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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
I'm probably going to be buying a ticket this time. Not just to "support eSports", but because I think it's worth it. I would prefer to pay $20 to watch the best players play than pay nothing to watch mediocre players play, honestly.
However, I would not buy one every time if this became a regular occurence. Again, not because I don't want to support eSports, but because I could not afford it. I don't have any stats for this, but I suspect a great many people are in the same boat: aged < 30, and therefore not on such a high income that luxuries are affordable on a frequent basis. As a one-time thing, sure, but I can't pay for both GSL and MLG regularly.
It's a shame that this came as a surprise to people - on Twitter Sundance kept making allusions to pouring money in last year as an investment, and that they were going to be "leaner and meaner" (read: expect to actually make money). The amount of money might have been ($20 is a lot for one weekend is a lot, $10 would be preferable) but surely nobody expected to be able to watch MLG free forever?
Every MLG so far has been sick, and I hope this one is too!
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On February 15 2012 07:57 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 07:53 Sway.746 wrote:On February 15 2012 07:49 Jibba wrote:On February 15 2012 07:36 Sway.746 wrote:On February 15 2012 07:33 Jibba wrote:On February 15 2012 07:29 Sway.746 wrote:On February 15 2012 07:23 Jibba wrote:On February 15 2012 07:19 Sway.746 wrote:On February 15 2012 07:14 Mithriel wrote:
Im really curious about difference in revenue between a free stream with quite a lot of ads and the 20$ no free stream variant. See what the best business decision would be. Though we could get the perfect numbers only in a perfect world to calculate which would be best ( or what price would draw most people) If they only get 3% of the viewership, but are making $20 per person instead of purely the ad revenue, then they're making substantially more money. However, now their customer base has shrunk thirty-fold, and they're almost certainly still not profitable. If they ever want to be profitable, they will have to lower their cost structure or have more viewers (and charging for, and thereby alienating a large percentage of your potential and current audience hinders that a LOT). Poor long-term decision, I think. Remember viewers also cost them money too, so less viewers reduces their bandwidth cost. It's not simply the difference in ad revenue like it would be for TV. Perhaps it's different with the Twitch.tv package they're demoing now. Bandwidth cost is close to zero compared to their other costs. There is absolutely no way that it was a factor in this decision. I don't know what their deal with Akamai was, but I think you're underestimating bandwidth. It's not an unsubstantial amount. If they're paying too much for bandwidth then it's another problem altogether. If they're losing money on bandwidth by streaming content with ads then they were really, really doing it wrong. Well Akamai was charging $.07 per GBps last year, Amazon was $.05, but MLG had an agreement with Akamai. Assuming medium quality (750Kbps) and with 3.6 million hours of video watched for Providence, that's over $80,000 for that. For the entire circuit, it's over $300,000. I'm sure they had some other deal besides that, that's just the standard rate Akamai would charge. If you're a content company that is losing money on every viewer, you're doing it wrong. Having your main product have a negative margin is terrible business practice. I have no idea why they've gotten investments time and time again. I agree, and that's why mainstream ESPORTS is a folly. But that's what they're all doing. The "best" are limping by and everything that requires substantial production takes a loss. If you've got Samsung or IGN behind you, it's just easier to absorb it.
I'll take indie tournaments and streams over big events any day if they all start charging 20$ a tournament. I just don't feel Sc2 is worth that kind of money to watch yet.
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What's with all this blood on the floor.....
Oh, MLG have just shot themselves in the foot.
XD
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Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season.
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On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season.
will you be removing the 'no fluff' banner for this episode? Let's not kid ourselves. 
ps i love you slasher
pps but seriously.
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On February 15 2012 00:30 ParkwayDrive wrote:
lots of you are missing the point. personally i could probably afford to pay up to $100 to watch this event, but i am still not paying the 20 because mlg has not proven they can put on a show worth that kind of money. and gtfo with paying up just to support esports. thats the most economically backwards logic i have heard since alan greenspan was at the Fed.
if anything, those of us not paying are supporting esports because maybe if enough of us bow out, sundance will either be forced to improve his product or mlg will fail and someone else will step in hopefully with better ideas (ipl any1?)
econ 101 people
quoting and reposting because i truly believe it to be the most logical post in this thread
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United States994 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:17 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season. will you be removing the 'no fluff' banner for this episode? Let's not kid ourselves. ps i love you slasher pps but seriously.
Slasher calls MLG out more than any person on the internet nowadays, take a look at twitter hah.
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On February 15 2012 08:17 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season. will you be removing the 'no fluff' banner for this episode? Let's not kid ourselves. ps i love you slasher pps but seriously.
Slasher doesn't work for MLG anymore. I imagine he would try to leak as much stuff as possible when sundance is on.
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On February 15 2012 08:17 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season. will you be removing the 'no fluff' banner for this episode? Let's not kid ourselves. ps i love you slasher pps but seriously.
What still works with MLG as a caster and EG shares some sponsors with MLG if I am not mistaken? So I don't have high hopes for that but we'll see, bring it on Slasher!
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definitely gonna try it, 20 bucks is not much considering how much other stuff costs, if its high quality stuff then i'm happy to pay.
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Well, byebye MLG 
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On February 15 2012 07:52 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 07:49 Sway.746 wrote:
It doesn't matter that they'll make more money this time, because right now they should be in viewer-building mode. What if they believe SC2 has reached its limit?
They clearly don't as growth was mentioned multiple times in the OP in regards to both 2011 and 2012.
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Maybe i am really cynical... but seriously. I don't by the whole "We wanna grow esports for you, so just give us your MONEY and we'll take care of it"
It feels dishonest and i see this stuff more and more and it needs to stop imo. You want to make money, simple as that. Don't hide behind some notion of how honorable you are for doing this unselfishly "for esports".
Nothing wrong with wanting to turn profit. Now you just have to make sure that your product is good enough for people to pay for it. But please don't try and huilt us in to paying with "For the sake of esports, give us your money!"
my .02 $
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On February 15 2012 08:11 quantumslip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 07:57 nimdil wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone. Google makes stuff free for people and bam! The make profit! Facebook is free and BAM! I don't think Mark has any problems with feeding his family. What a joke. Do you have any idea how many other companies do that and have utterly failed? Google and Facebook are the exceptions, not the norm.
Maybe they delivered a superior product, period?
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On February 15 2012 08:32 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:11 quantumslip wrote:On February 15 2012 07:57 nimdil wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone. Google makes stuff free for people and bam! The make profit! Facebook is free and BAM! I don't think Mark has any problems with feeding his family. What a joke. Do you have any idea how many other companies do that and have utterly failed? Google and Facebook are the exceptions, not the norm. Maybe they delivered a superior product, period?
What happened to myspace when facebook came out? Maybe we should all go donate money to myspace or risk killing the internet?
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On February 15 2012 08:32 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:11 quantumslip wrote:On February 15 2012 07:57 nimdil wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone. Google makes stuff free for people and bam! The make profit! Facebook is free and BAM! I don't think Mark has any problems with feeding his family. What a joke. Do you have any idea how many other companies do that and have utterly failed? Google and Facebook are the exceptions, not the norm. Maybe they delivered a superior product, period?
Google and Facebook are an entirely different kind of company. You cant charge people to use a search engine or to use a social network because both require hits to be even remotely successful. The entertainment industry, and e-sports is part of that, requires money to keep functioning and without that the quality of product will go way way down.
A lot of google and facebooks profits are a lot less baed
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On February 15 2012 07:57 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone. Google makes stuff free for people and bam! The make profit! Facebook is free and BAM! I don't think Mark has any problems with feeding his family. What a joke.
Pls turn on your brain on before comparing Google and Facebook to MLG or E-sports organisations in general. Gosh it hurts my brain that people keep doing that.
On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season.
AWESOME! Cant wait
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On February 15 2012 08:19 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 08:17 crms wrote:On February 15 2012 08:16 Slasher wrote:
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena, PPV, and the future of the 2012 season. will you be removing the 'no fluff' banner for this episode? Let's not kid ourselves. ps i love you slasher pps but seriously. Slasher calls MLG out more than any person on the internet nowadays, take a look at twitter hah.
I call organizations and personalities out equally based on importance and timeliness. MLG has a very strong position in the community and eSports industry as a whole that makes news from the league larger of a discussion than others. Which is great for MLG because it's announcements and topics worth talking about. Most of it as of late has just been negative, so it amounts to more. Even with leagues, ESL has gotten equal if not more complaints from me.
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Btw omg so much hate in this thread! Cant all these bitter haters just not buy the Winter Arena stream and leave MLG and those who want to buy it alone?
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The outrage over this feels very childish (literally) to me. I've seen people complain that:
- Because MLG was formerly free, they owe the community further free tournaments.
- MLG should be OK with losing money right now (insert a litany of reasons).
- If a small 1 day tournament can charge $5, MLG's large 3-day tournament with the top casters should charge $5!
We need to pay for things we consume in this world. If your not willing to pay for the MLG, thats a sign you give it a very low value. You have to pay for everything else in the world. I get the sense that a lot of the outrage is coming from younger people who haven't yet paid any bills or lived on their own (that isn't a flame, but is my honest feeling). Its understandable immaturity, but not something that is really offering any sound arguments.
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EPT
