literally 5 games.
HerO's "good" runs is literally 3 series, one against Leenock, Sacsri and Terminator.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
All I'm doing is using your arguments against you. That's it.
|
On September 24 2015 16:36 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:34 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. The "run" you're talking about for Snute was literally 5 games. HerO's "good" runs is literally 3 series, one against Leenock, Sacsri and Terminator.
His games in Proleague man!!!!!!! At least he beat INnoVation, Snute got rekt by INnoVation.....
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:35 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. What about the players he lost to, hmm??? Would Hero lose to Gunfu or Petraeus?
I think Petreaus is better than Mlord and HerO lost to Mlord.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:37 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:36 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:34 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. The "run" you're talking about for Snute was literally 5 games. HerO's "good" runs is literally 3 series, one against Leenock, Sacsri and Terminator. His games in Proleague man!!!!!!! At least he beat INnoVation, Snute got rekt by INnoVation.....
HerO got beat by TRUE, Snute beat TRUE, I'm using your logic now too.
|
On September 24 2015 16:39 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:37 MiniFotToss wrote:On September 24 2015 16:36 stuchiu wrote:On September 24 2015 16:34 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. The "run" you're talking about for Snute was literally 5 games. HerO's "good" runs is literally 3 series, one against Leenock, Sacsri and Terminator. His games in Proleague man!!!!!!! At least he beat INnoVation, Snute got rekt by INnoVation..... HerO got beat by TRUE, Snute beat TRUE, I'm using your logic now too.
True beat Snute 2-1 or 2-0 too..... but did Snute beat INnovation this year?
|
United States97276 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:35 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:33 stuchiu wrote:
HerO and Snute have had similar 2015 years in terms of results.
The difference? Snute beat higher level players in his runs. What about the players he lost to, hmm??? Would Hero lose to Gunfu or Petraeus?
woudnt surprise me. I'd favor Petraeus and Gungfu has decent pvp
|
On September 24 2015 16:35 stuchiu wrote:
There is no reason to believe HerO is a better player overall, where is the evidence? There is no evidence.
Out of the past 5 tournaments Snute played in he was:
3-0d by Innovation (okay no big deal he was invited to SSL and got bopped as expected)
3-0d by TY (okay no big deal he beat Classic and Rain that's awesome)
Knocked out in the ro16 of WCS by Petraeus and Gungfu
Knocked out in ro16 by Rain and Huk in HSC
Knocked out in the ro16 of DH France by Harstem
I'm sorry that I have to sound like I'm shitting on Snute but I have to make my point.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:41 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:35 stuchiu wrote:
There is no reason to believe HerO is a better player overall, where is the evidence? There is no evidence. Out of the past 5 tournaments Snute played in he was: 3-0d by Innovation (okay no big deal he was invited to SSL and got bopped as expected) 3-0d by TY (okay no big deal he beat Classic and Rain that's awesome) Knocked out in the ro16 of WCS by Petraeus and Gungfu Knocked out in ro16 by Rain and Huk in HSC Knocked out in the ro16 of DH France by Harstem I'm sorry that I have to sound like I'm shitting on Snute but I have to make my point.
I'm talking about HerO, not Snute, there is 0 proof hes good right now. He hasnt played in 2 months.
|
On September 24 2015 16:37 stuchiu wrote:
All I'm doing is using your arguments against you. That's it.
Alright look who got all high and mighty . Still didn't answer my previous questions but that's okay they don't suit your argument. You seem awfully fixated on Snute vs HerO. Not to mention I didn't expect the most flame-y posts to be coming from someone like you
|
On September 24 2015 16:42 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:37 stuchiu wrote:
All I'm doing is using your arguments against you. That's it. Alright look who got all high and mighty . Still didn't answer my previous questions but that's okay they don't suit your argument. You seem awfully fixated on Snute vs HerO. Not to mention I didn't expect the most flame-y posts to be coming from someone like you
And neither of them will win this tournament anyways.....
It's gonna be out of Dark, Rain or sOs (maybe, just maybe, Fantasy)
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 24 2015 16:42 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:37 stuchiu wrote:
All I'm doing is using your arguments against you. That's it. Alright look who got all high and mighty . Still didn't answer my previous questions but that's okay they don't suit your argument. You seem awfully fixated on Snute vs HerO. Not to mention I didn't expect the most flame-y posts to be coming from someone like you
What question? I'm fixated on it because the criteria is the most blatantly disregarded between Snute and HerO.
|
On September 24 2015 16:42 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:41 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:35 stuchiu wrote:
There is no reason to believe HerO is a better player overall, where is the evidence? There is no evidence. Out of the past 5 tournaments Snute played in he was: 3-0d by Innovation (okay no big deal he was invited to SSL and got bopped as expected) 3-0d by TY (okay no big deal he beat Classic and Rain that's awesome) Knocked out in the ro16 of WCS by Petraeus and Gungfu Knocked out in ro16 by Rain and Huk in HSC Knocked out in the ro16 of DH France by Harstem I'm sorry that I have to sound like I'm shitting on Snute but I have to make my point. I'm talking about HerO, not Snute, there is 0 proof hes good right now. He hasnt played in 2 months.
Well gosh better rate like 50 players ahead of him then since they've played more recently.
1.) He's still practicing consistently in the MVP house, so saying "he hasn't played in two months" is wrong. I know what you meant, but just because he hasn't been to a tournament doesn't mean his skill has fallen off a cliff. Which brings me to
2.) We can still look at his form from before a few months ago to determine whether or not he's a good player. Mechanics can fade quickly if not practiced (but he is practicing) but game sense and game knowledge stay longer
|
On September 24 2015 16:45 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 16:42 Yorkie wrote:On September 24 2015 16:37 stuchiu wrote:
All I'm doing is using your arguments against you. That's it. Alright look who got all high and mighty . Still didn't answer my previous questions but that's okay they don't suit your argument. You seem awfully fixated on Snute vs HerO. Not to mention I didn't expect the most flame-y posts to be coming from someone like you What question? I'm fixated on it because the criteria is the most blatantly disregarded between Snute and HerO.
The first of three parts of my criteria that you personally think should be valued a lot more. Keep in mind that I conceptualized, outlined, and wrote this in the span of two hours because there was no official preview made for an event I thought deserved some discussion. I didn't have fellow writers or editors to bounce ideas off of. That said I do honestly believe that HerO comes into this event as the better player with a higher chance to go far and potentially win, even if the chance at winning is minuscule at best for both
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
If you mean recent results, HerO hasnt played an official match in 2 months. Snute played and went even or beat arguably the 2 best players in WCS 2 days ago.
The likelihood of either playing winning is the same. Their records this year arent definitive, I dont care about a players peak that was an year ago unless they have proved they can pull it out again and again randomly (i.e. Bomber, MMA, Life, MC, Polt).
I think both HerO/Snute have the exact same chance, but for some reason HerO is above Snute and his notable wins against Leenock/sacsri and noted, but Snute's win against Rain/Classic are ignored in the same hand.
|
On September 24 2015 16:57 stuchiu wrote:
If you mean recent results, HerO hasnt played an official match in 2 months. Snute played and went even or beat arguably the 2 best players in WCS 2 days ago.
The likelihood of either playing winning is the same. Their records this year arent definitive, I dont care about a players peak that was an year ago unless they have proved they can pull it out again and again randomly (i.e. Bomber, MMA, Life, MC, Polt).
I think both HerO/Snute have the exact same chance, but for some reason HerO is above Snute and his notable wins against Leenock/sacsri and noted, but Snute's win against Rain/Classic are ignored in the same hand.
You're saying "I" an awful lot. I know you're used to articles and lists being yours, but this one happens to be mine which means we can disagree. Snute's wins aren't ignored. If you'd like I can edit it to say his impressive games were against Classic and Rain. I also have never counted and will never count weekly online cup results and I shouldn't have to explain to you of all people why that is.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Thats fine, good work overall though.
|
Thanks, didn't mean to sound so antagonistic. With more time and research the order would likely have changed at least a little. I just wanted to put something informal out there for people to look at and discuss before the event started or at least (hopefully) before the players on this list get eliminated. I'm also interested in critique's of my writing itself and you'd obviously be someone that would be in position to give it should you like to.
I also edited Snute's blurb to better reflect his important wins at IEM. "If you want to always be right, always be ready to change your mind" and you made some good points.
|
Pretty accurate list imo. In fact much more accurate than lot of "official" power ranks. I would put my money on Rain to win the whole thing. Jaedong should be lower, thats it. Nice job
You should do these on monthly basis
|
|
|
Anyone knows if ForGG is attending Dreamhack?
He is like streaming from his home right now so he appears to not be there.
When I looked up the player list some days ago on Liquipedia he was listed but now he isn't on the list anymore and isn't placed in any group. But you still placed him in your ranking so im not sure if he is playing at Dreamhack or not?
Does anyone know what is up with him?
Already asked on his stream but no one is answering me there.
|
Australia18228 Posts
On September 24 2015 18:24 MrJack1337 wrote:
Anyone knows if ForGG is attending Dreamhack?
He is like streaming from his home right now so he appears to not be there.
When I looked up the player list some days ago on Liquipedia he was listed but now he isn't on the list anymore and isn't placed in any group. But you still placed him in your ranking so im not sure if he is playing at Dreamhack or not?
Does anyone know what is up with him?
Already asked on his stream but no one is answering me there.
He wasn't listed in groups, so most likely not attending
|
Mostly agree with the rankings. Should be a good DH.
|
Not bad. Fantasy was overrated, ForGG and Violet didn't show, and Dark "underperformed" a bit (but losing 2-1 in ZvZ isn't that huge of a red flag). Other than that things went pretty well. 6/8 of the top 8 are from my top 8 players (excluding the aforementioned no-show ForGG). The other two are Reality, who I said I would rank higher just didn't have the results to merit it and Snute who I said could beat anyone but wasn't likely to string victories together and he only played one korean. I give my predictions a solid B
|
ah i didn't see this yesterday, nice list overall!
The next community PR will be coming soon too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://cdn.teamacer.com/media/uploads/2014/09/BxhfzcpIYAAgOJG.jpg)
