• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:30
CET 04:30
KST 12:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC28[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery HELPls! The old replay video w full HD resolution Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers
Tourneys
Bisu's Team vs Shuttle's Team 2026-11-14 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13174 users

Zerg rule finally toppled - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 12 Next All
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3825 Posts
April 18 2013 20:39 GMT
#141
On April 19 2013 05:37 Prplppleatr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 05:35 Grovbolle wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:33 Prplppleatr wrote:
I really wish you would of seperated HOTS and WoL results...so much of this is still coming off of WoL, so quite frankly I think it means nothing until we get more results in HOTS and WoL is diluted out.

If we did, then the ratings would have NO validity what so ever. We have less than 2K hots matches.

Someone already linked TLPD HotS, which has Empire Happy as the best player IN THE WORLD

That's my point. We don't have enough results...so until we can get more results and dilute WoL out, it really has no meaning as to the current state.

So you just want us to make no prediction whatsoever in 6 months?

If so, then just ignore anything we do for the next couple of months, then when we have a lot of results, we can discuss if we want to separate the two
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:10:46
April 18 2013 20:46 GMT
#142
On April 19 2013 05:39 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 05:37 Prplppleatr wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:35 Grovbolle wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:33 Prplppleatr wrote:
I really wish you would of seperated HOTS and WoL results...so much of this is still coming off of WoL, so quite frankly I think it means nothing until we get more results in HOTS and WoL is diluted out.

If we did, then the ratings would have NO validity what so ever. We have less than 2K hots matches.

Someone already linked TLPD HotS, which has Empire Happy as the best player IN THE WORLD

That's my point. We don't have enough results...so until we can get more results and dilute WoL out, it really has no meaning as to the current state.

So you just want us to make no prediction whatsoever in 6 months?

If so, then just ignore anything we do for the next couple of months, then when we have a lot of results, we can discuss if we want to separate the two

LOL, what? I never said anything to that point. What you guys are doing is great. I'm simply pointing out the obvious, to those who can't recognize it, so that they don't take this as such fact. It is statistics based on a lack of information for the state of HOTS. Make all the predictions you want (I already have for WCS NA), but it should be warned (as I am doing) that these are less reliable than they were in WoL (because of the lack of information).

IE. statistics are great, but they are dangerous - especially when based on a lack of information. People should take this with more of a grain of salt.

@conti, agreed. However, the reason I said that I wanted to see a separation is because it would make people confused and more inclined to see why (look at details). Then realize that there is a lack of information, which is the truth. I have nothing against you guys for making a post to say the leading race (based on your site) has changed, but people need to realize the details of the situation and not make such crazy assumptions and interpretations (already one closed post because of it, lol). Again, great job to everyone at aligulac, appreciate it, I didn't mean any offense or anything negative to what you are doing. I just know that some people never bother with details, so I try to add information so they may realize it.
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97277 Posts
April 18 2013 20:46 GMT
#143
On April 19 2013 05:33 Empedocles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 05:25 dani` wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:02 MCXD wrote:
Anyway, TheBB used the system to do his liquibetting last season, and won. So technically it's already done better than most people's subjective analysis of player skill.

Don't Liquibet winners get some special icon next to their name (TheBB doesn't have one)?



Not sure i thought special icons came from having lots of posts and/or interesting posts, not sure though :D

no special icons from lots of posts D:
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Conti
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2516 Posts
April 18 2013 20:56 GMT
#144
On April 19 2013 05:46 Prplppleatr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 05:39 Grovbolle wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:37 Prplppleatr wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:35 Grovbolle wrote:
On April 19 2013 05:33 Prplppleatr wrote:
I really wish you would of seperated HOTS and WoL results...so much of this is still coming off of WoL, so quite frankly I think it means nothing until we get more results in HOTS and WoL is diluted out.

If we did, then the ratings would have NO validity what so ever. We have less than 2K hots matches.

Someone already linked TLPD HotS, which has Empire Happy as the best player IN THE WORLD

That's my point. We don't have enough results...so until we can get more results and dilute WoL out, it really has no meaning as to the current state.

So you just want us to make no prediction whatsoever in 6 months?

If so, then just ignore anything we do for the next couple of months, then when we have a lot of results, we can discuss if we want to separate the two

LOL, what? I never said anything to that point. What you guys are doing is great. I'm simply pointing out the obvious, to those who can't recognize it, so that they don't take this as such fact. It is statistics based on a lack of information for the state of HOTS. Make all the predictions you want (I already have for WCS NA), but it should be warned (as I am doing) that these are less reliable than they were in WoL (because of the lack of information).

IE. statistics are great, but they are dangerous - especially when based on a lack of information. People should take this with more of a grain of salt.

People should. They should take any kind of statistics with more of a grain of salt, in fact.

But as for this ranking and HotS, keeping the WoL games in proves to offer a far more reliable ranking than taking just the HotS games themselves. There will always be a new expansion, or a new patch, or a new metagame, that will make most of the previous games "obsolete", so to speak. But, for the most part, these players are good (or bad) because of their skill, and not because of WoL or the current patch version.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:14:01
April 18 2013 21:05 GMT
#145
On April 19 2013 05:02 MCXD wrote:
Also, TheBB used the system to do his liquibetting and is (was?) leading in winrate. So technically it's already done better than most people's subjective analysis of player skill, despite its flaws.

For a while I had a winrate roughly equal to the leader of the LB rank. I was never actually leading since I jumped into the season late. That blog was posted before the Up and Downs, where we didn't do so well. Another guy posted earlier in this thread that he used Aligulac to get to top 20 with no problems, which agrees with what I found. I didn't keep it up (too lazy/irregular) so I will not win LB, now or ever.

So in its current state, I feel very few can legitimately claim that Aligulac tells them nothing they didn't already know. But for sure it's possible to beat it if you know what you're doing.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:30:37
April 18 2013 21:29 GMT
#146
What if we could get 50 of us fans to pledge $10 each for a best of 7 show match between ForGG and Flash? Someone awesome like Husky would probably cast it for free. That could help move points from EU to Kespa and would be fun to watch.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:43:30
April 18 2013 21:42 GMT
#147
You should try to find the most underrated player possible . That would have the biggest effect. Maybe Gumiho.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
April 18 2013 21:43 GMT
#148
Who is the most underrated Kespa player?
Conti
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2516 Posts
April 18 2013 21:47 GMT
#149
Hmm, Bisu is currently at a measly 213st place, due to him not doing all too well in WoL. He seems to be pretty good in HotS though, and he sure as hell is better than a lot of those 212 other dudes.

Also, it's Bisu. So I vote Bisu!
WeRRa
Profile Joined December 2010
378 Posts
April 18 2013 21:49 GMT
#150
On April 19 2013 06:29 Salient wrote:
What if we could get 50 of us fans to pledge $10 each for a best of 7 show match between ForGG and Flash? Someone awesome like Husky would probably cast it for free. That could help move points from EU to Kespa and would be fun to watch.

Not sure if it is that easy, to get a kespa player to something like that. Especially with Proleague and Gsl ongoing, i don't see that happening.
InnoVation Fighting!!!
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:52:09
April 18 2013 21:51 GMT
#151
On April 19 2013 06:47 Conti wrote:
Hmm, Bisu is currently at a measly 213st place, due to him not doing all too well in WoL. He seems to be pretty good in HotS though, and he sure as hell is better than a lot of those 212 other dudes.

Also, it's Bisu. So I vote Bisu!


Good call. I think that you're right.
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
April 18 2013 21:59 GMT
#152
ForGG world top4? Lucifron best foreigner?

This is simply wrong.
Chicken gank op
theinfamousone
Profile Joined February 2011
United States103 Posts
April 18 2013 22:02 GMT
#153
I'm not sure how Zerg rule is toppled with more zergs than any other race including the #1 spot by far, but ok.
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3825 Posts
April 18 2013 22:06 GMT
#154
On April 19 2013 06:59 Belha wrote:
ForGG world top4? Lucifron best foreigner?

This is simply wrong.

I swear to god that if one more person posts that without reading through the thread I am going to gauge out my own eye with a spoon.
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
April 18 2013 22:08 GMT
#155
On April 19 2013 07:06 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 06:59 Belha wrote:
ForGG world top4? Lucifron best foreigner?

This is simply wrong.

I swear to god that if one more person posts that without reading through the thread I am going to gauge out my own eye with a spoon.


Ooh! Ooh!

"Lucifron best foreigner???"

Huh? Huh?

Let's get King Lear up in the hizzy
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
April 18 2013 22:09 GMT
#156
On April 19 2013 06:59 Belha wrote:
ForGG world top4? Lucifron best foreigner?

This is simply wrong.

It's a travesty, I know. How can ForGG not be #1? :/
teumas
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden280 Posts
April 18 2013 22:46 GMT
#157
Damn, first time I see this website, really impressed with the amount of work put into it!
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
April 18 2013 23:19 GMT
#158
On April 19 2013 00:27 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 00:24 DifuntO wrote:
On April 18 2013 22:52 Grovbolle wrote:
ONLY WINS MATTER. Meaning that a win in an online qualifier Bo3 is the same as beating someone in Ro4 GSL.



Isn't this a big flaw of the ranking system?

That depends, can you objectively rank matches simply based on the context in which they were played?

That would be similar to how teh old MTG system worked, different lvel of tournament had a different "K" value, meaning in bigger tournament the points swings would be bigger, while a pre release event would be K8 with a max of 8 points swing and only points for evenly matched players, a noral event would be k16, a GP k32, worlds k40.
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
April 18 2013 23:22 GMT
#159
On April 19 2013 06:47 Conti wrote:
Hmm, Bisu is currently at a measly 213st place, due to him not doing all too well in WoL. He seems to be pretty good in HotS though, and he sure as hell is better than a lot of those 212 other dudes.

Also, it's Bisu. So I vote Bisu!

If he really does well, he will clim dont sorry, rankings are not an instant measurement of skill, you have to earn it
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
April 18 2013 23:45 GMT
#160
Well that list looks absoutely inaccurate considering the koreans that are on it. Life is not surprising but the rest are. I wouldnt use this data for anything, TLPD ELO is way better.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
09:00
FSL s12 week2: POG vs PTB
Liquipedia
OSC
08:30
Masters Cup #151: Playoffs
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
davetesta30
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
07:00
Best Games of SC
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Solar
SHIN vs MaxPax
herO vs SHIN
PiGStarcraft477
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft490
RuFF_SC2 187
ProTech22
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 121
NaDa 28
Icarus 7
League of Legends
JimRising 645
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi69
Other Games
summit1g10425
tarik_tv5602
C9.Mang0259
ToD154
NeuroSwarm149
ViBE87
WinterStarcraft17
EnDerr0
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV152
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 18
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
6h 30m
WardiTV Invitational
8h 30m
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
13h 30m
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
16h 30m
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
IPSL
1d 13h
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
1d 16h
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
SOOP
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.