Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
Not to troll, but clearly you don't read these forums that much? ~_~;; Any post that's remotely related to "who's the best player" has swedish posters posting about jinro/thorzain/nani, french posters talking about adelscott, canadians huk, etc. etc. I see it a ton around here, lol. You're right though that a lot of folks who aren't "patriotic" just default to "lololkoreans da best". Personally, I just like players for who they are and the style the play, not their country of origin! There's plenty of the "patriotic" type around though.
Haha no I didn't, but thinking about myself I'm not that patriotic. Mostly because the best Canadians are Protoss and I hate Protoss and also IdrA is baller status.
When I watch a sport that's essentially one person vs. another I don't really get the idea of country vs. country unless it's like the olympics. I think in every competition each player has the idea that they want to win it for themselves more than for their country so I don't quite get the hype around players fanboying around their native player, but it happens.
I'm not a very nationalistic/patriotic person to begin with though.
On June 16 2011 13:07 Clog wrote: I feel that people tend to have a devotion to their race more than their country when watching starcraft games. But maybe that's just me.
I'm the same here.
I just root for zergs // some certain players from protoss and terran, but zerg above the others.
Most patriotism is pretty silly to me but that's obviously a personal thing. There seems to be a decent amount of it in starcraft though for those who like it. Things will get crazy at WCG i'm sure.
Starcraft fans don't (usually) care about where you're from, they care about how good you are. Unless they're Korean, in that case you better be good as IdrA.
There is quite a bit patriotism in sc2 but I think since sc1 was dominated by korean players basically everyone outside korea is rooting for any foreigner if they're playing koreans. With that said once foreigners start to show much better results versus koreans and wait a few years there will definatly be more patriotism
Well in MLG i really found myself rooting for us players to dooo really well. And i really wanted Idra to win it all. But ya i think in a lot of events that have US players in it, i will generally root for the us players over other players, because of pride in my nation.
If anything - and if that were true - it proves that Starcraft is more of a science than sport. In science people are more interested in new things that work, than whose country made it. Cheers!
I support the player who deserve it, people that train hard and show respect for the game. Even though I'm American, I can't support the likes of Idra until he actually trains harder and has a better attitude.
Korean players just train harder and are likeable in general because they're so humble. There are American players on my list too such as Sheth, Kiwikaki, and team FXO!
I'd love to be patriotic, but seeing as there's not there's no one in my country who plays in the tourneys I watch, I'm sticking with rooting for my protoss brethren.
I cheer for Swedish players a lot, partially because of the completely arbitrary fact that we share the same lump of land located in the northern hemisphere. But mainly because the better they are, the more exposure they get and the sheer quantity of Swedish top players directly affects the SC2 scene where I live. I mean, that's how I would rationalize it if I had to. Also worth noting that Sweden is the least patriotic country on earth when it comes to everything except sports.
Personality and skill are both bigger factors than nationality though.
On June 16 2011 13:25 caelym wrote: I used to be very patriotic towards the American scene, but I've been let down too many times Now I wish I was Swedish.
I'm not patriotic at all, but I support the British player (note the singular, Demuslim's the only one of note, really) mainly because he's from a city not too far from where I was born and grew up, and I just think that's kinda cool. Also his stream with Rotterdam is hilarious.
Other than that I support Liquid; especially Jinro and Haypro, and I'd probably tend to support European players over other regions. But really I just want ggs.
On June 16 2011 13:25 stormtemplar wrote: For me it really varies. Generally Race>Country>Koreans of same race
Yup, this. Favorite zergs, then US players, then foreigners, then koreans. I have settled into a Korea vs the world mindset so I'm pretty much happy when any non-korean rocks the boat a little. If I do root for Koreans, it is only zergs (other than MC who is a baller and I love the cocky attitude.)
Root for your heroes durrrr; just dont be all gaga (like chenchen ^) over a Korean because their "the best." Groups of people who play with each other constantly will obviously have a better chance.
I root AGAINST the Koreans that think they autowin because of their race; isnt that called, like, racism, or something?
On June 16 2011 13:58 Arterial wrote: australia....has.....
Moonglade, tgun, some others and in bw we had Legionnaire.
Edit: As for the OP, the foreign community seems to have tonnes of patriotism, noticeable in any Korea vs World matches and yeah, at MLG, there were some obvious USA chants.
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Basically this. Also, people don't seem to understand the accomplishments of others has little to do with your own skill.
For example, right now the top players of EU are very good, basically almost if not equal to a lot of top Korean players. North America's pro scene, on the other hand, is in a sad state. However, that doesn't mean that if you're Korean or European, you're automatically superior to all North Americans. Even as a whole, the European and North American ladders are really not that different (many people do consider Korean ladder the hardest though.)
I, myself, have sc2 patriotism. As an american I will first cheer for IdrA(favorite player), but if he gets knocked out, I hope that any other american takes the event. If all of the americans are knocked out, then I cheer for the NA players(Canada, Peru, etc.), then europeans, then last but not least, Koreans. When it comes to these American made proleagues, I take CatZ's viewpoint. TBH I want to see large prize pool tournys like IPL that are purely/nearly all NA player filled. I feel like a win of an american born player is a win for americans in general, and a win for western esports.
Because I should cheer for someone because they happen to reside within an arbitrarily defined region that I also happen to be in? Granted ive never considered myself patriotic. Even when watching the olympics I was more interested in watching Chinese table tennis players, the Jamaican Usain Bolt, and American Michael Phelps rather than Canadians getting a bronze in some boring rowing event.
I'm from the US and i personally wish all our players would smash any other player into the ground then pull them out and catapult them onto the moon and blow it up with a nuclear warhead. But i'm an American and sometimes our patriotism is a little over the edge.
I like to see all players do well really. But i like it when USA players win. Like when IdrA was playing in MLG Colum. I wanted him to kick the Koreans ass to try and prove we can beat them. Sadly that only happened one time.
If no person from the USA is in it that i like then i usually just root for whoever i like best. SeleCT is a hard one because he is Korean but lives in the USA. I like to consider him one of ours but i can't i still <3 him though.
I'm patriotic for all foreigners, does that count?
Seriously though, country has very little to do with whether or not I like a player. The most influencing factor is probably their behavior outside of games (I love IdrA, MC, Naniwa etc because they are personalities). Race (zerg fighting!), play-style and the ability to provide epic games are probably the other big things that I base my liking of a player off of. Lesser influencing factors would be Dark Horse stories (Jookto in the super tournament), players who just stand out (leenock for his age, MKP for being MKP, etc), foreigners get automatic bonus points and success in tournaments effects likeability.
Excessive patriotism is always BAD and this excess is easily reached. Since patriotism is a "Yes or No" thing there isnt much to say about it. If you root for player X just because he was born in your country and not because you like his style of play that is patriotism, but it also means you are basing your decision purely on one emotion.
As emotions go that is one of the worst to base your decisions on, because there is no way to argue for / against something due to the black and white character of it. Personally I prefer to give my brain the biggest weight in who / what to like and who to despise, because I like the definition of "human" in Frank Herbert's book DUNE. Only if you are able to override your emotions and instincts are you truly a human, otherwise you are simply an animal.
As a german there arent that many players to root for and patriotism doesnt play any role in it. I like TLO because he thinks outside the box, tries wild things and is really funny when he casts and I like Goody because I like mech. Other than that I dont have any german favorites to root for and many of them are hidden in that obscure german Starcraft league which I dont watch anyways.
Personally I like individual players, I don't care where they're from.
On June 16 2011 14:55 Rabiator wrote:
As emotions go that is one of the worst to base your decisions on, because there is no way to argue for / against something due to the black and white character of it. Personally I prefer to give my brain the biggest weight in who / what to like and who to despise, because I like the definition of "human" in Frank Herbert's book DUNE. Only if you are able to override your emotions and instincts are you truly a human, otherwise you are simply an animal.
fuck nationalists. I always get angry and immediately turn off the stream (or just recently dont watch the german casters anymore) when casters are "patriotic" aka fuckin nationalists when one of "their" country is playing
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Basically this. Also, people don't seem to understand the accomplishments of others has little to do with your own skill.
Elaborate on this. Do you think people cheer for countrymen in order to boost their own ego? If so, what do you base it on?
I've seen countless x country/region vs y country/region arguments in a huge number of SC2 threads, whether LR or otherwise. Usually occurs when talking about EU vs NA, with average joe EU player talking down on NA players because the top foreign players happen to be from Sweden.
I said in my post that cheering for your countrymen is perfectly legit. But to talk down on an entire region because Thorzain is really, really good and you happened to be born a few miles from him is nothing short of stupid.
On June 16 2011 13:23 MechKing wrote: I support Terrans regardless of nationality.
^ same here!
Can't say I'm a big mOOnGLaDe fan, Although I'd be happy if he did well in any tournament!
I do have a bias towards "foreigners" in the Korean vs Foreigner clashes. Not because I'm racist, just I consider the foreign players underdogs, and I naturally tend to go for the underdog in any sport. Although if IMMvp was playing...might be different :D
I always feel in me the desire that the Swedish players that i like win more strongly than i feel it for other players i like. When i examine it objectively i have to admit it's because of a false sense that this somehow reflects on me and makes ME special, when in fact that is completely false. This is how nationalism works and its insidious because i don't want it, looking at older people though it seems to go away as one gets older and sees more people and define one's own person more. I would never however display this nationalism and it annoys me when other swedes shove it in other peoples faces.
Rivalry adds a shit ton to competition and I would say without a doubt that I wouldn't follow sc2 at all if all players were korean like with BW. Sure, shame on me I'm not that hardcore like all the BW fans here, but I love the excitement before big games and I don't think the excitement would've been that big if it weren't for rivalries between countries and their fans.
It's also super good for esport in the west if we really get the country vs. country going. Say if Peter, 40 years old browsing the internet, stumbles upon this stream were Swedes are fighting Danes. He would get involved because he fucking hate Danes in sport :D he would cheer for the swedish players and maybe tune in next time. Thats how you grow a sport. You can't get someone fresh and expect him to get how you play a video game, you can however, get him to understand it's pride on the line.
Btw I hate excessive patiotism on forums, makes me sick.
Rooting for team Zerg all the way regardless of nationality
If a german player is playing and it's a match without Z, I usually root for the german player. Not because I'm especially patriotic but I think a strong national scene helps making SC2 become more popular in that country.
Socke HasuObs DarKFoRcE Go0dy ClouD (yes i know he is italian, but he tried to pronounce "Streichholzschächtelchen" correctly - so he is almost german O_o
I support Protoss in any game. However, there are some exceptions. If in any game my favorite players are playing, I will root for them even if it has Protoss as the opponent. Those people are IdrA, WhiteRa, QXC, BoxeR, NaDa, July etc.
On June 16 2011 13:05 Leyra wrote: You're right though that a lot of folks who aren't "patriotic" just default to "lololkoreans da best". Personally, I just like players for who they are and the style the play, not their country of origin! There's plenty of the "patriotic" type around though.
This is from the front page, but I have to respond. It drives me crazy when people make comments like that, as though using a stupid tone to reiterate a position you disagree with is a substitute for a valid argument. Koreans are, in general, the best. I'm not sure how you can claim otherwise.
Being a perfectionist, as I'm sure a ton of people here are, I like the best players to succeed as that tends to produce the best matches. Naturally, then, I support a lot of Korean players. Plus, I think the whole MLG thing is tempered by the fact that a lot of people just really don't like Idra, whether they're from America or not.
Whoever said people tend to be highly patriotic about their race is dead on, as well. That plays a really big role.
I think AustinCM missunderstands quite a lot. This has nothing at all to do with patriotism. It's just cheering for good players. The best players. And if the come from one country over the past 10 years...who cares. Then it is just that way. It's pretty irrelevant where that country is or what people call it.
Just imagine the best palyers would come from 50 different countries completely even balanced. So what? People would still cheer for the best and love to see good matches. I think hardly anyone really cares where on the planet their mother pressed the players out of her uterus.
It's all about the players and not a bit about a country.
Why would you cheer for a player just because they happened to be born in the same country as you? Why not cheer for a player that has a style you like, or you like their decision-making. Or just cheer for good play in general regardless of which player is the one executing it.
Better yet, cheer for Losira because he looks like a cute little ewok.
On June 16 2011 16:16 Big J wrote: gogogo austrian progamers... hm wait... there are no
so what? fuck it
what's important is the skill and/or the personality of a progamer not the fuckin country
just making a joke man, Im not one of this wanna-be-nazis we are having troubles with in our country.
I also don't think the nationality should matter, yet I do think, that things like international championships would be awesome and I would surely cheer for an austrian team, if there was one.
On June 16 2011 17:35 _civ_ wrote: Why would you cheer for a player just because they happened to be born in the same country as you? Why not cheer for a player that has a style you like, or you like their decision-making. Or just cheer for good play in general regardless of which player is the one executing it.
Better yet, cheer for Losira because he looks like a cute little ewok.
Why would cheering for someone because of their skills be better than cheering for them because their of your nationality? If you only want people to cheer for skills you'll never get non-gamers into esports. This mindset on TL is something that remains from BW and I don't like it. My non SC friends would never watch korean vs. korean, or european vs. europan. They have watched swede vs. foreigner and swede vs. swede because they can relate and they liked it.
If you like starcraft to remain on TL and reddit and never really hit mainstream, that's fine, but you shouldn't look down upon people who cheer for players because of nationality.
I can watch FC Barcelona vs Manchester United in football because I know their skills is exeptional, but Sweden vs. Denmark will still get more viewers on national television.
I almost always cheer Terran first, but I always hope to see foreigners do well when they play against Koreans just because seeing the underdog win is fun, and it's nice to see 'us' be competitive.
but when you get someone like MMA who has been so completely exciting to watch, it's hard to cheer against him even when he plays a hometown hero like idra. so in those types of games I just hope for some entertainment.
When Finland won Sweden in ice hockey and won the world championship people ran over the border to Sweden and burned flags of Sweden :D I think nationalism is good for SC2.
I root for Swedish players at all times, of course!! I am only really happy when Swedish players and White-Ra win important matches :D (The latter because he is so goddamn awesome and nice)
On June 16 2011 17:51 Koshi wrote: I am a THE patriotic fan. I haven't missed a single event/match when somebody played from my country in a big league.
Surely you must be joking. Belgian players never participate outside of benelux, or a big international league.
The only great American player is IdrA and he's not exactly the poster child of a professional e-sports athlete. I'm half Asian, so that's a good enough reason to root for the Koreans
i think when people from random countries root for koreans i dont think its so much wanting koreans to win as the best players to win.
ive only met a korean irl 2 times but my top 5 players are all koreans right now. i basically like their team houses and work ethic so much i can tolerate them knowing 90% less english than europeans usually know.
i always root for idra for the first half of a tournament till he gives away games and drops out.
also, from the sounds of posts in this thread, the way europe is setup makes it much easier for international competition there. less teams per country, countries very close together. in the us we have like 30 teams for each sport and we mostly play ourselves, occasionally canadians. also some of our states are more like european countries size/distance wise. east coast and west coast are more far apart than many european countries so sometimes we dont have as much national pride and more state pride (outside of the biggest events like the olympics). this definately doesnt apply to all sports equally or everyone, but i think this is a bit of the difference between eu/us cheering.
The way I look at it is that I support the players that I like and know. I am a fan of a lot of foreign players more just because I do not get to watch the Korean players nearly as often, so I do not know many of them that well. If all else is equal though, I will generally root for the NA or Foreign player just because they are the underdog.
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
Kind of hard to be when your fav players definitely come outside your country most of the time.
And for me, I'm finn, do you really think I would care Naama that much? Finland isn't only country with no many good players
E: I think nationalism should be cut from eSports for good. (Like from everything.) E2: WHY should I be biased because of the country you were born? I root for korean if he deserves it as a person.
I root for players based on their play style / clan or personality, but for the most part i don't know their country .. and couldn't care less about it.
I am from a country that doesnt have players in the top so i always choose to stick with the progamers that have a crazy style of play, like WhiteRa, TLO, or MKP and with the guys who care about thier fans.
I think I become a little patriotic when people just don't acknowledge players from "my" scene (be it Europe or Germany). For example before TSL happened who knew about Goody or Hasuobs?
When somebody posts "hasuobs actually has the most amazing blink stalker micro in the world" of course people are gonna throw shit at him, because they just didn't have the information, which arose from watching his less popular games.
However, in bigger Tournaments I always cheer for the more sympathetic guys.
My top 5 favorite players are all Koreans, but as a Swede, I support and cheer for Swedish players because I want to help them and Swedish ESPORTS grow and become more successful. I want the Swedish scene to be second only to Korea. I want to be able to go somewhere in Stockholm on a random weekend and watch my favorite professional SC2 players play live. It has absolutely nothing to do with any supposed skill reflecting back on me.
Do you really think there would be that much press for Jinro, and in turn SC2, in Swedish media if fans here didn't support him and instead told him to GTFO just because they didn't like his style or race? Now that's ignorant.
I support protoss in general and kind of want idra to always lose (in the sense that these games tend to be very entertaining for one reason or another.). Nationality just seems odd as a motivation.
which one i root for in the game : zerg vs anything (except GSL, go to point 2 ) if not : foreigner vs korean if not : protoss vs terran except anyone vs MC
There are like two cz players so i don't have a chance to be patriot.
I personally think national pride is just an illusion that brings more bad than good in general (won't elaborate here since this thread isn't specifically about that, but just saying). I always thought it's more logical to root for the better or the better-mannered players, than decide on whom to root for based on country of origin, especially when they cannot "choose" their country of origin. It had occurred to me before that I didn't root for a player from my country and instead rooted for his opponent.
I cheer in general for underrated players and against overhyped players which covers 90% of the games and then I allways love when cocky whiners get their ass handed.
On June 16 2011 18:54 Influ wrote: I cheer in general for underrated players and against overhyped players which covers 90% of the games and then I allways love when cocky whiners get their ass handed.
I cheer alot against overhyped players and for underrated players, too.
But I also like to cheer for our German heroes because of a variety of reasons that I don't want to get into... let's just say I want Germany to have a strong scene and because of events/casting with Take and the German pro podcast I "know" them better and can relate to them more.
I guess I'm most patriotic when it comes to EU vs anyone else tho.
Overall I still want to see good games tho, I wouldn't be pleased with Darkforce 6pooling his way to GSL champion
Rooting based on nationality is pretty stupid, imo; primitive, I dare say. A lot of other people seem to think the same way, which is why excluding Koreans or anybody is an unwise decision.
Dont really care. I've some favorite players (Kas, Happy, MKP, DeMusliM etc - yes i play t) and I root for them. Other than that, I just like to see good games.
I don't care where the player is from, I just want to see the best play (or something very innovative). And Koreans are simply better, so there you go.
Is there a reason to cheer for someone that happened to be born in the same country as you?
Just because I was born in the US doesnt make me have some sort of connection with idra, he's one of 300 million people that just happened to be born on a landmass with the same name.
Patriotism is good and well when you want to improve the quality of life around you, but what reason does it have in games and sports?
On June 16 2011 19:23 alepov wrote: I don't care where the player is from, I just want to see the best play (or something very innovative). And Koreans are simply better, so there you go.
Same.
That said, come WCG2011 (HYPEEE) There's going to be some nation hyping (Hi Swedish TL-ers) + patriotism!
I generelly support the players i like the most. Simple as that. And its more likely that i like someone who i "know" kinda. So a person like incontrol is just one of my favourite players because he is an awesome person and has that underdog feeling. I don't like rooting for the favorites that much.
and about patriotism (which is just a nicer term for nationalism) it's just stupid in my eyes. i will never be patriotic and just don't get it why people feel attached just about a birth place. ... and its no argument that "they do it in other sports aswell". that just a lemming call.
On June 16 2011 19:23 alepov wrote: I don't care where the player is from, I just want to see the best play (or something very innovative). And Koreans are simply better, so there you go.
Same.
That said, come WCG2011 (HYPEEE) There's going to be some nation hyping (Hi Swedish TL-ers) + patriotism!
This kind of surprises me, I always thought there was kind of a negative load to the word patriotism, especially by americans :p (no offense). That said, I think it's kind of silly to judge people based on nationality.
Patriotism are you kidding me? That a US-Only thing, because the stupid Americans thing they are the greatest country in the world, they're so wrong.
I'm rooting for players that I like the most, their country isn't really important. I like TLO mostly because of his unique builds and his entertaining games (NUKES!) and MKP for his great Bio-Play (Base-Race Series vs Nada!).
On June 16 2011 20:10 Jedi Master wrote: Patriotism are you kidding me? That a US-Only thing, because the stupid Americans thing they are the greatest country in the world, they're so wrong.
... yes Americans are -very- patriotic but they are definitely not the only patriotic country and have you ever seen something like a football world cup?
I love my own country but that doesn't mean I think we are the greatest, I consider myself patriotic but not chauvinistic.
Uh, I'm from norway. And the only pro players I can think of from approximately here would be the swedes, so would have to cheer for scandinavia then. Prefer great players with great personalities that just deliver awesome games, regardless of where they're from.
I'm highly patriotic towards my Zerg compatriots. For the SWARM.
However I see little purpose in dividing pro players into individual countries. We're all playing a game that breaks the color of our skin, creeds and nationalities; that transcends the pointless labeling we assign everyone in real life. I see three races. I hate Terran, I think Protoss are alright and I'll support a Zerg player till the end.
But no, I don't cheer for American progamers any more than I cheer for Norwegian or Korean progamers. I cheer for the smartest, fastest and most successful players whether they're from Zimbabwe or New Zealand.
On June 16 2011 20:10 Jedi Master wrote: Patriotism are you kidding me? That a US-Only thing, because the stupid Americans thing they are the greatest country in the world, they're so wrong.
I'm rooting for players that I like the most, their country isn't really important. I like TLO mostly because of his unique builds and his entertaining games (NUKES!) and MKP for his great Bio-Play (Base-Race Series vs Nada!).
I've never understood why these "Stupid American" posts aren't a bannable offense on this forum... to me that's kind of like calling someone a racial slur. It's bigotry, even if it's based on something silly like their country of origin.
That being said, you're a fool if you think "stupid Americans" are the only ones who believe in patriotism. It's an incredibly common feeling, just look at the World cup or something. Ignorant ass.
Most Swedish people on this forum are idiots and very annoying with their patriotism (and i say this as a swede). It's straight up embarassing most of the time.
You should try living in America if you want to see annoying patriotism.
Leyra, most people that make America bashing posts without reason or support last less than a few months. It isn't even US bashing, its just shit posts.
On June 16 2011 21:00 Probe1 wrote: You should try living in America if you want to see annoying patriotism.
this absolutely =\
im very happy to live in a country with a good economy like america and i feel the people who live near me are pleasant, so i feel kinda patriotic.... untill i read what 'patriotic' americans put on the internet...
its cool when people talk about their country in a positive light, the shit storm comes when people talk bad about another country, or SO good about their own it basically means they have contempt for other countries.
OP probably didn't see the TSL thread after Thorzain beat MC, for one example. We had people posting the Swedish flag and generally saying annoying stuff like "LOL, KOREA WHO?" It made my head hurt. I understand that people want to see players of their nation beat Koreans, but come on, it's incredibly annoying to just see the mass patriotic gloating whenever it actually happens.
I tend to pick my favourite players based on a mixture of skill and personality with nationality meaning little to me. MoonGlade may be a fellow Australian, but I've yet to see play from him that has won me over, like many other players have. I can fully understand that people like nationalism, it's just not for me I suppose.
On June 16 2011 21:09 HolyArrow wrote: OP probably didn't see the TSL thread after Thorzain beat MC, for one example. We had people posting the Swedish flag and generally saying annoying stuff like "LOL, KOREA WHO?" It made my head hurt. I understand that people want to see players of their nation beat Koreans, but come on, it's incredibly annoying to just see the mass patriotic gloating whenever it actually happens.
I appologize on behalf of the vast majority of swedish people who do not wave flags. You must remember that many people who are interested in e-sports are rather young and will not have developed that most excellent of human qualities - tact.
starcraft transcends things like nationality, age, sex or religion. Everybody here shares the same interests and we all (usually) speak english. The only different groups i could identify is the english speaking community, and the non english speaking community (like korea and china) but those borders are also slowly dissappearing.
It's actually one of the things I like most about the starcraft community: nobody gives a fuck about who you are and where your from, as long as your just a nice person.
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
Many of the long time members of this community are so used to there being Korean pro players... and not much else, so strongly focused on the Korean scene... and not much else, that they not only put the Koreans on a pedestal, but some people honestly are deifying these guys. A word against a Korean player is like blasphemy to those tools. :lol I still chuckle to myself when I think of the TSL3 first round games, where there were just pages of people arrogantly declaring an all-Korean semi final and podium ahead of the competition. And then them all going WHAT THE FUCK when they got owned. :lol
I like to support my country's players, Hasu Socke TLO Goody I'm always cheering for these guys when they participate in a tournament. After that, I'm partial to EU players, then SEA (Moonglade <3 <3), then NA players and finally Koreans.
Obviously, those are just vague guidelines, and there are lot of exceptions based on sympathy and general baller-ness like rooting for cool Koreans (Select, Keen etc) or NA players (Sheth) above other considerations.
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Are you proud when your brother/sister/father/mother achieves something great?
But you didn't choose to be born into that family.
It's a natural thing to cheer for the things close to you, to be proud of the people close[r] to you.
For some people that only extends to themselves, for some to their family, their friends, their country, etc etc.
family members =/= random guy that you don't know out of the other 300 million citizens of a country, where "country" for this purpose is nothing but a bunch of squiggly lines on a map.surely you see the difference.
and even though you didnt ask me, no i wouldnt be proud, i would be happy.
I think nationality is a lot less important in non-team sports in general. Compare soccer/football/hockey/rugby vs. golf/tennis. For team sports, it's hard to get a feel for the personalities of every player, so you just root for the country.
Even though I'm Canadian, I have more in common with a manner, standup Swedish player like Jinro than an absolute jerk like Drewbie (JOKING, I <3 Drewbie, this is just an example).
id be happy for a close relation that did something great. id be proud of a relation that did something great if i contributed to them as a person to make great things possible.
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Are you proud when your brother/sister/father/mother achieves something great?
But you didn't choose to be born into that family.
It's a natural thing to cheer for the things close to you, to be proud of the people close[r] to you.
For some people that only extends to themselves, for some to their family, their friends, their country, etc etc.
family members =/= random guy that you don't know out of the other 300 million citizens of a country, where "country" for this purpose is nothing but a bunch of squiggly lines on a map.surely you see the difference.
and even though you didnt ask me, no i wouldnt be proud, i would be happy.
That was exactly my point. Some people keep it close, some people cast the net of "people they feel a relation to" wider, up to the point of having the same hometown. Or coming from the same state. Or from the same county. Or from the same country. Or from the same continent - do you get what I'm saying?
There's all different kinds of people - and you telling them who they can and can not feel happy for, or proud of - that's what I'm objecting to.
Just as a sidenote: that you are not proud of your family members is something we don't share. I feel both a sense of happiness and pride for those close to me.
edit: the most important point of all is to keep this a positive emotion. It's always better to cheer for someone than against someone.
Not every country has top players so its normal that some people just root for their race or favourite players. I usually root for the player and dont care about country neither the race....if a player has a style that I enjoy watching I want them to win to see more...dont care where is he from or what race does he play....but I think that in most cases theres a player that I know better or that I like more and I root for him in that match but the next match I want him to lose because I like the other player more.
Tho in the TSL qualifiers I saw some portuguese flags in the qualifiers and almost hoped they could go far (by far I mean advance one or 2 rounds lol ) but if they were playing against some player that I like i would root for that player and dont care they're portuguese...the closest thing that I have to patriotism in SC is when there are debates with NA vs EU....in that case I will go EU all the way ^^
I have never played with any top pro, I have never given a top pro strategy and I've only met very few top pros. Why would I blindly root for someone from the USA just because they happen to live within the same massive borders of my country? I'll support the best players with the best attitudes. Which is why as an American I cannot stand IdrA but can't stop rooting for MMA and MKP.
im more than that. im a racist. I think zergs are all dirty. Protoss only wait for a moment to abuse there secret power to crush us terrans. I dont care what planet they are come from. its all about the race!
Serious, this is a game in the internet. Country dont mean anything. But i notice that people start to root for "the own Server". Like EU vs NA. Its a good example how random people make the difference between "us" and "the others".
I personal care for a) the race, i only root for terrans and b) the playstyle So non of my fav. player is german.
On June 16 2011 22:29 skeldark wrote: im more than that. im a racist. I think zergs are all dirty. Protoss only wait for a moment to abuse there secret power to crush us terrans. I dont care what planet they are come from. its all about the race!
Serious, this is a game in the internet. Country dont mean anything. But i notice that people start to root for "the own Server". Like EU vs NA. Its a good example how random people make the difference between "us" and "the others".
I personal care for a) the race, i only root for terrans and b) the playstyle So non of my fav. player is german.
I'm not really patriotic about sc2 players (but I am in non ESPORTS). Mostly because most french players are idiots (and it's not a sc2 thing, french player are known for their stupidity and bad manners, it's like a long legacy, for instance in the latest big french lan there was a fight TT) I appreciate mostly skill, and even if some french players are skilled like Adelscott, I was still rooting for MVP in their TSL match (and it was before Adel made dumb comments in EGMC) .
I'm mostly patriotic about EU vs NA or EU vs KOR tho. I would root for Thorzain and Naniwa or Jinro and Huk against anyone else, except perhaps MKP whom I'm a fanboy of.
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
I'm EXTREMELY patriotic. Too bad Norway is not up there with Sweden in SC2. Because of the lack of Norwegians I root for the swedes before everybody else. They are substitue-Norwegians. I have not once been rooting for a Korean when they have played any foreigner, even when the foreigner I like the least play the Korean I like the most.
I have never and will never understand unpatriotic rooting in any sport. It's just weird to me and unnatural. Even in NFL were everyone is from all over the US I root for Minnesota because that's the state with most Norwegian-Americans.
Well personally, when i just started getting into watching progaming in SC2, i didn't know much about the players. So when i heard about Huk, a canadian, in the GSL, i quickly became attached. (It also helped that he was a protoss, since that was my favorite race even in SC1.)
But as i kept watching more and more SC2, and getting to know all the different players, I started to also like other players from all around the world. Guys like oGsMC, Jinro, and many others.
I also find myself rooting more for certain teams, like i obviously cheer for Liquid, and oGs as well because of their connection with Liquid. Actually I'm curious, do you guys find yourselves cheering more for a certain team, then players from a country?
So in the end, if i was watching a game between two players i didnt know well, I would most probably root for the Canadian, but say if KiwiKaki was up against Jinro or something, i would cheer for Jinro because I feel more attached to team Liquid.
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Are you proud when your brother/sister/father/mother achieves something great?
But you didn't choose to be born into that family.
It's a natural thing to cheer for the things close to you, to be proud of the people close[r] to you.
For some people that only extends to themselves, for some to their family, their friends, their country, etc etc.
family members =/= random guy that you don't know out of the other 300 million citizens of a country, where "country" for this purpose is nothing but a bunch of squiggly lines on a map.surely you see the difference.
and even though you didnt ask me, no i wouldnt be proud, i would be happy.
That was exactly my point. Some people keep it close, some people cast the net of "people they feel a relation to" wider, up to the point of having the same hometown. Or coming from the same state. Or from the same county. Or from the same country. Or from the same continent - do you get what I'm saying?
There's all different kinds of people - and you telling them who they can and can not feel happy for, or proud of - that's what I'm objecting to.
Just as a sidenote: that you are not proud of your family members is something we don't share. I feel both a sense of happiness and pride for those close to me.
edit: the most important point of all is to keep this a positive emotion. It's always better to cheer for someone than against someone.
of course i get what you're saying, i see people spraying patriotism around every day, obviously it's something im aware of. I'm not objecting, I'm just saying it doesn't make much sense at all.
Actually I am objecting, since more often than not patriotism or being a fan of something in general will end up with you attacking different countries/teams etc more than supporting the country/team you're a fan of.
Think patriotism is perfectly fine, you cheer for your countrymen because you bond with them. In a way their like your family. But i also get why you would cheer for a single player because of their attitude, style or skill. Different people value different things, some countries may not have good players to cheer for so they naturally cheer for the players the like personally disregarding nationality.
They both make you feel happy when they win so why should any reason be bad?
Ofc being overly patriotic is bad when you start waving a flag in LR threads like someone mention earlier. But if you want new people to join the SC2 community you cant get people involved by going on about players skills. Since it doesn't matter to them, nationality however does.
Like i have experienced when i tried to get my friend into SC2, he didn't care much about anything micro/macro/style was just irrelevant. But i noticed he reacted on me mentioning how good Sweden was at it. That's what sparked his interest because now he had something to relate to, a reason to cheer and watch streams.
I couldn't care less if some German guy wins some important tournament (unless I adore his actual play). In a game between DarKFoRcE and MajOr for example I'd root for MajOr just because I think he is the more entertaining player to spec. (Although DarKFoRcE is a hilariously funny guy °_°)
On June 16 2011 13:28 wongisgreat wrote: No one chooses where they're born so it's foolish to be proud of it.
Are you proud when your brother/sister/father/mother achieves something great?
But you didn't choose to be born into that family.
It's a natural thing to cheer for the things close to you, to be proud of the people close[r] to you.
For some people that only extends to themselves, for some to their family, their friends, their country, etc etc.
family members =/= random guy that you don't know out of the other 300 million citizens of a country, where "country" for this purpose is nothing but a bunch of squiggly lines on a map.surely you see the difference.
and even though you didnt ask me, no i wouldnt be proud, i would be happy.
That was exactly my point. Some people keep it close, some people cast the net of "people they feel a relation to" wider, up to the point of having the same hometown. Or coming from the same state. Or from the same county. Or from the same country. Or from the same continent - do you get what I'm saying?
There's all different kinds of people - and you telling them who they can and can not feel happy for, or proud of - that's what I'm objecting to.
Just as a sidenote: that you are not proud of your family members is something we don't share. I feel both a sense of happiness and pride for those close to me.
edit: the most important point of all is to keep this a positive emotion. It's always better to cheer for someone than against someone.
of course i get what you're saying, i see people spraying patriotism around every day, obviously it's something im aware of. I'm not objecting, I'm just saying it doesn't make much sense at all.
Actually I am objecting, since more often than not patriotism or being a fan of something in general will end up with you attacking different countries/teams etc more than supporting the country/team you're a fan of.
You do not know or understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Go back to school.
If there's a bunch of vods to watch I always watch July first, since he's my favorite player. But if there are Ret and Grubby vods too they will be watched next
I am dutch and I support Ret, must mostly because he is a Teamliquid member rather then a fellow countrymen, Grubby I loved in his WCIII days but he has no results in SC2 and his play is not that impressive.
Maybe it's because there's no real active scene in Brazil, and aince 2008 I watch BW, but i don't really have any kind of patriotism on SC, maybe a little bit of foreigners vs koreans, but i'm always more interested in backgrounds and playstyles.
On June 16 2011 23:04 butchji wrote: I couldn't care less if some German guy wins some important tournament (unless I adore his actual play). In a game between DarKFoRcE and MajOr for example I'd root for MajOr just because I think he is the more entertaining player to spec. (Although DarKFoRcE is a hilariously funny guy °_°)
Srsly man.. Darkforce (Trollforce ) is awesome!! :D
No but you got the right idea I think. I don't care much about where a player comes from, more about their personality and mostly of course how they play...
Give a SC2 fan a BitByBitPrime and he is entertained for 5 minutes, give him an IdrA and he is entertained for a lifetime.
i loved mondragon before i knew he was german x3 . esports is more international thats why people are more scattered in who they like. Korea is a lil exception, as they are the center of esports so to say, but more secluded from the rest of the world (hundreds of reasons ! one is probably because of their training elitism, so they are mostly on top).
The biggest issue is probably the region barrier, internet just doesn't run smoothly on the globe, its getting better, but there are still some regiosn just have a terrible lag to each other. making nationswars a bit hard. Canada vs us no, europe vs each other np. But US/canada vs europe will be won by lag probably
I am canadian and protoss so its easy for me to cheer for kiwi huk and tt1. But i still love mc and a bunch of koreans for being the best. koreans are the best. Im patriotic but also... starcraftiotic. Just love the game and make it fun to cheer for people.
In most cases this is how I work... Swede vs Non-Swede => Go Swede! Korean vs Foreigner => Go Foreigner! European vs American => Go European!
All types of competitions are more fun to watch if you cheer for someone. Everyone is a part of at least one nation and this makes nations easy to fall back on when deciding who to cheer for.
Well, I sure do root for Kiwikaki and Slush, but that's not because they're canadian, that's because they're amazing players with creative styles
I also love adelscott even though he's from France...
Well, maybe I simply tend to root for people who speak french... I don't know, but anyway, even though I know that Koreans are sick StarCraft beasts, I usually root for the foreigners when it's Korean vs Foreigner.
On June 16 2011 13:06 AustinCM wrote: Haha no I didn't, but thinking about myself I'm not that patriotic. Mostly because the best Canadians are Protoss and I hate Protoss and also IdrA is baller status.
To be fair, when a country's representative such as Idra makes comments like "zerg isn't meant to beat protoss." and doesn't GG the emperor who is indirectly responsible for his successful career, sometimes you want other players to stomp him and simply shut him up.
That being said, I am Half Korean / Half Japanese while being raised in the US and China, so I have no real patriotism. I do feel proud when I see a Korean do well, but its not to the degree that I would call it patriotic. I am primarily a fan of play-styles over nationalities. I think most will say the same.
If there were more players per nationality and then there was a 'world' type tournament where only the best player from each nationality made it in then you would see more patriotic enthusiasm. Right now it seems like attitude/play-style/achievements/sc-race/team are the major determining factors to who you root for.
I'm originally from Poland but I don't follow the 2-3 players that are doing well in the scene right now. I do, however, like to see them have success. I've been living in Canada most of my life and I do root for Huk however I would probably be rooting for him even if he wasn't representing Canada due to his 'ceremonies' after GSL games and creative toss play.
I'm from Finland and I mostly root for Swedish players (even thou we are in a deep hate relationship in everything else). Of course if Naama is playing then I root for Naama, but mostly Swedish players. Some neighbor love for the e-sports scene!
That being said, I cheer for players whose play style I like, not their country of origin. For example, I'm a big fan of Grubby, for his charisma and his WC3 legend. I'm also a HuK fan, who btw was raised in Florida and wants to move to California (take that Canada :D, jkjk).
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
Many of the long time members of this community are so used to there being Korean pro players... and not much else, so strongly focused on the Korean scene... and not much else, that they not only put the Koreans on a pedestal, but some people honestly are deifying these guys. A word against a Korean player is like blasphemy to those tools.
...and there are plenty of reactionary tools who go overboard in the other direction. I don't think I need to point out the myriad of fools who cry "OMG KOREAN ELITISM" while almost exclusively glorifying players from their own region/nation.
I agree wholeheartedly with your first point. For example, I'm Chinese, grew up in China, had half of my primary/secondary schooling in the States, and consider myself relatively patriotic when it comes to my homeland; but, I grew up watching BW, so I almost exclusively root for Koreans, even against other Chinese players. Like in the Starswar tournament, I found myself rooting for the Koreans against the Chinese almost every time until XiaOt against MC, where I only rooted for XiaOt because of my distaste for MC.
I'm straight up Canadian, but there's really no Canadian players I'm especially fond of. I have a special place in my heart for IeftNaij if he ever gets good again, but beyond that not so much. Most of my favorite players are Korean, American or Swedish.
I do however always feel a good bit of pride when I see Canadians in the SC2 community doing the Yeoman's work of a Chill and Kennigit. Also when Canadians win I definitely feel some secret subconscious pride, like when Slush did so well this MLG.
EDIT: I feel most proud when I see a random player. GuineaPig and TLO are two of my top ProGamer crushes. When its GP vs anyone I'm cheering for him. TLO less now that he switched to Terran, but I still cheer for him. Too bad about his wrists D = I think there's more "racism" than anything else in SC2. Zergs like to cheer for Zergs, Toss for toss, and terrans for Terrans. Random's are so rare that I always go gah gah when I see them. It's too bad GuMiOh switched to Terran : X
Sadly I can't root for my county in Starcraft because there are no Hungarian pros. So I have a bit of a Eastern European bias instead Dimaga, Nerchio, Strelok, Kas, Nightend, White-Ra fighting!
Oh and EU>KR>US
But I don't take this too seriously. I also like Major, Huk, MMA
I am not patriotic at all, because it is stupid. Nationalism is totally last millenium. When will we finally get over it. It is more annoying than religion.
That said, TLO is the most wonderful human being on our planet. InControl said "people are acting like he invented the nuke, hahaha" and then TLO nuked him at MLG. Pure entertainment. Goody is funny because everyone says "he always goes mech" and then he goes mech and wins. Funny! Mondragon countering air with roaches? Yay! But I like them disregarding their nationality.
Socke and HasuObs are Protoss, therefore I am always against them.
I really don't see how nationalism can even have any place in our globalized internetsy world.
And why does everyone like Koreans so much? Because Koreans own white dudes. And they invented E-SPORTS (kind of).
I just love me the NA teams. I'm still teary about the ROOT boys breaking up, but at least coL is half American =). And the guys in EG are awesome too. I mean I like individual players but I'm always on the look out for the red, white, and blue next to the player names.
On June 17 2011 05:55 CPTBadAss wrote: I just love me the NA teams. I'm still teary about the ROOT boys breaking up, but at least coL is half American =). And the guys in EG are awesome too. I mean I like individual players but I'm always on the look out for the red, white, and blue next to the player names.
You want them French, Dutch or Russian? =) The french flag is even called blue white red ^^
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
I'm not sure if you are just joking... because it is the exact opposite on this site from what I see.
Many Swedes are always looking for excuses to say how much better their players are relative to their population. Many Europeans brag that EU > NA (which I agree with, but I hate having to read it OVER and OVER when its not even relevant). Many NA players will say how IdrA is the best player and defend him to the grave... or bring up NA players that are better than many EU players... etc.
There is plenty of "patriotism" which personally I find ridiculous. I understand the inclination to cheer for someone that is from your country, but too many times the braggers themselves become too prideful and seem to talk down on others.
Personally I go by personality and gameplay. My favorite player is from EU and I enjoy many players from all the regions. I don't go by the fact that I was born in the same general area as someone else... how is that relevant to starcraft 2? Again, I think it is fine if people do it, but personally it gets annoying when the other people seem to have far too much pride and just talk down on others because of it.
On June 16 2011 13:03 AustinCM wrote: Now lately I have noticed that no matter where you're from everyone loves the Korean Starcraft players. it is because of their tremendous skill and root in Starcraft and also how dedicated they are and I really commend them for this.
But, it seems that not too many people are actually that patriotic about their own countrie's players. Personally I am thrilled everytime a Canadian player gets the win over some other big name, like KiWi or HuK but it doesn't seem this way for everyone. I am a huge huge huge IdrA fan and also really like NesTea but I was wondering why people don't root for their own country as much as they root for the Korean to win no matter what match it is or where it is. Instead of many Americans being really happy that IdrA was the only contender against Koreans they chose to be negative about it and put the Koreans on a pedestal instead.
Maybe I get the wrong idea but what do you guys think? Do you think a lot of eSports fans are patriotic?
I don't favor one nationality over another. I prefer to root for the players themselves (esp zerg). Just cause CombatEX is American doesn't mean I'd rather him beat Fruitdealer. People like TLO and Sheth that do things for charity are those I enjoy seeing win. Sure its nice to see that Koreans dont completely dominate the entire world but it doesnt effect my preferences.
Also its kind of annoying how Koreans have some advantages over non-Koreans in many competitions. I dont recall which interview exactly but idra stated how its easier and less costly for them to enter American tournaments like MLG than it is for Americans to participate at korean venues.
Let me tell you all something about Swedish patriotism.
Within Sweden, calling yourself a patriot makes you a racist. Within Sweden, having a Swedish flag on your clothes, in your room, or soforth, makes you a racist Within Sweden, playing the national anthem, makes you a racist. Within Sweden, even mentioning the words "patriot, nationalist etc" is tabu.
I am Swedish by birth and I am extremely suprised by the Swedish patriots here on TL and hltv.org. It is just so uncommon as a Swede to see fellow countrymen being proud of Sweden. Normally, this is not OK. Perhaps it is because they can use the Internet as an outlet for their patriot feelings since it is impossible to do so within Sweden. For example, when I lived in America I had to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school (while having my right hand on my heart, starring at the American flag). This behavior would be soooo not-okay in Sweden. There have even been discussions about removing the Swedish national anthem from graduations and other school event as it is perceived as hostile by foreigners/immigrants.Any Swede on here will agree with me.
That said. Sometimes I feel embarrassed by the Swedish TL:ers. Being proud of Swedish players and cheer for them is OK, but doing retarded stuff such as posting the Swedish flag etc is just lame.
Patriotism is clearly a bias when in comes to judge who is the best at something. In my humble opinion the word "patriotism" sounds more pejorative that anything else.
On June 17 2011 10:42 borny wrote: Let me tell you all something about Swedish patriotism.
Within Sweden, calling yourself a patriot makes you a racist. Within Sweden, having a Swedish flag on your clothes, in your room, or soforth, makes you a racist Within Sweden, playing the national anthem, makes you a racist. Within Sweden, even mentioning the words "patriot, nationalist etc" is tabu.
I am Swedish by birth and I am extremely suprised by the Swedish patriots here on TL and hltv.org. It is just so uncommon as a Swede to see fellow countrymen being proud of Sweden. Normally, this is not OK. Perhaps it is because they can use the Internet as an outlet for their patriot feelings since it is impossible to do so within Sweden. For example, when I lived in America I had to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school (while having my right hand on my heart, starring at the American flag). This behavior would be soooo not-okay in Sweden. There have even been discussions about removing the Swedish national anthem from graduations and other school event as it is perceived as hostile by foreigners/immigrants.Any Swede on here will agree with me.
That said. Sometimes I feel embarrassed by the Swedish TL:ers. Being proud of Swedish players and cheer for them is OK, but doing retarded stuff such as posting the Swedish flag etc is just lame.
EPT
and also IdrA is baller status.
