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On November 17 2011 13:48 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:43 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote:
If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag. I mean, this is EXACTLY my point What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help? Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid. It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice. Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process
You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people.
Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil?
Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice.
He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
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On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not. Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them.
I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though.
With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"?
Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions.
If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing?
On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. 
Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
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On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:41 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:32 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:28 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 13:18 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:08 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:59 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 12:56 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote:
I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE" The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him. Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way. It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature. Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end". No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all. However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you. Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all. However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation. I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist. I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic. It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye. With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation. If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back. Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from. Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified. You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are. Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public. I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco. I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that. I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him. P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that.
Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead? You're just playing the devil's advocate here now. I don't see anything at all that's posted in this entire thread that is unjustified. Maybe slightly hyperbolic, but not anymore so than your own post.
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On November 17 2011 13:52 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:41 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:32 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:28 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 13:18 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:08 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:59 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 12:56 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote:
I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE" The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him. Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way. It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature. Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end". No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all. However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you. Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all. However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation. I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist. I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic. It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye. With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation. If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back. Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from. Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified. You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are. Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public. I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco. I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that. I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him. P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead?
You didn't even read my post, and posts before that, have you?
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On November 17 2011 13:53 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:52 teamsolid wrote:On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:41 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:32 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:28 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 13:18 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:08 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:59 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 12:56 Sein wrote:
[quote]
The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him.
Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way. It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature. Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end". No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all. However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you. Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all. However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation. I don't think anyone treated him worse than they would the Penn State rapist. I barely skimmed over most of the posts in the original thread(s), and there were people in there treating him like the second damn coming of Satan. I mean, people honestly acting like he forfeited his right to life and any form of privacy or respect because of this.I think of those people less than I do Gus. That's just straight up pathetic. It only makes us, as a growing community, look even worse if this is how we handle problems. As if we are little children. I think Gus is trash as much as the next guy and should have any right to do future events, at least hosting until he pulls his shit together. However, think about it. Does he REALLY deserve this kind of harassment? I mean, imagine it. Imagine being some guy who fucked up and suddenly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly at your throat screaming at you. Calling you every profanity, insulting you in every possible way, attacking your twitter, facebook, and every other personal account you have. Imagine losing all forms of privacy and respect from almost everyone you know in the blink of an eye. With that in mind, tell me with a straight face you would act better than he is right now. And when I say "you", I mean everyone in this thread. Everyone who is laughing at him for how is handling this situation. If anything you should all be pressuring IPL to get the money back. Way to respond to his criticism of your hyperbolic analogy with an even more hyperbolic (and utterly ridiculous) analogy. If youre gonna make blanket comparisons like that, you have to AT LEAST post several quotes as to where you got those comparisons from. Also, "Little children"?...sigh. You have a way too simplistic view on the whole thing. You bundle all of these emotional outbursts into one category and generalize everyone as being "childish". Youre trying to act like the grown up in the room but youre really just fostering weakness and leniency on someone who deserves no leniency whatsoever. Read up on everything hes done, read up on his "responses" to the inquiries. The anger is justified. You call the angry people there immature for their kneejerk reactions. Your uninformed generalizations are no less kneejerk than theirs are. Edit: oh and there is no "Right" to respect. You earn your damn respect, no one starts out with a right to it. As for his "right" for privacy, he did forfeit it when he very publicly let the public's money disappear....in public. I've been reading almost everything from the very beginning of this entire fiasco. I don't even need to post quotes. Just go through the hundreds of pages of threads where people are just egging on this guy. It accomplishes nothing other than looking immature. I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course. Not by a long shot. However, a lot (if not a large majority) are acting like that. I do respect those whom are handling this maturely. If you want to think he is a lying, cheating, scumbag who deserves to go to hell for what he did or whatever -- by all means. You are entitled to that opinion of this man. However, the post content of every thread or post about this man does not need to be about you spewing your utter disdain for this man. We get it, people don't like him. So let's get to FIXING it instead of just sitting here insulting him and circle jerking about how much we despise him. P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Wait, the mature thing is to let Gus off the hook at go after IPL instead? You didn't even read my post, and posts before that, have you?
I read everything you posted and it seems more and more like you're just playing the intellectual troll/devil's advocate here. Also, disagree 99% with everything you said.
Quoting yourself:
On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:18 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:08 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:59 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 12:56 Sein wrote:On November 17 2011 12:49 Fruscainte wrote:
I know this guy is a total douchebag, asshole, and scum of the earth in every possible way. However, what do you hope to accomplish in this? Mindlessly berating him every single chance you get like a fucking lynch mob? Yes, he deserves to get some damn time for what he did and be barred from ever organizing anything ever other than his own birthday party. However, come the fuck on. It's not like he murdered 20 children, he was just stupid and fucked some people over that really didn't deserve it. He doesn't need to be crucified 24/7.
Perhaps if people didn't hop all over his ass every chance they could get, he wouldn't be a stuttering mess. You would be freaking out just like him if hundreds of thousands of people were at your throat at all times of the day no matter what and you just lost all respect from anyone and everyone in the field that you presumably love.
Like I said, he needs to have legal repercussions for what he did and have punishment from the community in the form of never being allowed to organize, or even participate in events ever again, or at least for a VERY damn long time. However, the way that this and every other community is treating him like he's freaking Osama Bin Laden and wanting to hang his decapitated body from high above and march him through the city for his evil deeds is just sad.
Basically, chill the hell out guys. This partially out of basic common sense, and partially out of I'm tired of seeing this shit all the time damn time when it always dissolves into the same thread every single time -- "LOL GUS IS SO BAD LOOK AT HIM TRYING TO COVER HIS ASS LIKE A LITTLE BITCH XD LETS LAUGH AT HIM SOME MORE" The thing is, IGN already said that they will not pursue legal repercussions and Amanda doesn't seem to have any way of making Gus take legal responsibilities either. It's frustrating and it's understandable that the community is flaming him. Nobody wants him decapitated and nobody thinks he murdered 20 children, by the way. It's not the goal of the community that's wrong. It's the way that they are handling it that's pathetically immature. Specifically how would you like the community to handle this then? People here care a lot about how the eSports scene is developing and as we are all humans, emotions will be involved to different degrees. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to say "Ok, so he should face legal repercussions. The end". No, I don't expect that kind of passivity at all. However, what I would like to see is a bit of a step down from treating him worse than the Penn State rapist when I juxtapose the threads for each of them. I mean, it's just silly. I don't know another way to put it, honestly. It's just childish, silly, and rather impetuous to just kneejerk like this into constant berating over something that doesn't even affect you. Is it wrong to be angry? No. Is it wrong to want answers and justice? Not at all. However, you can demand those without acting like a lynch mob. Screaming at him like bloody maniacs only makes him recluse more and more into his little shell and try to find more answers to wiggle himself out of the situation. I disagree completely with you. "Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"? No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not.
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On November 17 2011 13:51 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:48 XRaDiiX wrote:On November 17 2011 13:43 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote:
If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag. I mean, this is EXACTLY my point What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help? Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid. It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice. Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people. Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil? Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice. He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
"Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice."
Bad Analogy again
I never said anything about murder. Also when he bribes players and denies players flights to Tournaments it's not just a money issue that's a Con-Artist Scamming Manipulating Issue. Where Gus is only working for himself and his Team AZK and its causing Conflicts of Interests.(Denying 5 Players Flights)
Steals 12,000 + Money from Community (Community has to end up paying for a lot of that money) Yep Gus Deserves to be treated like an Angel /end Sarcasm
We shouldn't berate Gus(sarcasm) we should leave him alone and him and AZKziek will party in the Bahamas. With all the Stolen Tournament Money.
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On November 17 2011 13:51 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not. Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them. I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though. With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"? Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions. If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing? Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone
The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"
To which I respond: It is not.
The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did.
However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's not the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it.
As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2011 13:51 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:48 XRaDiiX wrote:On November 17 2011 13:43 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:39 XRaDiiX wrote:
If anything Gus is a Con-Artist, Thief , InCompetent, Lying, Bribing, Manipulating, Scum Bag. I mean, this is EXACTLY my point What does this accomplish? What does this contribute? How does this help? Repeating this ad nauseum in every thread, and derivations of this from hundreds of different people accomplishes NOTHING. You literally are just screaming children kicking at the door, whilst accomplishing none of these honorable goals you have. I am not trying to say I have all the answers or something, I'm just saying, the way that all this is being approached by the community is just....stupid. It seems the community wants to see him release a video of him crying his eyes out and apologizing than they want actual closure on the issue of paying back Amanda. It seems like they just want to see him suffer more than anything. Not get justice. Paying the Consequences for the Criminal Actions he committed is justice; being berated by the community is part of the process You're right. Let's just take anyone who ever steals anything from anyone through the streets of the respective community they stole from and have people throw rotten fruit at them and call them profanities. I mean, some people steal a LOT more than $12-13k from people. Oh man, that has me thinking. What do we do if someone kills someone or something? Oh no, I'm not comparing murder to what Gus has done. However, if we are permitted to treat him with such a reaction to stealing this money -- what do we do when one does something actually dastardly evil? Sarcasm aside, that's a very barbaric way of looking at justice. He should pay back the money, and then some for all this other crap. He should be banned from ANYTHING Starcraft related for basically the rest of his life. He should be ostracized by the community completely (officially). However, giving him all this crap constantly and claiming it's "part of the process" is silly.
I don't think that is how you should look at.
Granted some people are taking it to the extreme like looking for him in Manila and lynching him or what not. I don't agree with that and just choose to overlook it. But I don't think the majority are like that. Granted some have not chosen their words carefully, but that is because of emotion and you just to take out the essense of it in that these people, including me, love esport in general. And to find how this is damaging to that which we love is tantamount to people being enraged to certain varying degrees which no one can completely control.
I would appreciate it if we look at things rationally. I really don't think he robbed or hid any money away from those it was supposed to be allocated for. I do however believe that he was just plain stupid, incapable of running this event and was just after the limelight/prestige. He put himself out there without the credentials, knowledge or even experience to handle the type of event that was supposed to be PPSL. And he blatantly repeats that no one has ever attempted that scale of an event in the Philippines which is pretty laughable since PGF happened and it wasn't that big of a fiasco. Granted the stream was up to 480p but no where near as low quality as PPSL of like 360p or 240p. Sad really.
He was irresponsible (not having contracts and not having all the documentation being the manager) and a glory hound.
I think that is pretty simple enough to put it.
PEACE!
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On November 17 2011 13:59 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:51 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not. Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them. I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though. With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"? Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions. If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing? On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"To which I respond: It is not. The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did. However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it. As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
Of course it's not "helping" the situation. But how is that any different from two people sitting on a bus talking about, say, a bad movie. Other than informing the people around them how bad a movie is, how are they helping the situation?
"Dude this movie sucks"
"Yeah it totally sucks ass"
"Remember that scene where [can't remember this part]? Fucking bad"
"That guy should just quit acting"
"Yeah he's horrible"
(Actual conversation btw, although transcribed from memory)
Yeah totally not helping. This is a forum. Instead of 2 people on the bus you have thousands of people posting on their spare time. If this was a trial, then maybe all the "useless clutter" should be cut away. But as long as the mods don't have a problem with it then sure.
Speaking of which, what exactly are you doing? Who do you think you're trying to convince with those long winded posts of yours? Why don't you just PM a mod and tell them the situation isn't helping and have them lock the topic, warn users, or delete posts? That should be something constructive right? Instead of rambling about people rambling?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Seriously guys.
What Frusciante is saying, in a nutshell (plus some creative license to add some stuff):
1. Gus is terrible, he should be held liable / go to jail / pay up
2. Gus is terrible, but we don't have to constantly insult him since it doesn't help (it doesn't even make Gus feel bad, probably)
3. The reaction of some in the community is fueled entirely by hate, not by justice, there is a difference, and we as a community should be better/more mature than that
4. Solve this crime because we love Starcraft, not because we hate Gus (and stop with the name calling, bec name calling is always childish)
5. Gus should be banned for ruining esports
So do it out of love, not hate, there is a difference.
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On November 17 2011 14:01 rengarr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:59 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:51 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not. Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them. I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though. With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"? Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions. If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing? On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"To which I respond: It is not. The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did. However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it. As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy. Of course it's not "helping" the situation. But how is that any different from two people sitting on a bus talking about, say, a bad movie. Other than informing the people around them how bad a movie is, how are they helping the situation? "Dude this movie sucks" "Yeah it totally sucks ass" "Remember that scene where [can't remember this part]? Fucking bad" "That guy should just quit acting" "Yeah he's horrible" (Actual conversation btw, although transcribed from memory) Yeah totally not helping. This is a forum. Instead of 2 people on the bus you have thousands of people posting on their spare time. If this was a trial, then maybe all the "useless clutter" should be cut away. But as long as the mods don't have a problem with it then sure. Speaking of which, what exactly are you doing? Who do you think you're trying to convince with those long winded posts of yours? Why don't you just PM a mod and tell them the situation isn't helping and have them lock the topic, warn users, or delete posts? That should be something constructive right? Instead of rambling about people rambling?
I just keep getting sucked in before I turn off my computer (you people need to stop replying so fast), so I'll respond to this and go take out my contacts so I'm not tempted or anything further!
I am doing this before I feel the best method to stopping this is education, not the mods putting red text under a few peoples names and putting some captions going "Be excellent!" and shit. When people understand why what they are doing is wrong, and how to properly express their frustration with this situation in a mature manner, that is better, to me, than the mod banning a few 100 post idiots going "LOL FUK THIS GUY HE SUKS DIK XD"
If someone feels strongly about what i say or their own ideas on the matter, then by all means post it to a Mod. I however, can not out of principle.
Finally, this:
On November 17 2011 14:02 lichter wrote:
Seriously guys.
What Frusciante is saying, in a nutshell (plus some creative license to add some stuff):
1. Gus is terrible, he should be held liable / go to jail / pay up
2. Gus is terrible, but we don't have to constantly insult him since it doesn't help (it doesn't even make Gus feel bad, probably)
3. The reaction of some in the community is fueled entirely by hate, not by justice, there is a difference, and we as a community should be better/more mature than that
4. Solve this crime because we love Starcraft, not because we hate Gus (and stop with the name calling, bec name calling is always childish)
5. Gus should be banned for ruining esports
So do it out of love, not hate, there is a difference.
Now it's time to go listen to some Bela Fleck while I sip on a pipe because I'm just so damn pretentious.
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On November 17 2011 13:59 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:51 Supamang wrote:On November 17 2011 13:40 Fruscainte wrote:On November 17 2011 13:37 Supamang wrote:
I disagree completely with you.
"Screaming at him like bloody maniacs" is a form of punishment in and of itself. Chances of getting the money back or getting straight answers or getting a half-decent apology seem slim to none at this point. If people just sat back and didnt express outrage at this situation, you really think Gus would come out of "his little shell"?
No fucking way. The best possible situation for Gus is for everyone in the community to act like you want them to: to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about the whole thing. He wont say shit, people who talk about it, eventually the whole thing will blow over. Maybe some other fool will fall into his trap and give out money for an event that he wont ever see again. If we continue to be outraged, this ensures that people trying to hold a SEA SC2 event will know about Gus and this entire debacle. If we stop being outraged, Gus gets away with the whole thing. Get outraged at the people who have the ability to get the money out of Gus (IPL, etc.) and fix all of this, but are not. Nonetheless, pressuring him is not wrong. Treating him like the coming of Satan and not giving him any chance whatsoever to do ANYTHING without constant harassment is childish and immature, and paints us all in a bad light. Honestly, what's the difference between us, and say, 4chan or something when we dissolve into the mob mentality of "Someone fucks with us, so we fuck with them en masse until they concede to our wishes like a bunch of screaming children."
There are mature ways to handle this. Throwing riots on the forums is not one of them. I dont really know how 4chan acts or what they do, or really what they are. It sounds like youre using them as an example of a raging mob though. With that assumption, Im gonna say the difference between us and them is our goals. I dont know what their goals are, but Im guessing theyre pretty "childish" or "immature" considering the context of your last posts. Most of the outraged people here either support esports and resent the fact that Gus isnt helping its growth at all OR they hear about the amount of innocent people suffering because of his greed and they want to hear him come to justice. How is being angry at this "immature"? Its like you see the volume of emotional responses here and attribute it to a small group of people. Ill give you one point, I agree that its pointless if it was just 20 people posting all of the thousands of angry posts. However, the more likely case is that its thousands of people each posting once expressing their raw emotions. If acting civil and trusting the establishment doesnt get Gus to face justice, what is the best course of action? In this case, there is no establishment and acting civil allows Gus to hide away and let the whole thing blow over without recourse. Therefore I ask you, what is your solution to the whole thing? On November 17 2011 13:47 Fruscainte wrote:P.S. I never said the anger wasn't justified. Read my posts before you respond to me, I'd like that. Sorry, youre right. Getting a little carried away with my tone The question that stuck out to me, the most was "How is being angry at this "immature"?"To which I respond: It is not. The way you are being angry at it is immature. I don't mean YOU specifically, but generally as a whole for the community. There is nothing wrong with anger. It's a very natural emotion. A very good person was hurt, the community was hurt, and people are pissed off over it. They have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. You can think that he is a con artist, thief, bastard, asshole, and anything else you may think up. You can think that he deserves no respect or human decency at all for what he did. That's all fine and dandy, you have every right to think so. In fact, even I think about half of those things about this man. I think he's pretty scum for what he did. However, manifesting this anger in a way that a child would (again, being general here -- not EVERYONE is like that since some peoples panties are getting tussled up) in the form of constant screaming, insults, berating, harassing, and every other synonym I can think of to make myself seem smarter is not only completely annoying, but, as I said, immature. It's not the end result that we want that is the problem. It's not the core issue of anger that is the problem. It is how we are expressing it. As I shut down my computer after this post to go to sleep because 7 hours of BF3/Skyrim before an exam tomorrow is probably not the most productive as I'm quickly realizing, I want to leave on this very cliche line: The ends do not justify the means. We may bring justice to this man. However, at what cost to his basic human decency and our reputation as a community. Most importantly, the precedent that is being set by this whole fiasco for future inevitable issues. Where it's being made abundantly clear that it's okay to just let mob rule take over in situations like this and go crazy.
So to protect our community's integrity we have to run the risk of letting this guy go without punishment.
Its a pretty hard choice Ill admit. Its definitely much easier to just be angry. Dunno man. Though I consider myself to be very logical/rational, Im a pretty vindictive person so even though I see your point its pretty tough for me to let any asshole go unscathed.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256973¤tpage=5#85
AZKZiek is currently on the stream chat claiming that Dox is lying without actually saying what exactly he thinks Dox is lying about.
EDIT: He's also insulting just about everyone on the stream chat.
"azkziek: that amanda thing was awesome, we got to pocket an extra 5K... bahamas here we come !"
I just thought i'd leave this here in case anyone missed it
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Frusciante, it's not worth arguing with people so hellbent on harassment and hatred. Seriously if anyone is arguing with your posts, then they're just not worth arguing with.
EDIT: Also if you look through XxRadiXx's post he's probably got close to a hundred posts linking random posts related to the Gus incidents and has repeatedly called him criminal and stuff as if he's got a personal vendetta against Gus. He's someone you should just ignore.
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On November 17 2011 13:08 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:02 Bagration wrote:
Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Still, thanks for all of the work you put in. To quote Rachel from her Twitter: Sorry if some of you thought I was a little soft on Gus, but it was kid gloves or no interview at all. VoD's up on YouTube.
Or no interview at all? What does that mean? So your saying he didn't want to be asked tough questions or he'd decline the interview?
Sounds stupid to me and something a guilty person would say.
If anything this was just a pat on his back.
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Eh, some people say
"Her performance in her last movie was [insert refined way to say her acting sucks]"
Others say
"She should go quit acting and become a whore. Nah, she'll suck at that too"
I doubt people who run around saying they'll go to Gus's house and kick him in the nuts or hang him from the ceiling etc. would actually go to his, had they had the oppurtunity, and actually do that. Or the people who say that Gus should be run over by a bus (speaking of Gus run over by a bus, I'm disappointed to not see more of that, Gus and bus rhyme!) don't actually mean it.
If you're so affected by how people say things then all I can say is "welcome to the Internet"
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would anyone like to pay me 13k usd so that i can learn how to not mistakes in organising a tournament?
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Well for my part, I have precedence issues and do think the Amanda fundraiser (although for the good of a person) may set a bad precedent for future "willing victims".
Well for one thing, the 12k usd balance that needed to be paid, I know I asked amaduh (the account of Amanda here in TL) whether or not that 12k is solely to pay of the airline tickets or is it including the travel agency profits but I never got a reply and the event/stream thread was already closed.
Point being is the travel agency and Amanda made a business call, an irresponsible one at that. So when the community went to help them, that should've just been for the net expense of the airline tickets as it is sort of a "cutting your losses thing" so that the agency doesn't go under as was claimed in one of the posts in one thread (finding it hard to locate now). And any excess goes into paying for the balances of PPSL as intended by IPL like the 900usd TGR fronted for clive who was also a "willing victim" but didn't work for the hotel industry anyway (as far as we know).
The rest I could say were simply victims as we don't have any new facts that come to light even after the interview.
Just to add into the discussion that won't ever see the light of day until both Gus and Team AZK speaks up. I keep repeating this but although Gus is the manager of Team AZK, there are other upper echelons beside Gus. I mean that is logical, like the event planning group/committee that Team AZK should've set up for the event that was PPSL (even before it was an IPL qualifier). No official statements with facts, no seeing daylight for the issue. =)
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On November 17 2011 13:08 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:02 Bagration wrote:
Dangit Rachel, I appreciate the work that you have put in and for even obtaining this interview, but I wish you would go hardball on Gus. This man has screwed over so many people and now several thousand dollars has gone AWOL. There is no need to politeness here, hammer him with the tough questions and continue to press when he dodges the question.
As for the possibility of him bailing on the interview, that would only damage him further. But letting him dodge questions and present what he wants to say is simply giving him a platform to acquit himself.
Still, thanks for all of the work you put in. To quote Rachel from her Twitter: Sorry if some of you thought I was a little soft on Gus, but it was kid gloves or no interview at all. VoD's up on YouTube.
Totally agree with Rachel on that. Rachel could have asked hard hitting questions, but she herself as the interviewer and us also can see that he's a fucking mess, a liar and was desperately trying to find ways to bullshit his way through the interview. It was clear he could just pull the plug on the interview (and claim his mic broke, like before) or she could get whatever she can get in the interview.
Whatever he said, we already knew for the most part.
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Have to agree, Rachel did a good job. I think, somewhere that would be called professional, to just INTERVIEW someone, and not going on a crusade.
Dont forget, it was an interview which Gus couldve jumped out of at any times. Its not like a law-court where Gus HAD to answer every accusation.
Of course, we ended up with an interview after which we are as clueless as before, but thats not Rachels fault, but Gus. He chose to bullshit around, other than setting things straight.
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EPT
