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On August 17 2010 06:15 KingRajesh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:02 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 05:53 Hapahauli wrote:
What exactly have you answered? All you have admitted to is "confusion" and "drama," when there's plenty of evidence that ESL staff botched the current situation pretty badly.
Most of us are looking for you to acknowledge the mistakes of your subordinates and casters, instead of dismissing it as mutual "confusion." What more do you want me to say? We made mistakes and we are doing our best to resolve them in the most proper way we can. I do think its unreasonable to put the entire burden of last night on National ESL's Admin staff. We are trying to help casters to cast matches so the fans can watch the games. Is that our responsibility, "no". But it does make the experience for all more enjoyable. As for the issues with the players reporting matches incorrectly and IdrA's travel, what more do you expect from any organization? There's always issues and drama, heck we are all human and love drama. But I'm confident in my staff and National ESL that we have done the best we can to correct and fix issues to limit their chances of recurring and new problems to arise. What more do we expect? Professionalism, Transparency, and Responsibility. Pointing the finger at IdrA is classic pointing out the splinter in his eye while ignoring the plank in yours. Jesus would be ashamed.
I love and fully echo the sentiments of this post.
I am all for answering the question "what more do you expect?"
But since the originally quoted post asks "what more do you want me to say?" I shall answer this for that poster as well:
"Here are the facts, chat logs, and circumstances mitigating the situations. We take responsibility for our fuck ups, and our fuck ups alone, which were the following: _____. We will work to make sure this does not happen again in the future by doing _____."
Nothing more. I don't personally want to hear anything besides that, especially not bullshit or fluff, i.e. "heck we are all human and love drama."
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What a drama. Jobless must be a really nice guy to agree to a rematch cause his opponent was a no show or maybe ESL over ride that, I'm not really clear without the facts? Most players would just force you to forfeit and move on. Anyhow that seemed to really peeve idra it seems amongst other things after playing his matches. I know I'd be kinda pissed off if I were put in that situation but I wouldn't make the situation worse by acting like an ass to the staff or players. I'd just play my matches and not bother with National ESL next time they have an event. Seems like he couldn't make the final anyway today since he is scheduled for another event.
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I also love how ESL is saying that Idra constantly gives them problems, meanwhile Idra is in Korea playing starcraft professionally, and has been in more tournaments over the years than i can count
So you are telling me that Day9 is lying and idra is a wretched person? Apparently Idra is doing this to every tournament hes ever been in? Nope, has hasn't. You are doing a terrible job with your tourney. Idra has been in tons and tons of starcraft tournaments, and we don't hear about this except when YOU SCREW UP.
Take the points back from Idra and apologize to him. It was a private channel. You are losing credibility fast.
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On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen  My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so)
Communism bro.
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I dont get why people seem to like IdrA. There have been so many threads where he has been brought up and the same people just come defending him. I just cant see why anyone would ever side with him, given his record.
You'd think that people would know that he can get pretty furious over nothing, and that he constantly insults other players just for doing a certain build or playing a certain race in a video game.
It's not a coincidence that IdrA always gets into "trouble" with people. Why was it IdrA this time, and not one of the other 375 players? Probably has something to do with him having some kind of problem with his temper.
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aers
United States1210 Posts
On August 17 2010 06:17 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:09 Argolis wrote:
ESL needs to admit they jumped the gun and screwed up last night. They did not manage their casters and admins properly and they let a situation that could have been quickly resolved get out of hand much too quickly. You can't come out and say a player is banned, change your mind, and hand out penalty points and pretend that the former never happened.
When a famous player like Idra deliberatly breaks the rules, refuses to allow a caster into his games and insult the staff. The propper actions must be taken, and I feel this is where the administative staff of this tournament has failed.
This is really an administrative (ESL) problem. They chose the "official" casters and they have to bare the responsability for the actions the casters takes. I'm not trying to defend BigT for his alleged actions, I am just saying that I feel we should not place the majority of the blame on him, on Idra for his alleged actions as well. Altho I feel everyone in this mess is responsible in some way. But at the end of the line, the people who are hosting the tournament (ESL) are the ones who we should be accepting responsability for the problems which arise in their tournament(s) and any controversy needs to be cleared up by them. IdrA was punished correctly. He was given PP for not allowing casters. Later a separate issue happened that had nothing to do with IdrA besides the fact that he was playing on the same side of the bracket.
So we all imagined the BM stuff? Can you clarify?
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On August 17 2010 04:33 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:31 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 04:29 travis wrote:
No, it wasn't "seen" that way, it's explicitly what was said. There was confusion among everyone involved, including some admins. IdrA's trip to Gamescom confused the situation further. If you fuck up, say that you fucked up. Man up. I edited my posts to show some quotes explicitly saying that they were banning Idra. There is no confusion about what was said. I am glad you guys went back on the decision but don't try to cover up what happened with lies. Hell, if an admin or 2 were idiots and messed up... just say that. Say what actually happened. Just don't try to lie to minimize it. Seriously I love the ESL, I love anyone who contributes to e-sports. But Integrity... please
If you want to support things like Integrity on something like reversing a ban on a player that deserved it in the first place, how about supporting things like sportsmanship?
Why was Idra even allowed to participate in ESL after what happened the first time around? This happens every time Idra competes in an event. Idra treats ESL like its a joke, the joke should be on him when he doesn't get to participate in prize tournaments and is banned from play. His sponsors should honestly pull out from backing his extremely poor attitude. Its one thing to earn your respect for your skill, its another to use that respect to think that you can say and do whatever the fuck you want to whomever the fuck you want.
Being a nerd is no excuse for lack of respect or being socially inept. Learn the basics of being a REASONABLE human being should come before being a monkey that knows how to play professional RTS.
Seriously, I love watching skill in action, I love quality replays that have tons of entertainment. But a little class... please
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On August 17 2010 06:23 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people seem to like IdrA. There have been so many threads where he has been brought up and the same people just come defending him. I just cant see why anyone would ever side with him, given his record.
You'd think that people would know that he can get pretty furious over nothing, and that he constantly insults other players just for doing a certain build or playing a certain race in a video game.
It's not a coincidence that IdrA always gets into "trouble" with people. Why was it IdrA this time, and not one of the other 375 players? Probably has something to do with him having some kind of problem with his temper.
Some of us care more about watching great Starcraft than whether a player insults an admin or his opponent, or says a ritual "gg" after every game. If ESL is this close to banning a great player because he told someone the admins were idiots, then I have a problem with ESL, not IdrA. (The casting issue I find more compelling.)
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I'd also like to throw out there, I didn't see it come up. IdrA has been denying casters since the first qualifier cup. lol why is it just recently when IdrA doing well he gets the PP and not in the first 2 qualifier cups? (and the BM anyone remember the silver game? no PP there? lol) I just find it kind of funny.
Just a different question that I don't think someone has brought up.
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On August 17 2010 06:13 CaptnIgnit wrote:
... seriously?
Like if the ESL had been monitoring the matches and caught the StrikeCro/Jobless debocale before IdrA had already finished playing?
Or wait, maybe if an ESL representative told IdrA that BigT would be casting his games live?
IdrA got angry because YOU fucked up. Anyone would have gotten angry in his situation. And then you made it worse throughout the night.
IdrA isn't completely without blame, because he did break your rules in certain ways, but 99% of the problems last night were because of your guy's actions.
We are monitoring the matches, the issue just wasn't brought to our attention properly until those previous two matches were played. It's easy to say that, but unless your running the event and watching how fast people are playing matches its easy for two rounds of an event to happen before a mistake can be totally investigated. Players are setting up, starting and finishing matches often times before previous issues can be resolved or even discussed. So while I wish there was a better way of resolving tickets in a faster time frame there's really no way to interrupt a player while he's already playing his match.
Actually our admin staff contacted IdrA before his second and third round matches. That's why he got PP. Still I don't think this should be an issue for National ESL staff. Players should WANT their matches casted. If I was IdrA I would want to build up my audience and get more people interested in me. But what do I know, I just ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006.
As for the IdrA issue, only one angry here is you. We did our best to resolve the issue and deal with it. IdrA's travel considerations obviously created a more difficult situation.
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On August 17 2010 06:24 rS.Sinatra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:33 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 04:31 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 04:29 travis wrote:
No, it wasn't "seen" that way, it's explicitly what was said. There was confusion among everyone involved, including some admins. IdrA's trip to Gamescom confused the situation further. If you fuck up, say that you fucked up. Man up. I edited my posts to show some quotes explicitly saying that they were banning Idra. There is no confusion about what was said. I am glad you guys went back on the decision but don't try to cover up what happened with lies. Hell, if an admin or 2 were idiots and messed up... just say that. Say what actually happened. Just don't try to lie to minimize it. Seriously I love the ESL, I love anyone who contributes to e-sports. But Integrity... please If you want to support things like Integrity on something like reversing a ban on a player that deserved it in the first place, how about supporting things like sportsmanship? Why was Idra even allowed to participate in ESL after what happened the first time around? This happens every time Idra competes in an event. Idra treats ESL like its a joke, the joke should be on him when he doesn't get to participate in prize tournaments and is banned from play. His sponsors should honestly pull out from backing his extremely poor attitude. Its one thing to earn your respect for your skill, its another to use that respect to think that you can say and do whatever the fuck you want to whomever the fuck you want. Being a nerd is no excuse for lack of respect or being socially inept. Learn the basics of being a REASONABLE human being should come before being a monkey that knows how to play professional RTS. Seriously, I love watching skill in action, I love quality replays that have tons of entertainment. But a little class... please
I agree. If he breaks the rules he breaks the rules. What in particular are you talking about here? I sure as hell know what I am talking about, but I don't know what you are talking about nor how it's supposed to be any sort of direct reply to what I posted, as they seem to be two different topics altogether.
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On August 17 2010 04:58 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:44 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
If they do not state clearly which comments warranted the additional points it will still seem as if they're just trying to cover their asses from the initial comments posted by their admins which travis quoted in the last page. Post this on the other thread related to the same issue.... Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:45 koshka wrote:
[...flaming huh? right....
just tell us please
if you don't do it THAT is creating a bigger issue of the situation because you don't look very good if you are not telling the whole story. just seems a bit shady Honestly you can think its shady or not, but I'd rather have you yelling at us to be "transparent" then creating flame wars between pro and anti-IdrA fans over what is said. The reality is that just like any sport when a person acts out of line they are dealt with in manner related to their behavior. The NBA doesn't tell the press what a player said in a basketball game when he gets a Technical Foul. When a player gets a yellow or red card in FIFA they don't even tell you what it was for. We are being transparent but also keeping privacy for the obvious necessary reasons.
please link us to the rule that states we are not allowed to trash talk.
ty.
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On August 17 2010 06:26 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:13 CaptnIgnit wrote:
... seriously?
Like if the ESL had been monitoring the matches and caught the StrikeCro/Jobless debocale before IdrA had already finished playing?
Or wait, maybe if an ESL representative told IdrA that BigT would be casting his games live?
IdrA got angry because YOU fucked up. Anyone would have gotten angry in his situation. And then you made it worse throughout the night.
IdrA isn't completely without blame, because he did break your rules in certain ways, but 99% of the problems last night were because of your guy's actions. We are monitoring the matches, the issue just wasn't brought to our attention properly until those previous two matches were played. It's easy to say that, but unless your running the event and watching how fast people are playing matches its easy for two rounds of an event to happen before a mistake can be totally investigated. Players are setting up, starting and finishing matches often times before previous issues can be resolved or even discussed. So while I wish there was a better way of resolving tickets in a faster time frame there's really no way to interrupt a player while he's already playing his match. Actually our admin staff contacted IdrA before his second and third round matches. That's why he got PP. Still I don't think this should be an issue for National ESL staff. Players should WANT their matches casted. If I was IdrA I would want to build up my audience and get more people interested in me. But what do I know, I just ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006.As for the IdrA issue, only one angry here is you. We did our best to resolve the issue and deal with it. IdrA's travel considerations obviously created a more difficult situation.
Bold part: I can see why IdrA would rage at admins if they all acted as pompous and elitist as you, Midway.
Running a website, being a progamer.
Not the same thing. So as to your question...what do you know? Nothing, apparently. Running a website for exposure and an audience is not the same as being a high-level professional gamer.
Also, as for the IdrA issue, "only one angry" is not the guy you quoted. Do you not see the 11 pages of replies..?
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On August 17 2010 06:26 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:13 CaptnIgnit wrote:
... seriously?
Like if the ESL had been monitoring the matches and caught the StrikeCro/Jobless debocale before IdrA had already finished playing?
Or wait, maybe if an ESL representative told IdrA that BigT would be casting his games live?
IdrA got angry because YOU fucked up. Anyone would have gotten angry in his situation. And then you made it worse throughout the night.
IdrA isn't completely without blame, because he did break your rules in certain ways, but 99% of the problems last night were because of your guy's actions. We are monitoring the matches, the issue just wasn't brought to our attention properly until those previous two matches were played. It's easy to say that, but unless your running the event and watching how fast people are playing matches its easy for two rounds of an event to happen before a mistake can be totally investigated. Players are setting up, starting and finishing matches often times before previous issues can be resolved or even discussed. So while I wish there was a better way of resolving tickets in a faster time frame there's really no way to interrupt a player while he's already playing his match. Actually our admin staff contacted IdrA before his second and third round matches. That's why he got PP. Still I don't think this should be an issue for National ESL staff. Players should WANT their matches casted. If I was IdrA I would want to build up my audience and get more people interested in me. But what do I know, I just ran the largest eSports website from 2002-2006.As for the IdrA issue, only one angry here is you. We did our best to resolve the issue and deal with it. IdrA's travel considerations obviously created a more difficult situation.
No one is going to be interested in him if he loses games due to lag just for the sake of having the likes of BigT casting it.
And again, ESL is not the greatest thing ever. Your staff is rude, and this is not the first I have heard or experienced this before. ESL is not god's gift to esports. You aren't the old CPL.
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On August 17 2010 06:25 catamorphist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 06:23 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people seem to like IdrA. There have been so many threads where he has been brought up and the same people just come defending him. I just cant see why anyone would ever side with him, given his record.
You'd think that people would know that he can get pretty furious over nothing, and that he constantly insults other players just for doing a certain build or playing a certain race in a video game.
It's not a coincidence that IdrA always gets into "trouble" with people. Why was it IdrA this time, and not one of the other 375 players? Probably has something to do with him having some kind of problem with his temper.
Some of us care more about watching great Starcraft than whether a player insults an admin or his opponent, or says a ritual "gg" after every game. If ESL is this close to banning a great player because he told someone the admins were idiots, then I have a problem with ESL, not IdrA. (The casting issue I find more compelling.)
This is definately a way you can see the whole issue, but is this the good way to promote sc2 ? I leave the question to you. (aka, my personal benefit of watching good games vs the benefit of the whole sport growing)
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On August 17 2010 06:28 virgozero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:58 midway wrote:On August 17 2010 04:44 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
If they do not state clearly which comments warranted the additional points it will still seem as if they're just trying to cover their asses from the initial comments posted by their admins which travis quoted in the last page. Post this on the other thread related to the same issue.... On August 17 2010 04:45 koshka wrote:
[...flaming huh? right....
just tell us please
if you don't do it THAT is creating a bigger issue of the situation because you don't look very good if you are not telling the whole story. just seems a bit shady Honestly you can think its shady or not, but I'd rather have you yelling at us to be "transparent" then creating flame wars between pro and anti-IdrA fans over what is said. The reality is that just like any sport when a person acts out of line they are dealt with in manner related to their behavior. The NBA doesn't tell the press what a player said in a basketball game when he gets a Technical Foul. When a player gets a yellow or red card in FIFA they don't even tell you what it was for. We are being transparent but also keeping privacy for the obvious necessary reasons. please link us to the rule that states we are not allowed to trash talk. ty.
http://www.nationalesl.com/us/sc2/1on1/regular_season_cup_1/rules/
Scroll down to behavior
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On August 17 2010 05:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:44 Surrealz wrote:
Please, just remove BigT from the web, and clean Idra's record. Idra is doing more for SC2 than 99.9999999% of this population, including the casters. If anything, IdrA's BM is hurting e-sports' attempts at becoming respected. Having the best westerner in the world act like this isn't good for the scene.
I don't like BigT's style of stream either, but I still think his "service", if you can honestly call it that, is doing much more than Idra's "get paid to play good and """"""entertain"""""" with poor manners"
(Notice I had to quote entertain, because his poor attitude is anything but entertaining and is in fact doing us all a disfavor by making us all look like a bunch of nerd-rage kids who don't deserve to get paid to actually entertain?) <-- and yes despite the fact that you guys all probably knew what I was talking about, it was just something that HAD to be pointed out because of how bad this really is.
I'll be the first to say Idra is a great RTS player. I'll also be the first to say that he is a horrible human being.
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Some of you really need to let it go. The issue is solved, there were mistakes, they were admited to, the situation is resolved. All parties will be more wary in the future. I dont really think theres much more room left for disscussion.
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ok so the professional players aren't allowed to trash talk crappy admins, but its PERFECTLY FINE for crappy casters to trash talk professional players.
yup sounds about right.
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So back to my question that was never answered from a prior post. Was it jobless that decided to rematch or was esl admins decision? Also why not be more strict about the no show rule in the future to avoid drama like this?
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EPT
