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On August 17 2010 06:26 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:13 CaptnIgnit wrote:
... seriously?
Like if the ESL had been monitoring the matches and caught the StrikeCro/Jobless debocale before IdrA had already finished playing?
Or wait, maybe if an ESL representative told IdrA that BigT would be casting his games live?
IdrA got angry because YOU fucked up. Anyone would have gotten angry in his situation. And then you made it worse throughout the night.
IdrA isn't completely without blame, because he did break your rules in certain ways, but 99% of the problems last night were because of your guy's actions. We are monitoring the matches, the issue just wasn't brought to our attention properly until those previous two matches were played. It's easy to say that, but unless your running the event and watching how fast people are playing matches its easy for two rounds of an event to happen before a mistake can be totally investigated. Players are setting up, starting and finishing matches often times before previous issues can be resolved or even discussed. So while I wish there was a better way of resolving tickets in a faster time frame there's really no way to interrupt a player while he's already playing his match. Actually our admin staff contacted IdrA before his second and third round matches. That's why he got PP. Still I don't think this should be an issue for National ESL staff. Players should WANT their matches casted. If I was IdrA I would want to build up my audience and get more people interested in me. But what do I know, I just ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006. As for the IdrA issue, only one angry here is you. We did our best to resolve the issue and deal with it. IdrA's travel considerations obviously created a more difficult situation.
Wow. Arrogance. Instead of trying to find way to improve the system, you just give up and say "it's not easy"? It's not supposed to be easy.. lol.
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On August 17 2010 06:20 Surrealz wrote:
I also love how ESL is saying that Idra constantly gives them problems, meanwhile Idra is in Korea playing starcraft professionally, and has been in more tournaments over the years than i can count
So you are telling me that Day9 is lying and idra is a wretched person? Apparently Idra is doing this to every tournament hes ever been in? Nope, has hasn't. You are doing a terrible job with your tourney. Idra has been in tons and tons of starcraft tournaments, and we don't hear about this except when YOU SCREW UP.
Take the points back from Idra and apologize to him. It was a private channel. You are losing credibility fast.
We at National ESL aren't blaming IdrA for anything that he wasn't given PP for. If he allowed the casters into the match there would have been no PP. I have no problem with IdrA.
Honestly we have gone out of our way to work with IdrA. We even consider rescheduling tonight's matches to allow IdrA to play and win $100. This isn't something personal against IdrA. The community has a lot of focus on him because of his name. The biggest issue last night was the replay of matches and incorrect result. This was an issue that National ESL resolved as soon as we were made aware of it.
Much of the rest of the problems resulted from IdrA's travel schedule today.
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On August 17 2010 06:33 Surrealz wrote:
ok so the professional players aren't allowed to trash talk crappy admins, but its PERFECTLY FINE for crappy casters to trash talk professional players.
yup sounds about right.
Who even said that ?
I think it was pretty obvious from this thread that none of them were acceptable.
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On August 17 2010 06:33 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:20 Surrealz wrote:
I also love how ESL is saying that Idra constantly gives them problems, meanwhile Idra is in Korea playing starcraft professionally, and has been in more tournaments over the years than i can count
So you are telling me that Day9 is lying and idra is a wretched person? Apparently Idra is doing this to every tournament hes ever been in? Nope, has hasn't. You are doing a terrible job with your tourney. Idra has been in tons and tons of starcraft tournaments, and we don't hear about this except when YOU SCREW UP.
Take the points back from Idra and apologize to him. It was a private channel. You are losing credibility fast.
We at National ESL aren't blaming IdrA for anything that he wasn't given PP for. If he allowed the casters into the match there would have been no PP. I have no problem with IdrA. Honestly we have gone out of our way to work with IdrA. We even consider rescheduling tonight's matches to allow IdrA to play and win $100. This isn't something personal against IdrA. The community has a lot of focus on him because of his name. The biggest issue last night was the replay of matches and incorrect result. This was an issue that National ESL resolved as soon as we were made aware of it. Much of the rest of the problems resulted from IdrA's travel schedule today.
Nobody else is talking about the problems resulting from the travel schedule. That was brought up and clarified on page 1 or 2.
Stop bringing it up. It is irrelevant. Your last 10 posts have mentioned it.
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On August 17 2010 06:27 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:24 rS.Sinatra wrote:On August 17 2010 04:33 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 04:31 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 04:29 travis wrote:
No, it wasn't "seen" that way, it's explicitly what was said. There was confusion among everyone involved, including some admins. IdrA's trip to Gamescom confused the situation further. If you fuck up, say that you fucked up. Man up. I edited my posts to show some quotes explicitly saying that they were banning Idra. There is no confusion about what was said. I am glad you guys went back on the decision but don't try to cover up what happened with lies. Hell, if an admin or 2 were idiots and messed up... just say that. Say what actually happened. Just don't try to lie to minimize it. Seriously I love the ESL, I love anyone who contributes to e-sports. But Integrity... please If you want to support things like Integrity on something like reversing a ban on a player that deserved it in the first place, how about supporting things like sportsmanship? Why was Idra even allowed to participate in ESL after what happened the first time around? This happens every time Idra competes in an event. Idra treats ESL like its a joke, the joke should be on him when he doesn't get to participate in prize tournaments and is banned from play. His sponsors should honestly pull out from backing his extremely poor attitude. Its one thing to earn your respect for your skill, its another to use that respect to think that you can say and do whatever the fuck you want to whomever the fuck you want. Being a nerd is no excuse for lack of respect or being socially inept. Learn the basics of being a REASONABLE human being should come before being a monkey that knows how to play professional RTS. Seriously, I love watching skill in action, I love quality replays that have tons of entertainment. But a little class... please I agree. If he breaks the rules he breaks the rules. What in particular are you talking about here? I sure as hell know what I am talking about, but I don't know what you are talking about nor how it's supposed to be any sort of direct reply to what I posted, as they seem to be two different topics altogether.
Its not a direct reply on your words themselves or disagreeing with what you say. I just think you should be pointing out the bigger picture about what is good for esports. What is more of an important issue right now? Respect or Integrity? While it could be argued that both are equally as important, without respect for others, no sponsors are going to back events full of 12 year olds who love their video games, and after that, we won't need integrity because there won't be any money in this game 
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On August 17 2010 05:56 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:51 Surrealz wrote:
While I agree with you on all of those points, you did not mention anything at all about bigT calling Idra the "a move zerg" and CONSTANTLY BMing other amazing players. He is annoying people so much that Chill, a huge member of TL, decided to BM bigT with his BIggerT stream.
Most people are agreeing idra overreacted, but nothing is being done on the basis of WHY idra didn't want BigT casting. Honestly, BigT is rude. He doesn't belong in these huge tourneys, and if I was a top notch player like Idra, I wouldn't want some rank 70 diamond guy telling me I'm an A move zerg while I'm playing.
And he was lagging idra. Its a special circumstance. The guy is in Korea. He is doing so much for esports its not even funny just by being an amazing US player over there.
Let me say that's inaccurate. You are suggesting that IdrA didn't want casters because it was BigT. The reality is that IdrA has been denying ANY caster who wants to broadcast his match while playing in National ESL. A pattern of behavior that started prior to last night.
Right, right Idra has said multiple time that BigT wasn't bothering him. He was bothering me though and I'm apparently not the only one. Good for Idra just ignoring "a-move zerg" but it's not something I care to see from a caster.
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On August 17 2010 06:32 rS.Sinatra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 17 2010 05:44 Surrealz wrote:
Please, just remove BigT from the web, and clean Idra's record. Idra is doing more for SC2 than 99.9999999% of this population, including the casters. If anything, IdrA's BM is hurting e-sports' attempts at becoming respected. Having the best westerner in the world act like this isn't good for the scene. I don't like BigT's style of stream either, but I still think his "service", if you can honestly call it that, is doing much more than Idra's "get paid to play good and """"""entertain"""""" with poor manners" (Notice I had to quote entertain, because his poor attitude is anything but entertaining and is in fact doing us all a disfavor by making us all look like a bunch of nerd-rage kids who don't deserve to get paid to actually entertain?) <-- and yes despite the fact that you guys all probably knew what I was talking about, it was just something that HAD to be pointed out because of how bad this really is. I'll be the first to say Idra is a great RTS player. I'll also be the first to say that he is a horrible human being.
You just made me face-palm so hard.
You think Idra is a horrible human being? Hitler was a horrible human being. Idra plays video games.
the reason Idra bmed was probably because he is used to well run, professional events and there were so many unnecessary complications.
also, a commentator bming a player? really? Instant ban for BigT in any well run organization. Not to mention that he has been caught cheating by collusion.
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On August 17 2010 06:35 TurpinOS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:33 Surrealz wrote:
ok so the professional players aren't allowed to trash talk crappy admins, but its PERFECTLY FINE for crappy casters to trash talk professional players.
yup sounds about right. Who even said that ? I think it was pretty obvious from this thread that none of them were acceptable.
Check the rest of the thread, I think he's decided to start a witch hunt for BigT or something.
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On August 17 2010 06:26 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:13 CaptnIgnit wrote:
... seriously?
Like if the ESL had been monitoring the matches and caught the StrikeCro/Jobless debocale before IdrA had already finished playing?
Or wait, maybe if an ESL representative told IdrA that BigT would be casting his games live?
IdrA got angry because YOU fucked up. Anyone would have gotten angry in his situation. And then you made it worse throughout the night.
IdrA isn't completely without blame, because he did break your rules in certain ways, but 99% of the problems last night were because of your guy's actions. We are monitoring the matches, the issue just wasn't brought to our attention properly until those previous two matches were played. It's easy to say that, but unless your running the event and watching how fast people are playing matches its easy for two rounds of an event to happen before a mistake can be totally investigated. Players are setting up, starting and finishing matches often times before previous issues can be resolved or even discussed. So while I wish there was a better way of resolving tickets in a faster time frame there's really no way to interrupt a player while he's already playing his match. Actually our admin staff contacted IdrA before his second and third round matches. That's why he got PP. Still I don't think this should be an issue for National ESL staff. Players should WANT their matches casted. If I was IdrA I would want to build up my audience and get more people interested in me. But what do I know, I just ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006.As for the IdrA issue, only one angry here is you. We did our best to resolve the issue and deal with it. IdrA's travel considerations obviously created a more difficult situation.
Last I checked IdrA is already pretty famous. But what do you know, you only ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006.
Why would he want his matches casted if it meant a total d-bag would be doing it, and at the same time cause lag. If I were him I'd take the two penalty points as well.
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On August 17 2010 06:33 Baarn wrote:
So back to my question that was never answered from a prior post. Was it jobless that decided to rematch or was esl admins decision? Also why not be more strict about the no show rule in the future to avoid drama like this?
The two players didn't communicate. Strike reported the lose but Jobless had evidence showing he was looking for Strike. Strike didn't have evidence showing the same. This is why the match was overturned.
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On August 17 2010 06:36 ShaperofDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:32 rS.Sinatra wrote:On August 17 2010 05:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 17 2010 05:44 Surrealz wrote:
Please, just remove BigT from the web, and clean Idra's record. Idra is doing more for SC2 than 99.9999999% of this population, including the casters. If anything, IdrA's BM is hurting e-sports' attempts at becoming respected. Having the best westerner in the world act like this isn't good for the scene. I don't like BigT's style of stream either, but I still think his "service", if you can honestly call it that, is doing much more than Idra's "get paid to play good and """"""entertain"""""" with poor manners" (Notice I had to quote entertain, because his poor attitude is anything but entertaining and is in fact doing us all a disfavor by making us all look like a bunch of nerd-rage kids who don't deserve to get paid to actually entertain?) <-- and yes despite the fact that you guys all probably knew what I was talking about, it was just something that HAD to be pointed out because of how bad this really is. I'll be the first to say Idra is a great RTS player. I'll also be the first to say that he is a horrible human being. You just made me face-palm so hard. You think Idra is a horrible human being? Hitler was a horrible human being. Idra plays video games. the reason Idra bmed was probably because he is used to well run, professional events and there were so many unnecessary complications. also, a commentator bming a player? really? Instant ban for BigT in any well run organization. Not to mention that he has been caught cheating by collusion.
Like I said, I'm not a big fan of BigT.. both are pretty much evils that the rest of us have to live with...
I'm not the one comparing Idra to be Hitler, but I'm comparing him to the rest of the GREAT people that I've met playing this game... Idra is just on a whole other level of immaturity and I don't care for it one bit.
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I use to play wow and tourneys by ESL were complete shit, poorly dealt with problems and did not pay several players. Go Idra.
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On August 17 2010 06:35 rS.Sinatra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:27 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 06:24 rS.Sinatra wrote:On August 17 2010 04:33 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 04:31 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 04:29 travis wrote:
No, it wasn't "seen" that way, it's explicitly what was said. There was confusion among everyone involved, including some admins. IdrA's trip to Gamescom confused the situation further. If you fuck up, say that you fucked up. Man up. I edited my posts to show some quotes explicitly saying that they were banning Idra. There is no confusion about what was said. I am glad you guys went back on the decision but don't try to cover up what happened with lies. Hell, if an admin or 2 were idiots and messed up... just say that. Say what actually happened. Just don't try to lie to minimize it. Seriously I love the ESL, I love anyone who contributes to e-sports. But Integrity... please If you want to support things like Integrity on something like reversing a ban on a player that deserved it in the first place, how about supporting things like sportsmanship? Why was Idra even allowed to participate in ESL after what happened the first time around? This happens every time Idra competes in an event. Idra treats ESL like its a joke, the joke should be on him when he doesn't get to participate in prize tournaments and is banned from play. His sponsors should honestly pull out from backing his extremely poor attitude. Its one thing to earn your respect for your skill, its another to use that respect to think that you can say and do whatever the fuck you want to whomever the fuck you want. Being a nerd is no excuse for lack of respect or being socially inept. Learn the basics of being a REASONABLE human being should come before being a monkey that knows how to play professional RTS. Seriously, I love watching skill in action, I love quality replays that have tons of entertainment. But a little class... please I agree. If he breaks the rules he breaks the rules. What in particular are you talking about here? I sure as hell know what I am talking about, but I don't know what you are talking about nor how it's supposed to be any sort of direct reply to what I posted, as they seem to be two different topics altogether. Its not a direct reply on your words themselves or disagreeing with what you say. I just think you should be pointing out the bigger picture about what is good for esports. What is more of an important issue right now? Respect or Integrity? While it could be argued that both are equally as important, without respect for others, no sponsors are going to back events full of 12 year olds who love their video games, and after that, we won't need integrity because there won't be any money in this game
Well firstly that's an opinion, and not one I necessarily agree with. I've yet to actually see something from Idra that I thought would be bad for e-sports. Suggestions that someone is *gasp* a bad player really isn't as big of a deal as so many oversensitive kids seem to like to think it is.
Also, the point of this topic, of the post I was replying to, is not discussion of Idra and his behavior. It's discussion of ESL and their actions.
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On August 17 2010 06:36 MamiyaOtaru wrote:
Right, right Idra has said multiple time that BigT wasn't bothering him. He was bothering me though and I'm apparently not the only one. Good for Idra just ignoring "a-move zerg" but it's not something I care to see from a caster.
IdrA hasn't been allowing casters in previous events and was told last night specifically that we would. This issue of IdrA not allowing casters has little to do with BigT, as IdrA said himself before. IdrA made the issue about BigT after the fact.
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so you are fine with these guys penalizing players but not their own people\casters for inappropriate behavior?
edit: also not paying players
idra might have a bad rep but esl has a much worse one.
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so you are fine with these guys penalizing players but not their own people\casters for inappropriate behavior?
I didn't read all the rules but I don't think it says "casters may not call Idra the a-moving zerg" anywhere.
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On August 17 2010 06:36 ShaperofDreams wrote:
also, a commentator bming a player? really? Instant ban for BigT in any well run organization. Not to mention that he has been caught cheating by collusion.
I have no idea what's going on here, so a neutral voice coming in. Apparently what I've garnered is, a caster (in this case BigT) was bming idra in the games he was casting of him, IdrA refused to let BigT cast his games since not only was he just BMing him, but it was also causing him unnecessary lag. So the ESL bans him from the tournament.
Correct me where I'm wrong.
On August 17 2010 06:43 Argolis wrote:Show nested quote +so you are fine with these guys penalizing players but not their own people\casters for inappropriate behavior? I didn't read all the rules but I don't think it says "casters may not call Idra the a-moving zerg" anywhere.
I'm pretty sure. I mean, I'm PRETTY sure, that it does say somewhere that casters shouldn't be going around BMing professional players in matches that they don't like. This is a business, money is being transacted, and it's unprofessional to be bad mouthing someone.
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On August 17 2010 06:40 ShaperofDreams wrote:
so you are fine with these guys penalizing players but not their own people\casters for inappropriate behavior?
edit: also not paying players
idra might have a bad rep but esl has a much worse one.
ESL is working on investigating issues with everyone involved. The issue for tonight's matches was IdrA's involvement. That's the reason for the thread.
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On August 17 2010 06:25 catamorphist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:23 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people seem to like IdrA. There have been so many threads where he has been brought up and the same people just come defending him. I just cant see why anyone would ever side with him, given his record.
You'd think that people would know that he can get pretty furious over nothing, and that he constantly insults other players just for doing a certain build or playing a certain race in a video game.
It's not a coincidence that IdrA always gets into "trouble" with people. Why was it IdrA this time, and not one of the other 375 players? Probably has something to do with him having some kind of problem with his temper.
Some of us care more about watching great Starcraft than whether a player insults an admin or his opponent, or says a ritual "gg" after every game. If ESL is this close to banning a great player because he told someone the admins were idiots, then I have a problem with ESL, not IdrA. (The casting issue I find more compelling.)
If this was someone else, less known, nobody would care, and they would probably say that it was his own fault. But because the semi decent zerg (IdrA) broke the rules, he shouldnt be punished. What kind of twisted logic is that?
You dont make exceptions, rules are rules. It's simple, you break rule, you get consequence. Thats it. It's their tournament, they could say whatever they want to him and still ban him.
I dont know who this "bigT" is, but i'm all for anyone who insults IdrA
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On August 17 2010 06:25 Merikh wrote:
I'd also like to throw out there, I didn't see it come up. IdrA has been denying casters since the first qualifier cup. lol why is it just recently when IdrA doing well he gets the PP and not in the first 2 qualifier cups? (and the BM anyone remember the silver game? no PP there? lol) I just find it kind of funny.
Just a different question that I don't think someone has brought up.
This is actually a good point, although probably not in the way you intended. IdrA berating Silver for playing Terran really should have had some consequences other than getting him laughed at.
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EPT
