• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:12
CET 09:12
KST 17:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains8Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20
StarCraft 2
General
https://www.facebook.com/OptiJoint.Official/ Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1801 users

Greatest Players of All Time: The Finale - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
421 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 Next All
Nick_54
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2230 Posts
June 07 2015 16:06 GMT
#401
The whole list was a great read. Really loved the section on MVP. Thanks for the writeup and contribution. Really brough back some great nostalgia even though I don't follow the scene much today.
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
June 07 2015 17:54 GMT
#402
I feel the same way. I don't follow the scene at all lately, but its great to remember the good old days with nestea and MVP, and also the loveable MKP. Nice memories
SohcranA
Profile Joined November 2010
United States36 Posts
June 07 2015 18:27 GMT
#403
Fun series. No Stephano on the list kind of hurts though. When he hit the scene, no one could touch him, including the Koreans! Except maybe MVP. Maybe...
Rain.100
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany946 Posts
June 07 2015 20:52 GMT
#404
On June 08 2015 03:27 SohcranA wrote:
Fun series. No Stephano on the list kind of hurts though. When he hit the scene, no one could touch him, including the Koreans! Except maybe MVP. Maybe...

lol calm down there
I have to return some videotapes. Maru and MarineLorD <3
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
July 13 2015 12:19 GMT
#405
On June 08 2015 02:54 radscorpion9 wrote:
I feel the same way. I don't follow the scene at all lately, but its great to remember the good old days with nestea and MVP, and also the loveable MKP. Nice memories

This. I stopped playing because all my favorite players quit and the games the play these days seem boring as hell. Gotta love IMMvp.
xxx30
Profile Joined June 2015
Hong Kong2 Posts
July 15 2015 06:51 GMT
#406
I think non-Korean players like TLO, Jinro, Huk, Sen, Jim, Macsed and Idra should be remembered, coz they made us watch the Korean tournaments with some different expectations...

Hope is good shit, isn't it?

Naniwa, maybe too.
All in the game.
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
October 08 2015 07:24 GMT
#407
Any oldschool true fan willing to make BW version of this?
sunbeams are never made like me...
Cam Connor
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada786 Posts
October 08 2015 08:57 GMT
#408
that would be a good read
#memories
post to be
TL+ Member
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
October 08 2015 09:23 GMT
#409
On June 08 2015 05:52 Rain.100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2015 03:27 SohcranA wrote:
Fun series. No Stephano on the list kind of hurts though. When he hit the scene, no one could touch him, including the Koreans! Except maybe MVP. Maybe...

lol calm down there

first year is true, only mvp and nestea was on his level or better. Sadly they didnt meet often. Stephano's 2nd year was a joke (still good enough to be (one of the) best foreigner).
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
Naikonz
Profile Joined October 2014
Romania65 Posts
October 08 2015 11:08 GMT
#410
sOs not on this list is really bullshit. One of the greatest innovators of the protoss race not included among the all-time greats? Pathetic.
WaylanderSC2_
Profile Joined September 2015
24 Posts
October 08 2015 13:12 GMT
#411
Saying MVP is the best player of all time is like saying Johnny Unitas is the best QB of all time..

Johnny played in an exclusively White league that is now almost entirely black.

MVP played in an exclusively eSF league that is now almost entirely KeSPA.

In terms of skill, Innovation is the best player of all time. In terms of accomplishments, I'd still say players like Innovation and Life are ahead of MVP-- most of the players MVP played against in those early GSL days are retired now..
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3482 Posts
October 08 2015 13:21 GMT
#412
In LotV we need showmatches to settle this.
2 Players will play:
Bo3 in WoL
Bo3 in HotS
and then if it's tied, a Bo3 in LotV to decide.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Magnifico
Profile Joined March 2013
1958 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 13:53:24
October 08 2015 13:51 GMT
#413
On October 08 2015 22:12 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:
Saying MVP is the best player of all time is like saying Johnny Unitas is the best QB of all time..

Johnny played in an exclusively White league that is now almost entirely black.

MVP played in an exclusively eSF league that is now almost entirely KeSPA.

In terms of skill, Innovation is the best player of all time. In terms of accomplishments, I'd still say players like Innovation and Life are ahead of MVP-- most of the players MVP played against in those early GSL days are retired now..


That's tricky. Do you know Pele? When he played there were not goalkeeper trainers. How can we judge him the best football/soccer player of all times if he played against shitty goalkeepers?

WaylanderSC2_
Profile Joined September 2015
24 Posts
October 08 2015 14:14 GMT
#414
On October 08 2015 22:51 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2015 22:12 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:
Saying MVP is the best player of all time is like saying Johnny Unitas is the best QB of all time..

Johnny played in an exclusively White league that is now almost entirely black.

MVP played in an exclusively eSF league that is now almost entirely KeSPA.

In terms of skill, Innovation is the best player of all time. In terms of accomplishments, I'd still say players like Innovation and Life are ahead of MVP-- most of the players MVP played against in those early GSL days are retired now..


That's tricky. Do you know Pele? When he played there were not goalkeeper trainers. How can we judge him the best football/soccer player of all times if he played against shitty goalkeepers?



I think it's stupid to compare different eras together.

Babe Ruth played when there were hardly any trainers, no black or Latino players in the league, and weight training was almost non existent.


Saying he is the best player of all time, compared to players like Barry Bonds or Albert Puljos is just stupid. If Babe played in the league now he'd get his ass whooped, same as if MVP in his prime played at the moment.

Imagine if NFL switched to a different league, and then the good NFL players stayed in the NFL and the bad ones joined "GFL." A player pretty good in the NFL(MVP) decided to switch to the GFL, in which he dominates. Eventually, the rest of the NFL players join the GFL, almost immediately replacing all GFL players and forcing MVP to retire.

MVPs results realistically don't mean much when he was playing against such weak competition.
chiasmus
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States134 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 15:01:56
October 08 2015 14:57 GMT
#415
I agree that Mvp falls into this "Babe Ruth vs. Barry Bonds" problem, and it's kind of an impossible issue to resolve.

It comes down to what you think it means to be the greatest of all time. Greatest relative to the people you played against, or greatest relative to everyone who ever played the game?

Neither one feels quite right. It's almost certainly true that Ruth would get destroyed in modern-day baseball, and that Mvp could never have competed with today's elite players. But their accomplishments in their own era are what we can actually observe, whereas the grand tournament of every player in history is just an impossible counterfactual.

I guess the point is, all-time rankings are inherently really subjective and kind of silly.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24238 Posts
October 08 2015 15:28 GMT
#416
I seem to remember a bruised Mvp taking INnoVation to game 5 in WCS season 1 finals. Of course Mvp is probably not as mechanically gifted as INno. But I strongly disagree he was an obviously weaker player... even though INnoVation is a beast.
shabby
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway6402 Posts
October 08 2015 15:31 GMT
#417
Imo you always have to look at it through the eyes of history. Half-life was great, Nokia 3210 was great and MVP was great, even though none of them holds up today. I even doubt that Elvis or The Beatles would ever get a contract today. But in their time, they made an impact, and that impact can kinda be rated, although subjectively. If this were more quantifiable sports, you could statistically see how much better one person was than the rest of the field, but not sure if thats possible in SC2.
Jaedong, Gumibear, Leenock, Byun
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
October 08 2015 15:32 GMT
#418
Maru should be higher. T_T
maru lover forever
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
October 08 2015 15:44 GMT
#419
It's also worth noting that players like Inno had all the work Mvp had already done to build on. If Mvp was starting out in his prime with all the same stuff that they had, he'd likely still have been dominant for as long; they had a massive handicap by the fact that he'd already done so much of the work for them.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
January 06 2016 09:58 GMT
#420
Does Lifes Blizzcon (2015) run count as a miracle run too?
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech123
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 440
Leta 259
ZergMaN 160
-ZergGirl 99
Backho 52
Sharp 51
ToSsGirL 34
Bale 30
NaDa 7
Dota 2
XaKoH 497
NeuroSwarm102
League of Legends
JimRising 612
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K853
m0e_tv648
shoxiejesuss244
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox263
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi247
ceh9136
Happy129
Mew2King45
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4340
Other Games
gamesdonequick573
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1704
• Stunt611
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 48m
WardiTV Team League
3h 48m
Replay Cast
15h 48m
Replay Cast
1d 15h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-11
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.