• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:46
CEST 22:46
KST 05:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)5[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th152Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
The Korean Terminology Thread Data needed Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW fans in southern Sweden, look here!
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6831 users

Top 20 current tournament maps data - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Ertu
Profile Joined November 2010
Greece686 Posts
June 09 2011 00:18 GMT
#21
Wow,this looks incredibly weird...especially on TvZ,I would swear that my Backwater Gulch is my best map for TvZ on the current rotation,with all the cliffs and the siege locations, and Forgotten Temple the worst,being so open wide.

These stats prove me dead wrong :O
Zamiel
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States211 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 00:29:07
June 09 2011 00:27 GMT
#22
This is a nice idea Diamond, but the skeptic in me would really like to see a column in the spreadsheet for sigma significance for each map.

Can Diamond/someone edit that in to the google docs spreadsheet?


Unfortunately, even with the addition of this transparency, the numbers will lack any kind of bearing to current balance (as Plexa mentioned).
"Mech is at the store buying groceries and you attack him at home. You burn his house down. And then he comes home and puts out the fire, and then you burn down the grocery store so he can't buy more groceries."
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
June 09 2011 00:34 GMT
#23
Whoa! this is really cool. I think I'll use this to choose maps to play in tournaments from now on
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
June 09 2011 00:37 GMT
#24
On June 09 2011 09:18 Ertu wrote:
Wow,this looks incredibly weird...especially on TvZ,I would swear that my Backwater Gulch is my best map for TvZ on the current rotation,with all the cliffs and the siege locations, and Forgotten Temple the worst,being so open wide.

These stats prove me dead wrong :O


I thought the exact same thing lol. Gulch totally blows ZvT and I love shattered temple zvt.. weird.
Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
June 09 2011 00:40 GMT
#25
Scrap Station - 4.30% - (50.10% / 47.80% / 52.10%)

a lot of complains about this map, but seems really balanced.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Kelsier
Profile Joined March 2010
United States31 Posts
June 09 2011 00:53 GMT
#26
17: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 20.00% - (43.70% - 53.20% - 53.10%)

6.3 + 3.2 + 3.1 = 12.6%, I think just a typo. Really nice data though. Interesting to see where facts and perception differ.
SCFlavor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States82 Posts
June 09 2011 01:05 GMT
#27
Didn't know xelnaga is such a bad map for zerg only 45% overall. A map that is the most used and usually the starting map of clan wars.
Proud manager of StyleCraft, a top masters clan in NA.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 01:27:07
June 09 2011 01:10 GMT
#28
Sorry, I wasn't very clear Diamond. I meant the average of the variance, not the variance of the average.

Here is what it looks like when you take the variance first.

[image loading]

So yeah, that shows it a little bit more clearly. Scrap Station is a map that is somewhat balance, there isn't a big variation in win rates but Shattered Temple on the other hand has a very big variance in win rates between match ups.

Testbug seems balance if you take the average but if you check out the variation in win rates it is not that great, Xel'Naga by your averages is worse than Testbug but has considerably less variation in win rates

You could always get more specific but this gets shows the gist of it pretty well
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 01:27:06
June 09 2011 01:26 GMT
#29
On June 09 2011 10:10 Dommk wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't very clear Diamond. I meant the average of the variance, not the variance of the average.

Here is what it looks like when you take the variance first.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]




Put that in OP
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
June 09 2011 01:28 GMT
#30
awesome information very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
June 09 2011 01:29 GMT
#31
On June 09 2011 10:28 iNcontroL wrote:
awesome information very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...


Thanks <3 . Yea that surprised me too, really was the biggest shock when I was inputting the data.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
June 09 2011 01:31 GMT
#32
according to your stats.

shattered temple is the worst ZvT map? that makes me doubt your statistics quite a bit

how in the world could zerg have an average of 28% win vs T on that map that is considered by most to be a Zerg map.
khanofmongols
Profile Joined January 2011
542 Posts
June 09 2011 01:42 GMT
#33
how is zerg best against terran on Backwater? Small sample? I thought tanks were reallllllly good on that map, same with crossfire.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
June 09 2011 01:45 GMT
#34
On June 09 2011 10:31 PhiliBiRD wrote:
according to your stats.

shattered temple is the worst ZvT map? that makes me doubt your statistics quite a bit

how in the world could zerg have an average of 28% win vs T on that map that is considered by most to be a Zerg map.

Probably the same reason why Zerg has a great win percentage vs Terran and Protoss on Crossfire, the reason being there is more to this game than the fairly shallow analysis people tend to make.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 09 2011 01:50 GMT
#35
We will all look at the stats and see what we want to see. For example I see shattered temple and think: Close positions skew the data in ZvT
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
June 09 2011 01:56 GMT
#36
On June 09 2011 10:50 Probe1 wrote:
We will all look at the stats and see what we want to see. For example I see shattered temple and think: Close positions skew the data in ZvT

These are tournament games, I can only imagine the maps they are using have close positions removed, save Metalopolais because that should have games before people started the trend of removing close positions from maps
ehalf
Profile Joined September 2010
408 Posts
June 09 2011 02:03 GMT
#37
Very very nice post. Numbers just are far more better than opinions.
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 02:08:55
June 09 2011 02:07 GMT
#38
On June 09 2011 10:28 iNcontroL wrote:
awesome information very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...


my thought exactly ... how the fuck zerg have so bad win ratio on this, it's supposed to be ridiculously good for zergs, stats for crossfire ZvT are weird too
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
June 09 2011 02:17 GMT
#39
On June 09 2011 10:42 khanofmongols wrote:
how is zerg best against terran on Backwater? Small sample? I thought tanks were reallllllly good on that map, same with crossfire.

Because any map that tanks are good on, mutas are even better on.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
June 09 2011 02:21 GMT
#40
On June 09 2011 11:17 eloist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2011 10:42 khanofmongols wrote:
how is zerg best against terran on Backwater? Small sample? I thought tanks were reallllllly good on that map, same with crossfire.

Because any map that tanks are good on, mutas are even better on.


Tanks are generally good on small, tight maps. It's the opposite for mutas.
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 475
JuggernautJason92
ProTech84
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1423
Dota 2
capcasts89
NeuroSwarm6
League of Legends
Doublelift2198
Other Games
summit1g7289
Grubby4166
singsing1731
FrodaN482
shahzam417
crisheroes224
Liquid`Hasu222
C9.Mang0169
Livibee72
ZombieGrub67
UpATreeSC59
ViBE24
Tefel17
MindelVK7
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV185
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 41
• Michael_bg 13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade889
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie1125
• Shiphtur198
Other Games
• WagamamaTV541
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 15m
CranKy Ducklings
13h 15m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 15m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
22h 15m
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 18h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 22h
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
OSC
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.