Hosts - Chris "ChanmanV" Chan and Steven "Destiny" Bonnell II Show Date/Time Every Tuesday 5pm EST / 11pm CEST Show Stream:http://twitch.tv/chanmanv
"Unfiltered" is a show where ChanmanV and Destiny will discuss 1-2 specific topics in the eSport/gaming industry each week. The goal is to get some interesting discussions/debates going with the viewers and communities while having a relaxed fun time. We may also have special community guests from time to time. We will be taking questions from this thread and stream chat towards the end of the episode so ask away!
Enjoy!
Episode #1(03/28/13) - A Look at Streaming (VOD | MP3) Episode #2(04/04/13) - Blizzard WCS Announcement and Building a Streaming/Gaming Rig (VOD | MP3) Episode #3(04/11/13) - DDoS Post Wrapup, Female Streamer/Gamers, WCS (VOD | MP3) Episode #4(04/18/13) - Impact of Maps on eSports and Balance (VOD | MP3) Episode #5(04/23/13) - WCS NA Qualifiers, Copyrighted Music, Cheaters/Hackers (VOD | MP3) Episode #6(04/30/13) - SHOUTcraft America, Racism around eSports, and more (VOD | MP3) Episode #7(05/07/13) - Tribunal/Policing Games, Documentaries, WCS NA and more (VOD | MP3) Episode #8(05/21/13) - Movies, Athene, Idra/Stephano, and Casters (VOD | MP3) Episode #9(06/04/13) - WCS, Strikers, Twitch Subs, Damsel in Distress Trope (VOD | MP3) Episode #10(06/04/13) - YOU are the interviewer! (VOD | MP3) Episode #11(06/04/13) - Gretorp/Michael Schorr - NASL/MLG WCS AM, DreamHack, Game Design, and much more (VOD | MP3) Episode #12(06/25/13) - Microsoft DRM, TWC, Online Music Collabs (VOD | MP3) Episode #13(07/09/13) - LiquidSheth - Destiny.gg chat/subs, Marn blog post, SuperStar Strikers Cup, MLG smaller events (VOD | MP3) Episode #14(07/16/13) - LiquidSheth - Evo, Communities Playing Nice, LoL Athletes, Steam Summer Sale (VOD | MP3) Episode #15(07/23/13) - Robert Yip - DreamHack, Steam Summer Sale, WCS/TI3 Overlap, Performance Coaching (VOD | MP3) Episode #16(07/30/13) - Tara Babcock, Totalbiscuit, Liquid'Sheth, Kennigit, Quantic.Kaitlyn - Females in eSports Hate in the community (VOD | MP3) Episode #17(08/06/13) - Semmler - Positivity vs Negativity in the Community (VOD | MP3) Episode #18(08/13/13) - ReDeYe - TI3/WCS Weekend, Trash Talking Extremes, Sexuality in eSports (VOD | MP3) Episode #19(08/20/13) - LiquidSheth - Custom Builds and Hearthstone (VOD | MP3) Episode #20(08/27/13) - Adebisi - WCS (VOD | MP3) Episode #21(09/10/13) - Trump - Hearthstone (VOD | MP3) Episode #22(09/24/13) - desRow - Journey To WCS Challenger (VOD | MP3) Episode #23(10/01/13) - Richard Lewis, Totalbiscuit, 2GD, desRow - The Land of Broken Promises (VOD | MP3) Episode #24(10/11/13) - SirScoots, Thorin, Totalbiscuit - Dumbing Down eSports (VOD | MP3) Episode #25(10/22/13) - Adebisi - WCS, YouTube DMCAs, TLOpen (VOD | MP3)
Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I feel like this is going to come up a lot in this thread.
On March 29 2013 02:55 Zennith wrote: Does destiny even know how to play sc2 anymore?
SC2 probably won't be the focus of this event. They point out eSports in general which could be eye opening to viewers if they actually cover everything from fighters to fps to RTS to Mobas etc.
My fear for this show is that having the name "Unfiltered" is asking for tons of people filled with hate to disrupt the eb and flow of the broadcast. I hope this turns out well. If you guys have valid discussions instead of fear mongering opinions then it can be a huge success. Good luck!
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Laughed out loud because it's so freaking true.
So true. ChanmanV gets almost no views, but puts out a lot of quality content. But as soon as there is potential for drama, people are lining up to watch.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
Do you really think that because Destiny stopped playing SC2 his fanbase disappeared? Do you think that his fans are only fans of him and not fans of anything or anyone else? What a weird thing to say.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
actually THIS is the root of bad things when people like you start blindly insulting thousands of people claiming yourself as righteous.
Chan deserves only the very best. Honestly, the guy probably puts out more content than anyone else. And the Bonnell is actually pretty good for a co-host because he really lightens the mood. He may be a prick sometimes, but I feel like he does well in discussions. Hell, I'd probably watch Destiny again if he wasn't playing League all of the time. (Such poor taste!)
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
What an incredibly ignorant statement. If you don't like me, that's cool. But "destructive"? lol, alright, buddy.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I think Day[9] has nice fans. He sets an example of being positive and constructive and it attracts people who are already like that and it influences people to become more like that. There's no doubt that his fans are better behaved than yours and there's no bewilderment at how he ended up with those fans and how you ended up with yours.
And to Waxangel I give the same response: Day[9]. Shows don't have to crank up the scandals to attract more viewers. There are other dimensions of a show to explore or improve. Your suggestion isn't being nice or helpful to anyone.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not making any pre-judgements about Unfiltered. Chanmanv and Destiny are perfectly capable of making a good, successful show.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I think Day[9] has nice fans. He sets an example of being positive and constructive and it attracts people who are already like that and it influences people to become more like that. There's no doubt that his fans are better behaved than yours and there's no bewilderment at how he ended up with those fans and how you ended up with yours.
And to Waxangel I give the same response: Day[9]. Shows don't have to crank up the scandals to attract more viewers. There are other dimensions of a show to explore or improve. Your suggestion isn't being nice or helpful to anyone.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not making any pre-judgements about Unfiltered. Chanmanv and Destiny are perfectly capable of making a good, successful show.
Constructuive =/ positive and political correct.
I persoanlly find shows with hosts that dare to tell the "truth" (by expressing their opinions in a logical fashion) rather than nice guy type.
But what makes esports growth is the room to have different kind of personalities. If you don't like Destiny, don't listen to him/don't watch his stream - watch someone else. Each to his own (im not a fan of his stream fyi). But there is in my opinion no doubt that Desinty has had a positive influence on Sc2 and esports (along with every influentinal famous sc2 player).
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I think Day[9] has nice fans. He sets an example of being positive and constructive and it attracts people who are already like that and it influences people to become more like that. There's no doubt that his fans are better behaved than yours and there's no bewilderment at how he ended up with those fans and how you ended up with yours.
And to Waxangel I give the same response: Day[9]. Shows don't have to crank up the scandals to attract more viewers. There are other dimensions of a show to explore or improve. Your suggestion isn't being nice or helpful to anyone.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not making any pre-judgements about Unfiltered. Chanmanv and Destiny are perfectly capable of making a good, successful show.
Day[9] has nice fans? That's because you're picking and choosing your stereotypes. There are plenty of people on scv and screddit who used to complain about Day9 fans spamming up the forums with their circlejerky love. Happened with Idra's fans as well. Happens with my fans as well. Happens with TLO/Grubby/etc...etc...ANY big name personality can easily have bad/good fans. To stereotype all fans to be one kind of person is insulting to EVERYONE, especially considering so many fans overlap with each other.
It's not like there are 10,000 people who are all divied up into watching different streams. Plenty of my fans are also Day9 fans, plenty of Idra fans are also Grubby fans, plenty of White-ra fans also watch Incontrol, etc...etc...
Besides, having me on to talk about stuff concerning streaming is hardly "scandalous" or "drama-whoring".
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
actually THIS is the root of bad things when people like you start blindly insulting thousands of people claiming yourself as righteous.
^ This. Sick of people claiming that they do everything the right way and that everything they do is justified. The moment you hold a torch is the moment you lose respect from people like me. Destiny isn't a bad person, he just does what he wants. I think we need more people like him (and other entertainers) around the sc community (and eSports in general) to make it more entertaining as it gives people something to talk about. If I ever become famous, I'm going to do whatever makes me happy and not give 2 fucks about who dislikes it as it's none of my concern as long as I'm doing what I need to do to keep myself happy.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I think Day[9] has nice fans. He sets an example of being positive and constructive and it attracts people who are already like that and it influences people to become more like that. There's no doubt that his fans are better behaved than yours and there's no bewilderment at how he ended up with those fans and how you ended up with yours.
And to Waxangel I give the same response: Day[9]. Shows don't have to crank up the scandals to attract more viewers. There are other dimensions of a show to explore or improve. Your suggestion isn't being nice or helpful to anyone.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not making any pre-judgements about Unfiltered. Chanmanv and Destiny are perfectly capable of making a good, successful show.
Day9 has just as many troll fans as everyone else. I can't tell you how annoying it is to mod chats and all you see is "R.I.P DAY9" or "THATS DAY9s SMURF" and other random shit.
BUT, with all of that aside, I will tune into this show because it seems like it will be legit.
Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
Also, boycotting the stream because you don't like his fanbase is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do you honestly care THAT much about the stream chat or something? Obviously, if you do not like Destiny, then it'd be silly to watch the show since he's a co-host. But I don't think this show is going to suddenly cause the whole SC2/TL community to turn to shit. Most of them probably use TL anyway, so I doubt much will change.
Should be good. Destiny isn't afraid to speak his mind and I feel he can be very rational, level headed, objective and is able to back up what he says. I find his thoughts interesting even though I don't always agree.
Not watching because you don't like someone's fan base is completely irrelevant and stupid. If you let someone's fan base get in the way of enjoying thought provoking conversations, then that's your own loss.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I think Day[9] has nice fans. He sets an example of being positive and constructive and it attracts people who are already like that and it influences people to become more like that. There's no doubt that his fans are better behaved than yours and there's no bewilderment at how he ended up with those fans and how you ended up with yours.
And to Waxangel I give the same response: Day[9]. Shows don't have to crank up the scandals to attract more viewers. There are other dimensions of a show to explore or improve. Your suggestion isn't being nice or helpful to anyone.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not making any pre-judgements about Unfiltered. Chanmanv and Destiny are perfectly capable of making a good, successful show.
Day[9] is also extremely PC with everything, and one of the more boring people to listen to.
Yes he's nice, but it feels like listening to a robot.
I would categorize people like destiny who actually speak opinions even if unpopular, in a different category than people like day[9] who just say the nicest most un controversial thing they can, and it's unfair to compare them.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
Also, boycotting the stream because you don't like his fanbase is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do you honestly care THAT much about the stream chat or something? Obviously, if you do not like Destiny, then it'd be silly to watch the show since he's a co-host. But I don't think this show is going to suddenly cause the whole SC2/TL community to turn to shit. Most of them probably use TL anyway, so I doubt much will change.
To be clear, I don’t care for Destiny or his opinions to be particularly interesting.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I totally agree with this guy. Destiny is an attention seeker who speaks loudly and if he is wrong he runs away look up inside the game 57. Sure maybe he can redeem himself but I frankly wish he would go away and not be listed on teamliquid but all I can do is not watch his stream. But at the end of the day his agruements are constucted likemy niece would construct them and she's 4. Sure day 9 is super nice but he presents good agruements look at him on old state of the game episodes.
Good luck, I wish you lot's of viewers. It is obvious you deserve more than you get, for putting that much work into it and producing good content. Destiny is probably one of the better choices to have as co-hosts, unlike others ... ha, I remember the older State of the Game, where you could count the words of some "additions" in one show with 2 hands. "I haven't seen X", "I agree", "I have no opinion", "Yes", "No". Nobody wants that shit. Steven will without a doubt bring in a good amount of viewers. Calling all fans of one person toxic is quite an insolence.
HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do in order to avoid controversy. But it looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
I don't think destiny is bad and he is pretty rational and intelligent. Its just the way he argues and his language that deters more sheltered people. If he doesn't want to cater to everyone and be politically correct all the time, I could care less. There are bigger issues in the world than one guy who may or may not influence a couple thousand people in the world.
Sounds pretty interesting. wondering what issues will be discussed and if more SC2 focus or LoL focus since it seems those are the primary games the two play.
+/- however many viewers because of the hosts, it's nice to see more content and hearing thoughts from people in the community. I wonder how often they'll have guests since having a 2-man show might be hard sometimes to hash out and focus on 1-2 topics.
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
On March 29 2013 04:57 dAPhREAk wrote: well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
Oh, didn't know. Cannot really speak on it since I never saw it. But good thing I threw in an "almost always" in there! ^_~
very hostile environment for destiny, haha goodluck steven.
I will generalize the TL community as an elitist community. Chanman trying to bring a new show, Unfiltered, is like introducing Jerry Springer Show to an auditorium full of fans for Opera.
You could just not comment on the thread, but to attack the co-host based on the past scandals or generalizing his fanbase shows how much of a bigot you are. Some could say he is toxic to the community but is SC2 not already scandalous? Destiny actually built his fanbase off SC2, and he could as well represent the minority of SC2 that are trolls which I doubt.
On March 29 2013 04:57 dAPhREAk wrote: well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
Oh, didn't know. Cannot really speak on it since I never saw it. But good thing I threw in an "almost always" in there! ^_~
it was pretty funny, you should check it out. i am going to check out the show tonight just in the hope that some shenanigans happen . i know you're reading this thread destiny. make the shenaningans happen. =)
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
I love how your presenting such a weak argument, you watched that episode, did he RUN away? some will say yes. but if you watched it you would notice why he walked out. the hosts weren't being hosts but were only attacking him. hi 5! yay! they so cool!
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
I love how your presenting such a weak argument, you watched that episode, did he RUN away? some will say yes. but if you watched it you would notice why he walked out. the hosts weren't being hosts but were only attacking him. hi 5! yay! they so cool!
Well it would have been ok, if they just attacked him through verbal disagreements. However, what happened in that show was more like "adult bullying".
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
I love how your presenting such a weak argument, you watched that episode, did he RUN away? some will say yes. but if you watched it you would notice why he walked out. the hosts weren't being hosts but were only attacking him. hi 5! yay! they so cool!
he made comments and then hung up. if you want to have a semantics debate about whether that is running away or not, go for it.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
On March 29 2013 05:13 FilthyRake wrote: wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
I did say "I could be wrong, of course." since I do not know for certain (obviously). I just find it more likely that Day [9] is different from the persona he is known for. I suppose there's no way for us to know that, though, now is there? Like other public figures (especially politicians), there's more to them than what they show. His personality may lead to a nicer community overall, but I doubt people change that much. I think what ends up happening is that the people who do not care for his personality stop watching him, and the people who do like his personality do watch him. Nothing more. A smile can go a long way, but even Steven smiles!
@dAPhREAk Well, what HeeroFX said was "Destiny is an attention seeker who speaks loudly and if he is wrong he runs away look up inside the game 57". In that case, he may have ran away, but was he seeking attention? I doubt it. And, I have seen some of the video. Honestly, I think Steven's points on what HotS needed was pretty close. Incontrol went on to say how "Steven is saying how Blizzard should make THEIR OWN GAME!", but seriously, Blizzard DOES need that guidance. Do you know how many stupid-ass things Blizzard does? Diablo 3 is the perfect example of it, too. (There's a reason why TONS of the people who bought D3 fled). A lot of what Destiny did say did happen. The game is quite a bit more accessible now, whether or not that was due to Steven, I do not know. Also, Incontrol made far WORSE points. Both parties were somewhat wrong about somethings, but I definitely think Destiny defended his point just fine.
So, he didn't really run away, the hosts just made stupid comments having little to do with what he said. Honestly, I don't know why you referenced this episode, because he did exactly as I said. He defended his point and no one refuted them. Incontrol even said the argument is about "Is this the only way change will happen" or "is it not the only way...?" which honestly, is barely worth spending more than 3 minutes of arguing.
I watched the part where Steven came on again, so that's why it is so detailed.
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
I love how your presenting such a weak argument, you watched that episode, did he RUN away? some will say yes. but if you watched it you would notice why he walked out. the hosts weren't being hosts but were only attacking him. hi 5! yay! they so cool!
he made comments and then hung up. if you want to have a semantics debate about whether that is running away or not, go for it.
Let us state the fact that in my previous comment that I asked "did he run away?" I also said "... he walked out"
Hmmm, lets talk about why he ran away. Lets change the environment into a more Destiny persona stream, if we had DJwheat, Incontrol, Idra, Demu into DESTINYS stream. or only one of them into a stream full of Destiny persona's (like where his co-hosts are likely to agree with Destiny). You would notice it was a hostile environment.
He was brought into a hostile environment already. He had to run away. Even when Destiny was not on the stream, as a viewer of ITG i could say that there have been times in which Incontrol would attack Destiny (WHY i must ask, theres no reason too and I AM GLAD that destiny isnt mentioned on the stream anymore). The episode is very ugly as there was no intellectual debate, there was no moderators for the talk. it was just a gangbang fest on destiny.
Thats why he ran but I am sure you wouldve ran too. obivously he didnt respond to it in a Day9 way but man. if you had a bunch of dudes hating on you for your opinion then damn esports isnt ready for shit then.
I am no longer going to post on this thread as it is just nonsense, I hope the best for Unfiltered and I will be watching it. Please take note that I do support EG as I am a regular viewer for ITG, Suppy and Idra and I am a fan of Destiny. Fans do overlap.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
On March 29 2013 05:26 Hider wrote: According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
Well, I'm not his BFF or anything (though my coworker is the legendary Tristan), but I've met him many times, and interact with him reasonably often, and if he is acting he does it more often and with more energy than I would believe possible
I personally stopped following or supporting or "being a fan of" Destiny in general after the incident on ITG, but I actually think this is an interesting idea for a show.
Chanman's calm rationalism should be a pretty interesting counterbalance to Destiny's off the cuff sensationalism. I think this is the perfect show for Destiny to be on really... If it doesn't work and devolves into Destiny simply screaming at people without considering their points or admitting when his argument has lost its footing then I'm sure Chanman will know to pull the plug on the conversation if it goes to far.
Bottom line: It could be a horrible failure, but it could be really entertaining so I'm willing to give this a shot!
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
I think we all know the Day 9 is acting a bit and putting on a show for the crowd However, I believe that Day 9 is truly enthusiastic about SC2, games and does like his fans a lot. He may not be as over the top when it is not on camera, but we are all pretty aware that he is an entertainer.
Destiny is a true fucking gangster, he doesn't pretend to be someone else ala day9. Being a fake is worse then being an asshole. When you hide from the truth you are the problem not the solution.
If history is anything to go off of: something controversial will happen and Chanman will either get rid of Destiny/cancel the show, someone will do some DDOSing, or /r/SRS will ruin the show.
ANYWAY, This thread is proof that there are people interested in it (hell, I just spent 30 minutes arguing for Destiny and I don't currently watch the guy!). Also, if you do not like Steven, you really do not have to watch it. I don't go into the Korean Music Discussion and say how I do not think Korean pop music should exist, do I? Let people do as they please. If the show doesn't get a lot of views because Destiny is on it, then that's that. The show will likely stop and there is no problem. It's not like Chan is sacrificing much to do this (other than his time, of course!)
On March 29 2013 05:50 TeslasPigeon wrote: If history is anything to go off of: something controversial will happen and Chanman will either get rid of Destiny/cancel the show, someone will do some DDOSing, or /r/SRS will ruin the show.
Maybe, but it will be one hell of a ride. Can't wait.
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do not do to avoid controversy. It looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
well, he did hang up on ITG after making some stupid comments, so, he does run away. that is just one example though. not sure if there are others.
I love how your presenting such a weak argument, you watched that episode, did he RUN away? some will say yes. but if you watched it you would notice why he walked out. the hosts weren't being hosts but were only attacking him. hi 5! yay! they so cool!
he made comments and then hung up. if you want to have a semantics debate about whether that is running away or not, go for it.
Let us state the fact that in my previous comment that I asked "did he run away?" I also said "... he walked out"
Hmmm, lets talk about why he ran away. Lets change the environment into a more Destiny persona stream, if we had DJwheat, Incontrol, Idra, Demu into DESTINYS stream. or only one of them into a stream full of Destiny persona's (like where his co-hosts are likely to agree with Destiny). You would notice it was a hostile environment.
He was brought into a hostile environment already. He had to run away. Even when Destiny was not on the stream, as a viewer of ITG i could say that there have been times in which Incontrol would attack Destiny (WHY i must ask, theres no reason too and I AM GLAD that destiny isnt mentioned on the stream anymore). The episode is very ugly as there was no intellectual debate, there was no moderators for the talk. it was just a gangbang fest on destiny.
Thats why he ran but I am sure you wouldve ran too. obivously he didnt respond to it in a Day9 way but man. if you had a bunch of dudes hating on you for your opinion then damn esports isnt ready for shit then.
I am no longer going to post on this thread as it is just nonsense, I hope the best for Unfiltered and I will be watching it. Please take note that I do support EG as I am a regular viewer for ITG, Suppy and Idra and I am a fan of Destiny. Fans do overlap.
i am glad we are in agreement that he ran away. for a second there, i thought you were disputing it.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
I think we all know the Day 9 is acting a bit and putting on a show for the crowd However, I believe that Day 9 is truly enthusiastic about SC2, games and does like his fans a lot. He may not be as over the top when it is not on camera, but we are all pretty aware that he is an entertainer.
Yeh definitely - He is really good for the community and a lot of new players like to watch the daily thing.
However, I don't understand why you only thing personalities who are "overly" positive are good for esports/sc2. Personally I belive we need a variety of personalities to satify the needs of different "consumers/viewers". Also I do think it is very important that we can never be satifised with the status quo and we need to have people to discuss potential solututions in order to progress as an esports. The "everything is going to be alright if we are just happy" is IMO not a very good approach.
On March 29 2013 04:50 Blargh wrote: HeeroFX, I think you got it backwards. Destiny speaks loudly, and almost always (as seen in this thread actually..) he will NOT run away! He will argue for what he says/does. His arguments are generally pretty rational, but some are worse than others. Compared to the average person, he's far better at reasoning and logical arguments. Visit his website, he has a lot of well-thought out posts on miscellaneous topics.
His attention mostly comes from speaking his opinion, something most people do in order to avoid controversy. But it looks like the toxins have already reached you, my friend.
Note: I don't even watch Destiny, so I sure hope no one comes in and tries to call me a fan-boy.
No I got it the way I meant it. Like I said check out that episode of inside the game. Destiny vs day9 is such a bad comparison. Destiny does nothing but stream and talk trash. He cries wolf all the time. He is like glen beck a guy who does and says things for attention. Day9 works hard to create content, to spread the good stuff of sc2. Day9 played bw he comentates and tries to build up esports from the sc side. Day9 is like a Beatle huge fans all love him, some weridly in love with him. Sure destiny is defending himself but its his thread to defend, if he said nothing I would be surprised.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
I think we all know the Day 9 is acting a bit and putting on a show for the crowd However, I believe that Day 9 is truly enthusiastic about SC2, games and does like his fans a lot. He may not be as over the top when it is not on camera, but we are all pretty aware that he is an entertainer.
Yeh definitely - He is really good for the community and a lot of new players like to watch the daily thing.
However, I don't understand why you only thing personalities who are "overly" positive are good for esports/sc2. Personally I belive we need a variety of personalities to satify the needs of different "consumers/viewers". Also I do think it is very important that we can never be satifised with the status quo and we need to have people to discuss potential solututions in order to progress as an esports. The "everything is going to be alright if we are just happy" is IMO not a very good approach.
I agree and want people to question and challenge the status quo. I like people who look at things objectively and try to find solutions to problems in the scene and challenge things that are stupid. But there is a difference between being critical and being mindlessly negative for the sake of doing so. Ideally, I would like someone who is positive and also critical when necessary, trying to keep everyone honest, but not be destructive because they can be.
@HeeroFX Zzz, you didn't even read my second post then (it's really long). I watched every Destiny-related bit in that ITG episode. You are flat-out wrong if you think Destiny failed to defend his argument in that video/stream. Saying that all Destiny does is beg for attention then run away is silly. You clearly do not know anything about Destiny and are in no position to criticize the guy. I would love for YOU to defend YOUR argument, actually. Don't just run off now!
@ACrow "Doesn't give a shit about the game" He may not care much for SC2 now, but it would be stupid to say that he never cared about it. He did, after all, write a huge-ass reddit post about what HotS needs, which was the talk-of-TL for at least a week. He's a controversial character, but he isn't as bad as you make him sound.
On March 29 2013 04:27 Blargh wrote: Day[9] has a reputation and a certain personality which makes him very accessible to the common SC2 fan. Hell, Day 9's personality is more of an act than anything else. At least Steven is somewhat true to himself, aka a humorous ass. Though, I could be wrong on that, of course.
wait, I'm sorry, what?! Day9 is genuinely nice, and his on-air personality is VERY much like his regular personality. About the only "act" he puts on is that he's a little bit more energetic on air (I guess. a little).
Not saying anything negative about Destiny. I have no problems with the guy, and I love Chanman, so hopefully good things will come of the show :D
According to people who know him before he sc2 came out, he is "acting" right now.
I think we all know the Day 9 is acting a bit and putting on a show for the crowd However, I believe that Day 9 is truly enthusiastic about SC2, games and does like his fans a lot. He may not be as over the top when it is not on camera, but we are all pretty aware that he is an entertainer.
Yeh definitely - He is really good for the community and a lot of new players like to watch the daily thing.
However, I don't understand why you only thing personalities who are "overly" positive are good for esports/sc2. Personally I belive we need a variety of personalities to satify the needs of different "consumers/viewers". Also I do think it is very important that we can never be satifised with the status quo and we need to have people to discuss potential solututions in order to progress as an esports. The "everything is going to be alright if we are just happy" is IMO not a very good approach.
I agree and want people to question and challenge the status quo. I like people who look at things objectively and try to find solutions to problems in the scene and challenge things that are stupid. But there is a difference between being critical and being mindlessly negative for the sake of doing so. Ideally, I would like someone who is positive and also critical when necessary, trying to keep everyone honest, but not be destructive because they can be.
Why do you think Destiny is mindlessly negative? Which part of his original post (that caused all the trouble) did you disagree with?
Regardless of how long the show lasts, I think it will be good publicity for Chanman and will be entertaining to watch. But I would like to point out something that is past the point of ridiculous. This "for the E-sports" thought process is bs and needs to stop. If you do everything "For E-sports" and behave in a manner "that will enhance E-sports" you essentially create a bubble where in the short term you have a positive effect but in the long term you actually hinder the community; Just do something because you as a person or group think it will be beneficial for you and if E-sports grows then that is a bonus. We don't need certain personalities for E-sports to grow, we don't need to take auditions for Community leaders that target audiences.
This is pretty awesome, Chanman has some great content and always keep his youtube up to date so its easy to get everything, I "found" him recently and have been listening to some of his previous shows, so to see him adding more stuff is very nice.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
On March 29 2013 05:37 imJealous wrote: I personally stopped following or supporting or "being a fan of" Destiny in general after the incident on ITG
Really? The "incident" was nothing but the home boys deej, iNcontroL, and IdrA relentlessly ragging on Destiny for no reason, then when Destiny had had enough, and made a slight insult, (much like the rest of them had been doing the entire time), they all flipped shit and got all angry for some hypocritical reason.
It reminded me of bullying. Now that I know more of Destiny, I can comfortably say that it is likely that's what it was, too, as that's what the whole old boys club of SC has been doing to Destiny for a very long time.
It boggles my mind that people haven't gone absolutely crazy against deej for it, too. Someone like that is meant to be professional. He broke, which is fine, but then he didn't even apologise. He didn't show any remorse. And no-one is angry.
And I know people will get up in arms, all about "he's done so much for eSports" etc., which is completely irrelevant in every way possible. Anyone remember this?
The people who are blindly insulting Destiny are the real reason E-Sports gets hurt. The pure fact those people are too narrow minded to look past what is the past and on to what could be a bright future for ChanmanV here is what ends up being anything but beneficial for the scene.
If people were to just put down the pitchforks and maybe see this play out, there just might be some beneficial content to more than just the E-sports scene but themselves as well.
Regardless, can't wait to watch! Very excited to see ChanmanV and Destiny do their thing. Good luck to both!
On March 29 2013 07:02 TheOneBlackSwan wrote: Does anyone have a link to the " ITG incident " I think I missed that, and on topic ... I'm actually looking forward to this
After that, DjWheat goes absolutely bananas. Probably because he wasn't really aware of what had happened (Incontrol's high five to Idra was an attempt at humilitiating Destiny = bullying).
After the incidicent, Destiny attempted to be the bigger man by making a public apology (cus he was partly guily at creating a heated up discussion), while Incontrol made these kind of comments on reddit;
You comparing an executive business meeting to Inside the Game is flattering but completely out of line. If I was trying to run a business meeting I wouldn't have Destiny in there. He'd be running coffee for us or taking phone calls in a low cut skirt. I don't think your analogy holds up.
On March 29 2013 07:26 ratbert wrote: I'll still watch all of your shows as much as I can but not this one. keep up the good work Chanman, I admire your dedication!
On March 29 2013 07:26 ratbert wrote: I'll still watch all of your shows as much as I can but not this one. keep up the good work Chanman, I admire your dedication!
You know, i actually like inControL and Idra, but on this case, better not defend them. They acted stupid, their intentions were made even clearer in the "aftermath" on reddit. These were retarded comments.
Not saying that Destiny was right or anything, as a matter of fact i disagree with him - but there is no reason to "gang up" and try to bash him. And don't get me started on Wheat, but that's a different thread i guess.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
You see, i faintly remember Stephano talking about exact this matter.. He kinda disagrees with you.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
You see, i faintly remember Stephano talking about exact this matter.. He kinda disagrees with you.
I wasn't referring to professional gamers, I was addressing the individuals addressed in the post I quoted.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
What Destiny is talking about now makes totally sense: Starcraft 2 could definitely benefit from an improved business model (both from a monetary perspective and an esports perspective). The exact shape of the business model is completely not something I would let Destiny take care off. Instead, I happen to believe that ATVI is one of the few multibillion dollar companies which have too few MBA's employed.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
You see, i faintly remember Stephano talking about exact this matter.. He kinda disagrees with you.
I wasn't referring to professional gamers, I was addressing the individuals addressed in the post I quoted.
First, does not change the fact that there are alot of people going into eSport for the pesetas, and secondly, there's a difference between "not going in for the money" and "not being paid at all". If you put work into something, and the individuals adressed by Destiny clearly do that, you should get a reward that actually enables you to live.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
Nobody gets into eSports for money? Really as a photographer/graphic designer for numerous companies in eSports I can tell you that has to the be the dumbest statement you could possibly of made and there has been times where I didn't get paid for one reason or another and it SUCKS. Also the eSports community isn't a church community group so quit complaining when an individual uses harsh language to get a point across. Destiny's response is totally justified.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
i think he meant entering e-sports, not staying in it. of course all those people are in esports for the money, like you said its their job. but i dont think prospective people enter it thinking theyre going to be floating thousands of viewers and making big bux etc. when day9 started the daily i dont think he thought 'hey i can make loads of money from this'. he just wanted to give back to the community.
its just that before EG had a LoL team he was like all 'league of casuals' but now they bought one of the best teams in EU he has to kinda admit that it might just possibly a good game. kinda makes all the criticism he and idra threw at destiny for playing LoL stupid.
He doesn't have to "admit" anything, he just has to pretend he likes it whether that's true or not. That doesn't makes the opinion he stated while he could stupid.
I support Chan, not Destiny. I honestly feel like Destiny is cancerous to this community. Sure he brings drama but it's such a derogatory and childish persona he brings to everything. Bottom line, Destiny is associated with negativity and promotes a complete disregard for any type of class associated with professionalism. If he is "helping" e-sports by attracting people like him then so be it. E-sports will not thrive with him and the current way he is. At some point he will have to grow up and realize how childish all this really was.
We need more Day 9''s out there spreading positive re-enforcement and a respect toward others.
I have to say that i didnt know that incident from ITG, but now that i do, i must say (and im not a fan of destiny and i dont dislike him too) but after what i saw in the clip Incontrol and Idra where big time jackass's :/
In topic: If you dislike the co-host in Unfiltred show dont see it. Dont come here try to pursuade people to not seeing the show..
Off topic: And i want to see Destiny's HATE MAIL because they talk about you like you are the SATAN.
Man i watch your stream from time to time and not even once i saw Destiny being what you all talk in this thread :| This is just crazy :\
edit: This show is getting more viewers than most Chanman shows do.
More viewers for Chanman is nice, but I think if this show was hosted on destiny's stream instead, it'd be at least at 3K, probably 4-5K. It's a shame destiny's number isn't translating over as much.
edit: This show is getting more viewers than most Chanman shows do.
More viewers for Chanman is nice, but I think if this show was hosted on destiny's stream instead, it'd be at least at 3K, probably 4-5K. It's a shame destiny's number isn't translating over as much.
Taking into account normally chanman has 150-300 viewers...
The difference between you and Steven as entertainers comes down to the fact that Steven can support his own brand, while you rely on a salary. Great job.
edit: This show is getting more viewers than most Chanman shows do.
More viewers for Chanman is nice, but I think if this show was hosted on destiny's stream instead, it'd be at least at 3K, probably 4-5K. It's a shame destiny's number isn't translating over as much.
Taking into account normally chanman has 150-300 viewers...
Fair point. I swear last time destiny was on talking about own3d it hit up to 3K? That was my expectation here.
edit: This show is getting more viewers than most Chanman shows do.
More viewers for Chanman is nice, but I think if this show was hosted on destiny's stream instead, it'd be at least at 3K, probably 4-5K. It's a shame destiny's number isn't translating over as much.
Taking into account normally chanman has 150-300 viewers...
On March 29 2013 08:09 th3_great wrote: i feel sorry for people not watching because they dislike destiny, because the content of the show is very interesting and informative.
Extremely interesting actually. Ashamed it wasn't featured.
On March 29 2013 06:34 Blargh wrote: @HeeroFX Zzz, you didn't even read my second post then (it's really long). I watched every Destiny-related bit in that ITG episode. You are flat-out wrong if you think Destiny failed to defend his argument in that video/stream. Saying that all Destiny does is beg for attention then run away is silly. You clearly do not know anything about Destiny and are in no position to criticize the guy. I would love for YOU to defend YOUR argument, actually. Don't just run off now!
@ACrow "Doesn't give a shit about the game" He may not care much for SC2 now, but it would be stupid to say that he never cared about it. He did, after all, write a huge-ass reddit post about what HotS needs, which was the talk-of-TL for at least a week. He's a controversial character, but he isn't as bad as you make him sound.
I did read it, and you are wrong. Destiny "sc 2 is dying we are all doomed" post you remember that? SC 2 is fine, the people who watch it are the people who play it. Just like LoL more people play LoL its logical to link those together In fact I have no idea why I am wasting time defending this because at the end of the day you are a blind destiny fan boy.
For the better or worse I think an assertive, no-bullshit approach like Destiny's is a good thing to have on a weekly show, regardless of whether or not you agree with him on each statement he makes. More, I think it's something we need right now, because it's unfortunately rare to get an honest opinion from someone who's got no strings attached on what he can or cannot say. The circlejerk/hate-bandwagon is of course gonna happen because it's Destiny, but I think overall this is a positive thing, and I say this without being a Destiny fan at all.
edit: This show is getting more viewers than most Chanman shows do.
More viewers for Chanman is nice, but I think if this show was hosted on destiny's stream instead, it'd be at least at 3K, probably 4-5K. It's a shame destiny's number isn't translating over as much.
Taking into account normally chanman has 150-300 viewers...
Exactly. People moan about having "pure" esports without controversial figures, and Chanman does do shows like that, but the viewers don't flock like they do right now lol.
This is basically why I dont listen to any pro-incontrol or anti-destiny arguments(because they are almost always started by an incontrol fanboy)
I used to like incontrol, and i watched his stream regularly, even now i could still watch his stream, its not him as a personality or him as a person that i dislike, its his hypicritical nature, and blatant bullying. Incontrol is a type-A personality, and It wouldnt suprise me if he was a bit "aggressive" in high school.
Regardless of the off topic nature this thread has turned to, and that I have sadly now contributed to, I really like chanman, hes the reason i got into the hots beta, and hes a good no bullshit no drama pillar of the community that provides always current, always positive, and always quality content. The show so far hasnt been bad, and I think that it contains less fluff than EVERY other show on esports, hands down.
Kinda guessing Incontrol was the mod who warned Destiny.
Aw man I bet destinys TL account is gonna get banned... again? haha. Unfiltered needs to have more advertisements. I did not even know that they were live, until reading this thread.
Twitter, gotta show them sponsors like ITG. how is this show getting supported?
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
On March 29 2013 06:34 Blargh wrote: @HeeroFX Zzz, you didn't even read my second post then (it's really long). I watched every Destiny-related bit in that ITG episode. You are flat-out wrong if you think Destiny failed to defend his argument in that video/stream. Saying that all Destiny does is beg for attention then run away is silly. You clearly do not know anything about Destiny and are in no position to criticize the guy. I would love for YOU to defend YOUR argument, actually. Don't just run off now!
@ACrow "Doesn't give a shit about the game" He may not care much for SC2 now, but it would be stupid to say that he never cared about it. He did, after all, write a huge-ass reddit post about what HotS needs, which was the talk-of-TL for at least a week. He's a controversial character, but he isn't as bad as you make him sound.
I did read it, and you are wrong. Destiny "sc 2 is dying we are all doomed" post you remember that? SC 2 is fine, the people who watch it are the people who play it. Just like LoL more people play LoL its logical to link those together In fact I have no idea why I am wasting time defending this because at the end of the day you are a blind destiny fan boy.
"I won't argue with you because you disagree with me"
Not tuning into anything with Destiny, but good luck.
On March 29 2013 08:15 howLiN wrote: The circlejerk/hate-bandwagon is of course gonna happen because it's Destiny, but I think overall this is a positive thing, and I say this without being a Destiny fan at all.
I think you mean circlejerk/like-bandwagon; people who like him tend to be immature and do so because it's edgy (evidence of this is the fact that his chats regularly "raids" people), while people who dislike him tend to have that opinion based on logic and not any kind of peer pressure.
On March 29 2013 08:15 howLiN wrote: The circlejerk/hate-bandwagon is of course gonna happen because it's Destiny, but I think overall this is a positive thing, and I say this without being a Destiny fan at all.
I think you mean circlejerk/like-bandwagon; people who like him tend to be immature and do so because it's edgy (evidence of this is the fact that his chats regularly "raids" people), while people who dislike him tend to have that opinion based on logic and not any kind of peer pressure.
ironic that you mention bandwagons when you make such sweeping statements like that.
On March 29 2013 08:15 howLiN wrote: The circlejerk/hate-bandwagon is of course gonna happen because it's Destiny, but I think overall this is a positive thing, and I say this without being a Destiny fan at all.
I think you mean circlejerk/like-bandwagon; people who like him tend to be immature and do so because it's edgy (evidence of this is the fact that his chats regularly "raids" people), while people who dislike him tend to have that opinion based on logic and not any kind of peer pressure.
No, I meant circlejerk over Destiny on one side and hate-bandwagon on another, at the same time.
On March 29 2013 06:34 Blargh wrote: @HeeroFX Zzz, you didn't even read my second post then (it's really long). I watched every Destiny-related bit in that ITG episode. You are flat-out wrong if you think Destiny failed to defend his argument in that video/stream. Saying that all Destiny does is beg for attention then run away is silly. You clearly do not know anything about Destiny and are in no position to criticize the guy. I would love for YOU to defend YOUR argument, actually. Don't just run off now!
@ACrow "Doesn't give a shit about the game" He may not care much for SC2 now, but it would be stupid to say that he never cared about it. He did, after all, write a huge-ass reddit post about what HotS needs, which was the talk-of-TL for at least a week. He's a controversial character, but he isn't as bad as you make him sound.
I did read it, and you are wrong. Destiny "sc 2 is dying we are all doomed" post you remember that? SC 2 is fine, the people who watch it are the people who play it. Just like LoL more people play LoL its logical to link those together In fact I have no idea why I am wasting time defending this because at the end of the day you are a blind destiny fan boy.
Destiny (like everyone else) predicted an increase in viewerships after the release of HOTS. Your claim of him being wrong is ridicilous if you really understood his message.
On March 29 2013 06:34 Blargh wrote: @HeeroFX Zzz, you didn't even read my second post then (it's really long). I watched every Destiny-related bit in that ITG episode. You are flat-out wrong if you think Destiny failed to defend his argument in that video/stream. Saying that all Destiny does is beg for attention then run away is silly. You clearly do not know anything about Destiny and are in no position to criticize the guy. I would love for YOU to defend YOUR argument, actually. Don't just run off now!
@ACrow "Doesn't give a shit about the game" He may not care much for SC2 now, but it would be stupid to say that he never cared about it. He did, after all, write a huge-ass reddit post about what HotS needs, which was the talk-of-TL for at least a week. He's a controversial character, but he isn't as bad as you make him sound.
I did read it, and you are wrong. Destiny "sc 2 is dying we are all doomed" post you remember that? SC 2 is fine, the people who watch it are the people who play it. Just like LoL more people play LoL its logical to link those together In fact I have no idea why I am wasting time defending this because at the end of the day you are a blind destiny fan boy.
Yep, destiny's sc2 dying was silly, but many of the things pointed out about player retention problems with the game (and as viewer the metagame stagnation) were spot on, and some of the features in hots, i am 100% positive is because of the response to that post, since even if most people focused on the "sc2 dying yay or nay" thing, others actually tried to speak about what they thought blizzard should do to improve the game.
And i am not a destiny fanboy, i don't watch his stream since 2010, so you can bet your ass i couldn't care less about he leaving sc2 because he thought it was going to die, but salvaging parts of the post which actually had constructive criticism.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
You can't really be that naive, can you? People try to go into it to make money, else those organizations would never have formed in the first place.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
People entering e-sports? If by entering e-sports you mean people who make videos on youtube, stream casual play, or post on websites then most people probably don't do it for the money. If however you mean the people who actually run tournaments, foot the money for prize pools, host team websites, and spend countless hours planning events? Those people are doing that for money, as a job. Also? Those are the people who REALLY grow a community. The idea that e-sports is some fraternity of brotherhood where the common man rises up to spread the love of videogames in a climax of passion and an inevitable utopia of free content is a FANTASY. The people/organizations involved? Organizations like MLG? They are in this for money, and they have done FAR more for the growth of the gaming community than someone who made a few youtube videos FOR TEH COMMUNITY XD will ever do.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
People entering e-sports? If by entering e-sports you mean people who make videos on youtube, stream casual play, or post on websites then most people probably don't do it for the money. If however you mean the people who actually run tournaments, foot the money for prize pools, host team websites, and spend countless hours planning events? Those people are doing that for money, as a job. Also? Those are the people who REALLY grow a community. The idea that e-sports is some fraternity of brotherhood where the common man rises up to spread the love of videogames in a climax of passion and an inevitable utopia of free content is a FANTASY. The people/organizations involved? Organizations like MLG? They are in this for money, and they have done FAR more for the growth of the gaming community than someone who made a few youtube videos FOR TEH COMMUNITY XD will ever do.
I guess you and I have different opinions on what qualifies as "the money", then.
Kinda guessing Incontrol was the mod who warned Destiny.
Aw man I bet destinys TL account is gonna get banned... again? haha. Unfiltered needs to have more advertisements. I did not even know that they were live, until reading this thread.
Twitter, gotta show them sponsors like ITG. how is this show getting supported?
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
People entering e-sports? If by entering e-sports you mean people who make videos on youtube, stream casual play, or post on websites then most people probably don't do it for the money. If however you mean the people who actually run tournaments, foot the money for prize pools, host team websites, and spend countless hours planning events? Those people are doing that for money, as a job. Also? Those are the people who REALLY grow a community. The idea that e-sports is some fraternity of brotherhood where the common man rises up to spread the love of videogames in a climax of passion and an inevitable utopia of free content is a FANTASY. The people/organizations involved? Organizations like MLG? They are in this for money, and they have done FAR more for the growth of the gaming community than someone who made a few youtube videos FOR TEH COMMUNITY XD will ever do.
I guess you and I have different opinions on what qualifies as "the money", then.
Clearly we do. Maybe once you get out of highschool and actually have to work for a living you'll see why I have a different opinion on what qualifies as "the money".
On March 29 2013 08:32 th3_great wrote: 'is it really team liquids job to decide who we should or shouldn't watch?' thats a very interesting point of discussion.
TL protects us from people like combatex. I want them on that wall, i need them on that wall.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
This is why nice things can't happen. Just to touch on what you said; nobody goes into e-Sports for money.
What's it like living in your bubble? Because I'm down here in the real world where there are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists, hosts, streamers, players, managers, engineers, webdesigners, advertisers, and producers who are in e-sports SPECIFICALLY for the money. It is their JOB.
Seriously, grow up.
I was referring to entering e-Sports, not people/organisations involved. Don't be mad, though.
People entering e-sports? If by entering e-sports you mean people who make videos on youtube, stream casual play, or post on websites then most people probably don't do it for the money. If however you mean the people who actually run tournaments, foot the money for prize pools, host team websites, and spend countless hours planning events? Those people are doing that for money, as a job. Also? Those are the people who REALLY grow a community. The idea that e-sports is some fraternity of brotherhood where the common man rises up to spread the love of videogames in a climax of passion and an inevitable utopia of free content is a FANTASY. The people/organizations involved? Organizations like MLG? They are in this for money, and they have done FAR more for the growth of the gaming community than someone who made a few youtube videos FOR TEH COMMUNITY XD will ever do.
I guess you and I have different opinions on what qualifies as "the money", then.
Clearly we do. Maybe once you get out of highschool and actually have to work for a living you'll see why I have a different opinion on what qualifies as "the money".
I do and make a lot of money from it.
EDIT: And of course, I've already excluded all the MLG's of the world. I was referring to the majority of people, not the minority. There is money to be made in everything and anything in the world.
On March 29 2013 08:32 th3_great wrote: 'is it really team liquids job to decide who we should or shouldn't watch?' thats a very interesting point of discussion.
TL protects us from people like combatex. I want them on that wall, i need them on that wall.
I don't like djWHEAT. TL will put his show in a spotlight underneath the calendar when it comes on. I "protect" myself, by just... Not... Clicking on it.
Honestly, I think it's really ridiculous that people say Destiny promotes negativity and is toxic to a community. I was only ever moderately involved in the SC2 community, played a ton during the beta and then kinda left it while continuing to watch tournament streams when I became a fan of Destiny. I didn't become a fan of Destiny simply because he was the only guy on and I thought he was funny. I didn't become a fan because I thought he was any good. I just liked watching his stream because atleast once a day he invokes really intelligent discussion with his viewers. About philosophy, science, history something interesting and informative. Also a major part of his ideology is just be who you are. Figure out who you are, stop trying to be someone else and do what you're good at. Maybe you're not into intelligent conversation and would rather watch iNcontroL whip his hair back and forth and crack jokes about Incredible Miracle sounding like an overly dramatic movie based on an underdog story. That's fine. That's the difference between wanting to watch something like Adult Swim over a discovery channel special or something. I just think it's silly people would want to go out of their way to hate on someone who just speaks his mind, is entertaining and makes you think about something universal in life.
Disclaimer: I enjoy iNcontroL. He's probably the only EG player that I actually enjoyed to watch because his content was entertaining. I just value intelligent conversation more than pure comedic entertainment. Which would be almost impossible to deny destiny having, because of how many of these talk shows he's been on primarily for this purpose.
idk, I kind of went off on a rant, I just don't understand why all the hate for Destiny.
On March 29 2013 08:32 th3_great wrote: 'is it really team liquids job to decide who we should or shouldn't watch?' thats a very interesting point of discussion.
TL protects us from people like combatex. I want them on that wall, i need them on that wall.
I don't like djWHEAT. TL will put his show in a spotlight underneath the calendar when it comes on. I "protect" myself, by just... Not... Clicking on it.
Not so hard.
I think he's referring to the opposite end of the spectrum with the less well-established streamers where their entire streaming future relies on how much exposure that they receive. And for TL to take into their own hands to cherry-pick the arbitrarily decided "good" (spotlighted, highly promoted, etc etc.) or "bad" (Discouraged, highly promoted NEGATIVELY, etc etc)
I hate to critcise hardworking people like Chanman who are very symphatic, but basically everything he says just makes me think he is kinda stupid?
Like it should be pretty obivious that Blizzard will deifnitely not make a lan-client overnight if a tournmanet has connection-issues, due to the business model of Bnet 2.0.
On March 29 2013 08:32 th3_great wrote: 'is it really team liquids job to decide who we should or shouldn't watch?' thats a very interesting point of discussion.
TL protects us from people like combatex. I want them on that wall, i need them on that wall.
I don't like djWHEAT. TL will put his show in a spotlight underneath the calendar when it comes on. I "protect" myself, by just... Not... Clicking on it.
Not so hard.
I think he's referring to the opposite end of the spectrum with the less well-established streamers where their entire streaming future relies on how much exposure that they receive. And for TL to take into their own hands to cherry-pick the arbitrarily decided "good" (spotlighted, highly promoted, etc etc.) or "bad" (Discouraged, highly promoted NEGATIVELY, etc etc)
Of course, and that's very nice for them, but it is bad. Read up on monopolies.
Honestly, I was quite pleased with the show. I'd take it over ITG or any of those types. Hope it stays alive! Destiny just needs to quit LoL now!11!
And TL should actually feature the people who get <1k viewers. Other than a few KR streams, I'm almost always watching streams with less than 500 viewers.
On March 29 2013 08:52 Hider wrote: I hate to critcise hardworking people like Chanman who are very symphatic, but basically everything he says just makes me think he is kinda stupid?
Like it should be pretty obivious that Blizzard will deifnitely not make a lan-client overnight if a tournmanet has connection-issues, due to the business model of Bnet 2.0.
Wait he is 37? I thought he was like 22 lol.
i think hes just trying to make a discussion of it. the topics they talked about are pretty clear cut, but it wouldnt be a long show if they just said the facts and left it at that.
On March 29 2013 08:52 Hider wrote: I hate to critcise hardworking people like Chanman who are very symphatic, but basically everything he says just makes me think he is kinda stupid?
Like it should be pretty obivious that Blizzard will deifnitely not make a lan-client overnight if a tournmanet has connection-issues, due to the business model of Bnet 2.0.
Wait he is 37? I thought he was like 22 lol.
I think he was just a little under prepared to argue with destiny and play devil advocate on something destiny knows so well. Gotta cut the guy some slack, he does this on his off time and has a job and kids to take care of mainly.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
Hey, Chanman. It seems every time that you talk, it mutes Steven. Could you remove that option if possible for the next show? Since if Destiny is doing his "rant" and you talk or laugh at the same time, it mutes Destiny for a moment. Thanks!
Entertaining show, Chanman. Don't be afraid to interrupt Destiny during his rants though. Once he gets going it's hard for him to stop, lol. Will tune in next week!
On March 29 2013 09:01 th3_great wrote: i just hope TL gets the show featured for next time. its like they were saying, TL liking you can make or break your stream.
?
Chanman has been featured before on the sidebar. this whole thing seems to be last minute and not much notice given to viewers or tl.net. maybe chanman just didnt bother to notify tl.net of his show. he didnt even give us the url link in the op.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
The problem with your argumentation;
1) You provide no evidence that Destiny caused viewerships to decline further. 2) Instead, you basically just assume that because he made a critical post then people will stop watching the game. 3) One could actually have argued that increased drama creates increased attention/focus on Sc2 which could help deaccelerate the decline. IMO that theory is at least as valid as players being "afraid" to play Sc2 because its dying. 3) You could at leats have attempted to analyze whether the decline in viewerships further accelerated after the post. 4) Instead, you end up shitting on Destiny because he was "kinda" right on his prediction. Given that approach there is no way Destiny can ever be right. 5) I believe you are not in a position to evaluate Destinys argumentation biasless, and instead just hate on him due to his personality (why else would you mention racial slurs and drama history - that is totally irrelevant in this discussion).
On March 29 2013 08:59 Blargh wrote: @ACrow For the sake of this thread, can't you just PM him that stuff? They are way more likely to read it that way, too. Just a thought =/
Sorry, but I don't like being chastised in public and not be allowed to respond properly.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
Well said ACrow, I couldn't have said it any better!
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
The problem with your argumentation;
1) You provide no evidence that Destiny caused viewerships to decline further. 2) Instead, you basically just assume that because he made a critical post then people will stop watching the game. 3) One could actually have argued that increased drama creates increased attention/focus on Sc2 which could help deaccelerate the decline. IMO that theory is at least as valid as players being "afraid" to play Sc2 because its dying. 3) You could at leats have attempted to analyze whether the decline in viewerships further accelerated after the post. 4) Instead, you end up shitting on Destiny because he was "kinda" right on his prediction. Given that approach there is no way Destiny can ever be right. 5) I believe you are not in a position to evaluate Destinys argumentation biasless, and instead just hate on him due to his personality (why else would you mention racial slurs and drama history - that is totally irrelevant in this discussion).
you also have to remember that stream viewers did not shrink, every other esport just grew by comparison. sc2 did its growing in 2011. 2012 was the year of lol and dota 2.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
The problem with your argumentation;
1) You provide no evidence that Destiny caused viewerships to decline further. 2) Instead, you basically just assume that because he made a critical post then people will stop watching the game. 3) One could actually have argued that increased drama creates increased attention/focus on Sc2 which could help deaccelerate the decline. IMO that theory is at least as valid as players being "afraid" to play Sc2 because its dying. 3) You could at leats have attempted to analyze whether the decline in viewerships further accelerated after the post. 4) Instead, you end up shitting on Destiny because he was "kinda" right on his prediction. Given that approach there is no way Destiny can ever be right. 5) I believe you are not in a position to evaluate Destinys argumentation biasless, and instead just hate on him due to his personality (why else would you mention racial slurs and drama history - that is totally irrelevant in this discussion).
you also have to remember that stream viewers did not shrink, every other esport just grew by comparison. sc2 did its growing in 2011. 2012 was the year of lol and dota 2.
What do you mean have to remember? The entire point of Destinys article was that Sc2 was losing viewers to for instance LOL. Destiny tried to come up with a few solutions in order to grow sc2 viewerships. But obiviously the esports market size wasn't shrinking. I remember DJ What used that argument at ITG, which kinda demonstrated that he really had no idea what Destiny was talking about.
Because responding properly is doing it through a public thread instead of a direct PM. -cough-
Anyway, dunno if Chanman has had his stream up there before or not, but when I was trying to find it via TL, it was nowhere to be found. Had to google chanmanv and head to his stream that way. He should have linked his stream in OP!!!
As much as I find Destiny entertaining. The things he has said about SC2 and it's death especially before Hots...did rub a few people in this community the wrong way. SC2 is a dieing game etc...
People want to defend him. But IMO he said what he said and has done what he has done, and this is the result. It's not like people formed these opinions of him from hearsay. His actions, his consequences.
And I have seen his chat. What is easily moderated in other chats, is free to roam on his...racism especially.
On March 29 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote: See ? It was a good move, already 4 pages on a ChamanV thread.
That's true, at least it draws some much needed attention to an underappreciated pillar of our community. Chanman's such a hard worker, hopefully this results in more viewers for him! That being said though, I also say that I won't watch anything involving Destiny. Imo, [bold]he's proven that he doesn't give a shit about the game or our community[/bold] - he's done a lot of bad things for us, and he shouldn't try to come back.
How in the fuck do you get off saying such incredibly fucking stupid shit? You realize I've dumped more time into SC2 and SC2-related endeavors than pretty much every other person outside of the pro scene (and more-so than some people even involved in the pro scene today). You realize that I've played BW possibly since before you were even in fucking GRADE SCHOOL, right? How the fuck does someone like you get off saying some incredibly stupid shit like "he doesn't give a shit about our community?"
When I complain and say that no one in the industry gets paid, and you say I'm just crying wolf, guess what? YOU are the entitled little fucking piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about the community. YOU are the one that doesn't give a fuck that MLG volunteers, website writers, artists, designers, show-hosts, b-teamers, streamers without partnerships, and a whole lot of other people in e-sports don't get paid SHIT. You think that you can just sit there and armchair coach everyone else about everything, and then say I'm just "crying wolf" and "not giving a shit" because I think the fact that most people are unpaid or underpaid deserves attention?
Seriously, FUCK YOU.
User was warned for this post
Hi, I don't know how you got the idea I would disagree with the bolded part. I'm all for properly paid professionals. I must have missed that you were some leading proponent for that issue. Probably went unnoticed by me in between your profanities, racial slurs and all the drama you were involved in over the years. What I meant is the "SC2 is dying" thing you stirred up. You riled up a part of this community, frightened them, and shortly after left for LoL, which in my eyes made it insincere right from the start and made it look like all you wanted to accomplish is to take as much of your viewership as possible with you. The "SC2 is dying" nonsense plagued this community for a long while after you left, and I think at least partially was a cause for dropping viewer numbers (as in: self-fulfilling prophecy), which is what I meant with bad things you did for our community - you poisoned the climate. This is of course all my interpretation, other people's opinion may differ, and I'm just writing this because of your ad hominem attack, which I found rather unwarranted. Apologies @Chanman, I didn't want to derail this thread any further, but I couldn't leave this reply unanswered.
Destiny, it might suit you well to become more level-headed and take stuff not as personal. Maybe then people would take you as serious as you seem to demand from the community.
Oh btw, I'm ~6 years older than you, you were a little off with your grade school remark.
He didn't poison anything, he just exposed a lot of the obvious problems with SC2. How can you be poisoning something just by OBJECTIVELY pointing something out. Doesn't make sense.
PS: How can you call him out for taking things personally when LITERALLY the last line in your post is a personal attack on him, what the hell?
On March 29 2013 09:20 KingAce wrote: As much as I find Destiny entertaining. The things he has said about SC2 and it's death especially before Hots...did rub a few people in this community the wrong way. SC2 is a dieing game etc...
People want to defend him. But IMO he said what he said and has done what he has done, and this is the result. It's not like people formed these opinions of him from hearsay. His actions, his consequences.
And I have seen his chat. What is easily moderated in other chats, is free to roam on his...racism especially.
Please stop repeating this nonsense. Read the article instead and argue why he is wrong. Don't shoot the messenger if what he wrote happens to be the truth. If you don't think its the truth, then argue why.
I will approach the show with an open mind because I honestly believe that this pairing will make for an interesting show. I also like to watch all of chanmans shows when I can because he puts out a good product. Hopefully other people will do the same.
On March 29 2013 09:20 KingAce wrote: As much as I find Destiny entertaining. The things he has said about SC2 and it's death especially before Hots...did rub a few people in this community the wrong way. SC2 is a dieing game etc...
People want to defend him. But IMO he said what he said and has done what he has done, and this is the result. It's not like people formed these opinions of him from hearsay. His actions, his consequences.
And I have seen his chat. What is easily moderated in other chats, is free to roam on his...racism especially.
It's exactly like he said yesterday on stream - perception is reality, if people think, or that's how understood what he said ie "SC2 is dying", that's what he has said. It doesn't matter what he thought or what he wanted to say or how he wanted that to sound, it's just simply what he said. Nothing to be done about that now, just learn lesson from this and move on, and he knows that
On March 29 2013 09:20 KingAce wrote: As much as I find Destiny entertaining. The things he has said about SC2 and it's death especially before Hots...did rub a few people in this community the wrong way. SC2 is a dieing game etc...
People want to defend him. But IMO he said what he said and has done what he has done, and this is the result. It's not like people formed these opinions of him from hearsay. His actions, his consequences.
And I have seen his chat. What is easily moderated in other chats, is free to roam on his...racism especially.
It's exactly like he said yesterday on stream - perception is reality, if people think, or that's how understood what he said ie "SC2 is dying", that's what he has said. It doesn't matter what he thought or what he wanted to say or how he wanted that to sound, it's just simply what he said. Nothing to be done about that now, just learn lesson from this and move on, and he knows that
Yeh this is true, but some times stuff like this just annoys the crap out of me (that ppl can be so stupid and not bother to read/understand his actualy arguments/thought proces).
On March 29 2013 09:18 Blargh wrote: Because responding properly is doing it through a public thread instead of a direct PM. -cough-
Anyway, dunno if Chanman has had his stream up there before or not, but when I was trying to find it via TL, it was nowhere to be found. Had to google chanmanv and head to his stream that way. He should have linked his stream in OP!!!
Working with TL to possibly get the show listed next time. Also the OP is a work in progress. You'll see the graphics and info come together soon. I just added the link to my stream in the OP.
what are all you guys on about? C'mon, lets all watch the shows with the guy who tried to ruin sc2 to get as many viewers as possible with him to LoL. I mean, he is just the possible killer of many sponsorship deals with his trending on tweeter. Nothing wrong with damaging a fragile franchise in esport, right?????
Destiny has a history of embarrassing himself by how much of a screwed up piece of shit he can be, and he also has a history of saying some goddamn spot-on things that everyone could gain by listening to. This was a great move by Chanman to get more exposure for good or bad, and I will definitely be checking this out.
I enjoyed the show. I was a little confused by the format though. The majority of it seemed like an interview with Destiny. I guess that was the intention? But it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. I'm not familiar with Chanman and after the show I still feel like I know very little about him. Clearly he has some fans in this thread so I think it would have been cool if he'd gotten a bit more of an introduction. That said, Chan did a good job asking questions and Destiny did a good job answering them with the appropriate amount of depth. Would watch again, 4/5 stars.
Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's cool that half of the people in this thread basically just post to talk shit about Destiny. If you want to have a good community, don't be a total prick to people, regardless of whether you like them or not. Srsly.
On March 29 2013 09:31 Hardigan wrote: what are all you guys on about? C'mon, lets all watch the shows with the guy who tried to ruin sc2 to get as many viewers as possible with him to LoL. I mean, he is just the possible killer of many sponsorship deals with his trending on tweeter. Nothing wrong with damaging a fragile franchise in esport, right?????
That makes no sense. A lot of people who watch Destiny watch other streams as well. Him switching to LoL is unlikely to cause them to suddenly stop being fans of SC2.
Also, the idea that he "tried to ruin sc2" at all is just stupid sensationalism.
On March 29 2013 09:31 Hardigan wrote: what are all you guys on about? C'mon, lets all watch the shows with the guy who tried to ruin sc2 to get as many viewers as possible with him to LoL. I mean, he is just the possible killer of many sponsorship deals with his trending on tweeter. Nothing wrong with damaging a fragile franchise in esport, right?????
That makes no sense. A lot of people who watch Destiny watch other streams as well. Him switching to LoL is unlikely to cause them to suddenly stop being fans of SC2.
Also, the idea that he "tried to ruin sc2" at all is just stupid sensationalism.
ofc it is exaggerated, but his post about sc2 dying was stupid sensationalism aswell. ofc he did point out some things that went wrong with sc2, but most of it was only blahblah to get attention. btw: i dont dislike destiny at all, but this drama was just unnecessary
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
On March 29 2013 09:31 Hardigan wrote: what are all you guys on about? C'mon, lets all watch the shows with the guy who tried to ruin sc2 to get as many viewers as possible with him to LoL. I mean, he is just the possible killer of many sponsorship deals with his trending on tweeter. Nothing wrong with damaging a fragile franchise in esport, right?????
That makes no sense. A lot of people who watch Destiny watch other streams as well. Him switching to LoL is unlikely to cause them to suddenly stop being fans of SC2.
Also, the idea that he "tried to ruin sc2" at all is just stupid sensationalism.
ofc it is exaggerated, but his post about sc2 dying was stupid sensationalism aswell. ofc he did point out some things that went wrong with sc2, but most of it was only blahblah to get attention. btw: i dont dislike destiny at all, but this drama was just unnecessary
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I have to echo this sentiment. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was Destiny's temper-tantrum on Inside the game. I can't take anything he says seriously because apparently if he encounters resistance he wants to take his ball and go home while calling the dissent names over his shoulder.
I'll avoid anything Destiny is attached to like the plague when possible.
On March 29 2013 09:44 Blargh wrote: It's cool that half of the people in this thread basically just post to talk shit about Destiny. If you want to have a good community, don't be a total prick to people, regardless of whether you like them or not. Srsly.
There are plenty of "legitimate" reasons to not like Destiny (personally I like him), since it's obviously a matter of taste/opinion. But it's pretty ridiculous how any thread relating to Destiny inevitably will have a bunch of people show up just to be like "Hi, just want to say I hate Destiny. Kthx bye." It contributes nothing other than baiting the Destiny fans into the same flamewars that have played out 100 times already in countless other threads. I'm sure there's plenty of Idra haters, Incontrol haters, etc that do the same shit. Really if you don't like someone, just don't watch them. It's not that hard.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I have to echo this sentiment. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was Destiny's temper-tantrum on Inside the game. I can't take anything he says seriously because apparently if he encounters resistance he wants to take his ball and go home while calling the dissent names over his shoulder.
I'll avoid anything Destiny is attached to like the plague when possible.
As much as I like Inside the Game, the EG hosts/DJWheat were acting very childishly (on their own show) throughout their segment with Destiny in this episode (cue Incontrol's payrise) . You've cherry picked the moment Destiny acts immaturely and left out the host's behaviour.
Edit: Also, I don't know where you get the last part from except from the one ItG segment. If you've ever watched his streams/discussions with others, he's usually very good at making an argument and counter-arguments.
Looks interesting will definitely watch. Destiny's SC2 is dead post would have been spot on if HOTS didn't deliver... so I don't hate on him there, he was speaking the truth at the time.
On March 29 2013 10:36 Pufftrees wrote: Looks interesting will definitely watch. Destiny's SC2 is dead post would have been spot on if HOTS didn't deliver... so I don't hate on him there, he was speaking the truth at the time.
GL
HOTS didn't truly deliever. It helped, but not enough. Fundenmentally what Destiny wanted was a busines model change and a completely different atmosphere. Just getting unranked play in there won't make sc2 a casual's paradise. Not saying getting the new business model correct is easy, and Blizzard certainly doesn't have skilled enough employees to implement such a thing (Activision might have though). Therefore the best thing blizzard could do is hire MBA guys to figure out ways to improve the business models.
On March 29 2013 08:58 wraithy wrote: Hey, Chanman. It seems every time that you talk, it mutes Steven. Could you remove that option if possible for the next show? Since if Destiny is doing his "rant" and you talk or laugh at the same time, it mutes Destiny for a moment. Thanks!
oh wow ... I'll see what we can do about that next show. thanks.
it was a really good show. Would like to see more of your opinions though and more dialog between you guys. As much as i like Steven i don't think that weekly Destiny interview formula is the best.
Or maybe try to bring someone else on the show from outside of Steven circles to make it more like a discussion and not a mono destiny rant on different topics.
Steven has got a really strong personality and it takes another alpha to challenge him.
Best of luck in the future!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note on TL moderation: Incontrol post in this thread as in many cases was immature and i've seen many cases of warnings/bans for "lol" comment. Please be consistent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note to Geoff: You make it hard to love you
On March 29 2013 11:21 halomac wrote: Hey ChanmanV,
it was a really good show. Would like to see more of your opinions though and more dialog between you guys. As much as i like Steven i don't think that weekly Destiny interview formula is the best.
Or maybe try to bring someone else on the show from outside of Steven circles to make it more like a discussion and not a mono destiny rant on different topics.
Steven has got a really strong personality and it takes another alpha to challenge him.
Best of luck in the future!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note on TL moderation: Incontrol post in this thread as in many cases was immature and i've seen many cases of warnings/bans for "lol" comment. Please be consistent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note to Geoff: You make it hard to love you
Ok I've got a problem with posts like these. TL is a private forum. They allow anyone to sign up for it, and try to be as PC as possible, but they have every right to be biased to specific users for whatever reason. If you do not like this don't use their forum.
That brings me to Steven talking about the streamer list. Is it biased? Yes, but they have never claimed to be otherwise.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I have to echo this sentiment. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was Destiny's temper-tantrum on Inside the game. I can't take anything he says seriously because apparently if he encounters resistance he wants to take his ball and go home while calling the dissent names over his shoulder.
I'll avoid anything Destiny is attached to like the plague when possible.
As much as I like Inside the Game, the EG hosts/DJWheat were acting very childishly (on their own show) throughout their segment with Destiny in this episode (cue Incontrol's payrise) . You've cherry picked the moment Destiny acts immaturely and left out the host's behaviour.
Edit: Also, I don't know where you get the last part from except from the one ItG segment. If you've ever watched his streams/discussions with others, he's usually very good at making an argument and counter-arguments.
I've seen some of Destiny's discussions, and he's really not very good at making arguments or debating subjects. He's basically like anyone with a big personality and an opinion, meaning he's good at directing the conversation to points that are in his favour and sticking with those points. It's what more aggressive (as opposed to passive, not angry) personalities do when they're argumentative, they'll sidestep issues they can't counter with phrases like "That's not the point" or "Well, what about..."
The ItG episode basically just showed that absolutely none of those people are good at structured debate...DJWheat, InControl and Destiny are all just good at pushing their personal opinions, Idra at best can play devil's advocate with his quips, and Painuser is too passive and is too easily sidetracked away from the point.
Which is fine if you just want a talk-show format, but terrible if you want a constructive dialogue.
On March 29 2013 11:53 Epamynondas wrote: But he never said TL itself was bad? It's just the lack of options that is.
Your talking about my streaming list bit?
I won't guess as to Stevens opinion of TL as a whole, it doesn't matter to me.
His talk about TL's streaming list however I don't agree with. The options are being limited on purpose because TL does not support them. Another example of this is how only TL member LoL streams are displayed rather than all of them.
edit: I wanna make clear I agree with like 90% of what Steven said this show, I just don't agree about the stream list. I think his ideas are very well based in logic. I wish he could present them in a better fashion so that certain people won't immediately shut out anything he says with "well he's a racist bigot" or the usual.
I actually think his recent language is fine for the majority of the audience he wants. I just hope he watches how invested he becomes in some arguments because the tone of his voice and speech pattern get a sort of superiority air to them that I think he could easily avoid if he realized it was happening.
I was gonna make a post about how this show seems "pretty cool" after watching about half of it, but after watching the entire thing I'm REALLY pumped for the next episode! Good shit.
This show was good, destiny as a lightning rod has gained you all the exposure you needed as well. Genius.
I'm not sure where it will go from here, I have a hard time seeing where else you and destiny can go now that the interviewish content has been expended. Hopefully future guests will give the show a direction.
But I have faith; your shows are quality. And though you represent yourself as the sort of beta, polite, PC guy, you know full well what you've unleashed here and I hope you do well.
Destiny was so right about the majority of SC2 Korean streamers. It's too bad most people are limited in watching some of the BW afreeca streams, some of those guys get how to market themselves and provide an entertaining experience. I got a lot of respect for Dragon and Violet (those 2 off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others) for doing their best to reach out to the western audience.
On March 29 2013 10:36 Pufftrees wrote: Looks interesting will definitely watch. Destiny's SC2 is dead post would have been spot on if HOTS didn't deliver... so I don't hate on him there, he was speaking the truth at the time.
GL
Well I didn't buy HotS and don't know when I will, so to me HotS didn't deliver. And just by looking at polls on this forums many people chose to not buy HotS
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
If you will express extreme opinion then prepare to get extreme responses from a lot of people that think you are wrong. Destiny did it and he has to except all of it.
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
Problem is that noone/barely any who shits on Destiny does it because they actually think he is wrong. I haven't read a single post where someone step by step tried to argue why Destiny's theory consisted of logical fallcies. Instead, people just dislike the message and decides to shit on him.
You can just read this thread. Every time someone has shitted on Destiny I have politely asked them why they believed he was wrong. I have received 0 responses.
This is like if someone back in 2006 predicted the financial crisis. People wouldn't like his message (oh no my house will deteriate in value which is comparable to Oh no my favourite hobby will "die"), and they would choose to attack his personality rather than his actual arguments.
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
not really sure what you mean by image, but i was referring to the persona he displays in public.
On March 29 2013 11:53 Epamynondas wrote: But he never said TL itself was bad? It's just the lack of options that is.
His talk about TL's streaming list however I don't agree with. The options are being limited on purpose because TL does not support them. Another example of this is how only TL member LoL streams are displayed rather than all of them.
I don't think I see how this disagrees with what Destiny said. I'm pretty sure that the point is not that Team Liquid is wrong in not featuring people they don't like, but the fact that this website is basically the ONLY place for foreign starcraft fans to be on certainly hurts variety on the community.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
So you basically want to throw hate, but refuse to discuss your points. Destructive to the community? How about the people like you who likely contact sponsors based on benign complaints and try to white-knight the community while destroying it in the process? Want to produce your own high quality content for the community? Go ahead. But keep your negativity to yourself. That is what is, in truth, killing e-sports.
So much good discussion, and so many facepalm-inducing comments. Funny, Destiny still hasn't outgrown his apples to oranges comparisons; MLG and IPL streaming 24/7 has absolutely nothing to do with over-saturation in terms of major weekend events running for weeks and months in a row. Those are so completely different, these nitpicky comments are just... I don't... how... Anyways, while Blizzard has hurt the tournament scene by not releasing LAN publicly, they're genuinely interested in helping out the scene as best as they can within their limits, which isn't at all unreasonable for a major business to do. We all hate DRM, but really, we're at the point where you need some serious comprehension help if you don't get why Blizzard felt it was in their best interest to do it like this. And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
On March 30 2013 03:40 Areon wrote: And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
I don't think he was telling people what they can and can't do. He was giving his opinions on what makes a streamer successful and he was just saying that creating expectations that aren't met tends to lead to generating haters. Also he has defended Incontrol against the haters on his stream and said that Incontrol is a funny and entertaining streamer, despite their history of heated disagreements.
Didn't Destiny write quite a lengthy article about the state of the game before switching to LoL? Didn't Blizzard pretty much address all the problems he raised? Was it right for him to leave if he was correct? Is he right to come back because he was correct? Is talking in questions a really bad way to write? Are the haters blind to logic?
Answer to all questions is yes, if you were wondering. :D
On March 30 2013 03:40 Areon wrote: So much good discussion, and so many facepalm-inducing comments. Funny, Destiny still hasn't outgrown his apples to oranges comparisons; MLG and IPL streaming 24/7 has absolutely nothing to do with over-saturation in terms of major weekend events running for weeks and months in a row. Those are so completely different, these nitpicky comments are just... I don't... how... Anyways, while Blizzard has hurt the tournament scene by not releasing LAN publicly, they're genuinely interested in helping out the scene as best as they can within their limits, which isn't at all unreasonable for a major business to do. We all hate DRM, but really, we're at the point where you need some serious comprehension help if you don't get why Blizzard felt it was in their best interest to do it like this. And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
What are you talking about? He never told Incontrol what he can or can't do. He just said that if he'd marketed himself differently, he'd get less haters and maybe be more successful.
I'm gonna watch because Steven knows his shit. It's about streaming and how to make good money with it. Destiny as an independent player who built up everything he had by himself is probably better suited than anyone else. And that's what this is about. Not about the retarded gang provocation that was that horrible ITG episode.
Well, I think as long as Destiny doesn't pull out something random out of his ass like he did with the whole "SC2 is dying" crap then I think this show could have potential. First episode was okay. Always room for improvement.
On March 30 2013 03:40 Areon wrote: So much good discussion, and so many facepalm-inducing comments. Funny, Destiny still hasn't outgrown his apples to oranges comparisons; MLG and IPL streaming 24/7 has absolutely nothing to do with over-saturation in terms of major weekend events running for weeks and months in a row. Those are so completely different, these nitpicky comments are just... I don't... how... Anyways, while Blizzard has hurt the tournament scene by not releasing LAN publicly, they're genuinely interested in helping out the scene as best as they can within their limits, which isn't at all unreasonable for a major business to do. We all hate DRM, but really, we're at the point where you need some serious comprehension help if you don't get why Blizzard felt it was in their best interest to do it like this. And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
What are you talking about? He never told Incontrol what he can or can't do. He just said that if he'd marketed himself differently, he'd get less haters and maybe be more successful.
To be frank, any player trying to give incontrol advice about self-marketing should probably think better of it.
On March 30 2013 03:40 Areon wrote: So much good discussion, and so many facepalm-inducing comments. Funny, Destiny still hasn't outgrown his apples to oranges comparisons; MLG and IPL streaming 24/7 has absolutely nothing to do with over-saturation in terms of major weekend events running for weeks and months in a row. Those are so completely different, these nitpicky comments are just... I don't... how... Anyways, while Blizzard has hurt the tournament scene by not releasing LAN publicly, they're genuinely interested in helping out the scene as best as they can within their limits, which isn't at all unreasonable for a major business to do. We all hate DRM, but really, we're at the point where you need some serious comprehension help if you don't get why Blizzard felt it was in their best interest to do it like this. And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
What are you talking about? He never told Incontrol what he can or can't do. He just said that if he'd marketed himself differently, he'd get less haters and maybe be more successful.
To be frank, any player trying to give incontrol advice about self-marketing should probably think better of it.
He's not giving him advice. He's talking about streaming and what people can do to be more successful at streaming. He used Incontrol as an example, just as he used Athene as an example.
I'm going to watch this show, it'll be great to have Destiny back. By the way, the people who you guys call "Destiny fans" are fans of SC2 who happen to like Destiny to. And all the generalizations about his "fanbase" are pretty rediculous, I would bet most of them are STILL SC2 fans whether Destiny is in the scene or not. Now for all the "important people opinions," its just going to be unfair, Destiny is a very logical person, despite his sometimes erratic behavior, but no matter how logical his opinion is, a big community figure white knighting auto wins an argument because he is considered "legitimate". There is definitely an epidemic of Elitism in the community.
Finally finished the episode. Good stuff overall. I thought that Destiny interrupted Chanman a bit too much sometimes, but other than that, no complaints.
On March 30 2013 12:17 Beatmania wrote: Didn't Destiny write quite a lengthy article about the state of the game before switching to LoL? Didn't Blizzard pretty much address all the problems he raised? Was it right for him to leave if he was correct? Is he right to come back because he was correct? Is talking in questions a really bad way to write? Are the haters blind to logic?
Answer to all questions is yes, if you were wondering. :D
Actually they didn't dress the fundenemntal problem. Destinys POV is more nuanced than most people realize. What Destiny wants is a change in business model as Blizzard needs to be able to monetize the game better --> Which means they can devote further ressources into developing the game faster (like with better monetizing we would have gotton much of the stuff HOTS gave us alot faster). In the ITG episode Idra was actually the only one who seemed to have a decent grasp of Destinys POV (for the most part). However he argued that there was just no way Blizzard could implement things faster as sc2 was too small of a priority. But with a change of business model, Blizzard would be much more incentivized to get things done faster.
On March 31 2013 17:32 GolemMadness wrote: Finally finished the episode. Good stuff overall. I thought that Destiny interrupted Chanman a bit too much sometimes, but other than that, no complaints.
Yeh, Destiny needs to cool down a bit some times, espeically if they bring in a 3rd guy next week (to create more discussion).
On March 31 2013 02:43 Disengaged wrote: Well, I think as long as Destiny doesn't pull out something random out of his ass like he did with the whole "SC2 is dying" crap then I think this show could have potential. First episode was okay. Always room for improvement.
Pulled out of his ass? He did write a long article. If you think he is wrong, then please specificy why his arguments aren't valid.
Unfiltered #2 this Thursday 6pm EST. Destiny and I will be talking about the details of the Blizzard announcement tonight and details of computer parts we recommend you get for your gaming/streaming rig (CPU/Video Card/Cam/Mic/etc). Feel free to tell us your recommendations too!
On March 30 2013 12:17 Beatmania wrote: Didn't Destiny write quite a lengthy article about the state of the game before switching to LoL? Didn't Blizzard pretty much address all the problems he raised? Was it right for him to leave if he was correct? Is he right to come back because he was correct? Is talking in questions a really bad way to write? Are the haters blind to logic?
Answer to all questions is yes, if you were wondering. :D
Actually they didn't dress the fundenemntal problem. Destinys POV is more nuanced than most people realize. What Destiny wants is a change in business model as Blizzard needs to be able to monetize the game better --> Which means they can devote further ressources into developing the game faster (like with better monetizing we would have gotton much of the stuff HOTS gave us alot faster). In the ITG episode Idra was actually the only one who seemed to have a decent grasp of Destinys POV (for the most part). However he argued that there was just no way Blizzard could implement things faster as sc2 was too small of a priority. But with a change of business model, Blizzard would be much more incentivized to get things done faster.
On March 31 2013 17:32 GolemMadness wrote: Finally finished the episode. Good stuff overall. I thought that Destiny interrupted Chanman a bit too much sometimes, but other than that, no complaints.
Yeh, Destiny needs to cool down a bit some times, espeically if they bring in a 3rd guy next week (to create more discussion).
On March 31 2013 02:43 Disengaged wrote: Well, I think as long as Destiny doesn't pull out something random out of his ass like he did with the whole "SC2 is dying" crap then I think this show could have potential. First episode was okay. Always room for improvement.
Pulled out of his ass? He did write a long article. If you think he is wrong, then please specificy why his arguments aren't valid.
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
On the topic of this show, I don't know how it is going to work. Destiny is known to have strong opinions, but that isn't bad since he has had intelligent opinions in many cases. I think that so long as everything pans out well and no real drama pops up, it will be a good show, though I probably won't watch it.
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
Tell me which part of his thesis was incorrect (please look at his actual arguments).
Also, "didn't pan out" makes no sense as his time horizont was 2 years. (he actually predicted viewers would increase after HOTS was released).
This is the problem with all the Destiny-haters. Either they haven't actually taken the time to read it, or they didn't understand it. The only thing I believe we can criticise him for, is not comming up with some kind of definition for what he implies by "death". (as somet people apparently takes that as a sign noone will play it). He probably implies by "death" that the scene will be like 2-4 times smaller 2 years from now than it was in the end of WOL (or something like that).
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
Tell me which part of his thesis was incorrect (please look at his actual arguments).
Also, "didn't pan out" makes no sense as his time horizont was 2 years. (he actually predicted viewers would increase after HOTS was released).
This is the problem with all the Destiny-haters. Either they haven't actually taken the time to read it, or they didn't understand it. The only thing I believe we can criticise him for, is not comming up with some kind of definition for what he implies by "death". (as somet people apparently takes that as a sign noone will play it). He probably implies by "death" that the scene will be like 2-4 times smaller 2 years from now than it was in the end of WOL (or something like that).
I've actually done that. Just because his horizon is 2 years does not mean that he can just make it so. He gives no reason for that. Furthermore, it's hard to take it seriously when he has lines that are meant to parody the community in an incredibly offensive manner. It has been said before, he caters to a less competitive community that enjoy watching him, this means that his view is going to be something that wants to grow that; i.e. bunker wars games, custom games in general, achievements. On TL, the site tends to cater to competitive people, and in general I can't think of an enormous non-competitive factor that kept BW alive. It has been said before that it isn't that he is necessarily wrong, but he is going to be biased towards the community he wants to see grow. I personally also just think that a major reason why his argument is even considered is because of his standing in the community; I see more of his supporters shouting down people that have reasonable issues with his argument's frame, not just the fact he doesn't define what death is, rather than people just randomly criticising his argument here. That is just the way I see it, I understand if we have differing opinions about this.
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
Tell me which part of his thesis was incorrect (please look at his actual arguments).
Also, "didn't pan out" makes no sense as his time horizont was 2 years. (he actually predicted viewers would increase after HOTS was released).
This is the problem with all the Destiny-haters. Either they haven't actually taken the time to read it, or they didn't understand it. The only thing I believe we can criticise him for, is not comming up with some kind of definition for what he implies by "death". (as somet people apparently takes that as a sign noone will play it). He probably implies by "death" that the scene will be like 2-4 times smaller 2 years from now than it was in the end of WOL (or something like that).
I've actually done that. Just because his horizon is 2 years does not mean that he can just make it so. He gives no reason for that. Furthermore, it's hard to take it seriously when he has lines that are meant to parody the community in an incredibly offensive manner. It has been said before, he caters to a less competitive community that enjoy watching him, this means that his view is going to be something that wants to grow that; i.e. bunker wars games, custom games in general, achievements. On TL, the site tends to cater to competitive people, and in general I can't think of an enormous non-competitive factor that kept BW alive. It has been said before that it isn't that he is necessarily wrong, but he is going to be biased towards the community he wants to see grow. I personally also just think that a major reason why his argument is even considered is because of his standing in the community; I see more of his supporters shouting down people that have reasonable issues with his argument's frame, not just the fact he doesn't define what death is, rather than people just randomly criticising his argument here. That is just the way I see it, I understand if we have differing opinions about this.
He gives no reason for the exact time horizont. Correct. But whether its 1.5 years, 2.5 yers or 3 years isn't that important (it's really not the essense of the article). That doesn't mean you can't disagree with his timeline and think he is wrong in that regard, but if that is the only thing you took away from the article, you missed the point. The important thing to take away from his article is that Blizzard needs to change its business model to make the game more appealing to casuals, which will have the effect of boosting Sc2 as an esports. If blizard doesn't do that, Sc2 will eventually "die" as an esport. Sure he could expressed him self in a less drastic way, however the response he gets from all the haters is absolutely ridcilous. I can't believe Destiny-haters just can't analyze his arguments/thought proces and argue were he goes wrong in order to end up with the conlcusion, instead of just blindly shitting on him.
Anyway if you have actually analyzed his arguments (and you are sure you actually understand the essense of the article), please link me to that.
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
Tell me which part of his thesis was incorrect (please look at his actual arguments).
Also, "didn't pan out" makes no sense as his time horizont was 2 years. (he actually predicted viewers would increase after HOTS was released).
This is the problem with all the Destiny-haters. Either they haven't actually taken the time to read it, or they didn't understand it. The only thing I believe we can criticise him for, is not comming up with some kind of definition for what he implies by "death". (as somet people apparently takes that as a sign noone will play it). He probably implies by "death" that the scene will be like 2-4 times smaller 2 years from now than it was in the end of WOL (or something like that).
I've actually done that. Just because his horizon is 2 years does not mean that he can just make it so. He gives no reason for that. Furthermore, it's hard to take it seriously when he has lines that are meant to parody the community in an incredibly offensive manner. It has been said before, he caters to a less competitive community that enjoy watching him, this means that his view is going to be something that wants to grow that; i.e. bunker wars games, custom games in general, achievements. On TL, the site tends to cater to competitive people, and in general I can't think of an enormous non-competitive factor that kept BW alive. It has been said before that it isn't that he is necessarily wrong, but he is going to be biased towards the community he wants to see grow. I personally also just think that a major reason why his argument is even considered is because of his standing in the community; I see more of his supporters shouting down people that have reasonable issues with his argument's frame, not just the fact he doesn't define what death is, rather than people just randomly criticising his argument here. That is just the way I see it, I understand if we have differing opinions about this.
He gives no reason for the exact time horizont. Correct. But whether its 1.5 years, 2.5 yers or 3 years isn't that important (it's really not the essense of the article). That doesn't mean you can't disagree with his timeline and think he is wrong in that regard, but if that is the only thing you took away from the article, you missed the point. The important thing to take away from his article is that Blizzard needs to change its business model to make the game more appealing to casuals, which will have the effect of boosting Sc2 as an esports. If blizard doesn't do that, Sc2 will eventually "die" as an esport. Sure he could expressed him self in a less drastic way, however the response he gets from all the haters is absolutely ridcilous. I can't believe Destiny-haters just can't analyze his arguments/thought proces and argue were he goes wrong in order to end up with the conlcusion, instead of just blindly shitting on him.
Anyway if you have actually analyzed his arguments (and you are sure you actually understand the essense of the article), please link me to that.
Just re-read through Destiny's post. You are pretty accurate, Destiny does not declare SC2 dead, he doesn't even guarantee it will be dead by LOTV. He states that Blizzard must make changes, they are the focal point that needs to be fixed, OR then SC2 will die. In logical terms, if Blizzard does not change its approach, then Starcraft will see a massive drop in Esports popularity.
It doesn't even feel like he's making a definitive argument to it dying or not dying, hes arguing that only Blizzard can save it. His title directly states that the survival of the game relies far more on Blizzard than upon the community's involvement. The closest thing Destiny comes to stating something about true doom is when he says that a big "nail of the coffin" is the lack of lasting growth after the first week of the Hots beta and comparing it to the Brood War growth. However, his argument comparing the Hots beta with Brood War makes no sense at all. The conditions for the two are completely different, there was already an established tournament scene for WoL, Brood War had nowhere to go but up.
And can you honestly tell me that currently Blizzard isn't attempting to inject new life into the game and make it more accessible for non-competitive players?
- More ways to get achievements - Customizable decals or skins for units - Paid/unpaid name change - Fix the cluster that is "The Arcade"
These were the four things Destiny listed as suggestions for Blizzard as things to implement for Blizzard(I deleted his extraneous parenthesized mentions, they don't add anything except profanity.)
Let's have a look through each of these suggestions.
The first suggestion seems like there has been headway made, there are extra achievements based particularly on the leveling system that was introduced and other things.
The second suggestion is there, and in fact there are a number of people complaining about disabling the skins because it confuses them. We know the second exists.
The third suggestion is not present to my knowledge, they whiffed on this in Destiny's eyes.
The fourth suggestion feels at worst partially done. There's is a full tab for the arcade on the main screen, spotlighting certain games, more options to navigate to games that you want. It probably isn't fully done, certain maps at the top still dominate everything else.
So headway has been made on three of these four, and one of them is pretty much nailed. Therefore, even if SC2 is dead by LOTV, Destiny will still be wrong and have missed the mark on his argument.
Maybe because his premise was wrong. His thesis didn't pan out. Top that off with the fact that SC2 isn't dying, and that would allow us to conclude that maybe he jumped the gun a little bit.
Tell me which part of his thesis was incorrect (please look at his actual arguments).
Also, "didn't pan out" makes no sense as his time horizont was 2 years. (he actually predicted viewers would increase after HOTS was released).
This is the problem with all the Destiny-haters. Either they haven't actually taken the time to read it, or they didn't understand it. The only thing I believe we can criticise him for, is not comming up with some kind of definition for what he implies by "death". (as somet people apparently takes that as a sign noone will play it). He probably implies by "death" that the scene will be like 2-4 times smaller 2 years from now than it was in the end of WOL (or something like that).
I've actually done that. Just because his horizon is 2 years does not mean that he can just make it so. He gives no reason for that. Furthermore, it's hard to take it seriously when he has lines that are meant to parody the community in an incredibly offensive manner. It has been said before, he caters to a less competitive community that enjoy watching him, this means that his view is going to be something that wants to grow that; i.e. bunker wars games, custom games in general, achievements. On TL, the site tends to cater to competitive people, and in general I can't think of an enormous non-competitive factor that kept BW alive. It has been said before that it isn't that he is necessarily wrong, but he is going to be biased towards the community he wants to see grow. I personally also just think that a major reason why his argument is even considered is because of his standing in the community; I see more of his supporters shouting down people that have reasonable issues with his argument's frame, not just the fact he doesn't define what death is, rather than people just randomly criticising his argument here. That is just the way I see it, I understand if we have differing opinions about this.
He gives no reason for the exact time horizont. Correct. But whether its 1.5 years, 2.5 yers or 3 years isn't that important (it's really not the essense of the article). That doesn't mean you can't disagree with his timeline and think he is wrong in that regard, but if that is the only thing you took away from the article, you missed the point. The important thing to take away from his article is that Blizzard needs to change its business model to make the game more appealing to casuals, which will have the effect of boosting Sc2 as an esports. If blizard doesn't do that, Sc2 will eventually "die" as an esport. Sure he could expressed him self in a less drastic way, however the response he gets from all the haters is absolutely ridcilous. I can't believe Destiny-haters just can't analyze his arguments/thought proces and argue were he goes wrong in order to end up with the conlcusion, instead of just blindly shitting on him.
Anyway if you have actually analyzed his arguments (and you are sure you actually understand the essense of the article), please link me to that.
Just re-read through Destiny's post. You are pretty accurate, Destiny does not declare SC2 dead, he doesn't even guarantee it will be dead by LOTV. He states that Blizzard must make changes, they are the focal point that needs to be fixed, OR then SC2 will die. In logical terms, if Blizzard does not change its approach, then Starcraft will see a massive drop in Esports popularity.
It doesn't even feel like he's making a definitive argument to it dying or not dying, hes arguing that only Blizzard can save it. His title directly states that the survival of the game relies far more on Blizzard than upon the community's involvement. The closest thing Destiny comes to stating something about true doom is when he says that a big "nail of the coffin" is the lack of lasting growth after the first week of the Hots beta and comparing it to the Brood War growth. However, his argument comparing the Hots beta with Brood War makes no sense at all. The conditions for the two are completely different, there was already an established tournament scene for WoL, Brood War had nowhere to go but up.
And can you honestly tell me that currently Blizzard isn't attempting to inject new life into the game and make it more accessible for non-competitive players?
- More ways to get achievements - Customizable decals or skins for units - Paid/unpaid name change - Fix the cluster that is "The Arcade"
These were the four things Destiny listed as suggestions for Blizzard as things to implement for Blizzard(I deleted his extraneous parenthesized mentions, they don't add anything except profanity.)
Let's have a look through each of these suggestions.
The first suggestion seems like there has been headway made, there are extra achievements based particularly on the leveling system that was introduced and other things.
The second suggestion is there, and in fact there are a number of people complaining about disabling the skins because it confuses them. We know the second exists.
The third suggestion is not present to my knowledge, they whiffed on this in Destiny's eyes.
The fourth suggestion feels at worst partially done. There's is a full tab for the arcade on the main screen, spotlighting certain games, more options to navigate to games that you want. It probably isn't fully done, certain maps at the top still dominate everything else.
So headway has been made on three of these four, and one of them is pretty much nailed. Therefore, even if SC2 is dead by LOTV, Destiny will still be wrong and have missed the mark on his argument.
I also do not think the BW comparison was relevant, because as you point out the time was completely diferent and in order to use BW in that article we need analyze a lot of factors. But quite frankly, the BW part wasn't really relevant in order to understand his message.
I am glad that you are trying to analyze his arguments, but I still think you are slightly off in your criticism. First of all, I don't think Destiny (while presenting these arguments) intented to anything else but just give a bit of inspiration (show potential solutions). I think me nor Destiny or at lot of the more competitive gamers here at TL understands the motivations of casual gamers 100%. So Destiny would probably be willing to admit that some of his specific won't solve anything/have flaws (just reread the article, he actually states that these suggestions were just on top of his head, so please do not put to much emphasize on this). Rather, I think he just points to some of the problems which casual players will run into, but I don't think its fair to invalidate Destinys point by arguing that Blizzard is already implementing archievments, improving arcade etc.
But Destiny looks at this on a bigger perspective; Why has it taken so long for Blizzard to fix this stuff? And how will can we ever get more casuals to play the game without fearing ladder anxeity. Yeh obiviously unranked games etc. are improvements, however they won't fix the fundenmental problem. Instead, Destiny believes Blizzard needs to change the business model in order to monetize casual players better (and in return give them more stuff they want).
Thats basically Destinys thought proces and in my opinion that makes 100% sense. Personally I think most of us (incl. Destiny) aren't in a position to suggest how exactly the new business model should look like. My take on this is just that Blizzard needs to hire more MBA guys who should be able to study the market, the target group (casuals), perform interviews, crush numbers and come up with a solution.
EDIT; Regarding the business model change. Destiny talks abit about it here;
Watched you guys first episode, and i'll start out by saying I was a bit worried about the whole premise when I saw it. Mind you this is without having really watched anything related to Steven in some time.
I will say I was pleased with the overall presentation, and surprised at how much Steven's attitude has altered since I last saw him doing much of anything. For Steven I'll say I mean that 100% as a compliment, as in the past I found your personal flavor not to my liking.
So basically big thumbs up, i'll be sure to check out your episode today, my terrible internet willing.
Oh forgot to mention, the reaction to the 'nobody does this for money' guy, was spot on. Being someone who busted their arse doing stuff for MLG back in 2011 and early 2012 for no pay, I can 100% promise you knowing a lot of the 'community guys' that guy couldn't of been more wrong. Do people do this because they love it, hell yeah they do. Do they want to find a way to get income from it so they can quit their day job, of course they do. Anyone thinking that people don't care at all about money is delusional. Anyone who says making money doesn't matter at all to them are either A) flat out a liar, or B) getting enough income elsewhere they don't need money.
Watched about 5 minutes of today's show and was reminded why I never want Destiny to return to this community lol. He's so polarizing as a public figure. Dear god I hope no team is dumb enough to take him on.
This looks awesome! Destiny is a great cohost. great discussions. I look forward to more episodes. Hopefully it will gain in popularity. Destiny can also handle the haters so rack that up as another reason for having him. TeamDestiny fighting!
Destiny has to stop getting distracted on his skype lol.
Like the only con of this show I feel are the moments when Destiny is looking at his skype, Chanman asks him a question, then he goes "wut?". Happened the past two episodes.
On April 12 2013 06:03 SkyDrinker wrote: Didn't really get last weeks episode, as I know nothing about computers. Hope this one will be more interesting.
Yeh it was really boring. They need more topics planned ahead or simply need to cut down the show (maybe it shouldn't last longer than 30-40 minutes).
Today's episode is at 5pm EST. We'll be talking about the impact of maps on competitive gaming and eSports and hopefully one other topic. Q&A from viewers as always to finish.
On April 19 2013 01:24 neozxa wrote: Destiny huh...I'm looking forward on watching the show, but I'm looking forward more on seeing how the stream chat will turn out later.
What an incredibly weird and odd thing to be excited for.
Can we seriously not have showtimes in UTC +/- whatever so the people all over the world don't have to screw around with time zone conversion sites to figure out when 6EST actually is? This is the internet, everyone's in a different zone, but we all have a windows time thingie @ the bottom right of our screen that has all the timezones in UTC +/- 7 or whatever.
I have like 3 clocks down there these days, and usually none of them help me to figure out when a starcraft event is actually going to happen.
On April 19 2013 02:17 Inimic wrote: Can we seriously not have showtimes in UTC +/- whatever so the people all over the world don't have to screw around with time zone conversion sites to figure out when 6EST actually is? This is the internet, everyone's in a different zone, but we all have a windows time thingie @ the bottom right of our screen that has all the timezones in UTC +/- 7 or whatever.
I have like 3 clocks down there these days, and usually none of them help me to figure out when a starcraft event is actually going to happen.
You live in North America and don't know how to convert from EST?
On April 19 2013 02:17 Inimic wrote: Can we seriously not have showtimes in UTC +/- whatever so the people all over the world don't have to screw around with time zone conversion sites to figure out when 6EST actually is? This is the internet, everyone's in a different zone, but we all have a windows time thingie @ the bottom right of our screen that has all the timezones in UTC +/- 7 or whatever.
I have like 3 clocks down there these days, and usually none of them help me to figure out when a starcraft event is actually going to happen.
I have the time in my time zone at the bottom right of my screen. If you live in Canada and can't convert from EST, then what the fuck.
Unfiltered #6 today with Destiny and myself. We'll be talking about Shoutcraft NA, racism in/around eSports, and maybe some on Dreamhack Stockholm. We'll be taking viewer questions as always so post them here or in the reddit thread.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
??? Source?
You haven't been here long, have you? Most torches are still warm from the Destiny witch hunts.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
??? Source?
You haven't been here long, have you? Most torches are still warm from the Destiny witch hunts.
Damn it, I was getting my pitchfork detailed. Hopefully no one will notice the drama until tomorrow when I can pick it up from the shop.
Destiny is actually a pretty smart guy, and usually has a lot to say on any given topic. You might not agree with his personal take on language, but I can guarantee you he'll give some interesting insight in to his take on things and racism as a whole. Seriously, most people who pitchfork for him are doing so based off headlines. I don't like his take on insulting language and censorship thereof myself, but I do like listening to him posit on any given topic.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
??? Source?
You haven't been here long, have you? Most torches are still warm from the Destiny witch hunts.
Damn it, I was getting my pitchfork detailed. Hopefully no one will notice the drama until tomorrow when I can pick it up from the shop.
Stupid, sensitive and quick to blame. Plansix I'd class you as a toxic part of the community, not Destiny.
On May 01 2013 06:30 Santi wrote: This sounded good till I saw Destiny was on so I stopped watching. Shows need hosts with brains.
This. Especially when talking about racism in e-sport, it's not smart to invite someone who got kicked from several teams for racial insults on stream.
??? Source?
You haven't been here long, have you? Most torches are still warm from the Destiny witch hunts.
Damn it, I was getting my pitchfork detailed. Hopefully no one will notice the drama until tomorrow when I can pick it up from the shop.
Stupid, sensitive and quick to blame. Plansix I'd class you as a toxic part of the community, not Destiny.
On May 22 2013 11:05 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah I cant see why anyone would watch this given the other amount of content out there and the terrible co-host.
I can't see why you'd watch anything else without the best hosts!!
I think we need more positivity! Yay positive statements!
For a person trying to get better at a competitive game: How important do you think clan/teams are to your growth as a player? Clan wars were one of the things that really kept the foreigner brood war scene alive for so long (as well as custom ladders like nation wars), and people strove to get on certain teams (for example, in BW Templars of Twilight) as a token of pride. Do you think for a player trying to get better you should be aiming to get in a clan as soon as possible, or are clans more of a honing tool once you're already somewhat good? What aspects of being in a clan are the most beneficial to player growth?
Also, Blizzard gave some better tools this expansion to start a clan, but it seems like it's still not that big a part of the game. I personally can't tell you what the good clans are, or who generally have the best players. What can we do as a community to foster a much better clan system that appeals to a large amount of people with a good clan wars/ladders system like we had in Brood War since it doesn't look like Blizzard is going to be of much help in this regard?
Disagree with what Steven said about casting, maybe that was true a year ago, not anymore. Almost all of the casting duos mix up good analysis in their casts now a days.
- WCS NA Finals and S1 Grouping - SuperStar Strikers Invitational #1 Recap - Destiny Monthly Update - Workout, Fantasy League, Future - Pizza and eSports - Viewer Q&A (Post questions in this thread)
Doing something different and hopefully fun this week. We're letting one of you folks in the community be the interviewer for this weeks episode of Unfiltered with myself and Destiny. I know a lot of you guys always have great questions for us during the shows each week but I think it would fantastic to have you guys submit a set of interview questions to us and the person with the best set of questions (can be funny, serious, etc .etc) can come on and take my interviewer job for the day!
It'll probably be best to have somewhere in the realm of 15-20 questions listed and ready the go. Again these sets will be judged as a whole so the better you tie in the questions or flow into others the better the chances you have of being our favorite one!
Send in your question sets, comments, and skype id to:
chanmanvproductions@yahoo.com
If you don't mind everyone seeing, you can post them here too if you'd like. We'll be reading these too.
Why does it say 'nationale strippen kaart' on the background of unfiltered? Seems so strange that an outdated payment method for Dutch public transport makes it to the background to such a show.
On June 19 2013 06:42 ngri wrote: Why does it say 'nationale strippen kaart' on the background of unfiltered? Seems so strange that an outdated payment method for Dutch public transport makes it to the background to such a show.
oh wow. it was just part of the background we liked for the show. honestly didn't even notice it until you pointed it out.
HomeStory Cup #7 / Redbull Training Grounds Microsoft DRM reversal and the future Time Warner Cable Performance Online Music Collaboration Twitch Video Metadata and more! Viewer Q&A (Post questions in this thread or tweet with #unfiltered)
On June 26 2013 05:20 ChanmanV wrote: Topic for today's show
HomeStory Cup #7 / Redbull Training Grounds Microsoft DRM reversal and the future Time Warner Cable Performance Online Music Collaboration Twitch Video Metadata and more! Viewer Q&A (Post questions in this thread or tweet with #unfiltered)
(y) :D
I hope you can get the vods up quick within the next couple of days. My internet is too slow to watch the stream.
Hey ChanmanV or anyone who has decent internet watching todays show (streams are always blurry so I cant see names or specifics in general) , could you post some links of the artists that was played from soundcloud today?
On June 26 2013 08:02 Ecailles wrote: Hey ChanmanV or anyone who has decent internet watching todays show (streams are always blurry so I cant see names or specifics in general) , could you post some links of the artists that was played from soundcloud today?
Tomorrow we got Robert Yip dropping by to talk about the benefits of players working with performance coaches. We'll be talking WCS of course tomorrow.
This is really a small gripe of mine, but could you possibly edit your youtube channel so it plays oldest to newest instead of vica versa? I listen to the show while I'm playing games, and I have to tab out every time a new video plays because it goes to the last episode (or chunk of episode) chronologically instead of the next chunk of the episode I'm watching. Just a quality of life change you could make that would be much appreciated.
On July 24 2013 15:47 Arisen wrote: This is really a small gripe of mine, but could you possibly edit your youtube channel so it plays oldest to newest instead of vica versa? I listen to the show while I'm playing games, and I have to tab out every time a new video plays because it goes to the last episode (or chunk of episode) chronologically instead of the next chunk of the episode I'm watching. Just a quality of life change you could make that would be much appreciated.
ah didn't realize this. Ill rearrange the parts to make this better moving forward. thanks for the feedback.
Love the show Chanman, I really enjoy how you guys just sort of talk about things you find interesting instead of just sticking to rigid segments/schedules.
Oh boy, I hope Destiny trolls the shit out of Tara :D EDIT: BTW you could have invited Ms Spite instead, then you could have an actual serious discussion
On July 30 2013 23:30 Zax19 wrote: Oh boy, I hope Destiny trolls the shit out of Tara :D EDIT: BTW you could have invited Ms Spite instead, then you could have an actual serious discussion
True and Im going to see if spyte will call in but Tara's video is what started the convo recently so was the logical choice.
Female gamers make out a huge proportion of the total gamer base, even if just starcraft 2 is heavily skewed to male (if that is even true) then that is completely irrelevant because we are trying to BROADEN esport.
So how to get the real amount of procentual women into starcraft2 esports? Well having women in meaningful position maybe?
A lot of men are on teams ''undeservingly'' only because of PR and is kennigit meaning that they should be dropped?
Who can say that - regardless if it's a woman or not - maddelisk hasn't marketed herself good? Just like Geoff markets EG brilliantly; Maddelisk is doing great work personally in millenium.
IMO Kennigit's argument is flawed here, it isn't any team's obligation to recruit players purely based on skill. It's overly idealistic to think that teams need to recruit the best players and give them a stable career but there are so many other variables involved in maintaining a company (ALL teams are companies). If a team manager thinks that a random pick-up is worth the cost, then so be it. Esports isn't a charity that guarantees every ladder try-hard a salary.
If a team wants to recruit only girls, or only college students, or only Americans, then why shouldn't they be able to? If it's truly a bad move, then they will go under. Let the market decide and not some ideal that only the "most skilled" deserve any potential. In some cases, the ends justify the means especially if it means that up-and-coming female gamers will have people to look up to and it fosters better female players in the future (even if that's 5+ years down the line)
The way I understood Kennigit was that if we want "equality" then it should start at the top level. It's impossible to be respectful to all women and not objectify them when teams hire them exactly because the viewers objectify them, thus reinforcing the problem.
On July 31 2013 07:40 Zax19 wrote: The way I understood Kennigit was that if we want "equality" then it should start at the top level. It's impossible to be respectful to all women and not objectify them when teams hire them exactly because the viewers objectify them, thus reinforcing the problem.
I wasn't aware that teams were picking up female players in order for people to objectify them. And just because some people do disrespect them after the fact doesn't mean that the team had insincere intentions for picking them up in the first place.
It's honestly bullshit to think that teams are not supposed to recruit players for reasons other than pure skill. First of all, there's no good metric to skill or potential besides a lot of tournament results -- and the few players with that sort of repertoire are already the ones making good money. The root of this argument really has nothing to do with female gamers not being "skilled enough", because if we dig deep enough we can find plenty of other cases where male players were given preferential treatment for one reason or another. Just like in the "real world", recruitment might come down to something as arbitrary as friendship or charisma.
It's not even like you can claim that teams are falsely advertising the female pickups either. From what I've seen in the announcements nobody is promising a GSL champion when adding a new member to the roster. The recent trend of most NA teams starting academies should be more evidence that our community values diversity and player growth. Unless you're also willing to argue that it's "disrespectful" for teams to hire b-teamers, I just don't see how you can actually argue for this purely skill-based equity environment.
On July 31 2013 07:40 Zax19 wrote: The way I understood Kennigit was that if we want "equality" then it should start at the top level. It's impossible to be respectful to all women and not objectify them when teams hire them exactly because the viewers objectify them, thus reinforcing the problem.
I wasn't aware that teams were picking up female players in order for people to objectify them. And just because some people do disrespect them after the fact doesn't mean that the team had insincere intentions for picking them up in the first place.
It's honestly bullshit to think that teams are not supposed to recruit players for reasons other than pure skill. First of all, there's no good metric to skill or potential besides a lot of tournament results -- and the few players with that sort of repertoire are already the ones making good money. The root of this argument really has nothing to do with female gamers not being "skilled enough", because if we dig deep enough we can find plenty of other cases where male players were given preferential treatment for one reason or another. Just like in the "real world", recruitment might come down to something as arbitrary as friendship or charisma.
It's not even like you can claim that teams are falsely advertising the female pickups either. From what I've seen in the announcements nobody is promising a GSL champion when adding a new member to the roster. The recent trend of most NA teams starting academies should be more evidence that our community values diversity and player growth. Unless you're also willing to argue that it's "disrespectful" for teams to hire b-teamers, I just don't see how you can actually argue for this purely skill-based equity environment.
I’ll try to put it this way – if there is a smaller portion of females picked up by teams for their skill than males then it’s difficult to expect the community not to bash females because their skill matters less. There is both demand and supply of attractive females in esports. Most of the time the argument is that the community should change their approach (lesser demand) but the organisations still fuel these arguments by hiring females on this pretext. Both sides should try to change it but the demand side of things gets attacked despite being the more difficult to change.
BTW simple example of a good female only tournament - Before an MLG you advertise that any female in the open bracket will have the chance to enter a female bracket too. I can’t really imagine an easy verification process online so they’d have to risk not knowing the number of players in advance. Then you ask every female upon checking in, play the games on the side (probably similarly to the American invitational) and depending on the turn-out you put some of them on the stream or cast them from replays. In other words, I’d definitely run them alongside some other tournament and preferably offline. I know it’s a big constriction but it’s the only way to prevent cheating. On the bright side, almost any local LAN can do a female only bracket on the side, it shouldn’t take much more effort considering the number of female players…
gratz to yesterdays show. It was a really good in-depth discussion with amazing guests. Enjoyed it a lot! Please keep on doing your great work!
Oh and i really like sheth as a guest in the show! Would even consider bringing him in as a second co-host - it´s like good vs. evil together with destiny. :D
On September 11 2013 05:29 Zelniq wrote: What game is this listed under on Twitch? Sc2? Because the android twitch app is only able to browse, not search, for channels.
I think Richard Lewis' opinions are valuable/correct, but he is clearly making a stand and it's easy to drag people into his polemics at that point, where you have to either stand with or against him. Great show though.
I am warming up to Richard Lewis to be honest, he can be a bit too negative at times, but he comes from an honest place and its important to have characters like him in every community.
last 2 unfiltered shows were AMAZING, great guests, great discussions.
what i have never understood is that why don't the casting teams consist of 1 pro player, 1 pro caster? I'm pretty sure players wouldn't mind the extra income and a proper professional caster (Biscuit, Apollo, Artosis, Kalaris) can easily adopt to the pro player and keep the show running. If the caster also knows the game, even better, but not a necessity. You could also rotate the players quite frequently so you always have a pro from one of the races that is playing the game.
WCS is perfect for developing a new casting scene! There are a ton of games regularly and you can air the less experienced casters in challenger and use the top tier ones in premier.
On October 15 2013 16:51 mihajovics wrote: last 2 unfiltered shows were AMAZING, great guests, great discussions.
what i have never understood is that why don't the casting teams consist of 1 pro player, 1 pro caster? I'm pretty sure players wouldn't mind the extra income and a proper professional caster (Biscuit, Apollo, Artosis, Kalaris) can easily adopt to the pro player and keep the show running. If the caster also knows the game, even better, but not a necessity. You could also rotate the players quite frequently so you always have a pro from one of the races that is playing the game.
WCS is perfect for developing a new casting scene! There are a ton of games regularly and you can air the less experienced casters in challenger and use the top tier ones in premier.
Yea I think we're starting to see more events try out players as the "analyst" caster in the duo with some success. It still takes the right players to pull this off properly but there are definitely a good number that can and Im sure they would welcome the opportunity.
On October 15 2013 16:51 mihajovics wrote: last 2 unfiltered shows were AMAZING, great guests, great discussions.
what i have never understood is that why don't the casting teams consist of 1 pro player, 1 pro caster? I'm pretty sure players wouldn't mind the extra income and a proper professional caster (Biscuit, Apollo, Artosis, Kalaris) can easily adopt to the pro player and keep the show running. If the caster also knows the game, even better, but not a necessity. You could also rotate the players quite frequently so you always have a pro from one of the races that is playing the game.
WCS is perfect for developing a new casting scene! There are a ton of games regularly and you can air the less experienced casters in challenger and use the top tier ones in premier.
Yea I think we're starting to see more events try out players as the "analyst" caster in the duo with some success. It still takes the right players to pull this off properly but there are definitely a good number that can and Im sure they would welcome the opportunity.
Ok guys, for those of you who are starving for mp3 like I am, here is the way to get them. Go to ChanmanV youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/ChanmanV/videos get the link of the video (prefferably watch it a bit so the commercials pop) and paste on a converting website and you are done.
mod edit: let's have people find these websites on their own so you're not liable
On November 27 2013 08:28 Jochan wrote: Ok guys, for those of you who are starving for mp3 like I am, here is the way to get them. Go to ChanmanV youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/ChanmanV/videos get the link of the video (prefferably watch it a bit so the commercials pop) and paste on a converting website like vidtomp3.com (this one works with longer videos, usually they make 20min restriction) and you are done.
Fuck you. Doing this installs all kind of shitware on your PC.
On November 27 2013 08:28 Jochan wrote: Ok guys, for those of you who are starving for mp3 like I am, here is the way to get them. Go to ChanmanV youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/ChanmanV/videos get the link of the video (prefferably watch it a bit so the commercials pop) and paste on a converting website like vidtomp3.com (this one works with longer videos, usually they make 20min restriction) and you are done.
Fuck you. Doing this installs all kind of shitware on your PC.
What? Maybe if you click some kind of "grats you are 1000000 customer click here to claim prize" button... I download only mp3 without any program...
On November 27 2013 08:28 Jochan wrote: Ok guys, for those of you who are starving for mp3 like I am, here is the way to get them. Go to ChanmanV youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/ChanmanV/videos get the link of the video (prefferably watch it a bit so the commercials pop) and paste on a converting website like vidtomp3.com (this one works with longer videos, usually they make 20min restriction) and you are done.
Fuck you. Doing this installs all kind of shitware on your PC.
The worst you will get is a popup ad. These services generally don't require that you install stuff.
I can't believe you let the bullshit Thorin and Richard Lewis spew about games on this show continue without any attempt to be a host and keep the discussion focused. In fact I question what this show brings other than letting 3 people talk shit like anyone else in a internet chatroom ranting about everything in esports under the context of intellectual discussion. Topics such as comparing which community is more toxic and production values of both LoL and Dota 2's biggest events were so badly shitted on by your guests (Thorin and Richard Lewis primarily) that its obvious your entire show is there to cater to people who want confirmation bias while milking viewership for content that's absolutely worthless to the community in the long run. Good job on banning the 4 people trying to point out how ridiculous it is for people who don't play Dota 2 to have such bias against something they've never spent the time in to understand (see Diretide example and Russian example memes). Instead you let the chat repeatedly spam wot m8 and give diretide because that's better or maybe that's just your so called moderators.
On December 31 2013 07:45 Avs wrote: I can't believe you let the bullshit Thorin and Richard Lewis spew about games on this show continue without any attempt to be a host and keep the discussion focused. In fact I question what this show brings other than letting 3 people talk shit like anyone else in a internet chatroom ranting about everything in esports under the context of intellectual discussion. Topics such as comparing which community is more toxic and production values of both LoL and Dota 2's biggest events were so badly shitted on by your guests (Thorin and Richard Lewis primarily) that its obvious your entire show is there to cater to people who want confirmation bias while milking viewership for content that's absolutely worthless to the community in the long run. Good job on banning the 4 people trying to point out how ridiculous it is for people who don't play Dota 2 to have such bias against something they've never spent the time in to understand (see Diretide example and Russian example memes). Instead you let the chat repeatedly spam wot m8 and give diretide because that's better or maybe that's just your so called moderators.
They are right though. I just have a problem with Thorin monopolizing the mic but I am enjoying the show so far.
On December 31 2013 07:45 Avs wrote: I can't believe you let the bullshit Thorin and Richard Lewis spew about games on this show continue without any attempt to be a host and keep the discussion focused. In fact I question what this show brings other than letting 3 people talk shit like anyone else in a internet chatroom ranting about everything in esports under the context of intellectual discussion. Topics such as comparing which community is more toxic and production values of both LoL and Dota 2's biggest events were so badly shitted on by your guests (Thorin and Richard Lewis primarily) that its obvious your entire show is there to cater to people who want confirmation bias while milking viewership for content that's absolutely worthless to the community in the long run. Good job on banning the 4 people trying to point out how ridiculous it is for people who don't play Dota 2 to have such bias against something they've never spent the time in to understand (see Diretide example and Russian example memes). Instead you let the chat repeatedly spam wot m8 and give diretide because that's better or maybe that's just your so called moderators.
the show is supposed to be entertainment rather than anything else, and it's also called unfiltered for a reason, sharing your opinions without holding back. It's not a show trying to make esports look good by only sharing your positive thoughts
and since it's only opinions, you are free to disagree with them and point out why they're wrong, rather than attacking the fact that they HAVE an opinion
On December 31 2013 10:05 shadowrunner99 wrote: I dont get why Thorin is so mean to Chanman.
He seems incredibly grumpy for whatever reason. In the journalism discussion, whenever someone brought up a point contrary to his it felt like he got personally offended and super defensive. edit: best example when 2GD just said a small joke and Thoring got like super offended. dunno feel like he took everything way too fucking serious
On December 31 2013 09:53 Rube_Juice wrote: I don't mind Richard Lewis, he actually seems like an intelligent dude to me. Thorin, however, is a massive tool.
I think they both have some serious issues. Although I do really enjoy Thorin's work in interviews and on the panel for CS:GO.
And by issues I mean personality issues. Richard Lewis often sounds like a teenage girl. Martyr complex. etc...
I guess that's what happens to people who work for a very long time in a very under-appreciative industry, but that doesn't make it any less of a flaw. You can still do your work, have opinions, and not act like children.
I mean even Destiny seems civil and cohesive next to those two often. And that's a shame because they have the knowledge.
This argument of NA vs KR struggles is kind of ridiculous.
The reason people care about the NA players is because that's who they want to watch. Sports/eSports are about entertainment. If that's what they find entertaining, that's what they care about. And if people don't want to watch the people who might make the biggest struggles, too bad. Is that a problem with the system? Not really, that's just the situation we're in with the enormous chasm of skill between regions.
On December 31 2013 10:16 KaiserJohan wrote: 2GD is too rude and douchy, I do like to hear Thorin, he do have some interesting points and combines well with Destiny
i actually feel like Thorin is being way too offended and way too "invested" that it gets ridiculous and thasts why 2GD (rightfully so imho) pokes fun at him for it. i feel like most of his points would go over WAY better if it wasn´t presented as a huge whiny rant. He also presents everything super black and white, or at least thats how i feel. anyway as they all said before his points should still be valid regardless of wheather i like him or not
Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
no, thorin is saying it how it is, he doesnt have enough time to say it i guess, its all true what hes saying you need to reflect on the issue hes bringing up and not take the words quite literally, hes trying to verse a wide issue and people are just jumping on 3 words.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
It's easy to understand his view. What he wants to see is how almost no sports are run though.
In Sweden people watch Swedish football, even if it isn't especially good. That's how you grow a market. That's how you get localised sponsorship. That's how you foster talent.
On December 31 2013 10:31 StatixEx wrote: no, thorin is saying it how it is, he doesnt have enough time to say it i guess, its all true what hes saying you need to reflect on the issue hes bringing up and not take the words quite literally, hes trying to verse a wide issue and people are just jumping on 3 words.
i feel like he would present it dryer and more detached it would be way easier to understand his points.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
It's easy to understand his view. What he wants to see is how almost no sports are run though.
In Sweden people watch Swedish football, even if it isn't especially good. That's how you grow a market. That's how you get localised sponsorship. That's how you foster talent.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
Thorin wouldn't mind, and I wouldn't either. Competition is competition
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
Thorin wouldn't mind, and I wouldn't either. Competition is competition
You would mind when the game is dead. You need people to be interested.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
Thorin wouldn't mind, and I wouldn't either. Competition is competition
Oh yeah, because korean competition depends entirely on western money. They don't have the talent or the infrastructure right?
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
It's easy to understand his view. What he wants to see is how almost no sports are run though.
In Sweden people watch Swedish football, even if it isn't especially good. That's how you grow a market. That's how you get localised sponsorship. That's how you foster talent.
What he wants is unrealistic and idealistic.
With the difference that in Swedish football there's less money to gain than in England. And THAT'S what some people seem to dislike apparently. Thorin made a good point: You don't have to force the Koreans to go back to Korea, you have to make the situation over there good enough so they WANT to go back there, that it's worth taking on the harder competition. That's the better approach than just locking the regions, for example.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
Thorin wouldn't mind, and I wouldn't either. Competition is competition
Oh yeah, because korean competition depends entirely on western money. They don't have the talent or the infrastructure right?
Sorry, I don't support everything Thorin is saying and don't care about region locking that much. My only point is that IF Korean sc2 was all that remained I would still watch. I would prefer a vibrant professional korean scene than a healthy worldwide amateur scene
On December 31 2013 10:41 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: Thorin has some good arguments. Then he gets into angry mode and completely sets himself up to be made fun of...
Doesnt change the fact that his arguments stand, but if you wanna win a discussion don´t forget humans are not exclusively logical
exactly, i think he is the smartest(logical) guy in the discussion but too impulsive. That most of the people don't even want to understand him(or can't cause they are too stupid) and are only there to spam "thorin so angry kappa" doesn't really help his points either.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
It's easy to understand his view. What he wants to see is how almost no sports are run though.
In Sweden people watch Swedish football, even if it isn't especially good. That's how you grow a market. That's how you get localised sponsorship. That's how you foster talent.
What he wants is unrealistic and idealistic.
With the difference that in Swedish football there's less money to gain than in England. And THAT'S what some people seem to dislike apparently. Thorin made a good point: You don't have to force the Koreans to go back to Korea, you have to make the situation over there good enough so they WANT to go back there, that it's worth taking on the harder competition. That's the better approach than just locking the regions, for example.
The money is relative to the value of the product though. Not 'who has the best players'. It's about what you can sell.
On December 31 2013 10:39 Rube_Juice wrote: you leave scarlett alone
you fucking leave her alone she's all we've got in NA
what thorin said about her isn't even true anyway. she played the game for at least a year before IPL 4, but only played in some girl only leagues apparently. obviously she couldn't go to LANs on her own since she had to rely on IPL to bring her out to her first LAN.
On December 31 2013 10:41 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: Thorin has some good arguments. Then he gets into angry mode and completely sets himself up to be made fun of...
Doesnt change the fact that his arguments stand, but if you wanna win a discussion don´t forget humans are not exclusively logical
exactly, i think he is the smartest(logical) guy in the discussion but too impulsive. That most of the people don't even want to understand him(or can't cause they are too stupid) and are only there to spam "thorin so angry kappa" doesn't really help his points either.
agreed, if most of the people watching NA, you simply dont understand our matter of fact blunt manner, its 2am in england right now, hes probably frustrated and tired
Yup agree not the biggest Thorin fan but he is kinda right in my opinion. I think the majority of people want to watch the best games possible and those will take place with korean players. They carried the scene for 10 years and got shafted hard when Blizzard gave GOM exclusive right to broadcast SC2. Even with their piss poor conditions they still have all the best players. If anyone deserve "hand outs" it's them.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
Yeah.. Lets sacrifice the foreign scene so that koreans get everything. Great view on sc2.
Thorin wouldn't mind, and I wouldn't either. Competition is competition
Oh yeah, because korean competition depends entirely on western money. They don't have the talent or the infrastructure right?
Sorry, I don't support everything Thorin is saying and don't care about region locking that much. My only point is that IF Korean sc2 was all that remained I would still watch. I would prefer a vibrant professional korean scene than a healthy worldwide amateur scene
On December 31 2013 10:41 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: Thorin has some good arguments. Then he gets into angry mode and completely sets himself up to be made fun of...
Doesnt change the fact that his arguments stand, but if you wanna win a discussion don´t forget humans are not exclusively logical
exactly, i think he is the smartest(logical) guy in the discussion but too impulsive. That most of the people don't even want to understand him(or can't cause they are too stupid) and are only there to spam "thorin so angry kappa" doesn't really help his points either.
i disagree about ppl not / missunderstanding him (at least concerning the guests in the show, not about the reddit / TL commenters) He has some good points, not too few aither but it is burried within a lot of bullshit points aswell and all of it is burried in a very very angry and emotional rant. He attacks everyone not sharing his opinion even before 2GD started kinda attacking him personally by poking fun at him. For example in his discussion with Destiny about journalism where his response to destinys (very sound imo) points was a higly offended and defensive "NO STFU i will repeat exactly what i said before" HOWEVER the discussion is going so incredibly fast that i´d have to rewatch the part to be perfectly sure i got everything.
so TLDR: While he is making good and smart points he is also making a lot of stupid statements and backing them with a really bad presentation of them.
On December 31 2013 10:33 blade55555 wrote: lol just tune in and thorin sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about.
Well he keeps lecturing people on Korean culture and other people's cultures. So many generalizations.
He does have some good points though, just not presenting them well.
What are his good points? I am genuinely curious.
Also, he is behaving like a prick and I don't even know what he does in sc2. Like seriously.
He is definately being overly defensive, but I don't understand how 2GD is avoiding the flak?
i agree 2GD is provoking him a fuckton, unnecessarily which makes his points worse because he gets more angry instead of explaining his thoughts clearly without attacking back.
On December 31 2013 10:29 Looms wrote: Thorin is a competition purest, not solely an "entertaining seeker." so it seems like some people don't understand his points of view or even grasp why he would think that way.
It's easy to understand his view. What he wants to see is how almost no sports are run though.
In Sweden people watch Swedish football, even if it isn't especially good. That's how you grow a market. That's how you get localised sponsorship. That's how you foster talent.
What he wants is unrealistic and idealistic.
With the difference that in Swedish football there's less money to gain than in England. And THAT'S what some people seem to dislike apparently. Thorin made a good point: You don't have to force the Koreans to go back to Korea, you have to make the situation over there good enough so they WANT to go back there, that it's worth taking on the harder competition. That's the better approach than just locking the regions, for example.
The money is relative to the value of the product though. Not 'who has the best players'. It's about what you can sell.
Well, that's true. But that's why there's no region lock in football as well. A good Swedish player is never gonna play in Sweden for too long. BECAUSE the money is somewhere else. The good players just go to the region where they get the most money.. That's how it should be in Starcraft 2 as well, the really good players should go to Korea, because that's where the money is. Right now it's the other way round, the good players have to play in different regions in order to survive - which is just plain stupid. Next season that's gonna be better with the bigger prize pool in GSL - which is a really good start, imo.
The problem in Starcraft 2 is (And E-Sports in general, afaik) there are almost exclusively these huge tournaments. Especially in the USA there's absolutely nothing since MLG died. But that's not Blizzard's task to bring those smaller events to life, there should be regional organisations which produce these events. Once again something Thorin actually said before - and I really think he's right there as well. There SHOULD be regional tournaments, but Blizzard creates the international events, the national/regional ones should be run by someone else. Which - in 2013 - wasn't possible tbh, because WCS took way too too much time/too many time slots, but that's gonna change as well 2014.
I personally love Thorin, he makes the conversations really interesting, and although he's definitely out there with some of his arguments, many of them are well-founded and quite reasonable. Nice to see a different perspective for once
On December 31 2013 11:10 LDdota wrote: I personally love Thorin, he makes the conversations really interesting, and although he's definitely out there with some of his arguments, many of them are well-founded and quite reasonable. Nice to see a different perspective for once
I agree for 80% of what he says. But he goes a bit crazy now and then.
On December 31 2013 11:07 Noocta wrote: Thorin is a weird guy. He says something good, then follow it up with bullshit. Rinse and repeat.
totally agree. thats why all these comments about "OMG what a tard" or "OMG so missunderstood, so smart" really frustrating =/ also as he and Richard pointed out right in the beginning of the show: in the end of the day/night the circlejerk will aither be "Thorin is a fucking rusteled cunt" or "OMG 2GD Richard so mean go Thorin" even though both are way too simplistic
On December 31 2013 11:38 Noocta wrote: Holy shit they're not stopping. And they're starting to talk about Bitcons. My head is already near explosion level.
And I still can't turn it off, even while watching Dota.
On December 31 2013 11:38 Noocta wrote: Holy shit they're not stopping. And they're starting to talk about Bitcons. My head is already near explosion level.
And I still can't turn it off, even while watching Dota.
I know, I can't either. I started watching, I can't miss how it ends. t_t
ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
This Scalett answer was actually a good one. But then fucking Richard Lewis happens, and ridicules it. Again. Jesus, learn how to behave in a damn conversation, at least wait your turn to be a dick and say nothing interesting or original.
On December 31 2013 12:02 gCgCrypto wrote: ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
I totally understand his point though, and desrow truly is the perfect example of what hes talking about
On December 31 2013 12:02 gCgCrypto wrote: ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
I missed that part what were they saying about Desrow?
On December 31 2013 12:02 gCgCrypto wrote: ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
I missed that part what were they saying about Desrow?
On December 31 2013 12:02 gCgCrypto wrote: ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
I missed that part what were they saying about Desrow?
Honestly, I can't say 2GD is wrong about that. I'm one of these people that follow starcraft for the people and not the game. Been that way for years now.
On December 31 2013 12:02 gCgCrypto wrote: ok honestly attacking Desrow like that goes too far imo. All of these misstakes he made years ago and just saying he is the perfect example for everything thats wrong with NA is fucking beyond me.
I totally understand his point though, and desrow truly is the perfect example of what hes talking about
his point is not wrong but the way he presented it (again... story of his apearance) he presented it like he huge fucking asshole.
Thanks again Chanman! I only caught the tail-end live, but it's so Asian of you to have the vods up already =P. Hope you have a wonderful/safe New Year's and I wish you more success in 2014!!
thorin and rich lew <3 (remember thorin that with great power (your bullocks and experience) comes great responsibility, and although i agree that your desrow statement didn't start out bad at all, you didn't set things straight after "group/mob" mentality made it what it was, i don't expect you to be perfect or less marketable, but still .. you get my point)
i had to leave, i hope someone out of birmingham went to knock a few with rich lew, everyone deserves to have a nice time, and certainly not to remain isolated in this period don't be down, that's not sane pr :^)
seems like steven is less passionate than he used to be, kinda dish a point maybe fall out anxiety is more presentnow than it was before :-/
it was really cool (as i am older than them) to see a gamer showwith the fossils/kids amplitude showcased made me feel less outdated
ty all, ty chanman,for christmasstream happy new year
Great show, did not watch everything but stumbled upon the WCS discussion and I gotta say I loved Thorin there. His points were spot on, especially about the "Korean who gives everything up to play". Kinda weird that noone seemed to get what he said, but the most ludacris thing was Destiny hopping onto him with 2GD, especially after how he got treated in SotG, painful to watch.
On January 01 2014 00:52 McRatyn wrote: Great show, did not watch everything but stumbled upon the WCS discussion and I gotta say I loved Thorin there. His points were spot on, especially about the "Korean who gives everything up to play". Kinda weird that noone seemed to get what he said, but the most ludacris thing was Destiny hopping onto him with 2GD, especially after how he got treated in SotG, painful to watch.
That isn't really a fair point because of how esports is set up in SK. When they give up school and etc they have somewhere to go and develop as a player as long as they show some kind of promise. You don't get that kind of treatment as a foreigner. What a foreigner has to do is beg for practice partners, having to find housing, no reliable income, search for sponsors, and pay to go out to LANs. If they're lucky they already have a team doing some of these things for them. You already have to be really good and winning things in order to even consider dropping everything to become a pro gamer. Breaking out of the amateur scene is still hard in SK, but the transition is definitely much easier even if you stay a b teamer your whole career.
Thorin dramatized how screwed a Korean person is of he quits school and etc but I think that's pretty much wrong. Finding some kind of job in SK really doesn't seem all that difficult. Even if everything fails, becoming a leeching bum doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal.
On January 01 2014 00:52 McRatyn wrote: Great show, did not watch everything but stumbled upon the WCS discussion and I gotta say I loved Thorin there. His points were spot on, especially about the "Korean who gives everything up to play". Kinda weird that noone seemed to get what he said, but the most ludacris thing was Destiny hopping onto him with 2GD, especially after how he got treated in SotG, painful to watch.
That isn't really a fair point because of how esports is set up in SK. When they give up school and etc they have somewhere to go and develop as a player as long as they show some kind of promise. You don't get that kind of treatment as a foreigner. What a foreigner has to do is beg for practice partners, having to find housing, no reliable income, search for sponsors, and pay to go out to LANs. If they're lucky they already have a team doing some of these things for them. You already have to be really good and winning things in order to even consider dropping everything to become a pro gamer. Breaking out of the amateur scene is still hard in SK, but the transition is definitely much easier even if you stay a b teamer your whole career.
Thorin dramatized how screwed a Korean person is of he quits school and etc but I think that's pretty much wrong. Finding some kind of job in SK really doesn't seem all that difficult. Even if everything fails, becoming a leeching bum doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal.
esports starts earlier in SK though. Most of the progamers have dropped out of school in their teens. Sure they have these team houses to go to (if they are at least around the skill level of the top foreign pros already), but they have no education or life experience outside of gaming if their career doesn't pan out. In the west, most pros are either in school or have delayed/left universities.
On January 01 2014 00:52 McRatyn wrote: Great show, did not watch everything but stumbled upon the WCS discussion and I gotta say I loved Thorin there. His points were spot on, especially about the "Korean who gives everything up to play". Kinda weird that noone seemed to get what he said, but the most ludacris thing was Destiny hopping onto him with 2GD, especially after how he got treated in SotG, painful to watch.
That isn't really a fair point because of how esports is set up in SK. When they give up school and etc they have somewhere to go and develop as a player as long as they show some kind of promise. You don't get that kind of treatment as a foreigner. What a foreigner has to do is beg for practice partners, having to find housing, no reliable income, search for sponsors, and pay to go out to LANs. If they're lucky they already have a team doing some of these things for them. You already have to be really good and winning things in order to even consider dropping everything to become a pro gamer. Breaking out of the amateur scene is still hard in SK, but the transition is definitely much easier even if you stay a b teamer your whole career.
Thorin dramatized how screwed a Korean person is of he quits school and etc but I think that's pretty much wrong. Finding some kind of job in SK really doesn't seem all that difficult. Even if everything fails, becoming a leeching bum doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal.
esports starts earlier in SK though. Most of the progamers have dropped out of school in their teens. Sure they have these team houses to go to (if they are at least around the skill level of the top foreign pros already), but they have no education or life experience outside of gaming if their career doesn't pan out. In the west, most pros are either in school or have delayed/left universities.
But there's no prerequisite that says you have to go all-in at a young age. Look at Polt, he's been on/off full-time progamming since WOL, still delaying his schooling, but no one's going to worry about his future once he's done with SC2.
You insinuate that SK teens drop out of school at an early age when objectively it's an idiotic decision. To that point (and the point 2GD brought up), why should the NA/EU scene shoulder the burden of SK programers making terrible decisions?
On January 01 2014 00:52 McRatyn wrote: Great show, did not watch everything but stumbled upon the WCS discussion and I gotta say I loved Thorin there. His points were spot on, especially about the "Korean who gives everything up to play". Kinda weird that noone seemed to get what he said, but the most ludacris thing was Destiny hopping onto him with 2GD, especially after how he got treated in SotG, painful to watch.
That isn't really a fair point because of how esports is set up in SK. When they give up school and etc they have somewhere to go and develop as a player as long as they show some kind of promise. You don't get that kind of treatment as a foreigner. What a foreigner has to do is beg for practice partners, having to find housing, no reliable income, search for sponsors, and pay to go out to LANs. If they're lucky they already have a team doing some of these things for them. You already have to be really good and winning things in order to even consider dropping everything to become a pro gamer. Breaking out of the amateur scene is still hard in SK, but the transition is definitely much easier even if you stay a b teamer your whole career.
Thorin dramatized how screwed a Korean person is of he quits school and etc but I think that's pretty much wrong. Finding some kind of job in SK really doesn't seem all that difficult. Even if everything fails, becoming a leeching bum doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal.
esports starts earlier in SK though. Most of the progamers have dropped out of school in their teens. Sure they have these team houses to go to (if they are at least around the skill level of the top foreign pros already), but they have no education or life experience outside of gaming if their career doesn't pan out. In the west, most pros are either in school or have delayed/left universities.
But there's no prerequisite that says you have to go all-in at a young age. Look at Polt, he's been on/off full-time progamming since WOL, still delaying his schooling, but no one's going to worry about his future once he's done with SC2.
You insinuate that SK teens drop out of school at an early age when objectively it's an idiotic decision. To that point (and the point 2GD brought up), why should the NA/EU scene shoulder the burden of SK programers making terrible decisions?
In SK the case is a bit more complex. You say it's not a prerequisite, which is 100% true, but talking realistically, in Brood War it was. I read in some interview how Flash said he had to train the nights and go be a student in the day when he was starting. What I'm getting at is that you cannot come to a guy who was thaught for ~13 years that he has to give the game nearly all the time he has just to be remotely succesful and say: "Hey but, you do know there's another way to do it right? Like this." and expect him to just flip the switch and if he doesn't, everyone turns on him and is like "Well duh, not like I didn't tell you".
May be I do not know shit about either bussiness, or the real state of e-sports in depth but I'm just saddened after reading about Starcraft's rich and beautiful history (I wasn't into it back then) and now see it's offspring fare so badly
Hey Chan, thnx for putting on a high quality show, but i have to agree with the first comment in this thread. I think Destiny ruins the show with his blatantly racist comments, which he hides under the guise of "humor" or being "unfiltered." Just because the word "unfiltered" is in the title doesn't open the gates to discrimination. I had to shut it off halfway through because it felt like many of the Asian jokes were not being ironically delivered. Destiny admits he is "a racist American" (his words on the show) but that is not sufficient justification for airing his comments. I would be careful, Chan, with the image Destiny is bringing to your otherwise great show.
On January 20 2014 05:50 Hermes__ wrote: Hey Chan, thnx for putting on a high quality show, but i have to agree with the first comment in this thread. I think Destiny ruins the show with his blatantly racist comments, which he hides under the guise of "humor" or being "unfiltered." Just because the word "unfiltered" is in the title doesn't open the gates to discrimination. I had to shut it off halfway through because it felt like many of the Asian jokes were not being ironically delivered. Destiny admits he is "a racist American" (his words on the show) but that is not sufficient justification for airing his comments. I would be careful, Chan, with the image Destiny is bringing to your otherwise great show.
i dont think blizzard will put work into a mod or custommap. i mean they could change their way of doing business but they didnt do it for bw,wc3 or d2 and thats why their are so anxious about protecting it now and regarding DotA...im really happy that blizzard did not get all the rights for it just because they dont deserve it. DotA was the most popular custom map in warcraft 3 and it had a huge playerbase plus a pro scene in china. blizzard had to know some numbers yet they did nothing absolutely nothing to support it (did they support 1 tournament?!). of course they had to try and protect "their" ip and safe the name DotA for themselves but im really happy that it didnt work out and a company who does a great job working on their games had the option to make a sequel
Holy shit, these SC2 talk-shows have lately been so depressing to somebody who only cares about Starcraft e-sports. All hail our moba overlords I guess. Thanks for a good show nevertheless!
Good episode, Kennigit with some good insights as usual. A bit of a reality check for SC2.
Basically, #dead gaem.
It's funny how people still say things like 'step in the right direction,' for instance, in response to Blizzard making the Arcade free-to-play. For a game that's almost 4 years old, it's a bit late to say things like 'step in the right direction.'
The people in Blizz's target demographic are, by and large, not playing SC2. These people have heard about it, or tried it, and decided not to play it. Blizz is not going to get these people to reconsider this late in the game. That ship has sailed. A mod like Starbow isn't gonna change that either. One can hope for consolidation of the current player base, or pulling in the people who watch the game but not play it. Kind of disheartening, esp. since Legacy of the Void is still being worked on, but that seems the way it is.
OF COURSE they will split the prize pool. OF COURSE.
My guess is that representatives of the teams who will have players there are talking to each other right now, about the other party's willingness to split the prize. That would be the rational thing to do.
I got pissed off that the OP didn't contain the episodes past #25, so I spent the better part of the last last two days downloading the Youtube episodes, converting them to MP3s, joining the parts, and personally uploading them to Mega. Your welcome. Upboats to the lef -- err, never mind~
Channelman, if you want to grant the OP to me, I will integrate this stuff into the OP and maintain it.
Episode 25 (10/29/13) - w/ guest Robert Ohlén (Dreamhack CEO)
channel man is there list of upcoming show/guests/etc? thx man, sorry u didnt win blizz community stream awards but much <3 for all u do for sc2/hearthstoners <3 channellmannnnn
Probably going to get a lot of flak for this but: I really hope Richard Lewis won't become a regular fixture on the show. His behaviour strikes me as really obnoxious and arrogant. I can see that he might have become like this partly because he's got a lot of hate from the community, but that doesn't excuse his overly aggressive, often extremely disrespectful behaviour displayed on the show. This doesn't have anything to do with being "unfiltered", it's just bad taste. I think he promotes a toxic and negative atmosphere. If anyone is with me or disagrees, I'd appreciate if you could please vote below. Thanks.
Poll: Richard Lewis should not become of a regular fixture in the show
Disagree (31)
67%
Agree (15)
33%
46 total votes
Your vote: Richard Lewis should not become of a regular fixture in the show
On March 05 2014 01:52 Harajuku wrote: Probably going to get a lot of flak for this but: I really hope Richard Lewis won't become a regular fixture on the show. His behaviour strikes me as really obnoxious and arrogant. I can see that he might have become like this partly because he's got a lot of hate from the community, but that doesn't excuse his overly aggressive, often extremely disrespectful behaviour displayed on the show. This doesn't have anything to do with being "unfiltered", it's just bad taste. I think he promotes a toxic and negative atmosphere. If anyone is with me or disagrees, I'd appreciate if you could please vote below. Thanks.
Poll: Richard Lewis should not become of a regular fixture in the show
Disagree (31)
67%
Agree (15)
33%
46 total votes
Your vote: Richard Lewis should not become of a regular fixture in the show
silly silly person. You either dont understand what hes saying or simply cannot understand his british nature. me being british can and this is just the straight forward way we put things. ive watched every episode and only when richard is on do you get topics driven forwards by somebody actually involved and getting work in the business. i find his input insightful and quite clever and as ive said straight to the point. His only issue is that he has to put up with us idiots bashing him on the forums for no reason other than hes bringing his insight to the table along with chan who has been doing this a log time and of course the sharp and clever wit of destiny who i think personally has stood the test of time on the community. Just dont get so hung up on what you think this person is like over a skype call, they all seem like reasonable people who you could go and have a beer with and have a decent conversation and the CHARACTER they seem to put on on stream will simply not come out . . and if it did this still would be a bad thing. Richard Lewis is a great addition to the show, infact when hes no there there is a lot of useless side tracking and rambling about utter shit. Richard brings a well versed opinion and well researched and informed argument to the table, he isnt just spouting shit, you can kind of hear him choosing his sentences. Additiion for me is positive. Much agree many wants
Another response of which no-one cares and or agrees or disagrees with
edit and holy shit i went and pressed agree as your stupid backwards question made me do it . . soz Rich, i want you there!
Cant understand how this blacklisting esport journalist issue is not discussed more. It is absolutely disgusting practice by TL, EG and the rest. I find it particularly ugly that EG's Alex, the moral crusader, practices it aswell.
Richard is a cool guest on the show, but I agree with someone earlier who wished for more Thorin. I'd like to see Redeye on the show again sometime, too.
On March 07 2014 01:35 KaiserJohan wrote: Cant understand how this blacklisting esport journalist issue is not discussed more. It is absolutely disgusting practice by TL, EG and the rest. I find it particularly ugly that EG's Alex, the moral crusader, practices it aswell.
Hey, anything for the business right :D It's equally disgusting and interesting to watch this sort of stuff though. I think Richard Lewis is a very good addition because he's active, has a lot of experience in general SC2 and as a reporter, and is just very open (he is in his articles aswell which makes me respect him a lot). Always enjoy the show when it's both Destiny and Richard lewis on
Is it true that Thorin got fired from IEM Katowice/EMS One? Supposedly he expressed some racist feelings on the show towards the Polish and then Ukrainians?
On March 14 2014 02:30 nkr wrote: well cmon you dont insult the people youre about to work for
He just stated his opinion on the state of the country for the most part (with some "humor"), people are way too sensitive these days but i don't wanna discuss this to be honets, it will only lead to more bs.
Look it's the risk you take coming on a show like that and saying the things you say. You can dismiss the offense taken by viewers. It's like watching South Park and getting offended, the whole show is designed to be offensive, that's known, it's no bait and switch, if you tune in it becomes your problem at that point. SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING OFFENSIVE ON UNFILTERED, well no shit sherlock you watched a show where that's the entire point then got upset about it. Do you also tune into porn and get upset about the tits? Come on.
HOWEVER. Good luck getting a company to see that. If you're working for a company and you say shit like Thorin did about the country you are ABOUT TO GO AND CAST IN, what do you expect to happen? That's on you. Viewers can bitch til the end of time but if a company you're working for does well, you're shit out of luck at that point.
I cannot believe what he just did O_o I mean how stupid u have to be?
On March 14 2014 02:23 The_Red_Viper wrote: You just aren't allowed to have strong opinions in esports, you have to be the "everything is good and fine" type of guy, kinda sad
Okay seems I have to tldr it here for u guys, according to Thorin Poland is: a 3rd world country one of shittiest places of all Europe where there is nothing to do undeveloped, uncivilized and Poles are: racist being polish is nothing to be proud of
Also poles always concentrate in places where they can see and touch white poeple especially britains. Whenever an organization brings in working TVs then not matter what they are doing there the stadiums will always be full. Polish borders where closed till the Schengen treaty after which all of them escpaded to better world (see GB)
After all these insults which some of them are just false and some may be opinions, the guy is flying to Poland to meet polish fans of e-sports and cast for them games live? WHAT?!
I don't see how it's ridiculous he got fired. Being unfiltered isn't a get out of free card for no consequences. You can't go on a show like that, then shit all over your employer, etc and then go what bro I was just being unfiltered? The iem event is being backed by the polish gov't and he just shit all over their country and people and he expects to walk into their country, cast, collect his money and then go haha suckers, I get to leave now while you guys still live in shit poland. I really don't know how he didn't see this coming.
People in the scene just so desperately want to see personalities be "unfiltered" which is code word for they want to see them be assholes and call out other people and insult as many other people in the scene as they can. That's all the people want. They just want to see as much bm as possible from personalities because they can enjoy the drama and stuff from it without receiving any of the consequences themselves.
I even thought this tweet earlier in the day was borderline too calling out ongamers, the company he works for. Some companies will fire you for any negative remarks about them over social media. However, that comment is minor compared to the things he said about poland and its people.
On March 14 2014 03:42 KaiserJohan wrote: Corporatism at its best... jesus christ.
Can I bill you for the medical expenses I incurred due to my sides splitting?
It takes a seriously warped fucking mind to frame ESL as GIGANTIC CORPORATE INTEREST
Can I also point out the damn hypocrisy so frequently displayed by people here? Yes yes FREDUM OF SPEECH... EXCEPT WHEN ITS SOMETHING WE DONT LIKE, THEN WITCHHUNTING IT TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.
I don't think people are witchhunting here. Thorin has made his politic vievs open to public, which made him unemployed. His views are considered unacceptable in EU, but i can see him being influenced by GB politicians who try to win votes by using hatred towards immigrants, and so it happens, Poles are the main immigrant population, so they suffer the "hate" the most. Old EU may not understand it, but vast majority of Poles are very proud and absolutely despise ANY bad comments concerning Poland. We suffered too much throughout last 200 years and are trying very hard to rebuild what we've lost (and we're doing exceptionally well, at least we think so), so don't mind those mad polish comments.
On March 14 2014 04:29 5ukkub wrote: I don't think people are witchhunting here. Thorin has made his politic vievs open to public, which made him unemployed. His views are considered unacceptable in EU, but i can see him being influenced by GB politicians who try to win votes by using hatred towards immigrants, and so it happens, Poles are the main immigrant population, so they suffer the "hate" the most. Old EU may not understand it, but vast majority of Poles are very proud and absolutely despise ANY bad comments concerning Poland. We suffered too much throughout last 200 years and are trying very hard to rebuild what we've lost (and we're doing exceptionally well, at least we think so), so don't mind those mad polish comments.
Definately, I doubt there is any other european nation which has suffered worse in recent history. For me as a swede any sort of nationalism is completely alien to me so I find it absolutely fine to make such jokes but I can sort of see why they would object.
On March 14 2014 03:42 KaiserJohan wrote: Corporatism at its best... jesus christ.
Can I bill you for the medical expenses I incurred due to my sides splitting?
It takes a seriously warped fucking mind to frame ESL as GIGANTIC CORPORATE INTEREST
Can I also point out the damn hypocrisy so frequently displayed by people here? Yes yes FREDUM OF SPEECH... EXCEPT WHEN ITS SOMETHING WE DONT LIKE, THEN WITCHHUNTING IT TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.
Could you point me to the witch hunt? i dont see one.
On March 14 2014 03:42 KaiserJohan wrote: Corporatism at its best... jesus christ.
Can I bill you for the medical expenses I incurred due to my sides splitting?
It takes a seriously warped fucking mind to frame ESL as GIGANTIC CORPORATE INTEREST
Can I also point out the damn hypocrisy so frequently displayed by people here? Yes yes FREDUM OF SPEECH... EXCEPT WHEN ITS SOMETHING WE DONT LIKE, THEN WITCHHUNTING IT TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.
Could you point me to the witch hunt? i dont see one.
The point was more general, based on the history of community interaction with controversial issues within SC2. In my experience, people are absolutely in favour of "Freedom of Speech" until it's something they don't like, usually against someone more popular than the guy making the statement, at which point they will engage in witchhunting behavior.
The balance between play to win strategies versus the viewers entertainment. With play to win strategies I mean things that take advantage of the game on many levels and are designed to win out right. So proxies, cannon rushes, timing attacks, all ins. In this game usually those strategies are in the early game but it's whatever makes you win so even swarm hosts would be included.
Like being able to proxy gate and do early timing attacks in this game is great. It makes the early game have a risk too it, not scouting is a choice. Information war. If it was 10 minutes no rush then what would happen anyway? Wouldn't the point simply shift? And a player that build up a huge force and then attacked at the 10 minute mark win against the player that did nothing but expand and get 3 bases up?
But then it seems a majority doesn't think these play to win strategies entertaining enough even though I feel there is plenty going on behind the strategy that still makes it entertaining plus we don't see it that often anyway. Whereas it seems to me that in the fighting game community these strategies or plays are actually embraced. Why don't we have that consent in starcraft?
Things like how one could almost expect these kinds of strats to be used more throughout the whole tournament since it was winner takes all. And maybe what the difference is with winning a game with a proxy 2 gate, winning it with a timing attack or sitting back and macroing off 2 base and then steamrolling a win in the first engagement.
I would also draw in a caster point that by having a lot of "hype" casting especially in the early days you create viewers that enjoy "spectacular" engagements. I feel a lot of the background information on why every strategy that allows you to win is acceptable and should be respected is frequently missing, or at least in educating the viewer over the years it hasn't been prominent at all*. So then when you come to a series like the IEM finals it seems to me many weren't ready for it.
Now I'm not saying that back and forth games or series with a lot of harass and small engagements over long periods of time aren't the most exciting and entertaining to watch. But note that if that is the best, then everything else is "not good enough". I'm just wondering why there is such a hate towards those play to win strategies but why wet and wild arguably more uncontrolled less expert played games rate higher. And not to forget, if it was deathball games or super long swarmhost I'm sure we would see a similar cry out by what could very well be a vocal minority that they didn't enjoy that either.
I'm having some trouble formulating my points properly since I honestly can write up five times as much to explain my thoughts but I think the idea behind it has come across well enough now so I'm just gonna leave it like this. Think it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on it as it's quite a wide topic.
*I want to elaborate this as it's not intended to be mean and may come across as such. Simply saying that strategy made him win so it's perfectly fine is not really what I meant. I meant getting inside the game and the players to show the beauty behind making the decision to use such a strategy and how having such strategies in the game actually makes the game better. That it should be cherished. Make the viewer understand it honestly and they should be able to appreciate it. Something like that I feel hasn't gotten a lot of attention over the years. But from time to time it does get explained in a way I'm actually quite happy with the caster for doing that.
On March 14 2014 03:42 KaiserJohan wrote: Corporatism at its best... jesus christ.
Can I bill you for the medical expenses I incurred due to my sides splitting?
It takes a seriously warped fucking mind to frame ESL as GIGANTIC CORPORATE INTEREST
Can I also point out the damn hypocrisy so frequently displayed by people here? Yes yes FREDUM OF SPEECH... EXCEPT WHEN ITS SOMETHING WE DONT LIKE, THEN WITCHHUNTING IT TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.
On March 14 2014 03:42 KaiserJohan wrote: Corporatism at its best... jesus christ.
Can I bill you for the medical expenses I incurred due to my sides splitting?
It takes a seriously warped fucking mind to frame ESL as GIGANTIC CORPORATE INTEREST
Can I also point out the damn hypocrisy so frequently displayed by people here? Yes yes FREDUM OF SPEECH... EXCEPT WHEN ITS SOMETHING WE DONT LIKE, THEN WITCHHUNTING IT TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.
Some great topics this episode. I know people think Richard talks too much and Destiny too little but that's kinda Destiny's fault since a lot of the times he doesn't know the topic and has nothing to contribute. BTW I'm not angry at Root but we could use a decent progamer podcast again, I don't know why they stopped...
So for you who don't know, I have written a program which automatically converts DjWheats highlights on twitch to mp3 and host them on my site. I have now updated my program to include artosis and chanmanv highlights.
Fun episode. Concerning Geoff’s appearance, I’d say that stating Alex himself won’t publically admit his attitude changed, even when Richard approached him about it, is even more reason to be critical of Alex. It reminds me of Geoff’s reaction to unhappy fans contacting sponsors, you can’t expect people to support you by promoting you and thanking the sponsors when they’re happy but be quiet when they’re unhappy. So personally, it’s absolutely fine quote what Alex wrote before as long as refuses to publicly admit it.
ive always felt that the problem with reddit is that not all subreddits are created equal. there needs to be a clear divide between personal/community subreddits and subreddits that should be considered public domain.
when you have a sub that is a huge umbrella place for a whole group to post, whether its /r/news, /r/sports or /r/starcraft there needs to be some way to the community at large to choose the rules and the moderators. for all the talk on the show of the difficulty of moving your viewers off reddit, its just as hard to move your group to a new subreddit. once a sub gets to a certain size the reddit admins need to intervene and consider if they should take ultimate control away from the sub creator and to the community through some sort of election system. the exact way they do that doesnt matter to my point, but i think they need to do 'something'.
if your sub is about your work place or your warhammer group then you should have absolute control as the creator, like you do now. but it is some messed up place where a sub like /r/news is still controlled by possibly some random kid. while experienced users may know that /r/news isnt anything special in itself. the ability to give your sub a generic name (which sounds official) and the default subs system adds further credibility which newer users wont understand.
the current system allows special interests to dominate communities far more than advertising concerns, and the lack of control communities have over their news site is problematic.
I don't think they go into a discussion of diversifying strategies for companies and Destiny comparing it to how you personally invests shows a lack of understanding of finance theory.
"Just because your problems are greater, doesn't make my problems less." That's just a reality of life, and one I've dealt with before. They're completely right. Looking at things from the perspective of "it could be worse" doesn't make what you actually have any less of an issue for you.
On August 28 2014 12:19 vult wrote: I hope the show continues, and I hope ChanmanV can make occasional guest appearances to stay in touch with the community.
Someday, years down the line, while we're all freaking out about the Starcraft 3 Alpha and watching an ESPN analysis of the first day of TI14, we'll remember. We will remember Chanman, we will see how RTS never wound up dying after all, and we will smile, knowing the work put in by people in the early days, and knowing we were able to hear it all, on Unfiltered.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
it's only what the community deserves since chanmanv didn't get the necessary support doing a more serious, wholesome show :o
Waxangel, that might have some truth to it, but its not about the showing being “wholesome”. I watch all of DJWheat’s stuff and those shows can get really colorful at times. I do not want to see a truly toxic fan base reintroduced to the scene. We generate enough negativity on our own, we don’t need help. If Chan is not getting enough support, there are other ways for him to get more eyes on his shows and he should look into those first.
Really, dude, do you even think before you type this shit out?
Please tell me one person who has a truly "good" fanbase. The people in Idra's chat? Incontrol's chat? The average person that posts in scv threads or on screddit? Why do you even say shit like this?
If you're just going to stereotype or generalize every single fan I have to match the most extreme fans that I have, you could literally make ANYONE's fans look like terrible people.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
i just wanted to add my two cents here. every other day i have to hear someone say that starcraft 2 is dead, while GSL last night (ro16 grp A)was the most epic thing i have ever seen. the ONLY person we have to thank for coining the term "dead game" at all, for any game, is destiny. i dont care if you think i thought before i typed, but i'm tired of people who can't play real RTS saying that it is dead, just because some guy that has occasional well-said insights decided to make a stupid reddit thread before HotS even came out.
just frustrated. the show was decent, what i watched of it. i wish mobas had not taken over all of gaming. 200k placement matches for 1v1 in starcraft this season, while dota sees 9+ million players per month. i doubt LotV will change this, and its probably because starcraft is the more difficult game, on an individual level, due to 1v1.
i type this while i wait for the PTR to install, which apparently people need prize incentives to even play the damn game now, and apparently, we can't just have a client... i need to download 15 gigs just to try colors....
sorry for rant, just needed to get that off my chest at 3am, and not on facebook.
On August 29 2014 06:35 Heat_023 wrote: Did they manage to get IdrA to come on the show ?
Nope
Finally finished all the VoDs, good last show. I'll miss the show, especially ignoring Richard's league talk every week Best of luck to Chanman in his life and family, thanks for the effort you put in without fail.
Describing Richard Lewis and Destiny as "unfiltered" would be an understatement. It's like a dog off a leash. I can't even believe some of the stuff they say and don't delete the vod. Chanman is a great host.
On October 01 2015 21:38 TRaFFiC wrote: Describing Richard Lewis and Destiny as "unfiltered" would be an understatement. It's like a dog off a leash. I can't even believe some of the stuff they say and don't delete the vod. Chanman is a great host.
Thorin comes back on to the show. And holy crap. To put it lightly, him and Richard explain why they really don't like Slasher right now.
Edit: http://www.twitch.tv/destiny/v/37788637?t=03h59m19s Follow-up. Call between Chanman and Destiny about how Thorin expressed that he didn't want to be on a show with Destiny because they would just be shouting over each other. And then Destiny expressing that while he could see it that way, he specifically pointed out that he didn't think it was right to say that he didn't want to be on a show with him and then take pot shots at him on Twitter.
Thorin comes back on to the show. And holy crap. To put it lightly, him and Richard explain why they really don't like Slasher right now.
Edit: http://www.twitch.tv/destiny/v/37788637?t=03h59m19s Follow-up. Call between Chanman and Destiny about how Thorin expressed that he didn't want to be on a show with Destiny because they would just be shouting over each other. And then Destiny expressing that while he could see it that way, he specifically pointed out that he didn't think it was right to say that he didn't want to be on a show with him and then take pot shots at him on Twitter.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8DMSrwe.png)
gonna be fun to see how it turns out!
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bcx1rvACEAAkAGs.png)
