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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
I'm starting to notice a trend in names when I look at a hackers battle.net profile and of their ranked teams/placement matches.
Just by looking at vEnCiDos profile you can see a lot of names mentioned quite a bit in this thread...and maybe possibly, other unknown hackers.. Just a thought.
Also, to the replay posted above:
1. Instantly sends a probe to your unscouted base right when the game starts, shift ques around the inside of your base.
2. 00:45-00:53 - Watching your base in fog of war (still unscouted)
3. Right when you go to make your first pylon near your ramp, he sees this and stops his probe from coming into your base and sits outside at your nat.
4. 1:27 - looks in the fog of war again
5: 1:35 - looks in the fog of war again, to look at your probe.
I quit watching after that. I'm sure there was more things but just the first minute and a half pretty much confirmed he is using maphacks. Game is only 6+ minutes long if anyone wants to make a better list.
Updated list since i can't sleep and the other list was pretty meh:
Hacker: vEnCiDo #387
Server: NA
Rank: Grandmaster
Battle.net Profile: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2927712/1/vEnCiDo/ladder/
TL Account: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=vEnCiDo
Replay: http://drop.sc/243647
Map: Antiga Shipyard
Type of hack: Map Hack
0:05 - looks at your base in fog of war and instantly sends probe to your base that he hasn't scouted yet.
0:08 - shift ques probe along the side, inside your unscouted base leading down the side a bit.
0:41 - looks through fog of war at your base. (unscouted)
0:43 - looks again through fog of war at your base. (unscouted)
0:47 - looks yet again, at your base through fog of war. (waiting to see where your initial probe goes obviously)
0:52 - looks again, at your base through fog of war. Sees your building a pylon near your ramp and instantly reacts, sending his probe originally going into your base, to behind the mineral line at your natural.
1:13 - starts pylon outside your base at your nat. to the side of your unscouted base.
1:23 - looks again through fog of war at the pylon at your ramp. (unscouted base still)
1:25 - moves camera to the right of where he was looking inside your unscouted base through the fog of war at the probe your sending out.
1:30 - looks at your probe through fog of war leaving your unscouted base.
1:35 - looks down at your probe again through fog of war.
1:40 - he sends one of his own probes outside his natural to prepare for your scout.
1:45 - if you actually look at the everyone screen, he clicks exactly where you click to send your probe. Not once but a few times.
1:51 - he starts proxy gate outside your natural, by your unscouted base.
1:57 - acts like his probe is scouting to deter your probe about to leave fog of war into yours/his real vision. Causing you to turn and scout south. (He tried to be slick)
2:06 - builds 2nd gateway at your unscouted base.
2:09 - looks through fog of war at your base to see the forge you just started.
2:14 - looks through fog of war and rallys his gates inside on the other side of your pylon and forge.
2:22 - looks through fog of war again at your unscouted base.
2:47 - cancels 1 gateway and starts a forge outside your unscouted base.
2:58 - probe is patrolling outside his base by his ramp exactly where the three pylons you're gonna place are.
3:08 - looks through fog of war at your base and rallys his gateway to your unscouted base.
3:11 - looks at his probe patrolling where your three pylons aren't even started yet outside his base. (can see you pre-que'd them)
3:19 - positions his probe so its inside by the wall where your pylons are about to be placed right before he even has vision of your probe. (he was hoping to stop your cannon rush he never scouted)
3:41 - looks through fog of war again at your unscouted base and moves zealot to it.
Pretty much confirmed. Too much evidence just from 1 replay, other replays are welcomed though.
Seems he has a bit of history people know about: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6232223649?page=6#105
Another post in this thread with a guy claiming he has replays: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340614¤tpage=84#1675
Ironic post:
On August 22 2012 20:28 vEnCiDo wrote:
ha, i maphack xD.
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On August 27 2012 12:12 PanN wrote:You should really explain what you think people should be looking for. Posting a replay and saying "guyz look at dis he hack here proof!" is really fucking lazy.
sorry, but you can tell he is hacker from the begining of the game^^
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On August 27 2012 13:14 nBk wrote:I'm starting to notice a trend in names when I look at a hackers battle.net profile and of their ranked teams/placement matches. Just by looking at vEnCiDos profile you can see a lot of names mentioned quite a bit in this thread...and maybe possibly, other unknown hackers.. Just a thought. Also, to the replay posted above: 1. Instantly sends a probe to your unscouted base right when the game starts, shift ques around the inside of your base. 2. 00:45-00:53 - Watching your base in fog of war (still unscouted) 3. Right when you go to make your first pylon near your ramp, he sees this and stops his probe from coming into your base and sits outside at your nat. 4. 1:27 - looks in the fog of war again 5: 1:35 - looks in the fog of war again, to look at your probe. I quit watching after that. I'm sure there was more things but just the first minute and a half pretty much confirmed he is using maphacks. Game is only 6+ minutes long if anyone wants to make a better list.
Thanks for the time stamps
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On August 27 2012 13:14 nBk wrote:I'm starting to notice a trend in names when I look at a hackers battle.net profile and of their ranked teams/placement matches. Just by looking at vEnCiDos profile you can see a lot of names mentioned quite a bit in this thread...and maybe possibly, other unknown hackers.. Just a thought. Also, to the replay posted above: 1. Instantly sends a probe to your unscouted base right when the game starts, shift ques around the inside of your base. 2. 00:45-00:53 - Watching your base in fog of war (still unscouted) 3. Right when you go to make your first pylon near your ramp, he sees this and stops his probe from coming into your base and sits outside at your nat. 4. 1:27 - looks in the fog of war again 5: 1:35 - looks in the fog of war again, to look at your probe. I quit watching after that. I'm sure there was more things but just the first minute and a half pretty much confirmed he is using maphacks. Game is only 6+ minutes long if anyone wants to make a better list.
1:12 proxy 2 gate without scouting on antigua, - pretty much confirmed since he's peaking at the opponent base throught fog (where the forge is at) and then puts a probe on patrol down his ramp to block the canon rush. I'd like more replays of vencido, if anyone has please post them here.
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I think you are confused, if you zoom in on the stalkers on "normal" speed, During the fight
I de-select my stalkers and blink one back and then re select the stalkers really quickly, To add on to that, my blink stalker micro isn't at all perfect, most of the stalkers are hit two times before blinks back.
EDIT: I'm Alcohlol, after the game i didn't know why all of the stalkers were selected either, so i assumed it was a glitch, but when you micro stalkers you want to have them selected to target things, and when you blink back a stalker the stalker blinked back doesn't attack so you have to select them to target again.
EDIT2: OP edit. Alcohlol is my smurf account
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If only Stallion was around, he knows a lot about Josh (Vencido) and others. Anyways, found a cute VOD of Macgregor which I did not know he was Malinger which explains why he sucks and pays to get leveled yet again from Battleboy to Malinger. Is this considered trolling?
If so, why are all the people being accused friends with confirmed hackers? Like zwei said, he is only focused on 1v1 top ranked players. No need to mention trashy diamonds which have been mentioned in the previous 4 pages. I still love you Zoo & Illu.
@PandaLove
He messaged you regardless and the only proof available is him asking for your information, not your smurf information. Either way, you don't get paid or achieve anything on Starcraft 2 so there is no need for anyone to care anymore about accusing panda which I've played with before and he wasn't hacking.
Like a wise man once said, there are no master players in the master channel, supson channel, xs channel and mkc channel. Just P's and D's.
Ban all hackers blizzard!
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Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse.
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1:59 - Sends probe to your base, lucky scout? Yep.
3:53 - Instead of bringing probe back to base, at the exact time you stop your scv at his natural (while his probe is coming back to his nat) he turns and puts his probe near destructable rocks. (??) (later on was used to hide robo)
3:58 - Starts stalker - Shift ques it twice on the side of his base in the fog of war to check for your scv it seems (normal)
4:12 - Checks same spot he que'd stalker to go to when it comes out with his probe (normal)
4:31 - shift ques (attk cmd) stalker around his base, then to his natural. (normal)
5:56 - Puts down 3 more gates (4 gate blink build with robo for obs)
Everything looks pretty normal. No maphacks, nada.
7:57 - clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal)
8:07 - Goes up your ramp, clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal)
8:11 - loses 1 stalker (happens)
8:16 - Selects 1 stalker and blinks it (each time he blinks you can see all the stalkers not selected for a split second and 1 blinks back) (Set your replay speed to *normal* to see this)
Once again, normal. No blink hack, nada.
edit: reviewed the rest of the replay and all the stalkers that was blinked was manually selected before they blinked.
My sc2 crashed after this sadly, but everything seems fine.
When you analyze your replays and you think something is up make sure you set your replay speed to normal, so you can see these things before making accusations.
On August 27 2012 14:58 skeldark wrote:
Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse.
This is why people need to understand before posting to have actual proof and look over their own replays for obvious things and make a list of them.
Another edit: Should make a small guide(format to post as well) in the OP on how to spot map hackers/blink hackers in their replays before they accuse/post so the thread does not fill up with a bunch of false accusations. Which in turn is kinda discrediting to the point of this thread.
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@nBk Not to mention, it's a discredit to the accused, thanks for all of the time you dedicate to this thread by the way, I'm impressed with how many replays you go through
@zwei thanks for work
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On August 27 2012 15:51 Robbie! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:03 nBk wrote:1:59 - Sends probe to your base, lucky scout? Yep. 3:53 - Instead of bringing probe back to base, at the exact time you stop your scv at his natural (while his probe is coming back to his nat) he turns and puts his probe near destructable rocks. (??) (later on was used to hide robo) 3:58 - Starts stalker - Shift ques it twice on the side of his base in the fog of war to check for your scv it seems (normal) 4:12 - Checks same spot he que'd stalker to go to when it comes out with his probe (normal) 4:31 - shift ques (attk cmd) stalker around his base, then to his natural. (normal) 5:56 - Puts down 3 more gates (4 gate blink build with robo for obs) Everything looks pretty normal. No maphacks, nada. 7:57 - clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:07 - Goes up your ramp, clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:11 - loses 1 stalker (happens) 8:16 - Selects 1 stalker and blinks it (each time he blinks you can see all the stalkers not selected for a split second and 1 blinks back) (Set your replay speed to * normal* to see this) Once again, normal. No blink hack, nada. My sc2 crashed after this sadly, but everything seems fine. When you analyze your replays and you think something is up make sure you set your replay speed to normal, so you can see these things before making accusations. On August 27 2012 14:58 skeldark wrote:
Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse. This is why people need to understand before posting to have actual proof and look over their own replays for obvious things and make a list of them. Another edit: Should make a small guide(format to post as well) in the OP on how to spot map hackers/blink hackers in their replays before they accuse/post so the thread does not fill up with a bunch of false accusations. Which in turn is kinda discrediting to the point of this thread. Not to mention, it's a discredit to the accused, thanks for all of the time you dedicate to this thread by the way, I'm impressed with how many replays you go through
I've reviewed many but always lurked this thread instead of posting until today. Figured i'd try to help out the community since i think this type of stuff is cheap and ruins the fun for everyone.
edit king: Should be thanking ZweiGaming instead of me, he puts in way more work than i ever have.
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On August 27 2012 15:55 ZweiGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:03 nBk wrote:1:59 - Sends probe to your base, lucky scout? Yep. 3:53 - Instead of bringing probe back to base, at the exact time you stop your scv at his natural (while his probe is coming back to his nat) he turns and puts his probe near destructable rocks. (??) (later on was used to hide robo) 3:58 - Starts stalker - Shift ques it twice on the side of his base in the fog of war to check for your scv it seems (normal) 4:12 - Checks same spot he que'd stalker to go to when it comes out with his probe (normal) 4:31 - shift ques (attk cmd) stalker around his base, then to his natural. (normal) 5:56 - Puts down 3 more gates (4 gate blink build with robo for obs) Everything looks pretty normal. No maphacks, nada. 7:57 - clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:07 - Goes up your ramp, clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:11 - loses 1 stalker (happens) 8:16 - Selects 1 stalker and blinks it (each time he blinks you can see all the stalkers not selected for a split second and 1 blinks back) (Set your replay speed to * normal* to see this) Once again, normal. No blink hack, nada. My sc2 crashed after this sadly, but everything seems fine. When you analyze your replays and you think something is up make sure you set your replay speed to normal, so you can see these things before making accusations. On August 27 2012 14:58 skeldark wrote:
Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse. This is why people need to understand before posting to have actual proof and look over their own replays for obvious things and make a list of them. Another edit: Should make a small guide(format to post as well) in the OP on how to spot map hackers/blink hackers in their replays before they accuse/post so the thread does not fill up with a bunch of false accusations. Which in turn is kinda discrediting to the point of this thread. Funny enough, Alcohol is the guy who played against vEnCiDo in avilo's replay, i'll check for some of his replays too.
Thats a report from me, vEnCiDo confessed to hacking to me after i called him out, then i posted it here
EDIT: To clarify I am alcohlol, and I beat avilo, but earlier i played vEnCiDo, and... coincidentally reported it to this thread and checked back later only to see avilo posts an accusation about me, which i try clarifying above, sorry for the confusion, that will probably clarify a little.
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^edited for the edit in above post, i need sleep.
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On August 27 2012 15:57 Robbie! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:55 ZweiGaming wrote:On August 27 2012 15:03 nBk wrote:1:59 - Sends probe to your base, lucky scout? Yep. 3:53 - Instead of bringing probe back to base, at the exact time you stop your scv at his natural (while his probe is coming back to his nat) he turns and puts his probe near destructable rocks. (??) (later on was used to hide robo) 3:58 - Starts stalker - Shift ques it twice on the side of his base in the fog of war to check for your scv it seems (normal) 4:12 - Checks same spot he que'd stalker to go to when it comes out with his probe (normal) 4:31 - shift ques (attk cmd) stalker around his base, then to his natural. (normal) 5:56 - Puts down 3 more gates (4 gate blink build with robo for obs) Everything looks pretty normal. No maphacks, nada. 7:57 - clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:07 - Goes up your ramp, clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:11 - loses 1 stalker (happens) 8:16 - Selects 1 stalker and blinks it (each time he blinks you can see all the stalkers not selected for a split second and 1 blinks back) (Set your replay speed to * normal* to see this) Once again, normal. No blink hack, nada. My sc2 crashed after this sadly, but everything seems fine. When you analyze your replays and you think something is up make sure you set your replay speed to normal, so you can see these things before making accusations. On August 27 2012 14:58 skeldark wrote:
Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse. This is why people need to understand before posting to have actual proof and look over their own replays for obvious things and make a list of them. Another edit: Should make a small guide(format to post as well) in the OP on how to spot map hackers/blink hackers in their replays before they accuse/post so the thread does not fill up with a bunch of false accusations. Which in turn is kinda discrediting to the point of this thread. Funny enough, Alcohol is the guy who played against vEnCiDo in avilo's replay, i'll check for some of his replays too. Thats a report from me, vEnCiDo confessed to hacking to me after i called him out, then i posted it here
Oh, well i've found few other replays of him, i'll look through them.
Nothing special in alcohlol's play. He selects his stalkers one by one to blink, though he does it really quickly which means if you watched at like 4x speed, you won't have noticed it.
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On August 27 2012 16:11 ZweiGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:57 Robbie! wrote:On August 27 2012 15:55 ZweiGaming wrote:On August 27 2012 15:03 nBk wrote:1:59 - Sends probe to your base, lucky scout? Yep. 3:53 - Instead of bringing probe back to base, at the exact time you stop your scv at his natural (while his probe is coming back to his nat) he turns and puts his probe near destructable rocks. (??) (later on was used to hide robo) 3:58 - Starts stalker - Shift ques it twice on the side of his base in the fog of war to check for your scv it seems (normal) 4:12 - Checks same spot he que'd stalker to go to when it comes out with his probe (normal) 4:31 - shift ques (attk cmd) stalker around his base, then to his natural. (normal) 5:56 - Puts down 3 more gates (4 gate blink build with robo for obs) Everything looks pretty normal. No maphacks, nada. 7:57 - clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:07 - Goes up your ramp, clicks 1 stalker and blinks back (normal) 8:11 - loses 1 stalker (happens) 8:16 - Selects 1 stalker and blinks it (each time he blinks you can see all the stalkers not selected for a split second and 1 blinks back) (Set your replay speed to * normal* to see this) Once again, normal. No blink hack, nada. My sc2 crashed after this sadly, but everything seems fine. When you analyze your replays and you think something is up make sure you set your replay speed to normal, so you can see these things before making accusations. On August 27 2012 14:58 skeldark wrote:
Anyone can come here and accuse everyone he wants.
And you guys think thats the solution?
This thread is more a list of bad losers than a cheater list.
Even if some guys check the replays and try to find "evidence", this dont change the whole direction this thread went.
Everyone who accuse someone else of cheating and is wrong is not better than an cheater.
In fact i think hes worse. This is why people need to understand before posting to have actual proof and look over their own replays for obvious things and make a list of them. Another edit: Should make a small guide(format to post as well) in the OP on how to spot map hackers/blink hackers in their replays before they accuse/post so the thread does not fill up with a bunch of false accusations. Which in turn is kinda discrediting to the point of this thread. Funny enough, Alcohol is the guy who played against vEnCiDo in avilo's replay, i'll check for some of his replays too. Thats a report from me, vEnCiDo confessed to hacking to me after i called him out, then i posted it here Oh, well i've found few other replays of him, i'll look through them.
That's good, I've already searched vEnCiDo on teamliquid under Title and Content and quite a few were posted
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my friend told me that there are people hunting down superhero.
i've played him 3 times and each time he cannon rushed me, he did it with a perfect first scout.
now it was only 3 games, 2 of which we were close positions, but he did it x position on tal darim altar as well -_-
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On August 27 2012 16:58 Gamegene wrote:
my friend told me that there are people hunting down superhero.
i've played him 3 times and each time he cannon rushed me, he did it with a perfect first scout.
now it was only 3 games, 2 of which we were close positions, but he did it x position on tal darim altar as well -_-
This information doesn't really help the thread, i'd recommend that you link a replay of him and his profile
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On August 27 2012 13:14 nBk wrote:I'm starting to notice a trend in names when I look at a hackers battle.net profile and of their ranked teams/placement matches. Just by looking at vEnCiDos profile you can see a lot of names mentioned quite a bit in this thread...and maybe possibly, other unknown hackers.. Just a thought. Also, to the replay posted above: 1. Instantly sends a probe to your unscouted base right when the game starts, shift ques around the inside of your base.
2. 00:45-00:53 - Watching your base in fog of war (still unscouted)
3. Right when you go to make your first pylon near your ramp, he sees this and stops his probe from coming into your base and sits outside at your nat.
4. 1:27 - looks in the fog of war again
5: 1:35 - looks in the fog of war again, to look at your probe.
I quit watching after that. I'm sure there was more things but just the first minute and a half pretty much confirmed he is using maphacks. Game is only 6+ minutes long if anyone wants to make a better list.Updated list since i can't sleep and the other list was pretty meh: Hacker: vEnCiDo #387Server: NA Rank: Grandmaster Battle.net Profile: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2927712/1/vEnCiDo/ladder/TL Account: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=vEnCiDoReplay: http://drop.sc/243647Map: Antiga Shipyard Type of hack: Map Hack 0:05 - looks at your base in fog of war and instantly sends probe to your base that he hasn't scouted yet. 0:08 - shift ques probe along the side, inside your unscouted base leading down the side a bit. 0:41 - looks through fog of war at your base. (unscouted) 0:43 - looks again through fog of war at your base. (unscouted) 0:47 - looks yet again, at your base through fog of war. (waiting to see where your initial probe goes obviously) 0:52 - looks again, at your base through fog of war. Sees your building a pylon near your ramp and instantly reacts, sending his probe originally going into your base, to behind the mineral line at your natural. 1:13 - starts pylon outside your base at your nat. to the side of your unscouted base. 1:23 - looks again through fog of war at the pylon at your ramp. (unscouted base still) 1:25 - moves camera to the right of where he was looking inside your unscouted base through the fog of war at the probe your sending out. 1:30 - looks at your probe through fog of war leaving your unscouted base. 1:35 - looks down at your probe again through fog of war. 1:40 - he sends one of his own probes outside his natural to prepare for your scout. 1:45 - if you actually look at the everyone screen, he clicks exactly where you click to send your probe. Not once but a few times. 1:51 - he starts proxy gate outside your natural, by your unscouted base. 1:57 - acts like his probe is scouting to deter your probe about to leave fog of war into yours/his real vision. Causing you to turn and scout south. (He tried to be slick) 2:06 - builds 2nd gateway at your unscouted base. 2:09 - looks through fog of war at your base to see the forge you just started. 2:14 - looks through fog of war and rallys his gates inside on the other side of your pylon and forge. 2:22 - looks through fog of war again at your unscouted base. 2:47 - cancels 1 gateway and starts a forge outside your unscouted base. 2:58 - probe is patrolling outside his base by his ramp exactly where the three pylons you're gonna place are. 3:08 - looks through fog of war at your base and rallys his gateway to your unscouted base. 3:11 - looks at his probe patrolling where your three pylons aren't even started yet outside his base. (can see you pre-que'd them) 3:19 - positions his probe so its inside by the wall where your pylons are about to be placed right before he even has vision of your probe. (he was hoping to stop your cannon rush he never scouted) 3:41 - looks through fog of war again at your unscouted base and moves zealot to it. Pretty much confirmed. Too much evidence just from 1 replay, other replays are welcomed though. Seems he has a bit of history people know about: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6232223649?page=6#105Another post in this thread with a guy claiming he has replays: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340614¤tpage=84#1675Ironic post:
Thanks to have noted all the timings! On a side note, I think there is more than 1 player on vencido's account. One that plays zerg and one that plays toss.
http://drop.sc/242803 - z
http://drop.sc/242802 - z
http://drop.sc/242801 - z
Watched over those 3 quickly, but I haven't seen anything as suspicious as when he played toss. Would anyone have more protoss replay of vencido?
I've went over the hotkey's used by the zerg/protoss vencido, the zerg one seems to spam a lot and have various hotkeys, as the toss one barely uses any hotkeys. I think it would be safe to assume that someone else is playing protoss (and hacked) on the account:
Toss apm
![[image loading]](http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/bobby_978/vencidotoss.png)
Zerg apm
![[image loading]](http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/bobby_978/vencidoapm3.png)
![[image loading]](http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/bobby_978/Vencidoapm2.png)
![[image loading]](http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/bobby_978/Vencidoapm.png)
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EPT
