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WCS KR - Up/Down Matches Group F Results - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
50 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
tl2212
Profile Joined April 2013
Belize731 Posts
August 16 2013 19:20 GMT
#41
awesome lineup, and now it's actually ok to root for zerg because not everyone thinks they are OP and all. lol

True and soO are gonna knock out some favorites for sure ^_^ GL all
economy over everything
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 16 2013 19:22 GMT
#42
On August 17 2013 04:18 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2013 04:14 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 17 2013 03:55 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
On August 16 2013 08:55 painkilla wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

esf = non-kespa, the correct definition.


By your logic, Naniwa, Stephano, Huk, are all eSF players.

That's called anti-kespa mentality, just call all of them as non-kespa players, and call your self as anti-kespa fan. This has absolutely nothing to do with eSF.


You're technically right, but the eSF = non-Kespa sentiment makes sense in context of how eSF vs. Kespa first started: Kespa fanboys basically proclaiming how the BW players switching over would be better than everyone else. Everyone seems to be so caught up in eSF vs. Kespa that they've forgotten how this all even started, which is unfortunate because instead of people seeing the big picture, we get caught up in technicalities like "Oh Polt/Jjakji/etc. aren't eSF anymore" or debate on what players like Parting/Puzzle/CoCa/Jaedong really count as. Just kind of shows you how dumb the whole thing is, when people are arguing over a rivalry that doesn't even accurately reflect the origins of said rivalry.



Exactly, from the origin, it is basically old BW players vs original SC2 players.

Also just like many TL "elites" pointed before in lots of LR thread, there are never any eSF fans exist anyway. Then why bother with the eSF term, just call non-kespa vs kespa, that will be more intense and valid. Because there are certainly a lot of KeSPA fans exist. Just drop the eSF term in this rivalry argument from now on.


Sure, I'd be completely fine with turning it into non-Kespa vs. Kespa because that would be more accurate. I refer to it as eSF vs. Kespa because whenever I join a conversation regarding the subject, people are calling it that so I just go along with it instead of derailing the conversation on semantics.
Charlie.Sheen
Profile Joined March 2013
662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-16 19:24:26
August 16 2013 19:24 GMT
#43
On August 17 2013 04:22 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2013 04:18 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
On August 17 2013 04:14 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 17 2013 03:55 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
On August 16 2013 08:55 painkilla wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

esf = non-kespa, the correct definition.


By your logic, Naniwa, Stephano, Huk, are all eSF players.

That's called anti-kespa mentality, just call all of them as non-kespa players, and call your self as anti-kespa fan. This has absolutely nothing to do with eSF.


You're technically right, but the eSF = non-Kespa sentiment makes sense in context of how eSF vs. Kespa first started: Kespa fanboys basically proclaiming how the BW players switching over would be better than everyone else. Everyone seems to be so caught up in eSF vs. Kespa that they've forgotten how this all even started, which is unfortunate because instead of people seeing the big picture, we get caught up in technicalities like "Oh Polt/Jjakji/etc. aren't eSF anymore" or debate on what players like Parting/Puzzle/CoCa/Jaedong really count as. Just kind of shows you how dumb the whole thing is, when people are arguing over a rivalry that doesn't even accurately reflect the origins of said rivalry.



Exactly, from the origin, it is basically old BW players vs original SC2 players.

Also just like many TL "elites" pointed before in lots of LR thread, there are never any eSF fans exist anyway. Then why bother with the eSF term, just call non-kespa vs kespa, that will be more intense and valid. Because there are certainly a lot of KeSPA fans exist. Just drop the eSF term in this rivalry argument from now on.


Sure, I'd be completely fine with turning it into non-Kespa vs. Kespa because that would be more accurate. I refer to it as eSF vs. Kespa because whenever I join a conversation regarding the subject, people are calling it that so I just go along with it instead of derailing the conversation on semantics.


Sure, but if you call it eSF vs Kespa, then make it right by excluding ex-esf players, otherwise, that's pretty silly.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 16 2013 19:26 GMT
#44
On August 17 2013 04:24 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2013 04:22 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 17 2013 04:18 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
On August 17 2013 04:14 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 17 2013 03:55 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
On August 16 2013 08:55 painkilla wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

esf = non-kespa, the correct definition.


By your logic, Naniwa, Stephano, Huk, are all eSF players.

That's called anti-kespa mentality, just call all of them as non-kespa players, and call your self as anti-kespa fan. This has absolutely nothing to do with eSF.


You're technically right, but the eSF = non-Kespa sentiment makes sense in context of how eSF vs. Kespa first started: Kespa fanboys basically proclaiming how the BW players switching over would be better than everyone else. Everyone seems to be so caught up in eSF vs. Kespa that they've forgotten how this all even started, which is unfortunate because instead of people seeing the big picture, we get caught up in technicalities like "Oh Polt/Jjakji/etc. aren't eSF anymore" or debate on what players like Parting/Puzzle/CoCa/Jaedong really count as. Just kind of shows you how dumb the whole thing is, when people are arguing over a rivalry that doesn't even accurately reflect the origins of said rivalry.



Exactly, from the origin, it is basically old BW players vs original SC2 players.

Also just like many TL "elites" pointed before in lots of LR thread, there are never any eSF fans exist anyway. Then why bother with the eSF term, just call non-kespa vs kespa, that will be more intense and valid. Because there are certainly a lot of KeSPA fans exist. Just drop the eSF term in this rivalry argument from now on.


Sure, I'd be completely fine with turning it into non-Kespa vs. Kespa because that would be more accurate. I refer to it as eSF vs. Kespa because whenever I join a conversation regarding the subject, people are calling it that so I just go along with it instead of derailing the conversation on semantics.


Sure, but if you call it eSF vs Kespa, then make it right by excluding ex-esf players, otherwise, that's pretty silly.


Exactly, semantics.
arvinds94
Profile Joined April 2012
United States40 Posts
August 16 2013 19:27 GMT
#45
anyone else notice how sleep is in code s now!! holy shit fuck yea go sleep
viOlet
Weavel
Profile Joined January 2010
Finland9224 Posts
August 16 2013 19:30 GMT
#46
DRG jjakji and Killer(swagger) good to see old names back in code-S.
Life/Seed//Mvp/NaNiwa fighting! ZeNEX forever!
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
August 16 2013 19:35 GMT
#47
On August 17 2013 03:55 Charlie.Sheen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 08:55 painkilla wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

esf = non-kespa, the correct definition.


By your logic, Naniwa, Stephano, Huk, are all eSF players.

That's called anti-kespa mentality, just call all of them as non-kespa players, and call your self as anti-kespa fan from now on. This has absolutely nothing to do with eSF.


Because if we restrict to the true esf teams then the competition kespa vs esf becomes nonsensical given one side is three time as big. There is no fun in that. I don't think there is any confusion in referring to gomtv korean players as esf.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-16 19:47:50
August 16 2013 19:42 GMT
#48
On August 17 2013 04:09 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 08:50 Wuster wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:21 Penev wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

Yes, and you're not a true Korean esports organization enthusiast.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how PartinG is specifically mentioned


So you got PartinG right but Jjakji wrong... I don't think I see you point. He still correctly pointed out your mistake.

Edit: Speaking of which, I'm glad Jjakji's back, he looked pretty good yesterday too. Maybe having some team stability will do wonders for his play.

It wasn't a mistake. You have to know the history of the KesPA vs ESF thing aka the "the elephant in the room" thing. It's not important that it isn't completely accurate; It's actually more of a joke now, really. Replace ESF with "pioneers" if you want it to be more accurate. The pioneers being the players who left KesPA in the beginning of SC2. Many people thought (including me) that once KesPA would switch to SC2 after a certain time (my guess was after the release of HotS) their players would dominate the scene. At least until now, it's been pretty much 50/50, exactly 50/50 actually, because PartinG should be considered a pioneer. Not being a Korean esports organization enthusiast is, at least in my book, a good thing btw. I find the "YAY KESPA/ ESF" posts in the LR threads very silly. The seriously meant ones I mean.

@HolyArrow: Telepathy, no doubt. xD


It is my favorite joke on this forum actually. The elephant article was rubbish that disrespected a lot of hard working SC2 players. And it was wrong.

But Kespa players still get too much credit. If you ignore Proleague results, a lot of the Kespa players aren't very good. And that says a lot about the quality of play in Proleague. We all know what happened when Dear called out Naniwa at MLG, and that is just one of the hard lessons in humility that the elephant believers have had to endure.
patchpotato
Profile Joined June 2013
22 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-16 23:57:58
August 16 2013 23:23 GMT
#49
I didn't see a breakdown by team, so I redid the list out of curiosity:

KeSPA(17)
3 CJ Entus - (T)Bbyong (P)herO[jOin] (Z)SonGDuri
2 JinAir - (P)Pigbaby (Z)TRUE
1 KT - (T)Flash
2 Samsung Khan - (P)JangBi (T)Reality
3 SKT1 - (P)PartinG (P)Rain (Z)soO
4 STX - (P)Dear (Z)hyvaa (T)INnoVation (P)Trap
2 WJS - (P)sOs (Z)Soulkey

ESF(14)
3 Azubu - (Z)Sleep (T)SuperNova (Z)Symbol
1 FXO - (T)GuMiho
3 IM - (P)First (Z)KangHo (P)YongHwa
5 MVP - (Z)DongRaeGu (P)DreAm (T)KeeN (P)Super (P)Swagger
1 Prime - (T)Maru
1 Startale - (T)Bomber

Other(1)
1 mYi - (T)jjakji


For comparison, last season looked like this:

KeSPA(17)
2 CJ Entus - (T)Bbyong (Z)EffOrt
1 JinAir (Team 8) - (Z)Savage
1 KT - (T)Flash
3 Samsung Khan - (P)JangBi (Z)RorO (Z)Shine
4 SKT1 - (T)FanTaSy (P)PartinG (P)Rain (Z)soO
3 STX - (Z)hyvaa (T)INnoVation (P)Trap
3 WJS - (P)Flying (P)sOs (Z)Soulkey

ESF(14)
2 Azubu - (T)SuperNova (Z)Symbol
2 FXO - (P)Hurricane (Z)Leenock
5 IM - (P)First (Z)KangHo (Z)RagnaroK (P)Squirtle (P)YongHwa
1 MVP - (T)KeeN
1 Prime - (T)Maru
3 Startale - (T)Bomber (Z)Curious (Z)Life

Other(1)
1 Root - (Z)YugiOh
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-19 21:10:43
August 19 2013 21:09 GMT
#50
On August 17 2013 04:09 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 08:50 Wuster wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:21 Penev wrote:
On August 16 2013 07:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
On August 16 2013 02:18 Penev wrote:
For the Korean esports organization enthusiasts:


jjakji is not on an esf team

Yes, and you're not a true Korean esports organization enthusiast.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how PartinG is specifically mentioned


So you got PartinG right but Jjakji wrong... I don't think I see you point. He still correctly pointed out your mistake.

Edit: Speaking of which, I'm glad Jjakji's back, he looked pretty good yesterday too. Maybe having some team stability will do wonders for his play.

It wasn't a mistake. You have to know the history of the KesPA vs ESF thing aka the "the elephant in the room" thing. It's not important that it isn't completely accurate; It's actually more of a joke now, really. Replace ESF with "pioneers" if you want it to be more accurate. The pioneers being the players who left KesPA in the beginning of SC2. Many people thought (including me) that once KesPA would switch to SC2 after a certain time (my guess was after the release of HotS) their players would dominate the scene. At least until now, it's been pretty much 50/50, exactly 50/50 actually, because PartinG should be considered a pioneer. Not being a Korean esports organization enthusiast is, at least in my book, a good thing btw. I find the "YAY KESPA/ ESF" posts in the LR threads very silly. The seriously meant ones I mean.

@HolyArrow: Telepathy, no doubt. xD


So the entire thing was some weird inside-joke you and HolyArrow and a few other's got?

I do remember the Elephant in the Room article, I remember the OSL / GSL spat last year where ESF was an important organization. Also, the earlier Slayer's and NASL 2* controversies both made ESF a tangible organization and not just some made-up entity in the mind of fanboys.

I'm not entirely sure when it turned into meaning Kespa versus the World, probably when people realized Slayers wasn't in ESF and the non-Kespa Koreans started jumping around to different teams. So it's increasingly becoming more of a misnomer and almost short-hand for GSTL team or non-Kespa as you say.

I agree that the entire rivalry is silly, but like you said, some people take it seriously, some keep score and you did word things pretty ambiguously (your first response especially). But I see what you mean now.

Edit: Ok this was SC2Con, the precursor to eSF, but I think the point still stands.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
August 19 2013 21:25 GMT
#51
some of you guys take the esf/kespa, elephant thing too seriously

its no more than senior prank on freshmen...some seniors will take their elitism seriously with arrogance and most freshmen will get butthurt and take it serious...but most of seniors are just laughing our ass off and move on and some freshment will understand and move on too.

so lets keep the esf/kespa rivalry, elephant, a fun thing to joke about and not something to go full retard over.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
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