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SjoW and Dignitas part ways - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
440 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 23 Next All
ssxsilver
Profile Joined June 2007
United States4409 Posts
March 01 2012 23:27 GMT
#241
My favorite thing about team leagues is watching the Sjow/Select bromance. This is sad news. =(
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
March 01 2012 23:30 GMT
#242
On March 02 2012 08:27 ssxsilver wrote:
My favorite thing about team leagues is watching the Sjow/Select bromance. This is sad news. =(

Bromance works cross-team as well, it's just a little more awkward.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
March 01 2012 23:31 GMT
#243
On March 02 2012 08:30 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:27 ssxsilver wrote:
My favorite thing about team leagues is watching the Sjow/Select bromance. This is sad news. =(

Bromance works cross-team as well, it's just a little more awkward.


Yep :D
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Phobbers
Profile Joined May 2011
773 Posts
March 01 2012 23:32 GMT
#244
On March 02 2012 08:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was by mentioning FruitDealers position on that money ranking.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?


Then your argument was horseshit to begin with. SC2earnings also shows where that money came from which taken in combination with the earnings ranking is extremely useful and solid information. If you choose to discard that to make some strawman logical fallacy then that's your own business.

How was his argument horseshit to begin with? He was calling someone out for saying X won a lot of money, must be good! In no way did he say sjow was bad, he was just pointing out that HERP DERP LOTs O MONEY doesn't mean obligatory good. You sir need to calm down when called out.
EG/C9/ALL/TSM
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:33:01
March 01 2012 23:32 GMT
#245
On March 02 2012 08:13 Elem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?
If you earned that much money outside of winning the GSL you've won quite a number of tournaments. Usually this means you're pretty damn good.

Hardly. IPL4 will give 100k in prizes, Stephano got like 70 or 80k from IPL3 - MLG was giving 5k per event last season except for the final. Polt got 100k off GSL Super tournament. Prize winnings is a terrible metric for how good someone is.

For reference, sjow is ELO Rank: 51st in TLPD international.
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:35:24
March 01 2012 23:32 GMT
#246
On March 02 2012 08:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was by mentioning FruitDealers position on that money ranking.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?


Then your argument was horseshit to begin with. SC2earnings also shows where that money came from which taken in combination with the earnings ranking is extremely useful and solid information. If you choose to discard that to make some strawman logical fallacy then that's your own business.


I never said it's useful information, I never said it wasn't solid.

I'm saying that just because you earned more money than other doesn't mean you're better than others. There ARE cases where it's true, MVP and NesTea being a good example. However, there are players who are much better than Sjow who have earned less according to those rankings. An obvious factor being time played, Sjow has been around since the beta. If you're semi-successful it's obvious that you'll earn a decent chunk of money from it. That doesn't mean that he's better than people who are beneath him on that ranking.

Now, I need to ask you again. Which argument are you saying was horseshit? Because I don't really understand what you're calling me out for. Why the hell are you getting touchy haha? Do you actually think that Sjow is skilled due to the fact that he earned alot of money? And what the hell is my "strawman logical fallacy"...?

EDIT: What Kennigit said above me .
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
DrN0
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom184 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:35:43
March 01 2012 23:35 GMT
#247
Can we not agree that our judgement of the player's skill is largely subjective, and therefore moot? regardless he was one of the bigger names in the dignitas line up there is definitely a lot more to this then we have been told seen as we have been told next to nothing.
Nurmis
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland81 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:38:33
March 01 2012 23:37 GMT
#248
On March 02 2012 08:32 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:13 Elem wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?
If you earned that much money outside of winning the GSL you've won quite a number of tournaments. Usually this means you're pretty damn good.

Hardly. IPL4 will give 100k in prizes, Stephano got like 70 or 80k from IPL3 - MLG was giving 5k per event last season except for the final. Polt got 100k off GSL Super tournament. Prize winnings is a terrible metric for how good someone is.

For reference, sjow is ELO Rank: 51st in TLPD international.

Stephano got 30k from IPL 3. And still has 92k winnings
ThorZaIN | Leenock | Elfi | Dimaga | HayprO | Kas
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38257 Posts
March 01 2012 23:37 GMT
#249
On March 02 2012 08:32 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:13 Elem wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?
If you earned that much money outside of winning the GSL you've won quite a number of tournaments. Usually this means you're pretty damn good.

Hardly. IPL4 will give 100k in prizes, Stephano got like 70 or 80k from IPL3 - MLG was giving 5k per event last season except for the final. Polt got 100k off GSL Super tournament. Prize winnings is a terrible metric for how good someone is.

For reference, sjow is ELO Rank: 51st in TLPD international.


While I appreciate the sentiment behind the post let's keep facts accurate. Stephano won $30k from IPL 3.
Kiichol
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden182 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:43:39
March 01 2012 23:38 GMT
#250
On March 02 2012 08:32 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:13 Elem wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?
If you earned that much money outside of winning the GSL you've won quite a number of tournaments. Usually this means you're pretty damn good.

Hardly. IPL4 will give 100k in prizes, Stephano got like 70 or 80k from IPL3 - MLG was giving 5k per event last season except for the final. Polt got 100k off GSL Super tournament. Prize winnings is a terrible metric for how good someone is.

For reference, sjow is ELO Rank: 51st in TLPD international.


You are indeed correct sir,

However it is a fine measure of how hard working someone is! Sjow has won a large number of small tournaments to get to that ranking. What was stopping any other Pro player from joining the same tournaments (dis-regarding the invite only tournaments) thus deterring Sjow from victory? Sjow clearly wants to win whether the prize pool is big small or virtually non-existant.

Therefore in my eyes. He is a valuable player.

Your first reply was a strawman. You answered in a way that the person you responded to probably didn't mean. Even if he did you filled in the blanks and went off on a tangent. We are talking about Sjow and his accomplishements


Agree'd with poster below me. I was not linking his earnings as some sort of trophy that meant something. But rather as what I'm referring to in this post here.
-edit
“In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.” - Oscar Wilde
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:41:17
March 01 2012 23:38 GMT
#251
On March 02 2012 08:31 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:30 nihlon wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:27 ssxsilver wrote:
My favorite thing about team leagues is watching the Sjow/Select bromance. This is sad news. =(

Bromance works cross-team as well, it's just a little more awkward.


Yep :D


Lol!

On March 02 2012 08:32 sereniity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was by mentioning FruitDealers position on that money ranking.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?


Then your argument was horseshit to begin with. SC2earnings also shows where that money came from which taken in combination with the earnings ranking is extremely useful and solid information. If you choose to discard that to make some strawman logical fallacy then that's your own business.


I never said it's useful information, I never said it wasn't solid.

I'm saying that just because you earned more money than other doesn't mean you're better than others. There ARE cases where it's true, MVP and NesTea being a good example. However, there are players who are much better than Sjow who have earned less according to those rankings. An obvious factor being time played, Sjow has been around since the beta. If you're semi-successful it's obvious that you'll earn a decent chunk of money from it. That doesn't mean that he's better than people who are beneath him on that ranking.

Now, I need to ask you again. Which argument are you saying was horseshit? Because I don't really understand what you're calling me out for. Why the hell are you getting touchy haha? Do you actually think that Sjow is skilled due to the fact that he earned alot of money? And what the hell is my "strawman logical fallacy"...?

EDIT: What Kennigit said above me .


Your first reply was a strawman. You answered in a way that the person you responded to probably didn't mean. Even if he did you filled in the blanks, put words in his mouth and went off on a tangent. We are talking about Sjow and his accomplishements not the value of money earned in general.
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
March 01 2012 23:39 GMT
#252
On March 02 2012 06:39 Fusilero wrote:
EmpireSjow because Empire are the foreign team that needs more terrans.

Kas>enough terrans
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 23:43:32
March 01 2012 23:41 GMT
#253
On March 02 2012 08:38 nam nam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:31 AlternativeEgo wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:30 nihlon wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:27 ssxsilver wrote:
My favorite thing about team leagues is watching the Sjow/Select bromance. This is sad news. =(

Bromance works cross-team as well, it's just a little more awkward.


Yep :D


Lol!

Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:32 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was by mentioning FruitDealers position on that money ranking.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?


Then your argument was horseshit to begin with. SC2earnings also shows where that money came from which taken in combination with the earnings ranking is extremely useful and solid information. If you choose to discard that to make some strawman logical fallacy then that's your own business.


I never said it's useful information, I never said it wasn't solid.

I'm saying that just because you earned more money than other doesn't mean you're better than others. There ARE cases where it's true, MVP and NesTea being a good example. However, there are players who are much better than Sjow who have earned less according to those rankings. An obvious factor being time played, Sjow has been around since the beta. If you're semi-successful it's obvious that you'll earn a decent chunk of money from it. That doesn't mean that he's better than people who are beneath him on that ranking.

Now, I need to ask you again. Which argument are you saying was horseshit? Because I don't really understand what you're calling me out for. Why the hell are you getting touchy haha? Do you actually think that Sjow is skilled due to the fact that he earned alot of money? And what the hell is my "strawman logical fallacy"...?

EDIT: What Kennigit said above me .


Your first reply was a strawman. You answered in a way that the person you responded to probably didn't mean. Even if he did you filled in the blanks, put words in his mouth and went off on a tangent. We are talking about Sjow and his accomplishements not the value of money earned in general.


My reply was meant to be elaborated by the reader.

With people like Fruitdealer on a spot like 8 which I pointed out you can draw the conclusion that moneyrankings aren't the best ways to rank player skill, which was my point.

The guy said that if you doubt his ability then look at his money rankings. How the hell am I putting words into his mouth and "going off on a tangent"? If anyone went off on a tangent it's TB rofl.
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
shanelevy
Profile Joined December 2011
United States23 Posts
March 01 2012 23:41 GMT
#254
TotalBiscuit, the original post was relating skill to earnings rank, not where those earnings came from. That is what Sereniity took issue with, and he is right. What are you arguing about?
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
March 01 2012 23:43 GMT
#255
On March 02 2012 08:32 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:13 Elem wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:12 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 02 2012 08:03 sereniity wrote:
On March 02 2012 07:49 Kiichol wrote:
http://sc2earnings.com/

Sjow is ranked 19th Globally in earnings through Starcraft 2 competitions.
So anyone doubting his ability has a rude awakening coming.


Yeah and FruitDealer is 8th...

Your argument is invalid.


Sjow has won more than one tournament outside the beta, your argument is dogshit. He's actually won a ton of tournaments, as you'd know if you clicked Liquipedia.


Oh, and what is MY argument exactly? I was pointing out how bad his argument of "earned alot of money - must be good" was.

So, now please explain to me what my argument was now again?
If you earned that much money outside of winning the GSL you've won quite a number of tournaments. Usually this means you're pretty damn good.

Hardly. IPL4 will give 100k in prizes, Stephano got like 70 or 80k from IPL3 - MLG was giving 5k per event last season except for the final. Polt got 100k off GSL Super tournament. Prize winnings is a terrible metric for how good someone is.

For reference, sjow is ELO Rank: 51st in TLPD international.
IPL3 was 30K, IIRC. As I said in my post before that, that is assuming no GSL money (as winning 1 GSL means you get more than any foreigner apart from the top5.)

To directly compare skill prize winnings is quite an awful metric. But if you use it in a reasonable way you can actually show(dohoho) that a player isn't completely worthless.

As for going by TLPD:

By your idea RS_Soulman and DDE are better than players like NaDa, DIMAGA and Kas. Not saying ELO ranking is a pure shit system but it has just as many flaws as it relies on that you play in a lot of tournaments or get a couple of "lucky" wins vs a person in the top of the ELO ranking.

SEA players are the best example of how flawed the ELO ranking system can be at times, imo. Though just like prize winnings it can be used as an argument if used reasonably (for example not screaming "STEPHANO BEST FOREIGNER #1 ELO!!!!!")
#freeshauni
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6600 Posts
March 01 2012 23:49 GMT
#256
Best of luck to Sjow in the future. Awesome Terran player
LiquidDota Staff
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
March 02 2012 00:01 GMT
#257
can we not have this thread be about how much which player has earned, and instead post about how sad we are that he is leaving dig? . No doubt he will be picked up by a strong team, just not sure which one.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
ki11z0ne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States427 Posts
March 02 2012 00:04 GMT
#258
mlg needed to be better is what i think there were banking on...=/
SC > halo
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
March 02 2012 00:06 GMT
#259
Well, there are a lot of teams out there missing good terrans in their rosters. So I'm sure he'll find a decent team soon.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 00:08:06
March 02 2012 00:07 GMT
#260
On March 02 2012 09:01 Darkhoarse wrote:
can we not have this thread be about how much which player has earned, and instead post about how sad we are that he is leaving dig? . No doubt he will be picked up by a strong team, just not sure which one.
This isn't about who has earned the most. This is about some people being silly and putting down SjoW's achievements, implying that he isn't that great of a player. Which is very, very wrong.
#freeshauni
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