Episode 2: Gus Ledesma and the Philippine Pro Starcraft League's IPL 4 Pacific QualifierNovember 16, 2011 02:00 GMT (+00:00)
Like most first-time esports events, the Philippino Pro Starcraft League’s IPL 4 Pacific Qualifier had its fair share of set-backs...and then some. CSInsider takes a deeper look at the events leading up to the PPSL, its management, and its execution to find out exactly where things went wrong and what it all means for South-East Asian esports.
Click the images to access the VoDs.
Click on the images to access the VoDs.
*Note* This show features pre-recorded content for the purposes of streamlining production and guaranteeing the guest list. Content has been edited for clarity only. Guests' words and opinions have not been altered in any way.
What is Cyber Sports Insider?
CSInsider is a reactionary show meant to provide an informed perspective on 1 major topic currently going on in the e-Sport communities. The audience may also have a chance to interact and ask any questions regarding the topic by listing your questions here on the TL thread, reddit or stream chat.
When will live episodes of CSInsider air?
New episodes will air in response to the community’s demand for clarification. Shows will be announced on available news sites and on Twitter via @CyberSportsNet and @SeltzerPlease.
VoDs: Episode 1: HuK to EG: Is this the right move for eSports?August 21, 2011 2100 EST + Show Spoiler +
Shortly after team Evil Geniuses scored NASL winner PuMa on their roster, they made another strong acquisition and signed former Team Liquid player HuK. Is this a good sign for competitive gaming or is player-trading killing eSports? Scott “SirScoots” Smith joins us to discuss.
Hmm, sounds interesting. I will def listen to the first show if you will have mp3 up somewhere for me to download (work prevents me from listening live )
On August 20 2011 14:02 SirScoots wrote: Looking forward to this! GET SOME!
I will be back soon with some hardball questions for you. Now, I just must think. This is nice though, regardless. Hopefully the questions will be good.
On August 20 2011 12:48 how wrote: Hmm, sounds interesting. I will def listen to the first show if you will have mp3 up somewhere for me to download (work prevents me from listening live )
VoDs links will be updated on the TL thread fairly soon after each show airs.
Shouldn't you invite another person to counter SirScoot's opinion? Of course he's going to say the acquisition of Huk is good for e-sports. Who's going to talk about the other side? Or are the hosts going to argue from the point that the trade is hurting esports?
On August 21 2011 00:15 ptbl wrote: Shouldn't you invite another person to counter SirScoot's opinion? Of course he's going to say the acquisition of Huk is good for e-sports. Who's going to talk about the other side? Or are the hosts going to argue from the point that the trade is hurting esports?
I think they are counting on the call-ins to provide most of the counter-arguments.
I would like it to be available on mp3 through rss-subscribtion, and I was sorely disappointed that the OP was purely a hype announcement and didn't include the first episode or a pilot.
On August 21 2011 00:15 ptbl wrote: Shouldn't you invite another person to counter SirScoot's opinion? Of course he's going to say the acquisition of Huk is good for e-sports. Who's going to talk about the other side? Or are the hosts going to argue from the point that the trade is hurting esports?
The shows context will have both sides of the fence in regards to this type of thing happening being a good thing or bad thing for eSports. Also we are counting on the community to provide some awesome call ins or questions for SirScoots on the situation as well.
Nothing is killing eSports. Really wish people would start dropping that shit. It's old and moldy. It's funny that you guys are going to have SirScoots on to talk about it. Anyway, good luck with this. Too many pod casts to keep up with like tournaments these days.
I agree that the 'killing eSports' thing is a bit overdone.. same with flipping tables and all that stuff.. I guess it is just part of gaming. I do not really get rapped up into it.. but I think in this case with Scoots and Huk it's an issue that very much needs to be looked at and explained. A lot of what is happening with these player contracts will have a direct impact on how SC2 and other games evolve or remain sustainable. I am very curious to see his thoughts on 'where we go from now', more then anything.
I also agree.. a lot of tournaments.. but in the end.. quality will win out over quantity!
i want to know how scoots views the scene in Korea developing versus the scene in the west. it seems like eg is putting a lot of focus on putting people in korea with the addition of huk and puma, but they still have there house in arizona.
On August 23 2011 06:57 csn_andrew wrote: very interesting first episode with SirScoots!
The link for the VoD has been updated on the OP, we are planning episode 2 already!
Sorry Scoots iternet went out at the end of the show when we were taking callers, and thank you to all of those that tuned in!
Nice show, despite the forgivable technologically challenged conclusion. I heard Rachel state that there will be a show whenever there is an event worthy of one. In more practical terms, will that translate to 1 show per month on average? Or will it simply fluctuate with the tournament seasons as they come and go?
Personally, I would like to see the show on a regular basis to create a loyal fan base.. and that may be where it's headed, but as we work out the technical issues and make sure to provide the highest quality it may be on a more 'as needed' basis until then.
Rachel is very good at what she does, but I know she recognizes the importance of quality over quantity and until the quality of each show can be at it's highest.. you probably won't see the show on a daily or weekly basis.
Are there suggestions for another topic and guest that needs to be addressed?
On August 20 2011 12:39 csn_andrew wrote: Is this a good sign for competitive gaming or is player-trading killing eSports? Scott “SirScoots” Smith joins us to discuss.
Gee, I wonder what the conclusion of that topic will be. -_-
I enjoyed the show. The format of revolving itself around the guest was a good choice, in that it differentiated itself from other shows that mainly focus on roundtable discussions.
I'd like to see HuK as a guest to talk about his EG decision and his insane August travel schedule. Naniwa or Thorzain would be good guests to have once they leave Korea to maybe reflect on their experiences. Maybe after this MLG, since its been hinted that 2012 news will break this weekend, have Sundance, Lee, or Adam talk about MLG's future plans for 2012. Someone from IGN perhaps to talk about the success of IPL and the upcoming IPL 3 live event.
Also it would be nice to have an audio version of future episodes.
For those that may not be able to make it as it happens.. we will make sure to update the post immediately with where you will be able to watch it or download it.
I wish we could have asked the host to ask a question for the community if it was live.
I have a question that I think needs to be asked, since there seems to be inadequate funds that were irresponsibly spent on the PPSL, and he has no capacity to pay the rest of the outstanding debts, why in the world did he promise to give YoonYJ 1600usd for his right for the airfare that was meant for him to go to the PPSL around February 2012? And if he was bold enough to say such a thing to YoonYJ, why wasn't he man enough to tell TGR, Amanda, and the rest who he hasn't paid when he'd be paying them?
On November 17 2011 08:48 csn_JohnClark wrote: This show will air in just over 2 hours.... for those that are having issues with the time zone calculations.
On November 17 2011 08:48 csn_JohnClark wrote: This show will air in just over 2 hours.... for those that are having issues with the time zone calculations.
Dox giving some history on the events he has worked with.
Dox explaining that he didn't have a lot of info to go on with regards to the main PPSL tournament - he felt that there was a lot of miscommunication (or lack thereof from Gus).
AZKiek climbs up again from under the bridge. Says that Dox got more stuff wrong other than his misinterpretation of AZKAvoider's messages to him.
And yet again in classic troll behaviour, when people ask him to provide any kind of substantial proof of what else Dox didn't get right, he turns to insulting people in the chat. Classic troll.
David Rossi gave some good insight into the event as a player - the crowd and games were pretty cool, he was unhappy with the soundproofing, and he was glad that the PPSL happened (as an event) because it gave the Philippines some exposure to the world of esports.
Can CSN post a transcript of the interview here after the show? Stream is bad. Also Seltzer seems the wrong person for this, she can't even ask the questions people want to know,
So far he has not answered anything. When asked about the internet he says they had a great sponsor and then it didn't work out due to 'technicalities with the venue'. He says they wanted 10mbit up/down and he seems uncertain of the number of machines they needed to provide for. He had no contract with the gaming lounge for the internet access and these were all handshake 'friend' deals
On November 17 2011 12:00 Sein wrote: "azkziek: that amanda thing was awesome, we got to pocket an extra 5K... bahamas here we come !"
Is that guy actually from AZK?
Yes, he's the biggest troll in Australia. He's banned from every community website and forum you can think of. He brought "bodyguards" with him to the WCG QLD Qualifiers because he was at risk of being bashed.
shit man if i was gus and had agreed to this interview i would have asked for the questions ahead of time and prepare some better answers. all this "uh um uh um" is really making him look even worse.
On November 17 2011 12:25 Zvek wrote: Can CSN post a transcript of the interview here after the show? Stream is bad. Also Seltzer seems the wrong person for this, she can't even ask the questions people want to know,
Pay the damn monies Gus "Criminal" Ledesma!
She's asking smart questions jesus and leading into the big ones. If she starts being aggressive he's not going to say anything.
Seltzer asks where he was day 1. Said he was up till 4am, woke up at 10am and got there around lunch. He expected if he didn't turn up and said he takes responsibility but that each individual had their own role to play and seems to think they should have been able to do them "they should have penned out the way I thought they did..it was chaotic, everybody was looking for me, the you know umm turnover wasn't quite what we expected it to be. We had enough manpower...it's sad that this...this...umm...it didn't go well during the first day"
"It's sad, we had a lot of challenges on the first day..whole pot of issues at once we had to handle, you know for for for at first time for us doing events like these I guess were were able to adapt like not quickly but we were able to get games going during the afternoon and everything was you know everything was compeleted end of day 2 thanks to all those people there to support us"
On November 17 2011 12:25 Zvek wrote: Can CSN post a transcript of the interview here after the show? Stream is bad. Also Seltzer seems the wrong person for this, she can't even ask the questions people want to know,
Pay the damn monies Gus "Criminal" Ledesma!
She's asking smart questions jesus and leading into the big ones. If she starts being aggressive he's not going to say anything.
Uhmmm... this is prerecorded, dude. And if you are smart enough to notice, all the questions did was to give Gus "Criminal" Ledesma a chance to dodge.
"Uhh let me think, I'm trying to remember if......wait...*sigh* k can I just open my e-mail quick just uh *typing*. We weren't in contact during the you know that time I think I was pretty busy communicating with the rest of my crew on how day 2 should have been and how it should pan out"
On November 17 2011 12:25 rave[wcr] wrote: stutter = lying
To be fair English might not be his first language...
dude i went to school for 3 years in highschool in philippines. English is a big thing overthere for anyone who's been educated in highschool. they run mandatory oral speaking assignments in EVERY school. gus's english is fine. hes stuttering and mumbling for a reason.
How the hell can you forget to talk to your fucking BOSS during the event? This is so hard to watch. You can just see the poor hamsters in his brain rolling around, trying to think of any lie he can think of to bullshit us.
"Umm well first of all you know I got in touch with all the parties invovled and umm all the support groups got on a call with them to make sure we were all on the first page. I set expectations for the event for day 2 so everybody would know what was supposed to happen at this point and how it should be flawless at the start of day 2. We did incur some issues during day 2 with uhh with the uhh connection and umm I guess it was umm there it was pointed out there was a cable on the floor people were stepping on I think that was the reason the connection to the machines in the open area/booth were lagging really hard. That so far was the result of the umm investigations we did during that time"
On November 17 2011 12:25 Zvek wrote: Can CSN post a transcript of the interview here after the show? Stream is bad. Also Seltzer seems the wrong person for this, she can't even ask the questions people want to know,
Pay the damn monies Gus "Criminal" Ledesma!
She's asking smart questions jesus and leading into the big ones. If she starts being aggressive he's not going to say anything.
Uhmmm... this is prerecorded, dude. And if you are smart enough to notice, all the questions did was to give Gus "Criminal" Ledesma a chance to dodge.
What is the point of this interview if you guys are just going to call him a criminal no matter what? I'm just as pissed at the guy as you, but I'm at least trying to hear him out before I crucify him.
This guy... How can someone like that be given the responsebility to run an entire event. Not only can you not understand a single word, but he also is most apparently making up lies on the fly.
Some statements, like the things he said in the beginning of the interview, sound like poorly rehearsed phrases; probably also searched for some lawyer advice before the interview...
"Ummm the HONslaught tournament could not go as planned due to the issues during day 1 and day 2 and if we had been on schedule it would have been included in the event. It was supposed to be seperate to coincide with IPL4 but due to issues that you and I were aware of it wasnt possible. I wouldnt want to start the HON tournament without enough time for the players to like umm set things up to move the games I wouldnt want to rush anybody to finish games for the schedule it wouldnt be right"
Philo esports fan opinions:
"There were some who approached me personally and umm thanked me for bringing in people like yourselves over here umm there was a mixed reaction from the crowd there were people who were appreciative of the even and how it turned out I dont think it was a failure umm had I had more support then we wouldnt be having this conversation I guess"
"I think umm you know all major events suffer technical blowbacks once or twice, we were not spared of issuesl iek those id like to say that after all the technical difficulties we learned and adapted and day 2 was a lot better. The the crowd was extatic I could sense a lot of enthusiasm especially during the semis and finals. A lot of people went on to cheer for their favourite players. We even went to far as to buy boards and pens for them to write on to support their favourite players"
"I mean we we with the money issue we overspent on what was supposed to be, we didn't have enough just to put it in a nutshell we didnt have enough, just to say id like to respond to the allegations that some people say I pocketed the money if if other peopel wiuld know i even put in some amount towards this endevour to make sure this would be successful and I wouldnt give up my reputation just for what $12,000 it doesnt make any sense"
"No we didn't spend any sponsorship money on the trip to IPL3, that's for sure, the people who were with me would know this"
On aftermath financially:
"umm you know I talk to amanda daily and amanda ting during my communication with amanda as well. We are working on making amends and making sure all of these issues get resolved as soon as you know umm all of the negativity has taken its toll both physically and mentall on me, amanda, everybody else who worked for the event. We're working on getting this issues resolved and moving forward"
Wait... who is "we" when talking about helping amanda. Gus was mia for forever and ign runs a charity stream for her and somehow now Gus thinks we will believe he was a part of that? This is so cringe inducing.
On November 17 2011 12:38 Daniel C wrote: "Constant communication" my ass...where were you for that whole week Gus when others were being held up for the 12k...
Perhaps he means, he constantly finds new emails in his inbox.
"I never hid from anyone I'm not hiding form everyone im always here you know before i make a valid statemnt just to clear everything up I want t ojust say im collating everything to make sure i can back up everything I can. I can backup everything i can say its all about getting the truth and the facts out there"
ON TL posts etc
"Well actually we can schedule anotehr interview after everything has been resolved I guess and I would love to give everything I know from this point on after all has been been settled"
This is a fucking waste of time, I wish I hadnt seen this because it just made me more angry. He basically just bullshit for 20mins without any substance or truth and Seltzer didnt really drill him hard enough.
This is hilarious. In constant contact with ign and amanda huh? That's why in the IGN charity thread, IGN specifically said gus was MIA and they couldn't contact him.
"I made mistake, I learn from that, thats what important. Not the people who got screwed by me that risks being sent to jail. But its cool, I will grow. Thanks for your support."
lol about that he's not hiding from anyone and he's always there. he's always hiding! He needs to go on a real interview on Live on 3 b/c they aren't afraid to ask the tough questions.
"Umm hi everyone. I i just like to say in organizing this even I only had the best intentions in mind. We made mistakes, I made mistakes I learned from that thats what important, we're working to resolve all the issues that are happening at this time. I'd appreciate it if you give support to the crew who helped me during this event make this event possible our sponsors you know everyone including rachel who was there its really id also like to say umm its truly different for people who were there with eyes at the even who were there physically on the ground vs people on the internet judging by stream and TL posts and umm there's always two sides to the story. ....something something...The truth will come out"
Sorry for the shit transcription the guy talks all over the place and my RSI is playing up like crazy today ^^ Any grammatical errors are just the way he speaks lol I actually cleaned up some of it.
haha! There are 2 sides to the story and the truth is out there already but you never really did anything with the interview. Just trying to clear your name WTF?!
On November 17 2011 12:43 greatZERG wrote: Final words (sorry was mistaken)
"Umm hi everyone. I i just like to say in organizing this even I only had the best intentions in mind. We made mistakes, I made mistakes I learned from that thats what important, we're working to resolve all the issues that are happening at this time. I'd appreciate it if you give support to the crew who helped me during this event make this event possible our sponsors you know everyone including rachel who was there its really id also like to say umm its truly different for people who were there with eyes at the even who were there physically on the ground vs people on the internet judging by stream and TL posts and umm there's always two sides to the story. ....something something...The truth will come out"
Sorry for the shit transcription the guy talks all over the place and my RSI is playing up like crazy today ^^ Any grammatical errors are just the way he speaks lol I actually cleaned up some of it.
anyone got a picture of Gus "Criminal" Ledesma? I've seen it in the other threads but couldn't quite dig it up due to the volume of posts. Someone might have it handy. Thanks.
Please get Slasher to grill this guy. I'm sorry, Seltzer, but you were way too nice throughout the whole thing and let him just BS his way out of every question without actually answering any of it.
On November 17 2011 12:43 greatZERG wrote: Final words (sorry was mistaken)
"Umm hi everyone. I i just like to say in organizing this even I only had the best intentions in mind. We made mistakes, I made mistakes I learned from that thats what important, we're working to resolve all the issues that are happening at this time. I'd appreciate it if you give support to the crew who helped me during this event make this event possible our sponsors you know everyone including rachel who was there its really id also like to say umm its truly different for people who were there with eyes at the even who were there physically on the ground vs people on the internet judging by stream and TL posts and umm there's always two sides to the story. ....something something...The truth will come out"
Sorry for the shit transcription the guy talks all over the place and my RSI is playing up like crazy today ^^ Any grammatical errors are just the way he speaks lol I actually cleaned up some of it.
Not many answers xD
Thanks for the transcription!
Honestly based one what I read, he's more an idiot than a scumbag. I think there's a good chance he really did just underbudget by a lot (still wrong, still got to pay) and didn't actually run off with anything.
On November 17 2011 12:43 greatZERG wrote: Final words (sorry was mistaken)
"Umm hi everyone. I i just like to say in organizing this even I only had the best intentions in mind. We made mistakes, I made mistakes I learned from that thats what important, we're working to resolve all the issues that are happening at this time. I'd appreciate it if you give support to the crew who helped me during this event make this event possible our sponsors you know everyone including rachel who was there its really id also like to say umm its truly different for people who were there with eyes at the even who were there physically on the ground vs people on the internet judging by stream and TL posts and umm there's always two sides to the story. ....something something...The truth will come out"
Sorry for the shit transcription the guy talks all over the place and my RSI is playing up like crazy today ^^ Any grammatical errors are just the way he speaks lol I actually cleaned up some of it.
Not many answers xD
Thanks for typing out the script, lol. It looks accurate except you need "umm..uh" about every three words.
On November 17 2011 12:46 Sein wrote: Please get Slasher to grill this guy. I'm sorry, Seltzer, but you were way too nice throughout the whole thing and let him just BS his way out of every question without actually answering any of it.
There's two sides to this. If anyone starts 'grilling' him he seems the kind of person to start giving either very short, terse answers and claiming legal technicalities or would simply end the interview. The way that Rachel did it is she gave him just enough rope to let him hang himself with it. His lack of answers and the way he conducted himself spoke just as loudly as argumentatively defending himself may have,
I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
1. The internet provided wasn't a contractual deal, just some agreement between "friends of friends" lolwut 2. AZK didn't spend money to fly their team over to IPL 3 3. There was an cable on the floor that got pulled 4. He didn't have "enough money" when asked about having a detailed budget for the event
Just about everything else he said can be summed up in three words "pot of issues"
Happy to do it while I procrastinate from study. I did have to remove the umms and uhhhs as much as I could but yes, I had umm on my clipboard by about the 3 minute mark
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys.
Um...I think YOU need to chill out.
People are mad because he hasn't been held responsible for ANYTHING yet. Never being allowed to organize or participate is NOT enough. "Hey you stole 12k - just don't do it again OK?!"
edit: Maybe not "stole" per se, but at least blundered away - he's got to be liable for it right?
On November 17 2011 12:50 rengarr wrote: So basically the only thing he confirmed was
1. The internet provided wasn't a contractual deal, just some agreement between "friends of friends" lolwut 2. AZK didn't spend money to fly their team over to IPL 3 3. There was an cable on the floor that got pulled 4. He didn't have "enough money" when asked about having a detailed budget for the event
Just about everything else he said can be summed up in three words "pot of issues"
To clarify #3 the cable was not pulled, that's a 'plug it back in' problem. He said that the cable being stepped on was what caused the lag problems.
On November 17 2011 12:46 HitMonkie wrote: Also guys, 12k is just for the Amanda Incident. With all the Debt added up.
Gus Owes over $23,000, So quite alot more.
How the hell people can overspend that much money without realizing? This just blows my mind.
He absolutely realized it, and he got others to spend it, and I bet he himself does not owe anyone anything, and there are no contracts. So for anyone saying he is "more an idiot than a scumbag", I guess I disagree, and suspect he knew exactly what he was doing.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys.
Um...I think YOU need to chill out.
People are mad because he hasn't been held responsible for ANYTHING yet. Never being allowed to organize or participate is NOT enough. "Hey you stole 12k - just don't do it again OK?!"
I don't think you even read my post =/
I said he should have legal repercussions. He should be forced to pay back the money he owes, and then some for the mental damage or whatever else the lawyers want to go at him for. Run him dry for his money for all I care.
However, the way the community is treating him is just hilarious, at best. They're a lynch mob, of sorts. Any time he does anything at all, or his name is dropped in any context whatsoever, it instantly turns into a "laughing at how bad Gus is and making fun of him" thread and mocking him in every conceivable fashion over him trying to cover his ass. Which I don't blame him for trying to cover his ass, what the fuck else can he do in this situation? He's panicking, and rightfully so.
Again, and I will say this until my tongue falls out (or my fingers fall off, was trying to make a metaphor ), he deserves every legal punishment possible and then some for what he did. He fucked a lot of people over.
However, people are treating this guy worse than the fucking guy in the Penn State scandal. I see people jeering for this guys' persecution more than when we killed Osama Bin Laden. It's stupid.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
What I don't get is how come the main planner of the event doesn't have all the paperwork and all the accounting of the funds and why he needs more time to "collect" the documentation. I'd have to say if you need this much time, you are either cooking the books or erasing your tracks on responsibility for certain items/stuff.
"We overspent." (how the hell do you overspend that much and expect it to be miraculously paid off?) - The only rationale I could think of was he was expecting more sponsors to come in after he committed all the things he needed to make some of the wheels turn for the event.
"If we were on schedule... Honslaught would've..." - This implies you had a schedule but I pretty much remember people on the ground saying there was no plan for the event that was detailed for the ground crew like who was to be on in certain time slots, who needed to be on stage etc. Also, you have to have a lead time to make things work in this type of event. You don't just setup in the middle of the night for a next day event of this "caliber" and hope for the best.
"No one in the Phils has done an event of this magnitude..." I think the event size itself wasn't the issue, you just needed to add in a stream that was good for the international community and it's pretty much the same with PGF by Mineski. So you fucked up coz you were stupid and couldn't really do it.
On November 17 2011 12:50 rengarr wrote: So basically the only thing he confirmed was
1. The internet provided wasn't a contractual deal, just some agreement between "friends of friends" lolwut 2. AZK didn't spend money to fly their team over to IPL 3 3. There was an cable on the floor that got pulled 4. He didn't have "enough money" when asked about having a detailed budget for the event
Just about everything else he said can be summed up in three words "pot of issues"
IPL sponsored 7000$ upfront, 3500$ went into prizes, I assume the rest went into renting the venue and such.
I gotta wonder what other sponsorshipdeals he got, and where the money all go. "Didnt have enough money" is really not an answer when you dont account for how you use the money you got.
On November 17 2011 12:50 rengarr wrote: So basically the only thing he confirmed was
1. The internet provided wasn't a contractual deal, just some agreement between "friends of friends" lolwut 2. AZK didn't spend money to fly their team over to IPL 3 3. There was an cable on the floor that got pulled 4. He didn't have "enough money" when asked about having a detailed budget for the event
Just about everything else he said can be summed up in three words "pot of issues"
Sounds like a Con-Artist to me.
I haven't seen it yet since i was at work. Hopefully there will be a VOD uploaded or something
But something tells me from your brief summary that there is not a Chance in Hell we are going to get the God Damned Truth about this Situation and one of the most damning piece of Evidence against Gus the Criminal and that is the part where he bribed other players etc and denied them flights.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
For the people hating on Rachel / CSN for the interview, she did fine. Gus had more than enough opportunities to come clean during that show. He chose not to. If you grilled him he'd either just hang up the call or give the same responses.
On November 17 2011 12:50 rengarr wrote: So basically the only thing he confirmed was
1. The internet provided wasn't a contractual deal, just some agreement between "friends of friends" lolwut 2. AZK didn't spend money to fly their team over to IPL 3 3. There was an cable on the floor that got pulled 4. He didn't have "enough money" when asked about having a detailed budget for the event
Just about everything else he said can be summed up in three words "pot of issues"
IPL sponsored 7000$ upfront, 3500$ went into prizes, I assume the rest went into renting the venue and such.
I gotta wonder what other sponsorshipdeals he got, and where the money all go. "Didnt have enough money" is really not an answer when you dont account for how you use the money you got.
Well considering just about every response from him was "some issues" "technical issues" "issues", "not enough money" was actually a little less vague.
Seriously you could actually do a drinking game on this interview, watch it do a shot everytime Gus says the word issues.
Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Oh just remember, "And.... we still don't hear from Team AZK who are also party to the PPSL fiasco." Or wait, is Gus just Team AZK so it enough that he does all the statements for the whole team?
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
On November 17 2011 13:02 Bagration wrote: Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Still, thanks for all of the work you put in.
To quote Rachel from her Twitter: Sorry if some of you thought I was a little soft on Gus, but it was kid gloves or no interview at all. VoD's up on YouTube.
All these people claiming Rachel did an inadequate job think they know how to conduct interviews.
You aren't supposed to ask accusatory questions directly or ask questions that imply guilt. All you are supposed to do is present the facts, present what is known, and ask for an explanation of what happened. Blaming him with questions isn't going to get an answer, and in fact will only have given him a better chance to defend himself.
I think she did a great job staying level headed and mostly impartial.
On November 17 2011 13:02 pdd wrote: Well based on reading the transcripts on the thread, I think Gus just basically confirmed what we knew all along.
He's awfully incompetent when organizing events. And with that he just announced to the world that he doesn't belong in esports.
So let's lynch him?
I mean, honestly, what else is there to say to this? He's terrible at it. He tried and failed.
Let's get Amanda's money back and just move on.
Simple answer my friend, money is lost and he can't even account for it. Make him accountable, this is what this whole thing is about. Tbh, the amanda thing was a mistake. As Chill said, it sets a bad precedent. And, and this is a big WHAT IF, the whole thing is a scam, a la Keyser Soze. Just saying. That's why we have to get to the very bottom of this, and hit Gus "Criminal" Ledesma really hard.
On November 17 2011 13:09 lichter wrote: All these people claiming Rachel did an inadequate job think they know how to conduct interviews.
You aren't supposed to ask accusatory questions directly or ask questions that imply guilt. All you are supposed to do is present the facts, present what is known, and ask for an explanation of what happened. Blaming him with questions isn't going to get an answer, and in fact will only have given him a better chance to defend himself.
I think she did a great job staying level headed and mostly impartial.
Seriously guys learn2interview
Except for the Part were Gus didn't relay any Actual Factoids himself he basically just said he screwed up.
I'm more inclined to believe he made off with a lot of money doing this tournament. At the Expense of the Communities Donations
After he bribed players and Denied Qualified Players Flights
On November 17 2011 13:00 Dox wrote: For the people hating on Rachel / CSN for the interview, she did fine. Gus had more than enough opportunities to come clean during that show. He chose not to. If you grilled him he'd either just hang up the call or give the same responses.
Thank you, that is a valid point. Just to clear up, I certainly wasn't "hating" on Rachel or CSN with my comment about how Rachel was way too nice on him.
On November 17 2011 13:02 pdd wrote: Well based on reading the transcripts on the thread, I think Gus just basically confirmed what we knew all along.
He's awfully incompetent when organizing events. And with that he just announced to the world that he doesn't belong in esports.
So let's lynch him?
I mean, honestly, what else is there to say to this? He's terrible at it. He tried and failed.
Let's get Amanda's money back and just move on.
Simple answer my friend, money is lost and he can't even account for it. Make him accountable, this is what this whole thing is about. Tbh, the amanda thing was a mistake. As Chill said, it sets a bad precedent. And, and this is a big WHAT IF, the whole thing is a scam, a la Keyser Soze. Just saying. That's why we have to get to the very bottom of this, and hit Gus "Criminal" Ledesma really hard.
I agree that holding him accountable (legally, if that is possible) is a must..
But insulting him on the internet (and really, most of the posts being questioned are just insults, even if true) isn't really hitting him really hard. Nor does it really help?
On November 17 2011 13:02 pdd wrote: Well based on reading the transcripts on the thread, I think Gus just basically confirmed what we knew all along.
He's awfully incompetent when organizing events. And with that he just announced to the world that he doesn't belong in esports.
So let's lynch him?
I mean, honestly, what else is there to say to this? He's terrible at it. He tried and failed.
Let's get Amanda's money back and just move on.
Simple answer my friend, money is lost and he can't even account for it. Make him accountable, this is what this whole thing is about. Tbh, the amanda thing was a mistake. As Chill said, it sets a bad precedent. And, and this is a big WHAT IF, the whole thing is a scam, a la Keyser Soze. Just saying. That's why we have to get to the very bottom of this, and hit Gus "Criminal" Ledesma really hard.
I couldn't agree with you more it makes me angry this Gus guy probably made off with alot of money from this Tournament at the Expense of the Community
On November 17 2011 13:09 lichter wrote: All these people claiming Rachel did an inadequate job think they know how to conduct interviews.
You aren't supposed to ask accusatory questions directly or ask questions that imply guilt. All you are supposed to do is present the facts, present what is known, and ask for an explanation of what happened. Blaming him with questions isn't going to get an answer, and in fact will only have given him a better chance to defend himself.
I think she did a great job staying level headed and mostly impartial.
Seriously guys learn2interview
Except for the Part were Gus didn't relay any Actual Factoids himself he basically just said he screwed up.
I'm more inclined to believe he made off with a lot of money doing this tournament. At the Expense of the Communities Donations
After he bribed players and Denied Qualified Players Flights
Well now that the questions asked didn't get the answers we wanted, we can say that maybe the questions weren't enough... but with such tame and unbiased questions that gave Gus a chance to explain, he still avoided saying anything... do you think he would have said anything had he been outright accused? And like Rachel mentioned on twitter, it was nice interview or no interview at all -_-
Not saying I am satisfied with the answers, or the interview, but I think she did a good job with what she could do. The interview fell short of expectations because of Gus, not Rachel.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
Not hating on Rachel's interview. Just that Gus really didn't answer. I know for a fact being an interviewer you should be impartial and try to get "the other side". That interview just did the same thing his letter did when he posted here.
"There were screw ups." and your logical response to his statement is THAT'S IT?!
We're playing Zerg on Shattered Temple vs a Cheesy as Fuck Terran (Gus). Thankfully we have an awesome drone (Seltzer) who is going to go scout the front of his base like a boss. Little seltzerdrone runs over to his base and wants to scout. Oh no, he's blocked his ramp with bullshit (depos and stuff). She can attack the bullshit but this will get the YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK warning for CheesyTerran and he can either get angry and throw a marine (angry bullshit) at her or lift off his CC to another base (hang up). So smart sneaky seltzerdrone doesn't tap on the depos, she waits...she waits until he switches up his rax and his factory (changing story) and then sneakysneakies down the ramp and knows when the hellions of bullshit are coming. Then she's ready with the follow up roaches (questions) and we all get a nice GG instead of an angry 11/11.
On November 17 2011 13:22 greatZERG wrote: Jeez guys think about it like starcraft.
We're playing Zerg on Shattered Temple vs a Cheesy as Fuck Terran (Gus). Thankfully we have an awesome drone (Seltzer) who is going to go scout the front of his base like a boss. Little seltzerdrone runs over to his base and wants to scout. Oh no, he's blocked his ramp with bullshit (depos and stuff). She can attack the bullshit but this will get the YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK warning for CheesyTerran and he can either get angry and throw a marine (angry bullshit) at her or lift off his CC to another base (hang up). So smart sneaky seltzerdrone doesn't tap on the depos, she waits...she waits until he switches up his rax and his factory (changing story) and then sneakysneakies down the ramp and knows when the hellions of bullshit are coming. Then she's ready with the follow up roaches (questions) and we all get a nice GG instead of an angry 11/11.
On November 17 2011 13:21 rengarr wrote: When she asked if Gus had a financial plan for the event and he replied with "not enough money"
A good follwup question would be "What caused you to go over the budget?"
Sure a being a biased interviewer isn't the way to go, but allowing vague answers to go through just is also a fault.
Yea, I really think the money was the biggest question here and what exactly happened. Gus's answers were just like "I hope people eventually forget about this, and it blows over soon". You don't need to be accusatory to ask for more detailed explanations IMO.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
You are making fair points, but I don't agree that the community reaction as a whole was kneejerk-ish or overdone. I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist. If there was a post like that I have missed somewhere, then I think we both know the internet forums well enough to ignore that small minority.
Throughout many parts of the Interview Gus is asked how did you not have enough money and he was saying something about if i had pocketed money People would have known my close-Friends etc...
That doesn't really make sense since he was the sole person in Charge of the Funds/Management of the Event.
As far as i'm concerned this whole interview was Redundant didn't answer a single thing. I still think he's a Con-Artist Liar and made off with a lot of $$$.......
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
I do agree with your sentiments, tho I think most of the posters are aware that legal repercussions are unlikely to happen. Mainly due to the amount not being substantial enough to warrant all the legal hassles and expenses. Plus I think all there remarks despite how cruel they sound is a good way to keep the topic alive, just to make sure something is done about it or at least serve as an example.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from.
Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified.
You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are.
Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public.
On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote: If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag.
I mean, this is EXACTLY my point
What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help?
Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid.
It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from.
Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified.
You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are.
Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public.
I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco.
I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that.
I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him.
P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote: If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag.
I mean, this is EXACTLY my point
What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help?
Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid.
It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice.
Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process
So pretty much he's not going to get punished for anything? The interview sounds like a joke. Nothing "insider" about it. Man, people are way too soft these days...
On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote: If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag.
I mean, this is EXACTLY my point
What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help?
Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid.
It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice.
Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process
You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people.
Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil?
Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice.
He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote: I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote: P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from.
Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified.
You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are.
Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public.
I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco.
I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that.
I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him.
P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead? You're just playing the devil's advocate here now. I don't see anything at all that's posted in this entire thread that is unjustified. Maybe slightly hyperbolic, but not anymore so than your own post.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from.
Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified.
You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are.
Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public.
I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco.
I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that.
I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him.
P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead?
You didn't even read my post, and posts before that, have you?
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist.
I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.
I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic.
It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye.
With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation.
If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back.
Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from.
Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified.
You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are.
Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public.
I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco.
I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that.
I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him.
P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead?
You didn't even read my post, and posts before that, have you?
I read everything you posted and it seems more and more like you're just playing the intellectual troll/devil's advocate here. Also, disagree 99% with everything you said.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature.
Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end".
No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all.
However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you.
Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all.
However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation.
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote: If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag.
I mean, this is EXACTLY my point
What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help?
Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid.
It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice.
Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process
You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people.
Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil?
Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice.
He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
"Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice."
Bad Analogy again
I never said anything about murder. Also when he bribes players and denies players flights to Tournaments it's not just a money issue that's a Con-Artist Scamming Manipulating Issue. Where Gus is only working for himself and his Team AZK and its causing Conflicts of Interests.(Denying 5 Players Flights)
Steals 12,000 + Money from Community (Community has to end up paying for a lot of that money) Yep Gus Deserves to be treated like an Angel /end Sarcasm
We shouldn't berate Gus(sarcasm) we should leave him alone and him and AZKziek will party in the Bahamas. With all the Stolen Tournament Money.
On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote: I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote: P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"
To which I respond: It is not.
The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did.
However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's not the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it.
As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote: If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag.
I mean, this is EXACTLY my point
What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help?
Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid.
It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice.
Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process
You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people.
Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil?
Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice.
He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
I don't think that is how you should look at.
Granted some people are taking it to the extreme like looking for him in Manila and lynching him or what not. I don't agree with that and just choose to overlook it. But I don't think the majority are like that. Granted some have not chosen their words carefully, but that is because of emotion and you just to take out the essense of it in that these people, including me, love esport in general. And to find how this is damaging to that which we love is tantamount to people being enraged to certain varying degrees which no one can completely control.
I would appreciate it if we look at things rationally. I really don't think he robbed or hid any money away from those it was supposed to be allocated for. I do however believe that he was just plain stupid, incapable of running this event and was just after the limelight/prestige. He put himself out there without the credentials, knowledge or even experience to handle the type of event that was supposed to be PPSL. And he blatantly repeats that no one has ever attempted that scale of an event in the Philippines which is pretty laughable since PGF happened and it wasn't that big of a fiasco. Granted the stream was up to 480p but no where near as low quality as PPSL of like 360p or 240p. Sad really.
He was irresponsible (not having contracts and not having all the documentation being the manager) and a glory hound.
On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote: I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote: P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"
To which I respond: It is not.
The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did.
However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it.
As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
Of course it's not "helping" the situation. But how is that any different from two people sitting on a bus talking about, say, a bad movie. Other than informing the people around them how bad a movie is, how are they helping the situation?
"Dude this movie sucks" "Yeah it totally sucks ass" "Remember that scene where [can't remember this part]? Fucking bad" "That guy should just quit acting" "Yeah he's horrible"
(Actual conversation btw, although transcribed from memory)
Yeah totally not helping. This is a forum. Instead of 2 people on the bus you have thousands of people posting on their spare time. If this was a trial, then maybe all the "useless clutter" should be cut away. But as long as the mods don't have a problem with it then sure.
Speaking of which, what exactly are you doing? Who do you think you're trying to convince with those long winded posts of yours? Why don't you just PM a mod and tell them the situation isn't helping and have them lock the topic, warn users, or delete posts? That should be something constructive right? Instead of rambling about people rambling?
What Frusciante is saying, in a nutshell (plus some creative license to add some stuff): 1. Gus is terrible, he should be held liable / go to jail / pay up 2. Gus is terrible, but we don't have to constantly insult him since it doesn't help (it doesn't even make Gus feel bad, probably) 3. The reaction of some in the community is fueled entirely by hate, not by justice, there is a difference, and we as a community should be better/more mature than that 4. Solve this crime because we love Starcraft, not because we hate Gus (and stop with the name calling, bec name calling is always childish) 5. Gus should be banned for ruining esports
So do it out of love, not hate, there is a difference.
On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote: I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote: P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"
To which I respond: It is not.
The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did.
However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it.
As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
Of course it's not "helping" the situation. But how is that any different from two people sitting on a bus talking about, say, a bad movie. Other than informing the people around them how bad a movie is, how are they helping the situation?
"Dude this movie sucks" "Yeah it totally sucks ass" "Remember that scene where [can't remember this part]? Fucking bad" "That guy should just quit acting" "Yeah he's horrible"
(Actual conversation btw, although transcribed from memory)
Yeah totally not helping. This is a forum. Instead of 2 people on the bus you have thousands of people posting on their spare time. If this was a trial, then maybe all the "useless clutter" should be cut away. But as long as the mods don't have a problem with it then sure.
Speaking of which, what exactly are you doing? Who do you think you're trying to convince with those long winded posts of yours? Why don't you just PM a mod and tell them the situation isn't helping and have them lock the topic, warn users, or delete posts? That should be something constructive right? Instead of rambling about people rambling?
I just keep getting sucked in before I turn off my computer (you people need to stop replying so fast), so I'll respond to this and go take out my contacts so I'm not tempted or anything further!
I am doing this before I feel the best method to stopping this is education, not the mods putting red text under a few peoples names and putting some captions going "Be excellent!" and shit. When people understand why what they are doing is wrong, and how to properly express their frustration with this situation in a mature manner, that is better, to me, than the mod banning a few 100 post idiots going "LOL FUK THIS GUY HE SUKS DIK XD"
If someone feels strongly about what i say or their own ideas on the matter, then by all means post it to a Mod. I however, can not out of principle.
Finally, this:
On November 17 2011 14:02 lichter wrote: Seriously guys.
What Frusciante is saying, in a nutshell (plus some creative license to add some stuff): 1. Gus is terrible, he should be held liable / go to jail / pay up 2. Gus is terrible, but we don't have to constantly insult him since it doesn't help (it doesn't even make Gus feel bad, probably) 3. The reaction of some in the community is fueled entirely by hate, not by justice, there is a difference, and we as a community should be better/more mature than that 4. Solve this crime because we love Starcraft, not because we hate Gus (and stop with the name calling, bec name calling is always childish) 5. Gus should be banned for ruining esports
So do it out of love, not hate, there is a difference.
Now it's time to go listen to some Bela Fleck while I sip on a pipe because I'm just so damn pretentious.
On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote: I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing.
Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote: P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"
To which I respond: It is not.
The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did.
However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's not the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it.
As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
So to protect our community's integrity we have to run the risk of letting this guy go without punishment.
Its a pretty hard choice Ill admit. Its definitely much easier to just be angry. Dunno man. Though I consider myself to be very logical/rational, Im a pretty vindictive person so even though I see your point its pretty tough for me to let any asshole go unscathed.
Frusciante, it's not worth arguing with people so hellbent on harassment and hatred. Seriously if anyone is arguing with your posts, then they're just not worth arguing with.
EDIT: Also if you look through XxRadiXx's post he's probably got close to a hundred posts linking random posts related to the Gus incidents and has repeatedly called him criminal and stuff as if he's got a personal vendetta against Gus. He's someone you should just ignore.
On November 17 2011 13:02 Bagration wrote: Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Still, thanks for all of the work you put in.
To quote Rachel from her Twitter: Sorry if some of you thought I was a little soft on Gus, but it was kid gloves or no interview at all. VoD's up on YouTube.
Or no interview at all? What does that mean? So your saying he didn't want to be asked tough questions or he'd decline the interview? Sounds stupid to me and something a guilty person would say. If anything this was just a pat on his back.
"Her performance in her last movie was [insert refined way to say her acting sucks]"
Others say
"She should go quit acting and become a whore. Nah, she'll suck at that too"
I doubt people who run around saying they'll go to Gus's house and kick him in the nuts or hang him from the ceiling etc. would actually go to his, had they had the oppurtunity, and actually do that. Or the people who say that Gus should be run over by a bus (speaking of Gus run over by a bus, I'm disappointed to not see more of that, Gus and bus rhyme!) don't actually mean it.
If you're so affected by how people say things then all I can say is "welcome to the Internet"
Well for my part, I have precedence issues and do think the Amanda fundraiser (although for the good of a person) may set a bad precedent for future "willing victims".
Well for one thing, the 12k usd balance that needed to be paid, I know I asked amaduh (the account of Amanda here in TL) whether or not that 12k is solely to pay of the airline tickets or is it including the travel agency profits but I never got a reply and the event/stream thread was already closed.
Point being is the travel agency and Amanda made a business call, an irresponsible one at that. So when the community went to help them, that should've just been for the net expense of the airline tickets as it is sort of a "cutting your losses thing" so that the agency doesn't go under as was claimed in one of the posts in one thread (finding it hard to locate now). And any excess goes into paying for the balances of PPSL as intended by IPL like the 900usd TGR fronted for clive who was also a "willing victim" but didn't work for the hotel industry anyway (as far as we know).
The rest I could say were simply victims as we don't have any new facts that come to light even after the interview.
Just to add into the discussion that won't ever see the light of day until both Gus and Team AZK speaks up. I keep repeating this but although Gus is the manager of Team AZK, there are other upper echelons beside Gus. I mean that is logical, like the event planning group/committee that Team AZK should've set up for the event that was PPSL (even before it was an IPL qualifier). No official statements with facts, no seeing daylight for the issue. =)
On November 17 2011 13:02 Bagration wrote: Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Still, thanks for all of the work you put in.
To quote Rachel from her Twitter: Sorry if some of you thought I was a little soft on Gus, but it was kid gloves or no interview at all. VoD's up on YouTube.
Totally agree with Rachel on that. Rachel could have asked hard hitting questions, but she herself as the interviewer and us also can see that he's a fucking mess, a liar and was desperately trying to find ways to bullshit his way through the interview. It was clear he could just pull the plug on the interview (and claim his mic broke, like before) or she could get whatever she can get in the interview.
Whatever he said, we already knew for the most part.
Have to agree, Rachel did a good job. I think, somewhere that would be called professional, to just INTERVIEW someone, and not going on a crusade.
Dont forget, it was an interview which Gus couldve jumped out of at any times. Its not like a law-court where Gus HAD to answer every accusation.
Of course, we ended up with an interview after which we are as clueless as before, but thats not Rachels fault, but Gus. He chose to bullshit around, other than setting things straight.
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
So does anyone have proof that he pocketed the money? It sounds like they just had bad financing and it got out of control with probably bad planning. Obviously this is not an excuse for Gus, but at the same time it is vastly different than calling him an outright thief which many have been doing the past few weeks. I am glad Rachel took a neutral stance in that interview, shows a lot of class and respect. Before we go take out the pitchforks we should see what he has to say or show when the issues are resolved.
On November 17 2011 16:07 mango_destroyer wrote: So does anyone have proof that he pocketed the money? It sounds like they just had bad financing and it got out of control with probably bad planning. Obviously this is not an excuse for Gus, but at the same time it is vastly different than calling him an outright thief which many have been doing the past few weeks. I am glad Rachel took a neutral stance in that interview, shows a lot of class and respect. Before we go take out the pitchforks we should see what he has to say or show when the issues are resolved.
Thats the problem. Its not "when", but rather "if" the issues get resolved. Theres been so many accounts of Gus deceiving people and hiding away when shit hits the fan that its impossible to tell whether or not hell take responsibility for anything at all
Edit: Looks like its more definitive than I was suggesting:
On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote: I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE"
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way.
"I never got a chance to explain my side of the story"
This has got to be the biggest lie ever. He quotes Voltaire in a previous sentence (which already made me cringe), then spews this shit right after. I just had to close the VOD after that. Everyone has been waiting for his side of the story right from day 1 of the event. Everyone has been looking for him: Slasher asked him to come on his show, AZK people were trying to find him, people here in TL have been demanding answers since the beginning.
Oh my god, he was less prepared for that interview than Sanduski. Was there a single sentence he did not stumble over? No, really, was there? No real answers given.. and there's been enough time since the end of the event to prepare at least a little bit... Wow... just wow..... You're right, Diamond, that was painful.
She just asked him to introduce him self... then he says, oh you know me. Then rants how he wants to explain himself. What if people didnt know what the hell he was talking about.
Seltzer good at keeping a good interviewer straight face.
People were 'judging' Gus by the fact the tournament was organized by Gus....several people who worked there said they could never get a hold of him....multiple people were put on the hook for thousands of dollars because he didn't secure finances before spending the money. He could of gotten Amanda put in jail for the 12 grand he put her on the hook for.
To top that all off the tournament ran terribly because he clearly didn't research and secure what he needed to support 32 machines plus a stream. Some standard venue internet at I think he said 10 up and 10 down isn't going to cut it. Just to play lag free for 1 person you need somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 500 kbs up, to support a stream at a watchable 720 you'd need to have around 1.5 to 2mbs of upload. Do the math and it's pretty clear there was going to be massive issues come tournament time without a boost.
Then you can get into the nitty gritty of the allegations seeding changes so AZK wouldn't team kill in round 1 etc....also that some of the qualifiers were supposedly not very well publicized and as a result a lot of players got left out. Then the whole problem with players not getting support to get to the tournament or not being allowed.
So many things went horribly bad that it's 100% certain this event was put together poorly and as a result of his lack of effort a lot of good people got put on the hook. If this were medieval times he'd be in a stockade, lynched, or beheaded...he's frankly lucky were not.
So our simple recourse is to never let this guy ever take part in esports and our community ever again by not supporting his ventures. I don't know if he owns or just manages AZK, but if I was one of their players i'd be looking for the first exit to separate myself from him.
On November 19 2011 01:36 BrodiaQ wrote: So after listening to Gus' interview I'm not sure if he said anything. Can if I'm wrong could someone clarify it for me?
He literally said nothing of clarity in the Interview it was just a lot of Uhh's and making excuses for things that went 'wrong'.
He never really explained where and how he mis-managed/pocketed the money and he never had an excuse as to why he was absent for a large portion of the Tournament he was supposed to be running.
He was probably too busy depositing the Money he'd siphoned/pilfered out of the Tournament to his Bank Account.(and counting on the Community Charity Drive to pay his Bills)
He also never addressed numerous accusations of Bracket rigging and Bribing Players/Cancelling Players Flights.
On November 19 2011 01:36 BrodiaQ wrote: So after listening to Gus' interview I'm not sure if he said anything. Can if I'm wrong could someone clarify it for me?
He literally said nothing of clarity in the Interview it was just a lot of Uhh's and making excuses for things that went 'wrong'.
He never really explained where and how he mis-managed/pocketed the money and he never had an excuse as to why he was absent for a large portion of the Tournament he was supposed to be running.
He was probably too busy depositing the Money he'd siphoned/pilfered out of the Tournament to his Bank Account.(and counting on the Community Charity Drive to pay his Bills)
He also never addressed numerous accusations of Bracket rigging and Bribing Players/Cancelling Players Flights.
Funny thing in the interview he said he arrived on the touney venue at 12pm. He's clock must be really late as people on the floor said he arrived at 3pm and not 12pm on the 1st day of his event. He also made an excuse that he couldn't sleep the night before day 1 of the event. Funny, I recall the night before he was getting wasted with "tastosis" as per his tweet.
Covering a mistake with a lie is probably not the best course of action.
I still think he didn't pocket but really mismanaged. Going for flashy execution without actually focusing on the most important parts like bandwidth allocation for the ISP, 2 separate lines (1 for stream, 1 for players), reserving the venue a whole day earlier to allow for checking of everything instead of hoping everything worked well on the day itself after setup the night before and etc. Stuff that he should've done are at least would have done properly if he cared to ask the Mineski guys who did the PGF. But he keeps looking down on Mineski's event and PPSL ended up being the "worst" event of that caliber (karma is the best word for his mockery of PGF)
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