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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:26 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:25 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:19 Dodgin wrote:On October 09 2013 12:18 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:16 Dodgin wrote:On October 09 2013 12:12 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:09 Dodgin wrote:
you guys are insane if you think winning one season that lasts 7 weeks is the same as winning three seasons that each last 4 or 5 weeks, especially when they're not all in the same little time period and spread out between january, april and august.
If you win one starleague you're not a dominant player, period. we've had champions that win their title and then fall off never to be seen as a competitor to take the tournament again. Not only in sc2 but in BW as well. And then there was Maru who made ro4 in the following season (minimum). So combine those two performances and you get something pretty spectacular. Not saying he's up to Mvp level. (Mvp went out and won MLG and WCG* and especially Blizzcon during this time.) But Maru is pretty high on the SC2 totem pole right now. *Idk if this is right. Winning a season and then making top 4 the next season is definitely impressive, but It's not even comparable to what some other players have done in terms of consistency(like nestea winning two back to back). Even though there are less seasons this year, the seasons themselves are still fairly close together time wise. In fact I don't think It's any different from last year except there was a longer break between the last WoL GSL and the start of the first HotS GSL. That and there won't be a rushed 5th season. Yeah but comparing Nestea going back to back to this is strange to me. I mean, the level of competition and depth of top players has increased a ton since Nestea did that, even with great players headed to other regions. So that's basically why Maru I think is up there. This might be SC2's most difficult point as far as staying at the top. I mean, look how fast Bomber fell. Even then, Soulkey has a better claim to consistency than Maru. 1st in season 1, top 4 in season 1 finals. top 6 in season 2. top 4(minimum) in season 3. Maru wasn't even in premier in season 1. In comparison, Maru: Season 1 challenger league, season 2 1st, season 2 finals 9-12th, season 3 top 4(minimum). He was in Premier in Season 1 and got knocked out in the ro32 by Flash and Soulkey. But Soulkey is probably more consistent and overall has better performances. Maru needs to win here and have a good showing at the season finals to surpass him for me. he got knocked out by soulkey only, losing 2-1 twice
My fault I didn't look at the matchups just who advanced from the groups.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:27 Shellshock wrote:
I nominate Soulkey for super bonjwa
Denied
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds)
if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though
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The finals will probably end up being dear vs soo anyway, making this entire conversation pointless. fucking soo.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:27 Shellshock wrote:
I nominate Soulkey for super bonjwa
Accepted. I nominate Supernova as Doomsday.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds)
No one is calling Maru or soulkey a bonjwa. I think I've stated several times that I don't think they're MVP level.
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Canada8160 Posts
Maru > Dear
Soulkey > soO
Soulkey > Maru 4-2
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:29 Dodgin wrote:
The finals will probably end up being dear vs soo anyway, making this entire conversation pointless. fucking soo.
please.Die.soO
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On October 09 2013 12:31 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) No one is calling Maru or soulkey a bonjwa. I think I've stated several times that I don't think they're MVP level.
op town is
On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though
He's already done it. So you think soulkey's 2013 performance of one 1st place, one top 8 and one top 4 is " far eclipsing " Mvp's 2011 3 GSL 1st places, one 2nd place and two top 4's?
![[image loading]](http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)
I can't tell if this is actually how you feel or you're just saying this to annoy me
I mean just in the august-november period ALONE, Mvp did better than what Soulkey has done. GSL august 1st, GSL October 2nd, GSL November 4th. It's the exact same thing, 3 seasons in a row. He also went to foreign tournaments and won those during this time period while Soulkey didn't leave Korea once.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though
Let's make a pact. Whoever wins blizzcon is officially a bonjwa. I hope it's some random like alive who is totally unfit to be called a bonjwa.
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United States97277 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:33 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though Let's make a pact. Whoever wins blizzcon is officially a bonjwa. I hope it's some random like alive who is totally unfit to be called a bonjwa.
When soO wins GSL, Season 3, and Blizzcon can we?
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
never said maru is a bonjwa, go find that post
i said if soulkey gets 2 more 1st places in this season or the finals or whatever that is far eclipsing mvp's 2011 run
soulkey is playing far better than mvp ever did anyway
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:32 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:31 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) No one is calling Maru or soulkey a bonjwa. I think I've stated several times that I don't think they're MVP level. op town is Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though He's already done it. So you think soulkey's 2013 performance of one 1st place, one top 8 and one top 4 is " far eclipsing " Mvp's 2011 3 GSL 1st places, one 2nd place and two top 4's? I can't tell if this is actually how you feel or you're just saying this to annoy me
In your original post you put 3 wins, 3 ro4s and 3 ro8s then one of each in your follow up post. Op said if he gets those that would be more impressive.
But also he's a prime fan you have to forgive his mental instabilities.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Since you are arguing about 1/3 ~ 2/6, I decided to do some rough/lazy calculations.
Assuming a probability of getting past a certain round of [0.75 - (Round x 0.05)]
(basically Round 1 = Round of 32, gives you a chance of .7 to get out, then .65, so on)
leading to a probability of winning .5 of the time in the finals if you get there
Winning 1/3 tournaments has a probability of 0.15040976
Winning 2/6 has a probability of 0.014032479
I probably made a mistake somewhere but it shouldn't be enough to change the outcome that winning 2/6 is more difficult than 1/3
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:33 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:33 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though Let's make a pact. Whoever wins blizzcon is officially a bonjwa. I hope it's some random like alive who is totally unfit to be called a bonjwa. When soO wins GSL, Season 3, and Blizzcon can we?
I wish I had added a provision in my original proposal that it can't be soO but alas I didn't. Yes I suppose we can.
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Lol you're forgetting opterown is an MKP fan..his definition of dominance is pretty limited compared to most people's
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United States23455 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:36 lichter wrote:
Since you are arguing about 1/3 ~ 2/6, I decided to do some rough/lazy calculations.
Assuming a probability of getting past a certain round of [0.75 - (Round x 0.05)]
(basically Round 1 = Round of 32, gives you a chance of .7 to get out, then .65, so on)
leading to a probability of winning .5 of the time in the finals if you get there
Winning 1/3 tournaments has a probability of 0.050136587
Winning 2/6 has a probability of 0.000935499
I probably made a mistake somewhere but it shouldn't be enough to change the outcome that winning 2/6 is more difficult than 1/3
What is this dark magic
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On October 09 2013 12:35 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:32 Dodgin wrote:On October 09 2013 12:31 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) No one is calling Maru or soulkey a bonjwa. I think I've stated several times that I don't think they're MVP level. op town is On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though He's already done it. So you think soulkey's 2013 performance of one 1st place, one top 8 and one top 4 is " far eclipsing " Mvp's 2011 3 GSL 1st places, one 2nd place and two top 4's? I can't tell if this is actually how you feel or you're just saying this to annoy me In your original post you put 3 wins, 3 ro4s and 3 ro8s then one of each in your follow up post. Op said if he gets those that would be more impressive. But also he's a prime fan you have to forgive his mental instabilities.
The example just x3's each of his achievements because the terrible assumption is that if there are 3 GSL's in one time period and 9 GSL's in another time period, the performance in each of those 3 GSL's is equal to performing the same feat in the other time period. It's meant to show how ridiculous it is. It's not like It's literally been 12 months and there have only been 3 starleagues, the time period in question is from April to October. The WCS didn't span the entire year.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On October 09 2013 12:37 Whatson wrote:
Lol you're forgetting opterown is an MKP fan..his definition of dominance is pretty limited compared to most people's
and you're an idiot who bashes players he doesn't like. what difference does that or my fandom make?
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On October 09 2013 12:32 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:31 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) No one is calling Maru or soulkey a bonjwa. I think I've stated several times that I don't think they're MVP level. op town is Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 12:29 opterown wrote:On October 09 2013 12:26 Dodgin wrote:
I mean if Maru winning one season this year equals winning 3 out of 9 seasons in 2011, I don't even wanna know what kind of super-bonjwa that makes soulkey. 3 1st place finishers, 3 top 8's and 3 top 4's in one year? Super bonjwa.
(see how stupid this sounds) if soulkey does indeed get that, then i consider that far eclipsing mvp's 2011 KR performance. of course mvp had more international stuff though He's already done it. So you think soulkey's 2013 performance of one 1st place, one top 8 and one top 4 is " far eclipsing " Mvp's 2011 3 GSL 1st places, one 2nd place and two top 4's? + Show Spoiler +I can't tell if this is actually how you feel or you're just saying this to annoy me I mean just in the august-november period ALONE, Mvp did better than what Soulkey has done. GSL august 1st, GSL October 2nd, GSL November 4th. It's the exact same thing, 3 seasons in a row.
Whether or not Soulkey's achievements come close to eclipsing Mvp's of 2011, I still don't believe the players will be comparable. When Mvp was winning things in 2011 he looked unbeatable. The only other players at the time, prior to late 2011, who were really winning a lot still looked inferior to him. As for Soulkey, due to the higher saturation of tournaments, he's one of what, 9 so far different Koreans to win a WCS event? Not to mention the player who looked actually dominant during this period, Innovation, isn't even really being mentioned in this conversation.
In a year's time, we'll look at the last three years of SC2 and the player that will stand out the most as the most dominant will likely be Mvp, not just for his dominance in 2011, but for his continuity in being able to win shit in 2012 and 2013 too. The term "bonjwa" isn't one that can really be used in SC2, anyway.
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EPT
