EG releases Ho Joon “PuMa” Lee - Page 27

ACrow

Germany6583 Posts

March 15 2013 16:40 GMT

#521

Gl Puma, gl EG

It's funny how they proclaim that it is all in good spirit and they are bff, even philosophize over it, only to go on that they fired him because he didn't agree to a pay cut. Not that it wasn't deserved, ever since 1-1-1 stopped working, he basically disappeared.

-niL

Canada1131 Posts

March 15 2013 16:48 GMT

#522

Pewma

PhoenixVoid

Canada32747 Posts

March 15 2013 16:48 GMT

#523

Did not expect this at all

gamerdude12345

Korea (South)378 Posts

March 15 2013 16:51 GMT

#524

Surprised that he turned down the offered contract.

Rinrun

Canada3509 Posts

March 15 2013 16:55 GMT

#525

Seeing this pop up in my feed made me go "ohhh damn."

GL to both sides going forward.

(Puma is going to come back with a vengeance)

mordk

Chile8385 Posts

March 15 2013 16:56 GMT

#526

On March 16 2013 01:55 Rinrun wrote:
Seeing this pop up in my feed made me go "ohhh damn."

GL to both sides going forward.

(Puma is going to come back with a vengeance)

I don't see this happening at all. Puma is just not really good at this game that's all. Not being able to break into code A even once speaks volumes about his level amongst koreans.

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

March 15 2013 16:56 GMT

#527

On March 16 2013 01:16 Grovbolle wrote:

Show nested quote +

You mean with respect? Because I have read all the press releases and statements regarding players leaving, (Haypro, Jinro, Tyler and Puma) and they seem respectful all of them. Both those made be Nazgul and Alex.

Alex's comments on Puma seem very cutting to me. Maybe accurate, but a little gruff for a PR release. I thought Anna's were good.

I always feel like Naz strikes the perfect balance of honesty and sentimentality, but I'm also biased.

Not a big deal either way. Gl to Puma.

-Archangel-

Croatia7457 Posts

March 15 2013 17:08 GMT

#528

I am the only one that is not surprised at all by this?

Logan_ps

United Kingdom118 Posts

March 15 2013 17:09 GMT

#529

Sad to see him go. Refreshing to read such an unambiguous announcement. Good luck to Puma and EG. I'm sure you both know what you are doing.

Sakray

France2198 Posts

March 15 2013 17:17 GMT

#530

So many haters, it's almost funny

Boucot

France15997 Posts

March 15 2013 17:18 GMT

#531

compLexity, Clarity or Quantic.

derpface

Sweden925 Posts

March 15 2013 17:20 GMT

#532

On March 16 2013 02:08 -Archangel- wrote:
I am the only one that is not surprised at all by this?

Nope. Also JYP lucked out by winning some games in PL. If he wouldnt have done that I think he would have been handled the same way.

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

March 15 2013 17:20 GMT

#533

I like this press release more than almost any other I've read. I don't even think it had much fluff, if anything it was brutally honest. His performance was lackluster, they were willing to keep him for a salary decrease, but he definitely did not deserve to be one of the highest Korean paid players. In fact, they offered to renegotiate a contract allowing him to focus on participating in foreign tournaments, an area which undoubtedly has high expenses, when it's not even a priority for the team.

Well done EG, gl PuMa.

Defacer

Canada5052 Posts

March 15 2013 17:24 GMT

#534

On March 15 2013 22:29 Pokebunny wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 15 2013 20:49 Zealos wrote:

On March 15 2013 19:53 dabom88 wrote:

On March 15 2013 19:49 Defacer wrote:

On March 15 2013 19:36 Rannasha wrote:

On March 15 2013 19:23 Technique wrote:

On March 15 2013 19:08 dabom88 wrote:

On March 15 2013 18:48 Technique wrote:

On March 15 2013 18:33 dabom88 wrote:

On March 15 2013 18:27 Technique wrote:
[quote]
No cause he ain't Korean.

In sc2 only Koreans are held to a high standard.

Posts like this are the reason why there needs to be a mod note on top of this topic.

Once again, every progamer is judged on whether they're bringing EG (or any e-sports team) more money than they're paying them. It's called Return on Investment (ROI). This return is based off EG Brand Exposure and EG Sponsorship exposure, which can be judged in numerous ways, including tournament results.

They didn't think Puma was bringing in enough of a return, so they tried to negotiate a lower salary to reflect what he was bringing in for them. Puma said no, so they let him go. They didn't just kick him out for not producing results like people who post stuff like this seem to think.

He's still #12 in the tournament earnings, only other EG member higher is Stephano who played in way more tournaments.

What he's achieved in the past matters less than the results he's achieving now when negotiating a new contract, which reflect the state Puma is in in the present and what they can expect of him in future. He hasn't placed high in tournaments since March of 2012. He hasn't been producing many results in general. He can't speak English, he never streamed much, barely tweeted, was not part of any promotional team activities, and in all this time did not really make any visible effort to become better at speaking English like other fellow Koreans on foreign teams (MC, Polt, Crank, HerO, JYP, GanZi just to name a few) have.

As a result, the only thing he had to offer in brand/sponsorship exposure was game and tournament results. And when he hasn't been winning important games, such as in Korea's most prestigious team league, or placing high in tournaments in the past year, he wasn't generating enough brand and sponsor exposure to justify how much they were paying him. So, and I can't believe I'm repeating this again, they offered him a lower salary to better reflect his current state and the return on the investment they expected from him over course of the new contract period. He refused, and since they expected to lose money on their investment in Puma with his current salary, they had to let him go.

You are only proving my initial point... Koreans are held to a much higher standard compared to foreigners...

Highly achieved Korean player starting to win less? Ok take a big cut in your paycheck or leave the team...
That's all this is...

It's not like anyone besides Stephano done well in EG lately and Puma most likely already makes less than most foreigners... hence why they say he's ''one of the highest paid Korean on our team''.

Of course Koreans are held to higher standards, the average Korean player is a lot less marketable than the average foreign player of similar skill. To expose the public to your sponsors you need to either win a lot or stream a lot and interact with fans. The EG foreigners do a very good job at making themselves and their sponsors visible. The Koreans not so much, partly due to the language barrier, partly due to the fact that Koreans tend to not show their personality as much.

Ummm ... I can barely remember seeing Puma stream games, let alone mention sponsors or exhibit any kind of personality. Already, I've seen Jaedong's stream up longer and more often than Puma's.

I think Huk is eventually going to get a slap on the wrist, too. I don't think EG is going to tolerate players that get paid very well, don't post results AND don't proactively promote their sponsors or increase their exposure.

People can complain all they want about IdrA or InControl or Demuslim but those guys plug Raidcall and show off their Razer wares constantly. They're doing the dirty work of pimping sponsors while players in Korea are underperforming and acting like delicate, mute snowflakes.

And the important thing is, even if Huk or ANY OTHER PLAYER does get a "slap on the wrist" in the form of a lower salary, which probably does happen or has happened in the past, you wont hear about it because that's bad publicity for EG, and the players are NDA'd from revealing their salary or specifications about contract negotiations.

The only time you would hear about a lowered salary is if they leave the team.

Why should the salary of players be public information exactly?

Because it helps players negotiate - if ppl knew how bad some salaries were...

I have no idea how much Machine makes in salary, but I'm sure that it would not be enough to live if he didn't get free room and board, or coach on the side.

InControl probably gets paid less from EG than people think as well, but is able to supplement his income with hosting gigs, coaching, a job for his wife, room and board, etc.

polysciguy

United States488 Posts

March 15 2013 17:25 GMT

#535

the release was pretty much the brutal honest truth, though it could have been fluffed up a bit to make it not so cutting. Im curious to know if puma released a statement. I know that happens alot when players part ways and the team puts out a nice fluffy pr release that the player doesn't agree with, so im wondering if puma has a different take on it. Not saying that their is anything more to the story, just that im curious to see pumas reaction to being released

zoLo

United States5896 Posts

March 15 2013 17:27 GMT

#536

On March 16 2013 01:40 ACrow wrote:
Gl Puma, gl EG

It's funny how they proclaim that it is all in good spirit and they are bff, even philosophize over it, only to go on that they fired him because he didn't agree to a pay cut. Not that it wasn't deserved, ever since 1-1-1 stopped working, he basically disappeared.

Fired? More like he left because he didn't like EG's new offer. They were more than willing to let him stay.

LimeNade

United States2125 Posts

March 15 2013 17:33 GMT

#537

On March 16 2013 01:30 GoodSirTets wrote:
If EG starts releasing players who show poor results disproportionate to their high salaries, they're going to have a small roster indeed...

huh? That's why when contracts are up you try to restructure a players contract with less money with more incentives. That way the team up front doesn't take the major hit of taking on a big salary again but the player has the potential to earn close to what they earned the previous year. The problem is players who are performing really badly will not want to do this because they feel that they deserve the same amount they earned the previous year. Same thing happens in sports all the time.

Also if they do get a smaller roster by offloading the heaviest salaries with the lowest return from a player in terms of performance this is only a good thing for EG. They can then invest that money probably at a lower cost for a player who will perform way better then puma has this past 6 months for his results in korea especially in proleague.

WikidSik

Canada382 Posts

March 15 2013 17:41 GMT

#538

i think the way this press release was one is great. Sure Liquid is alot sweeter when they let players go, but thats because Liquid has different intentions in mind when they choose ppl for their teams I believe EG wants results, while Liquid wants potential and "special players" that they can raise on their own, regardless of their current results. Also with machine, he is only good for EG because he is IDra's side kick, and an OG member of EG. Maybe hes done a lot of work in setting the sc division back when it was announced in bw.

andrewnguyener

United States548 Posts

March 15 2013 17:44 GMT

#539

Sad to see PuMa go

His play as been slacking though. Understandable that they'd let him go. GL to both parties!

Greendotz

United Kingdom2053 Posts

March 15 2013 17:45 GMT

#540

Kind of sad news, to me Puma seemed to be the first player in Wings who truely dominated the foreign scene for finite amount of time. Has been a long while since the days of Puma vs Hero, wonder if he'll ever make that kind of impact again?

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EG releases Ho Joon “PuMa” Lee - Page 27

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