Hello everyone! It's time for some more details concerning our IPL4 live event in Las Vegas, Nevada, running April 6th-8th!
First up, we have received confirmation from our final invitee, and have drawn up our finalized groups with that information in mind! Keep in mind that each group will still have two empty spots that will be filled with players from the live, open qualifier. Here are the groups:
Group A: coLMVP.TAiLS (Live event Qualifier) FnaticRaidCall.aLive (Online Qualifier) IM.NesTea (Invitee) Live Qualifier (Winners Bracket) Live Qualifier (Losers Bracket)
Group B: MarineKingPrime (Live event Qualifier) Mill.Stephano (IPL3 Winner / Invitee) White-Ra (IPL2 Winner / Invitee) Live Qualifier (Winners Bracket) Live Qualifier (Losers Bracket)
Group C: EG.PuMa (Online Qualifier) TSL.Polt (Online Qualifier) SK.MC (Invitee) Live Qualifier (Winners Bracket) Live Qualifier (Losers Bracket)
Group D: ST.Bomber (Online Qualifier) SlayerS`MMA (Invitee) EG.IdrA (IPL1 Winner / Invitee) Live Qualifier (Winners Bracket) Live Qualifier (Losers Bracket)
Now for some important information regarding our first ever premium stream pricing:
Many people will have questions about if we will have a paywall, and if we do, details about it. We've finalized our plans and are excited about sharing it now. Making sure that people can enjoy our content for free is a top priority for us, and we also want to increase the quality we offer.
Recently we've made a big investment and upgraded all of our equipment to support true 1080p HD quality! On top of that, we've decided that instead of having streams entirely behind a paywall, all of our streams will be available for free! That includes the LiveU cam, which had a lot of great content at IPL3. To help us recoup part of the costs, we have partnered up with Twitch.tv, and have come up with a compelling subscription-based deal of $5 per month for the 1080p and 720p stream. All other resolutions will be 100% free.
This package will cover ALL of our events, whether they are online, or live. Regardless of whether they are in North America, or anywhere in the world. There will be no additional fees, period.
We feel this is the right balance of increasing the quality of our content, but not forcing undue costs to our viewers. Hopefully you agree.
If you are currently an IGN Prime member, we want to make sure you can take advantage of this offer, so we will offer a one time opportunity to migrate from IGN Prime to our new Twitch.tv subscription page. Details on that are still to come.
To do a quick sum-up, all of our streams can be viewed for free on 480p or lower, 720p and 1080p will cost $5 per month, for all of our content, no matter if it is a live event or an online event. IGN Prime users will be given the chance to switch over to this model soon.
This paid subscription model will take effect the first week of April, with IPL4 being the first of our events to be covered by it. All of our streams will continue to be free in all resolutions until IPL4.
Thank you very much for your continued support and please leave any questions or comments here, we read every post!
Looks great! I prefer a free low quality stream then paid HD streams, makes sense to me that you pay for a premium quality product. The invited players are pretty sick too.
1080p is great, and the value seems there! 480p, if properly encoded, still looks really great for a free stream so I definitely support this decision and I'll be picking up my pass
Wow IPL4 is going to be so good with all of the content they are putting out for $5, can't see idra advancing with korean terrans like MMA and bomber in his group.
Yes, this is the price model I want. Fuck all you fair-weather models all I need is IPL! Seriously, this is exactly how it should be done. Take notes mlg.
Hyped for this, and IPL just feel... likable is perhaps the right word. Don´t know what´s the difference but I like to watch your events. Good luck with the IPL4, and if your OP would have a link to the subscription you might have my money already
Great pricing, but as someone who lives 90% of his time in Europe, I am worried about your partnership with Twitch.tv. Twitch.tv has been consistently underperforming in Europe since its origins as Justin.tv. I regretted purchasing an MLG Arena pass after being treated to hours of slideshows.
For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
On February 28 2012 05:43 WigglingSquid wrote: Great pricing, but as someone who lives 90% of his time in Europe, I am worried about your partnership with Twitch.tv. Twitch.tv has been consistently underperforming in Europe since its origins as Justin.tv. I regretted purchasing an MLG Arena pass after being treated to hours of slideshows.
This. I hope Twitch gets it shit together (on a good day they work fine, on a bad one they are a slide show).
$5 for a month is super nice i will most likely get it when IPL4 is on because i super loved IPL3. IGN is just getting better and better i do wish on your team leagues you let HD/pain user cast more myself
Btw as it is $5 a month will it auto take money for next month or will i have to pay again?
I like the freemium model. People who can`t pay the 5$ can still enjoy the event in an ok videoquality and talk with their friends about it on the next day. On top of that I personnaly am more willing to support companys that follow this model. I am really looking forward to the behind-the-scene cam, since it was awesome during the last IPL.
group of death Group C: WhiteRa never seems to excel in group play, Nestea in slump, and Puma has being doing well lately, enough to make him almost on par with MC and Polt.
Wow, lovely looking groups already. Gogo Stephano!
See I reckon IPL will bring in a lot of money with this 5$ per month, more than one would think. Hope it works out well because IPL certainly know how to produce great content. Hoping for more live tourneys rather than replay casting.
On February 28 2012 05:54 MinimalistSC2 wrote: group of death Group C: WhiteRa never seems to excel in group play, Nestea in slump, and Puma has being doing well lately, enough to make him almost on par with MC and Polt.
Group B very close though
I can see that people did not watch the tournaments this weekend...
I hope MKP will make this his 3rd tournament win in 2012.
for the price of a $5 dollar subway, i get to watch a weekend worth of content from amazing production ign is known for. Sounds to good to be true. All i need now is my Total Busicuit and Dapollo to make this event even more amazing. You got my money ign.
Any chance we can watch IPL on mobile devices for those of us going to PAX East?
If your mobile supports flash, it is pretty easy. If it doesn't, I think twitch.tv has or plans on getting an app for the iOS.
Twitch.tv has an app for stream viewing on iOS - Problem is, that alot of streamers choose to disable viewing on mobile devices, as you do not get the same geographical spread of adds that you can run on stream I hope that Twitch fixes this somehow at a point down the line
This is an awesome deal btw, and a pretty good PR-move; I think alot of people will buy it, even some of the people who are watching in sub-720p resolutions; Mostly thanks to the cost/value discussion that MLG started (And took a hell of a beating for!)
Great move, I will buy it - And I look forward to the event in Vegas!
On February 28 2012 05:48 Denzil wrote: IdrA finally gets to play against a Terran
Lately that hasn't been much of a reprieve for him; i'd love him to get his ZvT back to the level it was before his recent slump because he looked unbeatable in that match up. He is in a pretty tough group so far, despite both players being terran, they are both so damn solid.
Group C is just ridiculous - i feel sorry for the open qualifiers lol!
It feels like IPL is always doinh things a little later and significantly more smoothly than its peers. I wonder if that is their plan; to sacrifice innovation for consistent quality.
On February 28 2012 05:59 johnny123 wrote: for the price of a $5 dollar subway, i get to watch a weekend worth of content from amazing production ign is known for. Sounds to good to be true. All i need now is my Total Busicuit and Dapollo to make this event even more amazing. You got my money ign.
Not only a weekend of IPL4 but an entire month of IPL content in 1080p for that $5, ballin' Super, super excited for IPL4.
I was thinking that Idra got a bad group here, but all groups look pretty tough. Maybe he'd have an easier time if he got Stephano's place, MKP & W-Ra might be weaker than Bomber & MMA. Could still go 1-1 though, he's beaten Bomber in the past.
"If you are currently an IGN Prime member, we want to make sure you can take advantage of this offer, so we will offer a one time opportunity to migrate from IGN Prime to our new Twitch.tv subscription page. Details on that are still to come."
That's how you do it. I'll make sure to pay for at least IPL, even if I'm unable to watch it live.
I think 5$ for 1080p is a fair deal. Still have some reservations regarding twitch, though. Let's hope they get their European servers up by then. Otherwise the 1080p stream will be unwatchable for some people.
The line-up is pretty sick, too. However, I'd like to see a couple more foreigners at the event. Hopefully some foreign blood makes it through the qualifiers
$5 a month for 1080 and 720..its a fantastic deal. take my money on this one... MLG needs to learn a lot I guess..But whatever...this is a sick deal. $5 for a weekend is awesome...$5 for the whole month..zomgggggggggggggg.. its similar to the day9 subscription thing
MarinekingPrime is looking to win another tournament. Group C is already looking really strong though if polt keeps playing really well like he did at Assembly. Hopefully Nestea starts playing well so group A can be pretty sick too.
On February 28 2012 05:48 Denzil wrote: IdrA finally gets to play against a Terran
Lately that hasn't been much of a reprieve for him; i'd love him to get his ZvT back to the level it was before his recent slump because he looked unbeatable in that match up. He is in a pretty tough group so far, despite both players being terran, they are both so damn solid.
Group C is just ridiculous - i feel sorry for the open qualifiers lol!
How abt the two ppl qualify for group C are genius and drg? Do you still feel sry for them?
On February 28 2012 06:10 TERRANLOL wrote: I'm thinking about going to this event for my birthday.. but for MLG they had these recommended hotels. What are they for this event?
We will be releasing hotel packages as soon as we get them from our hotel!
On February 28 2012 05:48 Denzil wrote: IdrA finally gets to play against a Terran
Lately that hasn't been much of a reprieve for him; i'd love him to get his ZvT back to the level it was before his recent slump because he looked unbeatable in that match up. He is in a pretty tough group so far, despite both players being terran, they are both so damn solid.
Group C is just ridiculous - i feel sorry for the open qualifiers lol!
How abt the two ppl qualify for group C are genius and drg? Do you still feel sry for them?
Yea because Genius and DRG can still drop games. I would want easier opponents. less of a risk even if I was the favorite
I was one of the people who worked during the IPL3 event and I have to step up and say -
The biggest priority for the IPL Staff, from the bottom of the ladder up to David Ting himself, was a quality Starcraft 2 experience for the fans, the players, and for E-Sports. They definitely get my 5 dollars because their main priority for hosting these events is over all quality. Love them and everyone in their team that works so hard to produce quality entertainment.
Brilliant! Love the payment solution, love the tournament itself... and yes, for this kind of content I'll gladly play $5. Not for the higher quality (my internet sucks), but for the fact that this is the way I want to support the community: by paying small amounts of money (that I can afford) for a good (in this case crazy) amount of content.
I recently only knew about MLG and GSL, but with this I will make sure to follow IPL as well
On February 28 2012 06:10 TERRANLOL wrote: I'm thinking about going to this event for my birthday.. but for MLG they had these recommended hotels. What are they for this event?
We will be releasing hotel packages as soon as we get them from our hotel!
My birthday is on April 3rd, so I might actually be in town for this too. If I am I will definitely stop in in-between my drunken ramblings lol Good event inc.
This is how it's done. With $5 for a whole month I will be gladly paying, and I cannot imagine any sc2 fan with a credit/debit card who won't think this is a great deal. That, and also not alienating any of the other members of the community + any potential new fans that might want to check out this whole "esports starcraft 2" thing.
PS: A bit more offtopic, Go go Foxer If he plays like at MLG he's got a good shot!
On February 28 2012 06:33 slkeene wrote: Group D: Bomber, MMA, Idra...
Why? You get 1 free win against IdrA. In the other groups you don't even get that.
5$ for HD is a good deal, might go and actually buy that.
And the shit talking begins. Also, many people seem to be over looking when this event is occurring. April is not tomorrow, Idra has a lot of time to prepare for this event, and hopefully by that point he will conquer his greatest enemy, himself.
"To help us recoup part of the costs, we have partnered up with Twitch.tv, and have come up with a compelling subscription-based deal of $5 per month for the 1080p and 720p stream. All other resolutions will be 100% free."
Take that MLG ^^ IPL seems to raise the bar higher each event!
Well, this thread has turned into absolute shit. Memes, off-topic PPV whining, mindless Idra bashing, posts in all-caps... There's an awesome tournament, how about we actually discuss it.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
So? This has nothing to do with the fact that trying out 20 dollars for a weekend was their first attempt at taking their product to a PPV model. Regardless of if it's easier or not for IGN to do this, they are going about it the right way. MLG could have easily tried 5 or 10 dollars for their first attempt and they did not do that. I have a sour taste in my mouth about MLG because of this, and am SO excited about IPL 4 now and the way they went about this.
On February 28 2012 06:52 Ghanburighan wrote: Well, this thread has turned into absolute shit. Memes, off-topic PPV whining, mindless Idra bashing, posts in all-caps... There's an awesome tournament, how about we actually discuss it.
Ya I resisted saying something similar to this because I really don't want to contribute to it, but I can't help it now... it is getting really fucking annoying. Can people stop trying to talk down on things and just appreciate this tournament?
Now just to make sure: There had been rumors of a GSTL finals being held at IPL. I assume that this was not for IPL 4 correct, since the finals are scheduled for two weeks later? Or will a playoff match or semis be played at IPL 4? Or was all the hype for a future season?
Well I will gladly pay those $5 to see IdrA loose to mma as well as to bomber. And on the other Hand i think i will pay those 5bugs while saying something like "Ya, show those MLG Sundance guy how you do something for the fans as well as for esports"
On February 28 2012 06:53 Thurken wrote: Mlg was telling us that paying 15-20$ a weekend was the only way to save them and to save esport. Now we see that it was just ridiculous.
Well done IPL4 =)
IGN is much bigger though. Newsgroup is the biggest news group of the world and their financial backing is Microsoft-like. So when IPL is starting to plan to be profitable, they have a longer time before the banks come knocking at their doors.
You guys think those groups are tough now? Wait until the live qualifiers are filled in. The roster signing up is impeccable so far and I'm betting on almost all Code Sers being there once the pool closes. That's where your winner will come from IMO. Fighting through the best to be 1 of 8 will give them serious momentum.
On February 28 2012 06:53 Thurken wrote: Mlg was telling us that paying 15-20$ a weekend was the only way to save them and to save esport. Now we see that it was just ridiculous.
Well done IPL4 =)
IGN is much bigger though. Newsgroup is the biggest news group of the world and their financial backing is Microsoft-like. So when IPL is starting to plan to be profitable, they have a longer time before the banks come knocking at their doors.
having a giant corporation subsidizing for us is a great plus. microsoft subsidized xbox for years and look where its gotten them - to the top of the console world. if MLG doesnt have the money to make esports big then im glad IGN can.
On February 28 2012 07:00 Artisane wrote: Umm. I'm on a two year sub for IGN Prime. I certainly hope those of us in that position don't get screwed over with this switch.
Been part of the IGN community since the PlanetQuake days, before IGN took over actually.
The Op said there's an opportunity to switch integrated in the new system or am i mistaken?
I love the way you treat your customers. I had bought IGN Prime for the IPL 3, and got a ton of quality content for it while knowing that everyone was still able to watch for free.
So I will gladly support IPL once again, count me in for the subscription !
my only qualm about paying for HD content with twitch tv is lag...It's a hit a miss, sometimes i get no lag at 1080p, and sometimes i get a ton of lag on 720p.
On February 28 2012 07:05 Denar wrote: I love the way you treat your customers. I had bought IGN Prime for the IPL 3, and got a ton of quality content for it while knowing that everyone was still able to watch for free.
So I will gladly support IPL once again, count me in for the subscription !
More professional org top down. For all the talk about truckloads of money backing them they started small low key with low profile casters and grown slowly like most successful businesses. Meanwhile MLG has wall street tastes on lemon-aid stand income.
how long do you have to have a subscription for? in other words can you buy a months sub for this tourney and then cancel the sub? thus paying $5 for this tourney and not having to commit to anything else?
On February 28 2012 06:55 Bagration wrote: Now just to make sure: There had been rumors of a GSTL finals being held at IPL. I assume that this was not for IPL 4 correct, since the finals are scheduled for two weeks later? Or will a playoff match or semis be played at IPL 4? Or was all the hype for a future season?
Good things come to those who wait.
On February 28 2012 07:00 Artisane wrote: Umm. I'm on a two year sub for IGN Prime. I certainly hope those of us in that position don't get screwed over with this switch.
Been part of the IGN community since the PlanetQuake days, before IGN took over actually.
We definitely don't want to upset our fantastic fans who bought and supported us with Prime accounts, so there will be an option to transfer your account to the IPL subscription!
Looks good, I'll pay as long as they don't make unsubscribing from recurring payments too difficult (e.g. by requiring phone calls and whatnot). Like other people say, I would actually be willing to pay more than $5, especially because I appreciate IPL's approach of providing free low quality stream unlike MLG Arena.
I think there every tournament should have a free option and ppv options for extra stuff like gls and ipl. as much as mlg tries to defend themselves, they are shutting out a chunk of the community
On February 28 2012 07:17 Aquilla wrote: I think there every tournament should have a free option and ppv options for extra stuff like gls and ipl. as much as mlg tries to defend themselves, they are shutting out a chunk of the community
i think its obvious by now that $20 ppv weekend isnt needed for esports, its just needed for MLG. esports will do fine with IPL/GSL.
On February 28 2012 07:09 dragonborn wrote: IdrA is free win for MMA&Bomber, i bet they are happy for being same group with IdrA
How is Bomber's status nowadays? I don't follow GSL but I have picked up that his play is not that strong lately.
He is largely regarded as someone who could do well in Code A. His appearances in GSTL are usually good enough to warrant a bit of hype, but not many people still think of him as a "missing champion".
Btw, will there be a season 3 of the team arena challenge? Wouldn't it be cool if you would invite the top 4 of that to IPL 5 to play out the semifinals and final live on a big stage? :D
Gonna subscribe for sure, as I watch the ign stream a lot anyways.
Man MC playing in group with his two nemesis. Never beat Polt in a series 0-2 and is 1-2 series wise vs PuMa. Better be practicing my man! That said - a lot of the shit (cough 1/1/1) they won with has been weakend since.
Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
I'm really pumped for groups C and D - Polt, Puma, and MC are 3 of the worlds best and same with Group D. I'm really pulling for Bomber - I'm a Bomber fan boy hahah but I'm a huge MMA fan as well. Should be an insane event!
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
Looking good guys. LQ free streams with the HQ paid streams is always the best option. You're guaranteed giant view numbers, and the people that can afford to help out eSports a bit get to enjoy some HQ streams.
Awesome decision, can't wait to see IPL4! ^_^ A lot of Koreans in the groups though D:
I think IdrA has a damn good chance of getting out of his group. His best matchup is ZvT and he's been training in the slayers house with tons of amazing terrans. IDRA FIGHTING!!
On February 28 2012 06:55 Bagration wrote: Now just to make sure: There had been rumors of a GSTL finals being held at IPL. I assume that this was not for IPL 4 correct, since the finals are scheduled for two weeks later? Or will a playoff match or semis be played at IPL 4? Or was all the hype for a future season?
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
welcome to the real world.
I seriously doubt IPL has blown through 50 million in angel capital like MLG with offices in expensive Manhattan, high profile employees, recycling employees, huge unprofitable events, and so forth. They are taking slow and steady approach so I'm not even sure how their backers are that relevant other than keeping a tight lid on spending and spending is allowed when warranted. I'm sure who ever runs this has to make weekly/monthly presentations to his boss for more capital. Newscorp didn't get to where they are by just letting fan boys loose with 50 million.
The list of players looks amazing but there may be too many korean terrans. The foreigners may have some trouble dealing with them as the skill gap between koren terran and foreign terran is very high so they don't find decent practice partner, and GoMTvT left mixed feeling to me.
I don't know what da fck is doing Idra there... Okay , May be cuz the fans.. but let us be honest actually, he sucks and I think that there are better players.. stupid arrogant. -.-!
On February 28 2012 07:54 Nazeron wrote: really excited for this, just really dont like the whole subscription thing, would rather have a one time deal for that particular event
5$ for IPL4 only would still be awesone. Take the rest as it if was a bonus.
On February 28 2012 07:54 Thurken wrote: The list of players looks amazing but there may be too many korean terrans. The foreigners may have some trouble dealing with them as the skill gap between koren terran and foreign terran is very high so they don't find decent practice partner, and GoMTvT left mixed feeling to me.
Guys what can they do? These Korean terrans qualified. Terrans dominate GSL too what else is new? They only have a couple invits and they gave one to MC one to Nestea non Terrans and MMA a terran. All top tier S class and deserving. They can't give out too many invites or it's no longer a merit based competition but an invitational. Just wait until open slots are filled. Maybe it won't be all-terran-all-the-time with new patches and other race playing well.
On February 28 2012 07:59 ZBusterZ wrote: I don't know what da fck is doing Idra there... Okay , May be cuz the fans.. but let us be honest actually, he sucks and I think that there are better players.. stupid arrogant. -.-!
English please? Its simple, Idra won IPL1 and brings in tons of viewers. Hopefully it will be his 2012 breakout.
Brilliant to release this after the $20 MLG event. I'll definitely be picking up a $5 pass. Get some new casters and you will become my favorite non-GSL league/event.
On February 28 2012 07:59 ZBusterZ wrote: I don't know what da fck is doing Idra there... Okay , May be cuz the fans.. but let us be honest actually, he sucks and I think that there are better players.. stupid arrogant. -.-!
Idra is a IPL winner all IPL winners were welcome back. Would be just a little unfair to exclude idra don't you think? Plus he has fans. I'd invite him if he wernt an IPL winner and I don[t even like him.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
To be honest I think $5 is too cheap. It probably sounds silly complaining about the IPL giving us a good deal, but I don't like that this sets the bar so low for future tournaments.
IPL can afford to provide such a low price point because IGN is obviously very financially stable. They can afford to to put money into the IPL and not necessarily make much of a profit now because they realize there will be profit in the future.
$5 for a month of content is such a great deal for fans that I'm worried people will consider this price point standard. The fact that everyone is already comparing to MLG and saying how much better a deal it is a bad sign IMO. I'm not defending MLG or anything, they definitely did some things poorly. But there is nothing wrong with taking steps towards making Starcraft 2 a profitable industry. They just tried to take too big a step.
Depending on who will cast (besides the standard IPL guys) I'll certainly pay, I just payed 20 for mlg, 5 for IPL seems only fair. Also good to see that most of the preseeded players this time around are koreans, hope we get some more top notch foreigners/koreans to fill those remaining spot, should be good games.
At people playing the price game: If MLG had IGN behind them they'd only charge 5 bucks too.... Also I doubt IPL will pay all player flights and hotels.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
+ With a big part of the viewer beeing students and/or pupils without anybig of an income - but never the less with the will to support their favorite computer game - guess what brings more money: 25 000 x$5 or 2500 x $20?
€: + You normally get bunch more money out of sponsors by simply having more people watching the stream, which makes up for higher income though adds -> free stream = more viewer in that simple case.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
+ With a big part of the viewer beeing students and/or pupils without anybig of an income - but never the less with the will to support their favorite computer game - guess what brings more money: 25 000 x$5 or 2500 x $20?
€: + You normally get bunch more money out of sponsors by simply having more people watching the stream, which makes up for higher income though adds -> free stream = more viewer in that simple case.
stop making up stats jesus..you don't know the demographic so how can you pull numbers out your ass. And stating 8 is more than 6 is really quite bright -___-
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
Everyone in the industry was telling sundance he was nuts at that price point but he went ahead anyway. Read/listen Scoots post/ $5-10 a very small minority would have given them heat, that it. It was so bad very few orgs even agreed to co-sponsor and they couldof made money from it. So it's not like Sundance didn't have notes to take from.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
Everyone in the industry was telling sundance he was nuts at that price point but he went ahead anyway. Read/listen Scoots post/ $5-10 a very small minority would have given them heat, that it.
"Everyone in the industry" I missed that post.... Just talk about the event and keep your sweeping statements, generalization and economic wisdom to yourself.
I just want to point out that the MLG Winter Arena was a special event which I think cost an extraordinary amount of $$$ to put on. They flew all the players out to NYC on MLG's dime and they brought in Tasteless and Artosis from Korea, along with DJWheat and managed to get the highest number of top players together in one tournament than I've ever heard of (outside of the GSL Super Tournament), and also included foreigner fan favorites who were able to compete at that level. Also, MLG Winter Arena brought in 32 players while IPL4 is at 20 players.
I wonder how much IPL4 actually costs to put on, and how much they plan to recoup from live attendees. But even if the costs of IPL4 are comparable, I just want to give props to the MLG Winter Arena for managing to fly in and secure the absolute best in casters and players, both from Korea and the rest of the world. I would say it's the first event of its kind. I don't think IPL4 will be able to match it in that respect (they may be able to come close in terms of player representation, but I doubt they'll get Tastosis).
Also, Day 1 of MLG Winter Arena was epic to watch (and be in chat for) live
Looks like it's going to be a good tournament. Does anybody know if there's going to be another stream like there was for IPL 3 with Lani? That was pretty entertaining, lol.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
Everyone in the industry was telling sundance he was nuts at that price point but he went ahead anyway. Read/listen Scoots post/ $5-10 a very small minority would have given them heat, that it.
"Everyone in the industry" I missed that post.... Just talk about the event and keep your sweeping statements, generalization and economic wisdom to yourself.
Is no generalization. Tune in to STOG, the threads about it, the interview with scoots/sundance. Everyone saying it was too much and Sundances' ridiculous oh well gotta start somewhere without any thought to others view.
On February 28 2012 08:19 tdt wrote: Well I went ahead and got 2 VIP passes for this and I'm a Ferengi. One for my bro one for me. Hope I meet MC!
Love everything about IPL professionalism, casters, weekly events, business model.
I wanted to get the VIP passes, but I couldn't justify it with my wife after we got the VIP seats for NASL, and it was garbage.
Yeah I was hoping for some more details as VIP description is rather nebulous but I didnt hear back. Here's hoping for the best. You'll be damn sure to hear about it if it;s a bad value.
Disappointing that 720p won't be for free now, but I totally approve of this method. 5$ is so cheap too... will definitely consider doing it for a full month of coverage!
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
Everyone in the industry was telling sundance he was nuts at that price point but he went ahead anyway. Read/listen Scoots post/ $5-10 a very small minority would have given them heat, that it.
"Everyone in the industry" I missed that post.... Just talk about the event and keep your sweeping statements, generalization and economic wisdom to yourself.
Is no generalization. Tune in to STOG, the threads about it, the interview with scoots/sundance. Everyone saying it was too much and Sundances' ridiculous oh well gotta start somewhere without any thought to others view.
you said everyone in the industry and then list 2 people and then state everyone again, I am not de-railing this thread any further by arguing with idiots.
On February 28 2012 08:15 VATO_Gandair wrote: IdrA vs korean terrans, those are gonna be awesome matches. Depending on who else is in that group I think IdrA's got it. His ZvT is great.
Idra got is versus MMA and Bomber? lol i dont thinks so MMA like best TvZer in the world and Bombers Is very good 2 Idra dont stand a chance imo
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
But in the end they both want to make money, so if IPL can do that with charging 5$ a month, i'd understand that MLG could charge 50% higher but not 400% higher for just a weekend of content instead of a whole month.
You don't know the cost of the event or have the data to justify any price it was the first ppv event in this media type, MLG came before IPL announced their price. It is like saying that a local bakery should "take notes" from the supermarket cost of bread it doesn't make any economic sense.
Everyone in the industry was telling sundance he was nuts at that price point but he went ahead anyway. Read/listen Scoots post/ $5-10 a very small minority would have given them heat, that it.
"Everyone in the industry" I missed that post.... Just talk about the event and keep your sweeping statements, generalization and economic wisdom to yourself.
Is no generalization. Tune in to STOG, the threads about it, the interview with scoots/sundance. Everyone saying it was too much and Sundances' ridiculous oh well gotta start somewhere without any thought to others view.
you said everyone in the industry and then list 2 people and then state everyone again, I am not de-railing this thread any further by arguing with idiots.
Not my problem you can't be bothered to look up how everyone thought it was too much and Sundances ego just overinflated his assets worth.
LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
On February 28 2012 08:15 VATO_Gandair wrote: IdrA vs korean terrans, those are gonna be awesome matches. Depending on who else is in that group I think IdrA's got it. His ZvT is great.
Idra got is versus MMA and Bomber? lol i dont thinks so MMA like best TvZer in the world and Bombers Is very good 2 Idra dont stand a chance imo
Idra did beat Bomber the last(?) time they met. Luck? Maybe, but I think your stand is a bit strong.
Excellent job, IPL. 480p for free and excellent content, with frequent rebroadcasts, great casters and no ridiculous hours. IPL is quickly becoming my favorite producer of everyday SC2 games.
I am not angry but why waste my time explaining what generalizing means, when I can just quote him doing it in the same sentence. Your comment sephuys kind of sums the immaturity of the audience quite nicely. Thanks
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
It is irrelevant to the viewers what MLG/IPL's income are. If I go to a movie theater and purchase a ticket for movie "XYZ", do I give a fuck what the backing for the production company was? Will I say,"Oh! Movie XYZ was made by an independent company! I want to support them and pay double the price, even though it's complete shit!" Absolutely not. Welcome to capitalism bud. And you saying there's no such thing as a supply and demand curve in any market is literally laughable. Essentially anytime there is a demand, there will be a supply. Welcome to EC-101.
So pumped for this event. Bought my player pass/plane ticket. Will book a room as soon as the info is released.
I'll buy the HD content for sure, I'll gladly pay 5$ anytime to see MKP play
Though just one thing that I would like to know, Who are the casters going to be? PLEASE tell me you guys getting Apollo for this, just love his casting! All looks great, just need good casters
On February 28 2012 08:57 LoB wrote: I am not angry but why waste my time explaining what generalizing means, when I can just quote him doing it in the same sentence. Your comment sephuys kind of sums the immaturity of the audience quite nicely. Thanks
Ya 28 year old married man with a child, I'm so immature, and you are obviously the one "generalizing." All we did was point out that MLG could learn something from IPL. Yes, IPL has a big company holding it up, however that has nothing to do with MLG and Sundance butchering the way they charged and handled the Winter Arena.
On February 28 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote: MLG should be taking notes, this is definitely the right way to go about it. I'm sure this tournament will be a huge success!
I believe it was the other way around: MLG tried something and IPL took notes and adapted. There is nothing better than learning from somebody's else's mistakes.
- age does not equate to maturity levels and I didn't generalize I made a statement that your post was immature. - Orracle try reading the words before you go off on a tangent/insulting me, none of my posts have mentioned what you typed out. Also opinion does not equal fact sorry to dissapoint.
keep it coming though I am sure if you use capslock it might make yourr arguements even better!
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
You seem to be the one to compare MLG to IPL on a economic level. The OP never mentioned that they are profitable yet, in fact it's sure they aren't there yet. And as I mentioned in my previous post, IGN esports division can afford to be slower in its advance to paid content because it has a humongous financial backing behind. I don't know any number but from the interview of the director at IPL 3, the bosses gave them a large amount of money as well as numerous business connections without the need to make IPL profitable from the start. Because IGN is also a content provider, it can afford to keep people on payroll when they are not working for IPL because they can be working for IGN too (I have no confirmation on this) so that might be a reason too.
All in all, IPL might be the saving grace for MLG. If IPL can pull good numbers with paid subscription, MLG will have to adjust both in term of quality of product and price range. MLG set the bar very high to test the market and are likely to drop the prices a bit for the next time.
I don't see how my post was immature, but you obviously think anyone that disagrees with you is immature or uninformed or whatever so ill stop and let everyone see your posts and decide. This event looks exciting though
i can't even watch 720p twitch cause they lag badly in eastern europe...whereas i can watch own3d o n 1080p...still ill buy the pass cuz 5$ is nothing and i wanna support e-sports :D
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
You seem to be the one to compare MLG to IPL on a economic level. The OP never mentioned that they are profitable yet, in fact it's sure they aren't there yet. And as I mentioned in my previous post, IGN esports division can afford to be slower in its advance to paid content because it has a humongous financial backing behind. I don't know any number but from the interview of the director at IPL 3, the bosses gave them a large amount of money as well as numerous business connections without the need to make IPL profitable from the start. Because IGN is also a content provider, it can afford to keep people on payroll when they are not working for IPL because they can be working for IGN too (I have no confirmation on this) so that might be a reason too.
All in all, IPL might be the saving grace for MLG. If IPL can pull good numbers with paid subscription, MLG will have to adjust both in term of quality of product and price range. MLG set the bar very high to test the market and are likely to drop the prices a bit for the next time.
i beleive on Reddit it was said there goal is to be able to be able to break even in 12 months which shows how tough they consider it
gotta give props to sundance seems like hes alot more ambitious then IPL hard to say if whos way will turn out the best though
On February 28 2012 09:08 LoB wrote: - age does not equate to maturity levels and I didn't generalize I made a statement that your post was immature. - Orracle try reading the words before you go off on a tangent/insulting me, none of my posts have mentioned what you typed out. Also opinion does not equal fact sorry to dissapoint.
keep it coming though I am sure if you use capslock it might make yourr arguements even better!
Explain?
You stated there is no supply/demand for starcraft 2 tournaments. I stated essentially anything that has any demand will have some sort of supply.
You stated consumers need to consider the backing behind the two companies. I stated it is completely irrelevant to a consumer. Do I feel bad for MLG so I'm willing to pay 4x the price of a ticket? Absolutely not. The same as I would not go to a movie theater and pay double for a ticket because I felt sorry that an independent film company didn't have near the budget of the large companies.
The IPL3 streams were @720p 60fps, which i would consider far superior to 1080p 30, it is not really viable to run a 1920x1080 stream at 60fps, so does this mean your "upgrade" will mean everybody running at lower resolutions will get half the FPS on your streams that they did at the previous event (IMO the best feature of IPL3), and with an added time delay due to transcoding of 10 seconds to a minute, making it impossible to discuss in real time on forums or with friends watching using IM or Skype etc if one person bought the pass and others did not?
I've wondered for a while how MLG can be as incompetent not to see how many potential profit they're loosing out on due to their ridiculous high prices. Less expensive-->more users --> more turnover --> more profit (especially with as little marginal cost you have with streaming already produced content). Makes me a really happy panda to see that IGN is smart enough to see that; will be gladly spending 5€ a month for all their content in 1080p <3 !
On February 28 2012 09:08 LoB wrote: - age does not equate to maturity levels and I didn't generalize I made a statement that your post was immature. - Orracle try reading the words before you go off on a tangent/insulting me, none of my posts have mentioned what you typed out. Also opinion does not equal fact sorry to dissapoint.
keep it coming though I am sure if you use capslock it might make yourr arguements even better!
well thanks for your position about generalizing stuff nad you're right about your points kinda, still think about it the other way around. What are big companies doing when they're doing something new? They are infact trying to generalize the people they try to reach with the product (or esports winter arena), so the thought process always is? How are we going to make the most possible money out of that thing we're doing. And as stated above with most of the consumers of esports related stuff beeing students / pupils / casuals who won't even know about streaming and stuff, what you gonna do? Exactly make them pay $20 for 3 Days. I can see your points, but i guarantee you this, major companies are watching their clienteles before doing events and most important before setting prices.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
We as esports fans should care. In the interest of growing this sport, we shouldn't be putting MLG in a negative light next to IPL simply because IPL is willing to give us an amazing deal. IGN can afford to put a lot of money into IPL and not expect immediate profits, because there will be more and more money coming to the industry in the future.
MLG made the mistake of making a price point that's two high and I think IPL's is definitely too low.
And I'm being serious. It's not a racist thing, it's simply me being an old school brood war guy and Korean vs Foreigner is always my most anticipated match.
I'm anticipating most the qualifiers will be Korean, correct? Just not enough Foreigners.
On February 28 2012 09:08 LoB wrote: - age does not equate to maturity levels and I didn't generalize I made a statement that your post was immature. - Orracle try reading the words before you go off on a tangent/insulting me, none of my posts have mentioned what you typed out. Also opinion does not equal fact sorry to dissapoint.
keep it coming though I am sure if you use capslock it might make yourr arguements even better!
Explain?
You stated there is no supply/demand for starcraft 2 tournaments. I stated essentially anything that has any demand will have some sort of supply.
You stated consumers need to consider the backing behind the two companies. I stated it is completely irrelevant to a consumer. Do I feel bad for MLG so I'm willing to pay 4x the price of a ticket? Absolutely not. The same as I would not go to a movie theater and pay double for a ticket because I felt sorry that an independent film company didn't have near the budget of the large companies.
He has no point. He's just a butt hurt MLG fan boy who came into thread where "everyone" else was expressing pleasure in IGN giving customers what they want and threw some shit around like a child stepping on your sand castle.
On February 28 2012 09:27 BreaK wrote: Too many Koreans.
And I'm being serious. It's not a racist thing, it's simply me being an old school brood war guy and Korean vs Foreigner is always my most anticipated match.
I'm anticipating most the qualifiers will be Korean, correct? Just not enough Foreigners.
So you would rather have worse players? The whole point of qualifiers is that the best players get into the tournament, not some invitees that don't deserve to be there.
On February 28 2012 08:19 tdt wrote: Well I went ahead and got 2 VIP passes for this and I'm a Ferengi. One for my bro one for me. Hope I meet MC!
Love everything about IPL professionalism, casters, weekly events, business model.
I wanted to get the VIP passes, but I couldn't justify it with my wife after we got the VIP seats for NASL, and it was garbage.
Comparing IGN and NASL is probably not a good idea.
This I know, however I can't explain the epic difference to my wife.
Explain to her that it's a trip to Vegas Promise to take her to a show on one of the evenings (Saturday?), there are plenty of good shows that weekend! For example if you've never seen "O", it's definitely a great one.
Once more of the details are announced, I'm pretty sure you can convince your wife to get those VIP tickets.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
You seem to be the one to compare MLG to IPL on a economic level. The OP never mentioned that they are profitable yet, in fact it's sure they aren't there yet. And as I mentioned in my previous post, IGN esports division can afford to be slower in its advance to paid content because it has a humongous financial backing behind. I don't know any number but from the interview of the director at IPL 3, the bosses gave them a large amount of money as well as numerous business connections without the need to make IPL profitable from the start. Because IGN is also a content provider, it can afford to keep people on payroll when they are not working for IPL because they can be working for IGN too (I have no confirmation on this) so that might be a reason too.
All in all, IPL might be the saving grace for MLG. If IPL can pull good numbers with paid subscription, MLG will have to adjust both in term of quality of product and price range. MLG set the bar very high to test the market and are likely to drop the prices a bit for the next time.
i beleive on Reddit it was said there goal is to be able to be able to break even in 12 months which shows how tough they consider it
gotta give props to sundance seems like hes alot more ambitious then IPL hard to say if whos way will turn out the best though
Sundance has most likely his back against the wall. He has a long term plan but launching a new system a month after a complete 12 month program has been put up shows indicate that something may have happen. I'm not saying he isn't ambitious but you can't use his PPV move as a argument for that.
As for IPL, I wasn't aware of that timetable. However it doesn't change a lot. IPL 4 is coming, there will be at least IPL5 before the 12 month after IPL3 are gone. IPL plan is different from MLG in that they are trying to cement a regular viewership as well as people who will be able to pay 40$ (+hotel and travel fees) to see an offline event.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
We as esports fans should care. In the interest of growing this sport, we shouldn't be putting MLG in a negative light next to IPL simply because IPL is willing to give us an amazing deal. IGN can afford to put a lot of money into IPL and not expect immediate profits, because there will be more and more money coming to the industry in the future.
MLG made the mistake of making a price point that's two high and I think IPL's is definitely too low.
We arnt doing anything. Companies put themselves in light. Companies make their demand. Good Companies will grow esports and make a ton of cash doing it. It's a win win like UFC was for MMA as a sport. Bad will fail as they should, as 90% do, ones who makes lots of mistakes do, and capitalism will be proven superior once again.
I get the free offers from IGN prime, this means i am a member of ign prime right? which should mean that i get this free if i understand it correctly help someone!
looks good! 5$ is a bargain, to be honest. I would have paid the "standard" 5-10$ for the event alone. I still think the ESL model of freemium with subscriptions and single-event passes is the most flexible offer for the consumer.
On February 28 2012 09:41 ninjamyst wrote: IPL is just so awesome, especially when compared to the crap that's MLG. You got my $5.00. One question, does this apply to daily shows too?
I think so
"This package will cover ALL of our events, whether they are online, or live. Regardless of whether they are in North America, or anywhere in the world. There will be no additional fees, period."
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
We as esports fans should care. In the interest of growing this sport, we shouldn't be putting MLG in a negative light next to IPL simply because IPL is willing to give us an amazing deal. IGN can afford to put a lot of money into IPL and not expect immediate profits, because there will be more and more money coming to the industry in the future.
MLG made the mistake of making a price point that's two high and I think IPL's is definitely too low.
I worded that a little bad, I do care, I just dont care for how MLG handled their last event, I don't dislike MLG and love esports. I was really just trying to say that we shouldn't need to know the background of company's and such to decide if we want to purchase their product. If the price is good and the quality is good, we will buy it.
And IPL's quality has been amazing since the start.
I'll be paying, even though I won't be needing the 720p and 1080p streams. To support IPL is enough for me, and the fact that it isn't gouging us at all.
Right i'll explain to orracle and tdt this last time.
PPV model has been done once, their is no supply and demand data on what the ideal price point is for maximum coverage to the most consumers. We know what the freemium data is and we know based on e-sports as a whole the gerneralized demographic. So there is no supply & demand for PPV yet v(my point). MLG did a straight up PPV model, IPL is doing a subscription-based model. There is no comparison between companies or strategy and as Shadz said to bad mouth one over the other is immature and so is making up false figures to argue with, which is why I said what I said.
Tdt when you learn what generalizing means, I might acknowledge one of your posts but you continue to throw insults in the way of discussion so I still consider you an idiot and from what you have written I can't see past that assumption sorry.
Maeph interesting point and I take on board what you say.
Sephyus yeah I retract what I said before it was just worded badly.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
We as esports fans should care. In the interest of growing this sport, we shouldn't be putting MLG in a negative light next to IPL simply because IPL is willing to give us an amazing deal. IGN can afford to put a lot of money into IPL and not expect immediate profits, because there will be more and more money coming to the industry in the future.
MLG made the mistake of making a price point that's two high and I think IPL's is definitely too low.
I worded that a little bad, I do care, I just dont care for how MLG handled their last event, I don't dislike MLG and love esports. I was really just trying to say that we shouldn't need to know the background of company's and such to decide if we want to purchase their product. If the price is good and the quality is good, we will buy it.
And IPL's quality has been amazing since the start.
I agree completely, MLG did handle it pretty sloppily.
I just hope people don't expect these sort of prices in all of the big tournaments this year.
Sounds like a great deal, only wish there was an annual pass deal for $50 or something. I'll be subscribing for sure. Hope TwitchTV can come up with a reliable security method.
On February 28 2012 09:48 LoB wrote: Right i'll explain to orracle and tdt this last time.
PPV model has been done once, their is no supply and demand data on what the ideal price point is for maximum coverage to the most consumers. We know what the freemium data is and we know based on e-sports as a whole the gerneralized demographic. So there is no supply & demand for PPV yet v(my point). MLG did a straight up PPV model, IPL is doing a subscription-based model. There is no comparison between companies or strategy and as Shadz said to bad mouth one over the other is immature and so is making up false figures to argue with, which is why I said what I said.
Tdt when you learn what generalizing means, I might acknowledge one of your posts but you continue to throw insults in the way of discussion so I still consider you an idiot and from what you have written I can't see past that assumption sorry.
Maeph interesting point and I take on board what you say.
Sephyus yeah I retarct what I said before it was just worded badly.
Well I didn't exactly say that. I just don't like that people are looking down at MLG's cost which, even though many people consider over priced, are still closer to a reasonable price than $5 for a months worth of content. As I said before, IPL can afford to take it as slow as they want because of their financial backing, so I just don't want people to think that $5 is 'fair', because it is in fact a great deal for consumers but not one we should expect often in the future.
On February 28 2012 09:48 LoB wrote: Right i'll explain to orracle and tdt this last time.
PPV model has been done once, their is no supply and demand data on what the ideal price point is for maximum coverage to the most consumers. We know what the freemium data is and we know based on e-sports as a whole the gerneralized demographic. So there is no supply & demand for PPV yet v(my point). MLG did a straight up PPV model, IPL is doing a subscription-based model. There is no comparison between companies or strategy and as Shadz said to bad mouth one over the other is immature and so is making up false figures to argue with, which is why I said what I said.
Tdt when you learn what generalizing means, I might acknowledge one of your posts but you continue to throw insults in the way of discussion so I still consider you an idiot and from what you have written I can't see past that assumption sorry.
Maeph interesting point and I take on board what you say.
Sephyus yeah I retarct what I said before it was just worded badly.
Well I didn't exactly say that. I just don't like that people are looking down at MLG's cost which, even though many people consider over priced, is still closer to a reasonable price than $5 for a months worth of content. As I said before, IPL can afford to take it as slow as they want because of their financial backing, so I just don't want people to think that $5 is 'fair', because it is in fact a great deal for consumers but not one we should expect in the future.
I know they have undercut the current competition to get a influx of subscribers then in the future they can raise the price to fit more in line with a more sustainable model. I don't expect future tournaments to even come close to this price due to the financial backing IPL has through the brand IGN.
On February 28 2012 09:48 LoB wrote: PPV model has been done once, their is no supply and demand data on what the ideal price point is for maximum coverage to the most consumers.
Well there are the words i searched for an advanced explanation of the point i made up before, but my english sucked to hard
If you have no available data on the price in the case of mlg i tell you this: im sure they knew about the costumer satisfaction, and if they did their homeworks they also have reliable possibilities to compare prices and the succes of pricing, e.g. prices of GSLs monthly premium package including both GSL & GSTL costs a monthly $19.99 and as we know with those leagues we're speaking about the leagues with the best players and the highest available play available atm with slightly more games if we add up Code A Code S and GSTL games together. Next step of evaluating offers in that area could be easy as well, just check ESLs HSC numbers which was $10(or even less? don't know exactly) and as for me it was included in an ESL premium package which made me whatch ESL streams in HD for $19 a month, but not only sc2 but also all other games featured in Esl as well as tournament participation possibilitie for me.
And versus those offers those $20 for 3 days MLG wanted become even more ridiculous in my eyes at least.
I have a question. What do the invites (currently Nestea, MC, MMA) have to accomplish to be invited? Or are these just "what the people want"? I'd rather see all players go through qualifiers and have the truly best compete against eachother than have people in a tournament that don't truly deserve to be in it.
On February 28 2012 10:13 epicdemic wrote: I have a question. What do the invites (currently Nestea, MC, MMA) have to accomplish to be invited? Or are these just "what the people want"? I'd rather see all players go through qualifiers and have the truly best compete against eachother than have people in a tournament that don't truly deserve to be in it.
On February 28 2012 10:13 epicdemic wrote: I have a question. What do the invites (currently Nestea, MC, MMA) have to accomplish to be invited? Or are these just "what the people want"? I'd rather see all players go through qualifiers and have the truly best compete against eachother than have people in a tournament that don't truly deserve to be in it.
you mean like some of the players that went through the MLG NA qualifiers? If being past GSL, HSC, MLG champions don't qualify you, I don't know what will...
On February 28 2012 09:48 LoB wrote: Right i'll explain to orracle and tdt this last time.
PPV model has been done once, their is no supply and demand data on what the ideal price point is for maximum coverage to the most consumers. We know what the freemium data is and we know based on e-sports as a whole the gerneralized demographic. So there is no supply & demand for PPV yet v(my point). MLG did a straight up PPV model, IPL is doing a subscription-based model. There is no comparison between companies or strategy and as Shadz said to bad mouth one over the other is immature and so is making up false figures to argue with, which is why I said what I said.
There is supply for PPV.
The MLG Arena was PPV. I would consider GSL to be PPV aswell because the free stream is very low quailty, good enough for some people but not watching consistently, and the fact that it is on korean time.
MLG Pro Circuit also operates on a subcription basis, the same as the IPL will do. How can you popssibly say there is no comparison between the two?
IPL will get my money for 12 months, just like GSL do now..MLG only if they get real with inflated price model and even then I may pause as I canot pay for everything and they annoyed me with the cynical pricing.
On February 28 2012 10:13 epicdemic wrote: I have a question. What do the invites (currently Nestea, MC, MMA) have to accomplish to be invited? Or are these just "what the people want"? I'd rather see all players go through qualifiers and have the truly best compete against eachother than have people in a tournament that don't truly deserve to be in it.
You can't possibly be serious by asking that question, or you don't follow the scene closely enough.
MMA is arguably the best terran in the world and easily top 5 player in the world atm.
MC only won like 12213 tournamanets last year and Nestea has won multiple gsls.
these three guys were top 5 earners I believe last year in tournament winnings.
On February 28 2012 09:48 Whatson wrote: $5 per month for 1080 HD and all IPL content? Where do I pay? IPL showing MLG how to do it.
IPL showing MLG how to not make a profit.
Seriously though why are people comparing a PPV event, one that costs much more money than IPL does, to IPL?
Do people think these events are run for no money or something?
Se events were music CDs you know they'd be pirated beyond all reason.
People would rather have something free than pay for it. It's the bad part of the welfare system culture that the west has instilled on its youth. Things just kind of happen for you if you're in the white male world of western esports.
As day 9 said, you're not buying it to own it, you're paying for it to support it.
On February 28 2012 10:23 Ireniicus wrote: IPL will get my money for 12 months, just like GSL do now..MLG only if they get real with inflated price model and even then I may pause as I canot pay for everything and they annoyed me with the cynical pricing.
here here. And they better tighten their ship up a little more. Players looked like they were in a funeral home and casting sucked last go around. I'd gladly pay for good product like I do for GSL and maybe IPL (although 480 is just fine by me)
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
On February 28 2012 09:48 Whatson wrote: $5 per month for 1080 HD and all IPL content? Where do I pay? IPL showing MLG how to do it.
IPL showing MLG how to not make a profit.
Seriously though why are people comparing a PPV event, one that costs much more money than IPL does, to IPL?
Do people think these events are run for no money or something?
Se events were music CDs you know they'd be pirated beyond all reason.
People would rather have something free than pay for it. It's the bad part of the welfare system culture that the west has instilled on its youth. Things just kind of happen for you if you're in the white male world of western esports.
As day 9 said, you're not buying it to own it, you're paying for it to support it.
Please. Places that have no welfare I can buy ripped anything a many a street corner vendor hardly any kids buy software or music in China. My dad is from middle east and all my cousins living there pay for nothing and think nothing of it. copyright violations arent even a cultural taboo and they jack your shit up and maybe mame you if you steal a candybar. If anything the west is foisting these idea like DRM on the rest of the unwilling world.
Second day 9 is wrong. Speaking of entitlement. Business isn't a charity. You buy something because it's good and that in and of itself helps grow the sport. Leave noble causes like charity for people who actually need it, not manhatten high rises.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
Your opinion is that one product is better than the other, when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product. Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model. You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different. You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more.
On February 28 2012 10:54 kingtut wrote: people have seemed to forgot idra beat bomber at mlg orlando.. and not just idra fell off since then but so did bomber
Hopefully Bomber doesn't do stupid no-gas mass-marine stuff this time.
LoB your message has changed a tad from post to post, lets all agree to disagree and hype IPL 4. We all love esports we probably get each others opinions by now
On February 28 2012 10:57 The_Stampede wrote: lol....keep bashing MLG dumb asses. Too many derp people
User was warned for this post
Hey bro we are all on the same team. What you may construe as bashing is contructive criticism so they make money and grow sport we love doing it. If 50% (it was more) are unhappy about what MLG is doing or what their product deliverers it's bad for sport.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
Your opinion is that one product is better than the other, when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product. Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model. You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different. You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more.
How is that hard to understand
You still don't understand. The differences in economic models mean nothing because they are both offering the same thing, to the same audience, regardless of monthly or PPV. There is no different outlay. There are no exclusive rights to players, or casters. They're direct competitors, and one is offering a much better value per dollar. That's all that matters.
Whether IPL4 has taken place or not is also irrelevant - given what they did for IPL3, there's no reason to suspect that they won't deliver what they offered, a month from now.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
Your opinion is that one product is better than the other, when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product. Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model. You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different. You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more.
How is that hard to understand
You still don't understand. The differences in economic models mean nothing because they are both offering the same thing, to the same audience, regardless of monthly or PPV. There is no different outlay. There are no exclusive rights to players, or casters. They're direct competitors, and one is offering a much better value per dollar. That's all that matters.
Whether IPL4 has taken place or not is also irrelevant - given what they did for IPL3, there's no reason to suspect that they won't deliver what they offered, a month from now.
On February 28 2012 10:57 LoB wrote: Your opinion is that one product is better than the other,
No he is saying that two equal products do not get valued because of the financial situation of their developers but what people think is a good price to pay
On February 28 2012 10:57 LoB wrote: when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product.
They are 100% comparable. Its the same product.
On February 28 2012 10:57 LoB wrote: Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model.
So what if they were the first. They put a price that many didnt feel like it was worth paying for the product they were offering. Is the demand high enough to warrant such a huge increase in cost for the same service as you get on many other events (supply)?
On February 28 2012 10:57 LoB wrote: You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different.
Ofcourse you can. If both sell the same bread for different price the people will buy the lowest one. It doesnt matter if its at the supermarket at your local bakery.
On February 28 2012 10:57 LoB wrote: You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more. How is that hard to understand
He has never in his posts said that one is better then the others. He have only explained to you how supply and demand and economics works in this world.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
Your opinion is that one product is better than the other, when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product. Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model. You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different. You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more.
How is that hard to understand
You still don't understand. The differences in economic models mean nothing because they are both offering the same thing, to the same audience, regardless of monthly or PPV. There is no different outlay. There are no exclusive rights to players, or casters. They're direct competitors, and one is offering a much better value per dollar. That's all that matters.
Whether IPL4 has taken place or not is also irrelevant - given what they did for IPL3, there's no reason to suspect that they won't deliver what they offered, a month from now.
On February 28 2012 07:31 LoB wrote: Nice marketing ploy, the might of a parent organization propping up the fallacy that IPL is profitable. Fact is not all organizations have the advertising connections, sponsors or marketting division IGN has.
The comparisons to MLG make me giggle. Love to live in the delusional world some of you live in.
whats your point? if they can offer a superior product at a better value, who cares if they aren't an independent company? as part of IGN they can spread their costs and achieve economies of scale. this is how competition works - deeper pocketed organizations make the entire industry stay on their toes and benefits the consumers.
i also bet at $5 IPL will bring in more revenue than MLG's $20 ppv weekend because the overall number of buyers will be much more than 4x winter arena. simple supply and demand.
welcome to the real world.
You clearly didn't understand my point. I was clearly stating that comparisons between MLG and IPL/IGN are laughable because their income and expenditure of the two are completely different and one is propped up by a larger parent company. There is an economical reason why one is more expensive than the other, you failed to grasp that.
Throwing in made up stats to justify your arguement is a tell-tale sign of clutching at straws. Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
IPL and MLG are compared because they are both competing in the same industry and offering similar products. yes, there are economical reasons why one is more expensive than the other - i even noted so in my post, which you clearly couldn't comprehend. the problem is that a consumer does not, and should not, care about their financial backing, only who provides the better value. as per your own example - if a supermarket is making bread cheaper and better than the local bakery - guess what? the bakery is going out of business.
and of course my numbers are speculative; none of these companies are public and as such they dont disclose anything. to say that i fail to grasp the principles of economics is a sign of both your arrogance and ignorance, since i do financial analysis and value companies for a living.
Also "supply and demand" you should look up what that means because esports is not at that point yet with a ppv model.
i'm quite unsure of what you're trying to piece together with words here. supply and demand applies ppv as it does to everything else.
Your opinion is that one product is better than the other, when I am saying they are not comparable due to diifferent economic models not because I prefer one over the other or one offers a better product. Supply and demand for subscription models are out there but MLG was the first to do a PPV model. You cannot compare the supermarket price to the local bakery price (like in this thread) because there outlay is completely different. You can compare the product all you want. The point was people were typing "hey mlg take notes" and my point was that you cant compare the two especially since the IPL 4 hasn't even happened. So saying one costs less than the other doesn't make it better than the product that cost more.
How is that hard to understand
You still don't understand. The differences in economic models mean nothing because they are both offering the same thing, to the same audience, regardless of monthly or PPV. There is no different outlay. There are no exclusive rights to players, or casters. They're direct competitors, and one is offering a much better value per dollar. That's all that matters.
Whether IPL4 has taken place or not is also irrelevant - given what they did for IPL3, there's no reason to suspect that they won't deliver what they offered, a month from now.
I don't care anymore, I am going to sleep.
lol...rage quit
Ending a pointless and unwinnable argument is a ragequit? I'm pretty sure that called being smart.
This really looks like a perfect business model and i really hope it pays off. I would buy the premium package, but i my internet can't really do more then 360 without running into serious lag. At any rate, best of luck IPL! can't wait to see how esports develop from here.
if GSTL finals @ IPL4 comes true, then the open bracket would be so stacked b/c the koreans that play in the GSTL finals would surely participate in the IPL open bracket too
though the current GSL schedule shows the GSTL finals are weeks after IPL4, however gom can easily change the schedule. If I counted correctly there are only 8 team matches to be played (not including final match). And if they do 2 matches per week, like usual (not including this week since its GSL finals), it would actually line up fine with IPL4.
I really hope they're profiting enough from this to continue doing these. $5 is dirt cheap and most people will just settle for the low quality even still. I can't even use an HD stream in my college dorm so it's not even something I'd consider.
sigh twitch.tv again. Is it wise to pay for a higher level that is inconsistent anyways? Then again, the paywall might help bring down the stutters. Hope it keeps out people properly. I will probably decide on the final day.
Will you providing $5 subscribers with any ADDITIONAL CONTENT/ACCESS and/or other streams other than the 720p and 1080p stream quality? What will be the VOD format for this event? VODs available instantly after each match?
I'm not so sure about your HD streaming. Things stutter horribly on your stream even at the lowest quality. And you guys stream from San Francisco and I'm down here by Los Angeles. Yet, a guy like TotalBiscuit can stream from the UK and can stream HD to me from his house. I hope you have a preview stream up that's playing a rerun of something before I take the dive.
Seems pretty clear that IGN is strategically announcing this on the heels of the Winter Arena in order to contrast themselves with MLG. The timing of this announcement is NOT a coincedence. It's funny because NASL, IPL and MLG have tried to portray themselves in the past as friends who don't want to compete with each other. Clearly that is not the case however and IGN is perfectly willing to undercut MLG. This is cutthroat capitalism at its best lol.
I will certainly be paying for this as I did for MLG. I just get the feeling that the vast majority of people will opt for a free 480p stream when you offer it to them. In the same way that MLG was basically asking for charity with its $20 price point, IGN is basically saying "we know you're perfectly fine with 480p but throw us 5 bucks plz."
On February 28 2012 13:10 LosZergs wrote: Congrats MLG. They took the first step and now the IPL follows suit. Of course the prices vary but in essence it's the same exact thing.
Not quite. If you paid nothing to MLG, theoretically you did not get to watch (of course, there were bugs and restreams, etc), whereas with IPL, if you paid nothing, you can still watch, just not in high quality.
sounds like a fun event, hopefully they can raise the bar some more like they did with IPL3. They'll have an event under their belt, so it'll be interesting to see how successful and well run it is. They went back to the old pricing model I see, probably because they don't have to worry about making a profit as much as MLG does, so they can still try to give viewer the best possible deal.
Eh, I don't really care about HQ. I'll be watching in standard quality, even though the $5 sounds like a great deal. At least it's better than MLG's pricing.
On February 28 2012 13:10 LosZergs wrote: Congrats MLG. They took the first step and now the IPL follows suit. Of course the prices vary but in essence it's the same exact thing.
It's not even remotely the exact same thing. In fact, in essence it's the exact opposite thing.
On February 28 2012 13:10 LosZergs wrote: Congrats MLG. They took the first step and now the IPL follows suit. Of course the prices vary but in essence it's the same exact thing.
Not quite. If you paid nothing to MLG, theoretically you did not get to watch (of course, there were bugs and restreams, etc), whereas with IPL, if you paid nothing, you can still watch, just not in high quality.
That, and respectfully, IPL kicks the shit out of MLG in terms of features and content.
Usually don't bother to shell out money for HD streams, but I'll be dropping $5 on this one to support IGN. Sounds like a really great tournament with a ton of awesome content ahead, and the previous IPLs never disappointed me (outside of some ugly layouts ).
thanks ipl, letting people view for free, unlike the ridiculous price at mlg. glad that they will earn some more money with the $5 subscription. i don't really care about it, since i watch on 480 or even 360p anyways, i prefer absolutely no lag to pretty pictures (i play on low quality settings too).
On February 28 2012 13:10 LosZergs wrote: Congrats MLG. They took the first step and now the IPL follows suit. Of course the prices vary but in essence it's the same exact thing.
It's not even remotely the exact same thing. In fact, in essence it's the exact opposite thing.
Exactly. Some people are just retarded. IPL will get my $5, groups look great so far.
compression / bitrate is more important than resolution most of the time... so 480p can still look decent on standard screen sizes (15-21 inches), it would just appear more pixelated instead of unreadable.
Until last year, I couldn't do anything above 480p for the most part. Now I have the bandwith to handle 720-1080p.
Though If im watching on my bed on my 21" monitor, the resolution difference doesn't mean a whole lot other than readability on the text.
I hope that that $5/monthly does not equal $60/year. And i would really enjoy a 60fps stream. SC2 needs it. But IPL content set my expectations already high enough. IPL3 was just amazing. Hope they learned a bit and they can set the bar even higher.
+ I don't care about the financial background compared to MLG (I understand that IPL and MLG may compete for US markets, but that is it for me). Assembly ROG was very good, same for the latest IEM and DH.
I shed a single tear for Idra, then got excited at the competition this tournament will have for Stephano. I just wish it was during the week I'll be in Vegas
Gonna be having a lan for this at my house or a friends house, since there's no barcrafts in my area .
It's still an amazing line up, IdrA's already after getting a really hard group, but I'm looking forward to seeing MKP play. Hopefully he can be consistent.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
Don't assume that sir. MLG had 50 million in VC. Besides.. if you get 4x the number of people willing to pay $5, compared to MLG..then you have made up the difference and you have increased your brand name.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
Don't assume that sir. MLG had 50 million in VC. Besides.. if you get 4x the number of people willing to pay $5, compared to MLG..then you have made up the difference and you have increased your brand name.
Just food for thought.
That's over a couple of years. IGN looks like it is easily ready to spend more than that amount in the same amount of time. Just look at the casino venue. That's a lot more expensive than a convention center, and the list goes on.
On February 28 2012 14:35 Mysticesper wrote: compression / bitrate is more important than resolution most of the time... so 480p can still look decent on standard screen sizes (15-21 inches), it would just appear more pixelated instead of unreadable.
Until last year, I couldn't do anything above 480p for the most part. Now I have the bandwith to handle 720-1080p.
Though If im watching on my bed on my 21" monitor, the resolution difference doesn't mean a whole lot other than readability on the text.
Indeed, IPLs 480s are just fine. I wonder if they are making a mistake offering such a decent free stream and if the $5 is just sounding real good ti everyone right now just after we were raped/attempted rape by GSLs price point. Of course 4x less than winter arena seems great by comparison but will people really buy with such a decnt free? Have to wait and see. GL IPL but I'll be honest I prolly won't buy even though I am attending this live one. Why would I when 480 is just fine for me?
Make free stream uncomfortable and painful to watch like GSL does and I'll buy.
On February 28 2012 14:35 Mysticesper wrote: compression / bitrate is more important than resolution most of the time... so 480p can still look decent on standard screen sizes (15-21 inches), it would just appear more pixelated instead of unreadable.
Until last year, I couldn't do anything above 480p for the most part. Now I have the bandwith to handle 720-1080p.
Though If im watching on my bed on my 21" monitor, the resolution difference doesn't mean a whole lot other than readability on the text.
Indeed, IPLs 480s are just fine. I wonder if they are making a mistake offering such a decent free stream and if the $5 is just sounding real good ti everyone right now just after we were raped/attempted rape by GSLs price point. Of course 4x less than winter arena seems great by comparison but will people really buy with such a decnt free? Have to wait and see. GL IPL but I'll be honest I prolly won't buy even though I am attending this live one. Why would I when 480 is just fine for me?
Make it uncomfortable like GSL does and I'll buy.
Forgot about GSL streams, but yes, they are compressed to hell, it isnt just because it is "480p" or whatever resolution they run at.
I still am contemplating on whether or not to go... Vegas is easy to get to.. 12 hours of driving or allegiant airlines from my airport (price is comparable) + it's a holiday weekend.
Passes are cheap, so the only thing really left is hotel prices.
On February 28 2012 14:35 Mysticesper wrote: compression / bitrate is more important than resolution most of the time... so 480p can still look decent on standard screen sizes (15-21 inches), it would just appear more pixelated instead of unreadable.
Until last year, I couldn't do anything above 480p for the most part. Now I have the bandwith to handle 720-1080p.
Though If im watching on my bed on my 21" monitor, the resolution difference doesn't mean a whole lot other than readability on the text.
Indeed, IPLs 480s are just fine. I wonder if they are making a mistake offering such a decent free stream and if the $5 is just sounding real good ti everyone right now just after we were raped/attempted rape by GSLs price point. Of course 4x less than winter arena seems great by comparison but will people really buy with such a decnt free? Have to wait and see. GL IPL but I'll be honest I prolly won't buy even though I am attending this live one. Why would I when 480 is just fine for me?
Make it uncomfortable like GSL does and I'll buy.
Forgot about GSL streams, but yes, they are compressed to hell, it isnt just because it is "480p" or whatever resolution they run at.
I still am contemplating on whether or not to go... Vegas is easy to get to.. 12 hours of driving or allegiant airlines from my airport (price is comparable) + it's a holiday weekend.
Passes are cheap, so the only thing really left is hotel prices.
Id wait on hotel - perhaps IPL is working a deal (group deal) with casinos. Who knows. Anyway yeah Vegas is perfect. Flights are cheap as shit to and from here. All these Big southwest metro areas are stright line couple four hours, and there is plenty of other entertianment to complement trip. I hope they stay in vegas
5$ is incredible, but I'm disillusioned that it's a Twitch partnership. I can count on my hand the amount of times Twitch has worked decently to Europe on a tournament stream. I'll probably end up paying it anyway because this offer is well worth supporting, but I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't able to watch 720+ with stability anyway ~_~
On February 28 2012 14:35 Mysticesper wrote: compression / bitrate is more important than resolution most of the time... so 480p can still look decent on standard screen sizes (15-21 inches), it would just appear more pixelated instead of unreadable.
Until last year, I couldn't do anything above 480p for the most part. Now I have the bandwith to handle 720-1080p.
Though If im watching on my bed on my 21" monitor, the resolution difference doesn't mean a whole lot other than readability on the text.
Indeed, IPLs 480s are just fine. I wonder if they are making a mistake offering such a decent free stream and if the $5 is just sounding real good ti everyone right now just after we were raped/attempted rape by GSLs price point. Of course 4x less than winter arena seems great by comparison but will people really buy with such a decnt free? Have to wait and see. GL IPL but I'll be honest I prolly won't buy even though I am attending this live one. Why would I when 480 is just fine for me?
Make it uncomfortable like GSL does and I'll buy.
Forgot about GSL streams, but yes, they are compressed to hell, it isnt just because it is "480p" or whatever resolution they run at.
I still am contemplating on whether or not to go... Vegas is easy to get to.. 12 hours of driving or allegiant airlines from my airport (price is comparable) + it's a holiday weekend.
Passes are cheap, so the only thing really left is hotel prices.
Id wait on hotel - perhaps IPL is working a deal (group deal) with casinos. Who knows. Anyway yeah Vegas is perfect. Flights are cheap as shit to and from here. All these Big southwest metro areas are stright line couple four hours, and there is plenty of other entertianment to complement trip. I hope they stay in vegas
It is pretty dirt cheap to go out to it. Flights from Oregon are running $150.00. I'm assuming the hotel is gonna be pretty damn cheap too... I looked up a few hotels in Vegas and some are as low as $40 a night.
Which leads me to my question, do you guys have any idea how long till you will announce the venue/hotel?
On February 28 2012 05:23 gullberg wrote: Well Idra looks pretty fucked!
That's what also wanted to say :D I mean I really wish him good luck and I hope that the practice in Korea pans out. Would be great to see some good results from him again.
On February 28 2012 17:03 Resilient wrote: 5$ is incredible, but I'm disillusioned that it's a Twitch partnership. I can count on my hand the amount of times Twitch has worked decently to Europe on a tournament stream. I'll probably end up paying it anyway because this offer is well worth supporting, but I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't able to watch 720+ with stability anyway ~_~
I'll donate $5, even though I don't have the bandwidth to see it in 1080p!
It's an equivalent to a pint in the UK, so hell yeh! I know I won't be able to watch everything either so $5 seems much more bearable than needing to sit down and try to watch every game to be guilt free, given the time zone difference. If anything I'm supporting the free stream.
Looking forward to this! Thanks IGN!
Hoping for another memorable game such as Kiwikaki vs Stephano.
Kudos and respect to IPL. This is how to do it. I'm likely to subscribe to support your efforts. I firmly believe that if we are to grow SC2 eSports, we need to be as inclusive as possible - and that means allowing people without the means or motivation to shell out cash, to at least partake as fans. Freemium has proven success in other web media ventures - and I see no reason why it can't work well for eSports. Paywalls suck - but paying extra for higher quality streams, with the option of paying nothing to watch in lower res when times are hard, is surely the way forward.
Of course I'll pay for a weekend for 5 freaking bucks.
Its a monthly subscription, they are changing all their broadcasts to be 480p free and HD 5$ a month. Still tho, 5$ is nothing compaired to the amount of content they produce so i would gladly pay 5$ per month
so people still trust twitch suscrption?? couldnt i just watch 1080p with incognito mode? dont get me wrong, payed mlg and will probably pay this, but you really feel stupid when everyone is watching for free T_T
Wow IPL4 is going to be so good with all of the content they are putting out for $5, can't see idra advancing with korean terrans like MMA and bomber in his group.
So am I correct in assuming that as an IGN Prime suber I will get the hd quality free and that migrating over to that won't replace my prime account but just link then together so that as long as I have prime IPL is always free?
On February 28 2012 12:36 Spec wrote: What the fuck? All these great matches to come at high quality only at $5? How are they doing this... Where is the money tree they're farming from...
They will surely get more paying customers with that pricing (compared to MLG Arena), they'll have a live audience paying for the entrance and a high viewer count to show for their owners and sponsors. I am not(!) saying that they will make a bigger profit than Arena (because we just don't know) but it will certainly look and be better in the long run.
..and Arena is more of a side thing, a "bonus", than anything else. We can still watch the regular MLG for free (as far as I know), so it's not really fair to compare. And yet I just did, but still! :p
Great by IPL. Hope they show much more of the open bracket because i think its gonna be very stacked!!! And i also hope 1080p (or at least 720p) vods are still free :D
Considering 25% of the SC2 population paid for MLG (atleast according to TL polls), IPL is probably shooting themself to the knee giving out the premium stuff for $5, even if 60% of the population pays (which I doubt) they are still going to lose a lot of potentional money and then, I can see the uproar when they start charging $10. On the other hand when MLG lowers the cost to $12 ($8 for gold) the whole community will be happy that the huge "protest of PPV" made a difference.
I get the idea that IPL is offering a free and a paid and people are happy about that and a reason to hate on MLG.
But as far as the paid part of this goes... it doesn't seem much better to me than MLG. I don't want to have to pay a subscription fee when I have no idea what I'll be getting over time. We don't know how many big events they will run or how often. You aren't just paying $5 for IPL4, it is $5 per month. So if you watch IPL4, and you don't really care to watch anything until IPL5 in 6 months you actually spent $30 for IPL4.
So far it seems like they are trying to put out a lot of content which is great, and the per hour of content at $5 a month sounds like a good deal if they continue to and you like their little weekly shows. But personally, I don't watch a lot of the weekly stuff(to tape delayed for my taste, never any live) I just want the big live events.
Can you cancel you subscription and re-up it only when the big events show up? I also hate subscription vs. one time fee because if I forget about it all the sudden I realize $5 a month has drained out of my account without even knowing it/remembering.
Again, I'm fine with what they are charging but I just think it is funny that people are like, "SEE MLG YOU SHOULD LEARN IT IS JUST $5!!!!" when in reality this could end up costing $60 for the year and you have no idea what that $60 actually ends up getting you at this time in terms of major events.
IGN , IPL i love you guys ,will buy to support you guys .. I love ipl casters .. IPL team arena is great and im sure that if IPL 4 is a sucess you start to do more IPLs !
Important thing here is this , everyone can watch and everyone can pay if they want , this is how it should be !
You can suck a lot of money from viewers who have a stable life , who work or parents are/were rich , but most viewership is teens that bring more players and spectators , and they mostly cant afford to pay ! If PPV becomes the staple , i guess SC2 was never meant to be popular , maybe SC3
On February 28 2012 23:45 FLuE wrote: I get the idea that IPL is offering a free and a paid and people are happy about that and a reason to hate on MLG.
But as far as the paid part of this goes... it doesn't seem much better to me than MLG. I don't want to have to pay a subscription fee when I have no idea what I'll be getting over time. We don't know how many big events they will run or how often. You aren't just paying $5 for IPL4, it is $5 per month. So if you watch IPL4, and you don't really care to watch anything until IPL5 in 6 months you actually spent $30 for IPL4.
So far it seems like they are trying to put out a lot of content which is great, and the per hour of content at $5 a month sounds like a good deal if they continue to and you like their little weekly shows. But personally, I don't watch a lot of the weekly stuff(to tape delayed for my taste, never any live) I just want the big live events.
Can you cancel you subscription and re-up it only when the big events show up? I also hate subscription vs. one time fee because if I forget about it all the sudden I realize $5 a month has drained out of my account without even knowing it/remembering.
Again, I'm fine with what they are charging but I just think it is funny that people are like, "SEE MLG YOU SHOULD LEARN IT IS JUST $5!!!!" when in reality this could end up costing $60 for the year and you have no idea what that $60 actually ends up getting you at this time in terms of major events.
you just forgot about the fact that you can unsubscribe at any time (pay only a month)
On February 28 2012 23:45 FLuE wrote: I get the idea that IPL is offering a free and a paid and people are happy about that and a reason to hate on MLG.
But as far as the paid part of this goes... it doesn't seem much better to me than MLG. I don't want to have to pay a subscription fee when I have no idea what I'll be getting over time. We don't know how many big events they will run or how often. You aren't just paying $5 for IPL4, it is $5 per month. So if you watch IPL4, and you don't really care to watch anything until IPL5 in 6 months you actually spent $30 for IPL4.
So far it seems like they are trying to put out a lot of content which is great, and the per hour of content at $5 a month sounds like a good deal if they continue to and you like their little weekly shows. But personally, I don't watch a lot of the weekly stuff(to tape delayed for my taste, never any live) I just want the big live events.
Can you cancel you subscription and re-up it only when the big events show up? I also hate subscription vs. one time fee because if I forget about it all the sudden I realize $5 a month has drained out of my account without even knowing it/remembering.
Again, I'm fine with what they are charging but I just think it is funny that people are like, "SEE MLG YOU SHOULD LEARN IT IS JUST $5!!!!" when in reality this could end up costing $60 for the year and you have no idea what that $60 actually ends up getting you at this time in terms of major events.
Lol. ............................. I'm sure most people are smart enough to cancel the subscription if there are no events going on. The fact that you base your argument on the idea that people won't cancel their subscription is also kind of odd. Also, I'm sure they'll allow you to cancel it.
Also, it's not really another reason to hate MLG imo. I mean, they were apparently just testing and playing around with the idea but anyway, you'll probably have to wait until IPL 4 in order to judge the events.
On February 28 2012 23:45 FLuE wrote: I get the idea that IPL is offering a free and a paid and people are happy about that and a reason to hate on MLG.
But as far as the paid part of this goes... it doesn't seem much better to me than MLG. I don't want to have to pay a subscription fee when I have no idea what I'll be getting over time. We don't know how many big events they will run or how often. You aren't just paying $5 for IPL4, it is $5 per month. So if you watch IPL4, and you don't really care to watch anything until IPL5 in 6 months you actually spent $30 for IPL4.
So far it seems like they are trying to put out a lot of content which is great, and the per hour of content at $5 a month sounds like a good deal if they continue to and you like their little weekly shows. But personally, I don't watch a lot of the weekly stuff(to tape delayed for my taste, never any live) I just want the big live events.
Can you cancel you subscription and re-up it only when the big events show up? I also hate subscription vs. one time fee because if I forget about it all the sudden I realize $5 a month has drained out of my account without even knowing it/remembering.
Again, I'm fine with what they are charging but I just think it is funny that people are like, "SEE MLG YOU SHOULD LEARN IT IS JUST $5!!!!" when in reality this could end up costing $60 for the year and you have no idea what that $60 actually ends up getting you at this time in terms of major events.
we only pay 60$ / 30$ / 5$ if we want.. anyone can watch for free , or HQ to support them ... MLG would have got my money for 5$ / 8$ , but will never get a single cent for 20$ or 10$ ... We have so many tourneys for free , Ive watched almost 2 years of GSL for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE , but this year i paid them yearly subscription because i want to support them! (HQ is good too)
I want to support MLG since i loved the 2 last MLGs , but this kind of PPV have what purpose ? spend 100k or more producing it , to give 26k $ in prizes ? This is wrong... Players are not slaves , wheres their share if they dont win ? They are not even getting watched by the fans neither live or at home because its PPV...
Who would see WSOP with small prize pool , and PPV ?
From my point of view , Poker is like e-sports , you cant see without knowledge of the game or something that attracts people ( $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ )
On February 28 2012 18:28 Alex.IGN wrote: Only 25 open bracket player passes left! If you plan on entering the open bracket purchase your ticket soon!
Glad to see this open bracket a lot more successful than ipl 3 as that was like 50% full if I recall. Hopefully some koreans like DRG have snagged some of those passes and will be showing up for the open bracket.
The system you have in place for trying to claim a 50% discount on spectator passes is ridiculously annoying.
First, why do you use a third-party facebook utility? I've never heard of this 'splurgy' company, and while I might be alright dealing with you guys -- might have some level of trust for IGN -- there is no way I should be bothered to agree to a Terms of Service and Privacy Policy from some unknown entity just to access a coupon code.
Second, I don't even have a Twitter account. I have to Like your facebook page, spam my fb with links to it, AND spam my nonexistant Twitter feed? Obviously there are some very popular social media sites out there, like facebook and Twitter, but I really loath the idea of an account with them being a necessity just to access information about a product I'm interested in. I wish you wouldn't contribute to this trend.
Finally, you have to question the wisdom of using a system where you even have to forewarn your users to try different/multiple browsers and/or disable Adblock just to get it working.
Anyway, I guess the entire point of your offer is that you're trading a coupon in exchange for social media advertising. I just wanted to say that I'd rather pay full price than be a jerk who makes all of my friends endure me being a shill for you. I'm hoping that expressing my opinion against your chosen method here will make a difference... you mentioned you'd be reading every post. Thanks.
The system you have in place for trying to claim a 50% discount on spectator passes is ridiculously annoying.
First, why do you use a third-party facebook utility? I've never heard of this 'splurgy' company, and while I might be alright dealing with you guys -- might have some level of trust for IGN -- there is no way I should be bothered to agree to a Terms of Service and Privacy Policy from some unknown entity just to access a coupon code.
Second, I don't even have a Twitter account. I have to Like your facebook page, spam my fb with links to it, AND spam my nonexistant Twitter feed? Obviously there are some very popular social media sites out there, like facebook and Twitter, but I really loath the idea of an account with them being a necessity just to access information about a product I'm interested in. I wish you wouldn't contribute to this trend.
Finally, you have to question the wisdom of using a system where you even have to forewarn your users to try different/multiple browsers and/or disable Adblock just to get it working.
Anyway, I guess the entire point of your offer is that you're trading a coupon in exchange for social media advertising. I just wanted to say that I'd rather pay full price than be a jerk who makes all of my friends endure me being a shill for you. I'm hoping that expressing my opinion against your chosen method here will make a difference... you mentioned you'd be reading every post. Thanks.
We are using a third-party Facebook utility because it makes sense for our promotion. Facebook and Twitter both have millions of users that do not browse TeamLiquid.net or Reddit.com that could potentially be interested in our event. You certainly do not have to agree to a ToS or Privacy Policy to purchase a ticket, which costs $25. You can skip all of the promotion and just buy the ticket on our Eventbrite page here: http://ipl4.eventbrite.com/
We're sorry that you are against this sort of promotional discount, but many people will find it beneficial. We can justify the 50% discount because of the potential of more tickets sold.
"To help us recoup part of the costs, we have partnered up with Twitch.tv, and have come up with a compelling subscription-based deal of $5 per month for the 1080p and 720p stream. All other resolutions will be 100% free."
Am I the only one to react on subscription-based? You may have a minumum amount of months that you sign up for, and therefore it may cost you a lot more than 5 dollars to see this event in HD. There is no way to tell yet
On February 29 2012 04:14 stichtom wrote: "To help us recoup part of the costs, we have partnered up with Twitch.tv, and have come up with a compelling subscription-based deal of $5 per month for the 1080p and 720p stream. All other resolutions will be 100% free."
Am I the only one to react on subscription-based? You may have a minumum amount of months that you sign up for, and therefore it may cost you a lot more than 5 dollars to see this event in HD. There is no way to tell yet
Believe they already said on Reddit and maybe somewhere in this thread that you can subscribe just for the event month and then unsubscribe.
On February 29 2012 04:14 stichtom wrote: "To help us recoup part of the costs, we have partnered up with Twitch.tv, and have come up with a compelling subscription-based deal of $5 per month for the 1080p and 720p stream. All other resolutions will be 100% free."
Am I the only one to react on subscription-based? You may have a minumum amount of months that you sign up for, and therefore it may cost you a lot more than 5 dollars to see this event in HD. There is no way to tell yet
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
Can someone clarity the $5 sub for me. Does this mean HD for major events or every single event? By that I mean, will ipl team league and fight club, etc require the $5 sub to watch HD?
On February 29 2012 06:31 Canucklehead wrote: Can someone clarity the $5 sub for me. Does this mean HD for major events or every single event? By that I mean, will ipl team league and fight club, etc require the $5 sub to watch HD?
On February 28 2012 05:12 IGNProLeague wrote: This paid subscription model will take effect the first week of April, with IPL4 being the first of our events to be covered by it. All of our streams will continue to be free in all resolutions until IPL4.
On February 28 2012 05:12 IGNProLeague wrote: If you are currently an IGN Prime member, we want to make sure you can take advantage of this offer, so we will offer a one time opportunity to migrate from IGN Prime to our new Twitch.tv subscription page. Details on that are still to come.
I am, and I became a member because of the fantastic job you did on IPL3, and I am really happy that you decided to do it this way.
Happy enough to stay on and get the twitch subscription in addition I think.
On February 29 2012 06:31 Canucklehead wrote: Can someone clarity the $5 sub for me. Does this mean HD for major events or every single event? By that I mean, will ipl team league and fight club, etc require the $5 sub to watch HD?
On February 28 2012 05:12 IGNProLeague wrote: This paid subscription model will take effect the first week of April, with IPL4 being the first of our events to be covered by it. All of our streams will continue to be free in all resolutions until IPL4.
All their content will be paid HD now
Ah ok, that's what I thought but wasn't sure cause I didn't see a sub option on their stream, but that's cause it hasn't started yet.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
According to many reports, IGN has been in the process of spinning off from Newscorp since they bought UGO last year.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
According to many reports, IGN has been in the process of spinning off from Newscorp since they bought UGO last year.
'Newscorp will retain a controlling stake in the combined company.'
Anyway, I'm bias, as most Brits are towards Newscorp. Newscorp controlled tabloids in the UK are just disgusting.
On February 29 2012 04:05 IGNProLeague wrote:We are using a third-party Facebook utility because it makes sense for our promotion. Facebook and Twitter both have millions of users that do not browse TeamLiquid.net or Reddit.com that could potentially be interested in our event. You certainly do not have to agree to a ToS or Privacy Policy to purchase a ticket, which costs $25. You can skip all of the promotion and just buy the ticket on our Eventbrite page here: http://ipl4.eventbrite.com/
We're sorry that you are against this sort of promotional discount, but many people will find it beneficial. We can justify the 50% discount because of the potential of more tickets sold.
Thanks for the response. I understand your reasoning. I just wanted to voice an (admittedly probably minority) opinion against it. Regardless, if I end up making a trip to Las Vegas for this, a difference of $12.50 on the spectator ticket price certainly won't be a deal-breaker.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
I wish we had that much power to sway the great corporations of our times. Of course NewsCorp is a pretty machiavellian organization, and we cannot do much to avoid that. But what can IPL, or even IGN do? NewsCorp accquired them, and they need to work their best within these parameters.
Just because Murdoch is evil does not mean that you instantly distrust everything IPL does. David Ting is not some secret agent on a task assigned by Murdoch to destroy esports by undercutting the competition. He's a guy who has passion for SC2, and took the risk of starting IPL within IGN.
One year later, IPL is offering premium content in the form of team tournaments, fight clubs, and of course, a major LAN event with some of the world's best players. This is not about MLG vs IPL. This is just another great Esports event.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
that may be true, but i dont really care. free stream>paid stream, especially when the quality of the players is the same. although i guess MLG was free, so you may have a point
Group A and B could not be any more differant. When I saw Group B in particular I knew there was something strange about it, and then I realized it is stuff with the three most stylistic players of each respective race (WhiteRa - Protoss, Stephano - Zerg, MKP - Marines)
I'm not to familiar with Tails style, but Nestea and aLive play their races as smart and normal as possible.
You then have group C which is comprised of the best TvP players in the world.
Group D? That group will be known for having players that Idra will lose to.
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
I wish we had that much power to sway the great corporations of our times. Of course NewsCorp is a pretty machiavellian organization, and we cannot do much to avoid that. But what can IPL, or even IGN do? NewsCorp accquired them, and they need to work their best within these parameters.
Just because Murdoch is evil does not mean that you instantly distrust everything IPL does. David Ting is not some secret agent on a task assigned by Murdoch to destroy esports by undercutting the competition. He's a guy who has passion for SC2, and took the risk of starting IPL within IGN.
One year later, IPL is offering premium content in the form of team tournaments, fight clubs, and of course, a major LAN event with some of the world's best players. This is not about MLG vs IPL. This is just another great Esports event.
Thats not the point. What I'm asking is are the IGN's target market (us, esports fans) happy with companies losing six figures on a single event and continuing to offer content at rock bottom prices, even if it means that in a year or so its possible we won't have any leagues at all? I'm talking about sustainability. I cannot see how IPL can be making a profit considering the number of people it employs and the number of events with high cash prizes it hosts.
I just don't see sc2 growing the amount they are obviously hoping it does.
Anyway, maybe I'm just taking it too seriously. I have no doubt IPL4 is going to be excellent. I just hope future IPL events are possible.
I like how people are acting like SC2 is dying. This is false and something Sundance wanted to implant in people to validate his money making for the last PPV. SC2 dying if he didn't charge 20$ for 1 event? lol
On February 28 2012 08:51 sephuys wrote: LoB is obviously angry, people are allowed to point out that they appreciate how IPL is doing things and that MLG should take notes. We as esports fans dont care how much it all costs to put on and if you can afford it. We just want to see good players play in high quality for the best deal. IPL is offering the quality and the value. You can laugh about us comparing them on your own time.
LoB is angry, but his basic point is completely on the money (no pun intended). No matter what people wish to believe, Newscorp do not give one flying fuck about esports. Period. They. Do. Not. Care. They care about money and brand exposure. The same organisation who hacked the phones of a murder victim back the IGN Pro League. Thats a fact. I really wonder what kind of fantasy World people on this forum live in. They see esports as a potential growth market, which is why they are willing to get shafted for six figures on one event (IPL3) and charge artificially low prices for their events in future. Its called a bubble, they are going to price other leagues out of the market and its not good for esports, no matter what the masses say.
People should seriously look at the situation realistically and stop bashing anyone who says anything negative about IPL.
Edit - I understand this is harshly worded. Its just very frustrating that everyone jumps down the throats of anyone who says anything bad about IPL. For once people need to look past the fact we are getting high quality content for nothing, that our casters are getting full time jobs and that IGN makes MLG look like the bad guys. Bigger picture.
I wish we had that much power to sway the great corporations of our times. Of course NewsCorp is a pretty machiavellian organization, and we cannot do much to avoid that. But what can IPL, or even IGN do? NewsCorp accquired them, and they need to work their best within these parameters.
Just because Murdoch is evil does not mean that you instantly distrust everything IPL does. David Ting is not some secret agent on a task assigned by Murdoch to destroy esports by undercutting the competition. He's a guy who has passion for SC2, and took the risk of starting IPL within IGN.
One year later, IPL is offering premium content in the form of team tournaments, fight clubs, and of course, a major LAN event with some of the world's best players. This is not about MLG vs IPL. This is just another great Esports event.
Thats not the point. What I'm asking is are the IGN's target market (us, esports fans) happy with companies losing six figures on a single event and continuing to offer content at rock bottom prices, even if it means that in a year or so its possible we won't have any leagues at all? I'm talking about sustainability. I cannot see how IPL can be making a profit considering the number of people it employs and the number of events with high cash prizes it hosts.
I just don't see sc2 growing the amount they are obviously hoping it does.
Anyway, maybe I'm just taking it too seriously. I have no doubt IPL4 is going to be excellent. I just hope future IPL events are possible.
It is sustainable for IGN because they can write it off as a marketing expense. Through IPL, IGN has bought a lot of goodwill in the SC2 and LoL communities, as well as get its name out into the communities.
MLG's outlook is not bad either, since it appeared that MLG hit the target PPV subscriptions that they were hoping for, and are planning to add more Arenas in the spring.
I think $5-10 dollars is the right price for something like this. $20 was too much as a child for me to pay for MLG, unfortunately (even though I'd have loved to).
On February 28 2012 05:23 gullberg wrote: Well Idra looks pretty fucked!
April is still awhile off. If he can get his ZvT back to where it was at the end of 2011, he's got a very good chance of advancing.
He took out bomber at MLG last year, it's not inconceivable that he could do so again. But certainly something is off with his play at the moment and if he can't figure out what and fix it by April I don't see him going far.
He does have a tendency to be looking terrible and then busting out some serious results so I wouldn't feel confident saying he's screwed.
With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
I think it's a problem because it will hurt the foreign player-base. Already, there are more S Korean pro-players than in the foreign scene. This can only be exacerbated by there being no place for foreign players in big tournaments. What are you playing for if you can't even qualify for the major tournaments?
And I question the continued interest in the SC2-scene dominated by Koreans, even in the foreign tournaments. Not among the hardcore fans. They'll still be there, just like they were in SC:BW. But the casuals, the fans of players of their own nationality, will they stick around for the future of 17/20 Korean tournaments? With SC:BW as a precedent, the answer is 'no'.
Have been watching the IPL TAC since the first round and have been loving it.
Will definitely be paying the $5. Partly for the HD streams / VODs but mainly to support the great work that IPL have been doing, especially since and including IPL3. It also seems to be a very reasonable price point and with free streams I don't feel like anybody gets screwed.
Foreign players can be Korean players if they try and practice hard enough. This outlook of Koreans are invincible Gods is simply not true. I feel like a lot of Koreans is a good thing, bring the best to the foreigners, and see if they can go toe to toe. I like it, and I can't wait to see it unfold. Koreans are good, but "if it bleeds, you can kill it." Or in this case, beat it at Starcraft 2. :p
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
I think it's a problem because it will hurt the foreign player-base. Already, there are more S Korean pro-players than in the foreign scene. This can only be exacerbated by there being no place for foreign players in big tournaments. What are you playing for if you can't even qualify for the major tournaments?
And I question the continued interest in the SC2-scene dominated by Koreans, even in the foreign tournaments. Not among the hardcore fans. They'll still be there, just like they were in SC:BW. But the casuals, the fans of players of their own nationality, will they stick around for the future of 17/20 Korean tournaments? With SC:BW as a precedent, the answer is 'no'.
i only want to see the best, if the Koreans are the best, so be it. These organisations can run tournaments with none Koreans but we all know what the result would be, extremely low viewership and the feeling of "okay this foreigner won, what does it prove? no Koreans were here.
A lot of pros such as naniwa WANT koreans in the big tournaments as they dont see winning a tournament without a korean anything to brag about.
Fuck me, I know it's early but what the hell is IPL5 gonna be? Underpriced 1080p stream, GSTL finals? This shit is insane, MLG needs to take notes. IPL is progressing ever further while they're going backwards ripping their loyal fanbase off. It's sad and I hope I'm not out of line but when you have pages and pages of people rejoicing rather than complaining, you KNOW you've set the right price.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
IGN's full financial might? Do you have a source on this? A post on TL or Reddit you can quote? Or an article? Very difficult to believe considering what David Ting said after IPL2, before and after IPL3, during the PPSL scandal, and many more.
On March 02 2012 08:26 Xpace wrote: Fuck me, I know it's early but what the hell is IPL5 gonna be? Underpriced 1080p stream, GSTL finals? This shit is insane, MLG needs to take notes. IPL is progressing ever further while they're going backwards ripping their loyal fanbase off. It's sad and I hope I'm not out of line but when you have pages and pages of people rejoicing rather than complaining, you KNOW you've set the right price.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
IGN's full financial might? Do you have a source on this? A post on TL or Reddit you can quote? Or an article? Very difficult to believe considering what David Ting said after IPL2, before and after IPL3, during the PPSL scandal, and many more.
Do you honestly think IPL will even get close to breaking even with this? Hell, I wish it was priced higher because esports, and what these leagues are doing, needs to be a sustainable industry. I thought the MLG Arena was well worth it, and this is certainly worth it.
On March 02 2012 08:26 Xpace wrote: Fuck me, I know it's early but what the hell is IPL5 gonna be? Underpriced 1080p stream, GSTL finals? This shit is insane, MLG needs to take notes. IPL is progressing ever further while they're going backwards ripping their loyal fanbase off. It's sad and I hope I'm not out of line but when you have pages and pages of people rejoicing rather than complaining, you KNOW you've set the right price.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
IGN's full financial might? Do you have a source on this? A post on TL or Reddit you can quote? Or an article? Very difficult to believe considering what David Ting said after IPL2, before and after IPL3, during the PPSL scandal, and many more.
funny you say "loyal fanbase" about mlg, one would think a loyal fanbase would support them with there money, You cant be loyal and not give a dime to the company, There is a difference. Mlg has repeated said the areana's were more like special events, They would not happen at all if it was not for PPV. The championships are still there, they are still free to watch with 75000 prize pool. People need to wake up and get off this retarded bandwagon.
In the end i want both MLG and IGN to see success because they are both great .
On March 02 2012 08:26 Xpace wrote: Fuck me, I know it's early but what the hell is IPL5 gonna be? Underpriced 1080p stream, GSTL finals? This shit is insane, MLG needs to take notes. IPL is progressing ever further while they're going backwards ripping their loyal fanbase off. It's sad and I hope I'm not out of line but when you have pages and pages of people rejoicing rather than complaining, you KNOW you've set the right price.
On February 28 2012 05:47 AtlasEndured wrote: For everyone criticising MLG/saying MLG should take notes, you should realise that MLG doesn't have the full financial might of IGN behind them, and IPL offering this content for $5 is far, far easier for them.
IGN's full financial might? Do you have a source on this? A post on TL or Reddit you can quote? Or an article? Very difficult to believe considering what David Ting said after IPL2, before and after IPL3, during the PPSL scandal, and many more.
funny you say "loyal fanbase" about mlg, one would think a loyal fanbase would support them with there money, You cant be loyal and not give a dime to the company, There is a difference. Mlg has repeated said the areana's were more like special events, They would not happen at all if it was not for PPV. The championships are still there, they are still free to watch with 75000 prize pool. People need to wake up and get off this retarded bandwagon.
In the end i want both MLG and IGN to see success because they are both great .
Ah, there it is. I was thinking of using a different word than loyalty because I was sure I'd be quoted on that. In any event, loyalty is earned, and in the same way it can be lost. Being "loyal" to MLG could mean a lot of things. I'm not hating on MLG, I'm just saying I personally found the $20 price-tag ridiculous, it seems not a lot of people could see that rationale. There is no 'bandwagon'. There are people that didn't like it, there are people that agreed with it. Just because TL loves to take sides and defend theirs to the end, doesn't mean there's a 'bandwagon'. Get off your high horse, because there are a lot who disagreed with it and expressed their opinions in a valid, non-troll fashion. Arena of Legends, King of Kongs, Team Ace Invitational, Team Arena Challenge, Fight Club, and many more. I really don't see how this "special event" can warrant a price tag way above the others.
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
Because a lot of pepole don't only want to see the best play, they also want to see pepole who they care about play, i'm not going to bother to go to a barcraft or stay late just to watch some good games, there's a ton of good games, but not a ton of games withplayers who I care about.
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
I think it's a problem because it will hurt the foreign player-base. Already, there are more S Korean pro-players than in the foreign scene. This can only be exacerbated by there being no place for foreign players in big tournaments. What are you playing for if you can't even qualify for the major tournaments?
And I question the continued interest in the SC2-scene dominated by Koreans, even in the foreign tournaments. Not among the hardcore fans. They'll still be there, just like they were in SC:BW. But the casuals, the fans of players of their own nationality, will they stick around for the future of 17/20 Korean tournaments? With SC:BW as a precedent, the answer is 'no'.
You're full of it.
If the situation was reversed. say europeans were dominant and Koreans were struggling, would you give two craps if Korean's had trouble filling in spots for major tourneys?
No you wouldn't, you just don't want to see koreans, because you don't like them.
If people care so much about race etc, and they stop watching, then good riddance, I want to see the best of the best regardless of one's skin color
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
I think it's a problem because it will hurt the foreign player-base. Already, there are more S Korean pro-players than in the foreign scene. This can only be exacerbated by there being no place for foreign players in big tournaments. What are you playing for if you can't even qualify for the major tournaments?
And I question the continued interest in the SC2-scene dominated by Koreans, even in the foreign tournaments. Not among the hardcore fans. They'll still be there, just like they were in SC:BW. But the casuals, the fans of players of their own nationality, will they stick around for the future of 17/20 Korean tournaments? With SC:BW as a precedent, the answer is 'no'.
You're full of it.
If the situation was reversed. say europeans were dominant and Koreans were struggling, would you give two craps if Korean's had trouble filling in spots for major tourneys?
No you wouldn't, you just don't want to see koreans, because you don't like them.
If people care so much about race etc, and they stop watching, then good riddance, I want to see the best of the best regardless of one's skin color
I can't speak for anyone else, but if Europeans were dominating, I would like to see more Koreans represented. I think an analogy can be made to the Football World Cup, where I don't just want to see an all European/ South America tournament, even though these teams are arguably the strongest. I like it when underdogs like the US, Japan, South Korea or Ghana can make a respectable run as well, and I like that the World Cup tries to represent the entire world, rather than simply the world's best.
Interesting decision to have it at the Cosmopolitan, that is a high-end hotel! I would love to go but I already have a trip to Vegas later in April. Maybe for IPL 5?
I can't speak for anyone else, but if Europeans were dominating, I would like to see more Koreans represented. I think an analogy can be made to the Football World Cup, where I don't just want to see an all European/ South America tournament, even though these teams are arguably the strongest. I like it when underdogs like the US, Japan, South Korea or Ghana can make a respectable run as well, and I like that the World Cup tries to represent the entire world, rather than simply the world's best.
I completely disagree. If watching a stream, let alone paying money, I want to see the best of the best play. Realistically, lets say IPL keeps 96 spots open for NA/EU players. Would you enjoy watching streams where the RO128/RO64 is purely one sided games of NA/EU players getting demolished? Or would you prefer a first come first serve basis, and allowing as many Koreans as they want to register providing(in theory) you with more action packed games?
I can't speak for anyone else, but if Europeans were dominating, I would like to see more Koreans represented. I think an analogy can be made to the Football World Cup, where I don't just want to see an all European/ South America tournament, even though these teams are arguably the strongest. I like it when underdogs like the US, Japan, South Korea or Ghana can make a respectable run as well, and I like that the World Cup tries to represent the entire world, rather than simply the world's best.
I completely disagree. If watching a stream, let alone paying money, I want to see the best of the best play. Realistically, lets say IPL keeps 96 spots open for NA/EU players. Would you enjoy watching streams where the RO128/RO64 is purely one sided games of NA/EU players getting demolished? Or would you prefer a first come first serve basis, and allowing as many Koreans as they want to register providing(in theory) you with more action packed games?
the world cup would not really be the world cup if it was only a tournament for europe and south america as they would be the only teams that can qualify. Yea sure not all the games will be top notch, but it gives a little something for everyone out there. And who knows, every world cup there are upsets where these supposed "teams that dont stand a chance" win or draw against teams they were suppose to loose against. That creates even bigger storylines.
Besides there is the gsl for the koreans. I prefer the direction mlg/ipl have done to include every region. The end result is still the same, Best team or player wins.
On February 29 2012 19:06 m0ck wrote: With the GSTL-players in the open bracket, IPL 4 could end up as GSL mk. 2, only in america instead of Korea. I mean, fill up the last spots of the groups with Koreans (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316173) and we're at 17/20 originating in Korea. I don't think that is a good or healthy development.
I disagree with this outlook. If those are the best players then I don't see why that's not a healthy development. I would much rather see the best Starcraft than Starcraft played by someone who isn't South Korean. To me the way forward isn't "how can we have more non-Koreans do well at foreigner events?" but "how can we bring the best players to SC2 tournaments?" If every MLG and IPL, etc. has players like Nesta, MVP, MMA, MC, Leenock, DRG etc. but the consequence is that foreigners won't do as well, well that honestly seems fair to me. The Korean players are better and imo clearly more deserving of having their play broadcasted.
Plus, look at HuK. If a foreign players goes to Korea and seriously practices in a team house, in the same manner as Korean pros, then they can become competitive.
I think it's a problem because it will hurt the foreign player-base. Already, there are more S Korean pro-players than in the foreign scene. This can only be exacerbated by there being no place for foreign players in big tournaments. What are you playing for if you can't even qualify for the major tournaments?
And I question the continued interest in the SC2-scene dominated by Koreans, even in the foreign tournaments. Not among the hardcore fans. They'll still be there, just like they were in SC:BW. But the casuals, the fans of players of their own nationality, will they stick around for the future of 17/20 Korean tournaments? With SC:BW as a precedent, the answer is 'no'.
Then it is the foreigner players' own fault for not training harder than korean players. I dont think korean players have the better genes to play starcraft, so they practiced a ton more than foreigners, it is only fair that only the players who put in the hardest work should be invited. If you want foreign sc2 scene to grow, tell the foreign players to stop being lazy and practice as hard as the koreans instead of asking tournaments to invite more less skilled foreigners. You can see foreign progamers such as Destiny wasting time on LoL rather than practicing hard for sc2, if they use those time on practicing sc2 they could improve significantly.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vs5pG.png)
coLMVP.TAiLS (Live event Qualifier)
FnaticRaidCall.aLive (Online Qualifier)
IM.NesTea (Invitee)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AiAgN.png)
Facebook, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
Twitter, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
![[image loading]](http://b.images.memegenerator.net/instances/200x/15307169.jpg)
hahah but I'm a huge MMA fan as well. Should be an insane event!
