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I saw a few people link this site which shows, in general, the Korean sentiment behind race balance right now. Since only a few people can actually read and interpret what's said on this page, I went ahead and translated it so everyone can get an idea of what Koreans actually think about race balance. I hope this'll keep people from the "Zerg is OP in Korea" arguments in balance threads. I tried to keep the formatting relatively the same to the original page so you can get an idea of which phrase is which.
(Source)
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/jingjing/
If we can't avoid balance QQ posts, let's just let loose and argue our hearts out.
A special service for those QQers out there - XP QQ RANKING!
Whew~ I wonder what race's QQ will be on the forums today?
Don't really want to see QQ posts, but do want to see which race is QQing...
OH! I'll just look at the XP QQ RANKING! (wtf 80s commercial catch)
Once a day, vote for the one race you want to QQ about!
According to the amount of QQ from each race, a QQ graph is generated.
If every day we compile the QQ together, in a few months or a few years, we'll be able to understand the QQ of today.
"I dunno man. In SC2 Beta protoss was the weakest"
"Yeah right. Right now platinum is full of protoss"
"Check out the XP QQ Ranking. There was a lot of toss QQ before"
"Holy shit! You're right!"
(Like this, maybe we'll be able to see the balance trends of the past?)
Dear QQers, let's just argue our points by generating this graph.
Q. Pick the race you want to QQ about today and hit vote!
How to interpret the graph
RED = ZERG
GREEN = TERRAN
BLUE = PROTOSS
PURPLE = NOTHING (no complaints about any race at the current time)
EDIT:
The note on 9-16 where the Zerg bar jumps from 57% to 73% mentions that on the 16th, Idra was eliminated from the GSL and jookToJung lost a game where he was in an advantageous position.
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wow is it on the last patch the complains for zerg "jumps"?
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Sweden951 Posts
aside from zerg imbalance arguments, this is a really good idea to keep baseless claims in check for future forum arguments  ) grealy appretiated :D
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And the 'QQ' is for the race you play? Well that's kinda 1-dimensional, considering the only strong complaint is matchup specific, and the only QQ coming from me would be things to effect that particular match-up, not terran or zerg in particular.
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On August 15 2010 18:48 bumatlarge wrote:
And the 'QQ' is for the race you play? Well that's kinda 1-dimensional, considering the only strong complaint is matchup specific, and the only QQ coming from me would be things to effect that particular match-up, not terran or zerg in particular.
I couldnt understand anything, since they keep using "QQ" over and over like its WoW
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This was already posted a long time ago. Its the same 350 people who actually use that poll, and poll sample is small.
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Interesting chart actually. Doesn't bring anything too new to the table but still
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So everyone is complaining about Zerg because they're broken, ok. Here in the U.S., as well.
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On August 15 2010 18:51 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 18:48 bumatlarge wrote:
And the 'QQ' is for the race you play? Well that's kinda 1-dimensional, considering the only strong complaint is matchup specific, and the only QQ coming from me would be things to effect that particular match-up, not terran or zerg in particular. I couldnt understand anything, since they keep using "QQ" over and over like its WoW
Jingjing translates almost literally into QQ. I decided to preserve the feel of the post by leaving it as QQ instead of translating it to something less annoying.
I think it's interesting that the most votes came when the three races seemed to be relatively balanced based on peoples' complaints. If you look at 05/17-05/28 you find that the three races are in a rough equilibrium with the purple bar averaging the highest of any stage that's logged. Anyone remember what patch was in effect during this time period ?
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Thanks for this, a ton. So many players defending the balance with arguments that Koreans feel it's fair. It isnt, and this confirms it. Zerg needs help, and apparently 60% of players who voted in korea feel so.
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While it is very interesting(And hopefully gets rid of the "KOREAN ZERGS ARE DOING FINE!!!" thing), it really is a pretty small sample size.
Regardless I'm gonna check up on it every now and again.
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Thank god, I don't know how many times I've had to refer to this website in other threads.
A+
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"QQ" is more a general whine/complaint.. Does this mean that players complain about the race being weak or imbalanced?
eg. QQing about zerg
1)'Zerg is imbal'
2)'Zerg is terrible and needs a buff'
that poll needs to be better done imo.
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On August 15 2010 20:36 ddengster wrote:
"QQ" is more a general whine/complaint.. Does this mean that players complain about the race being weak or imbalanced?
eg. QQing about zerg
1)'Zerg is imbal'
2)'Zerg is terrible and needs a buff'
that poll needs to be better done imo.
Well I suppose it could go both ways but context implies that it's for "Zerg is terrible and needs a buff"
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On August 15 2010 20:36 ddengster wrote:
"QQ" is more a general whine/complaint.. Does this mean that players complain about the race being weak or imbalanced?
eg. QQing about zerg
1)'Zerg is imbal'
2)'Zerg is terrible and needs a buff'
that poll needs to be better done imo.
종족이 징징 거리다
~이 [participle points to something]
Thus this could only mean some race is QQing,
not 'QQing about some race' <- Good ol' ambigious English.
Altaic languages have participles to make sentences precise.
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On August 15 2010 21:45 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 20:36 ddengster wrote:
"QQ" is more a general whine/complaint.. Does this mean that players complain about the race being weak or imbalanced?
eg. QQing about zerg
1)'Zerg is imbal'
2)'Zerg is terrible and needs a buff'
that poll needs to be better done imo. 종족 이 징징 거리다 ~이 [participle points to something] Thus this could only mean some race is QQing, not 'QQing about some race' <- Good ol' ambigious English. Altaic languages have participles to make sentences precise.
i think the point is to translate the idea, rather than nitpicking on the minor mistakes.. and thread starter is a korean..
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One easy way for foreigners to see the meaning is to look what happened right after patch 12 (2010-05-14) - the infamous roach nerf, which is still being cried about --> a major raise in the Zerg votes. This was the highest Zerg crying vote... until 2010-08-14. Now it is surpassed.
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On August 15 2010 21:50 kaleidoscope wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 21:45 ooni wrote:On August 15 2010 20:36 ddengster wrote:
"QQ" is more a general whine/complaint.. Does this mean that players complain about the race being weak or imbalanced?
eg. QQing about zerg
1)'Zerg is imbal'
2)'Zerg is terrible and needs a buff'
that poll needs to be better done imo. 종족 이 징징 거리다 ~이 [participle points to something] Thus this could only mean some race is QQing, not 'QQing about some race' <- Good ol' ambigious English. Altaic languages have participles to make sentences precise. i think the point is to translate the idea, rather than nitpicking on the minor mistakes.. and thread starter is a korean..
I wasn't nitpicking, I was explaining to ddengster the purpose of the poll isn't ambigious. O_O ha? OP's translation is fine.
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[irony]
Korean zerg just need to learn how to play! Nydus, drops, ultra, broodlords...
[/irony]
Great post. Seems like there is somewhat of a global consensus that something needs to be done with zerg.
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Sweden33719 Posts
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Doh - figures someone would have already done it...
Anyone remember what was different balance-wise in early May?
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Bumping this to coincide with Fruitseller complaining thread to see how Koreans feel about balance in general.
The note on 9-16 where the Zerg bar jumps from 57% to 73% mentions that on the 16th, Idra was eliminated from the GSL and jookToJung lost a game where he was in an advantageous position.
Looks as though after the patch, the numbers fell back to how they were before 9-16. But still a lot of people in Korea crying about Zerg. I wonder what it'll look like if Check and Cool are eliminated from the GSL in the ro16?
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"QQ" has to be the worst meme yet...
Especially since "QQ" is the name of one of the largest IM services in the world. qq.com.cn
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On August 16 2010 01:22 deverlight wrote:
Doh - figures someone would have already done it...
Anyone remember what was different balance-wise in early May?
roach was 1 supply
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On August 15 2010 19:33 deverlight wrote:
I think it's interesting that the most votes came when the three races seemed to be relatively balanced based on peoples' complaints. If you look at 05/17-05/28 you find that the three races are in a rough equilibrium with the purple bar averaging the highest of any stage that's logged. Anyone remember what patch was in effect during this time period ?
According to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_history it's patch 12. You can kind of tell by the few days earlier (when the patch was released) the zerg bar jumps through the roof over the roach 2 supply.
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Wow thats really funny and accurate as it shows the trends changing as patches/time go on.
Whats funny is it hit a few areas of harmony across all the races and then zerg started to sprint.
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Well at least there's one place zerg is dominating.
Anyways I hope this site stays around for a long time so we can go back to it and say stuff like "remember when people used to whine that zerg is underpowered?"
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Yeah I'm surprised to find the trends to be pretty much how they've been on TL. I don't really see anything that would suggest that balance was ever seen in a different light in Korea.
I think the trend for the next few days is going to depend largely on the performance of FruitSeller and CheckPrime in the GSL...
Looks like noone in Korea really buys that 1.1 patch has made things even.
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Haha... as soon as the open beta started, we see a huge influx of Zerg QQ. I honestly expected the QQ to be higher after patch 13, but seems like they were mad QQ'ing the whole time.
Oh, and LOL @ the section after Idra loses and JooktoJung loses. xP
People are funny
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"Zerg was OP in Korea"
Artosis was right according to his MYM article late in the beta.
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Surprisingly Zerg bar has gone up even after
+ Show Spoiler +Cool beats oGsTOP. Possibly because of the post-game analysis pointing out that Cool pretty much did a defensive/economic all-in in order to come back in game 3.
I wonder how the GSL ro16 day 2 results are going to affect the next few days.
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GSL ro8 spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
Looks like in pure volume, Zerg players haven't stopped complaining. Looks like ever since Tester was eliminated, Protoss players have come up in arms though.
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LOL at the red bars. so, pro koreans cant even change what blizzard have in mind?
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Zerg going towards balance but protoss is getting more votes as we speak
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I thought GREEN was for PROTOSS, not terran. WTF kind of crazy anarchy do we live in?
I'm suprized there is so much protoss QQ though, because I hear in Korea it's considered even stronger than terran (at least vs zerg). I guess theTvP issues are contributing to it though.
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United States7481 Posts
bumping for an unusual result today...
highest amount of QQ is for Protoss, then NOBODY, then Terran, and finally, Zerg.
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Well if FruitDealer says it's imba it must be... Right?
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so much QQ for toss lately.
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I don't get the graph quite. Do people vote on a race because they feel they are TOO good or not good enough?
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United States7481 Posts
not good enough. they vote for the race they think deserves to complain
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BUMP !
So i checked this poll again after 1.2 and finding out that my vrs suck eggs now and wanted to see what impact that would have. Came back quite surprised.
Have you guys noticed that the "nothing to complain about" Option is at its highest... ever ? And that the QQ is closer together.
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Yeah nice. The "No" bar has gone up tremendously.
In the current environment, I think things are fairly balanced right now. As always there's room for improvements, but I don't think right now there's any major problems.
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just wanted to bump this because I think it's VERY interesting that much more QQ about protoss than QQ about terran....although here some seem to think that PvZ is still better for protoss than TvZ is for zerg
also the purple bar (= balance) has been going down in the last few days steadily
do you think this is a general tendency that reflects balance, or are protoss just big QQers?
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On October 26 2010 22:06 sleepingdog wrote:
just wanted to bump this because I think it's VERY interesting that much more QQ about protoss than QQ about terran....although here some seem to think that PvZ is still better for protoss than TvZ is for zerg
also the purple bar (= balance) has been going down in the last few days steadily
do you think this is a general tendency that reflects balance, or are protoss just big QQers?
Wait, what? T is at 50.5% and P is at 27%, right? or is korea weird and they changed their colors for no reason...
If thats true, that Koreans think P is weakest race... Koreans are nubs. PvT and PvZ are considered the most balanced matchups, if not P favored (PvT). I think a bunch of noob Ps 4 gate stopped working vZ b/c of roach buff, so now they are all bitching.
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I'm sure that chart will look a little different tomorrow after + Show Spoiler +mvp, Iron and Maka all went out to Zergs in GSL today.
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On October 26 2010 22:12 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 22:06 sleepingdog wrote:
just wanted to bump this because I think it's VERY interesting that much more QQ about protoss than QQ about terran....although here some seem to think that PvZ is still better for protoss than TvZ is for zerg
also the purple bar (= balance) has been going down in the last few days steadily
do you think this is a general tendency that reflects balance, or are protoss just big QQers? Wait, what? T is at 50.5% and P is at 27%, right? or is korea weird and they changed their colors for no reason...
From OP:
GREEN = TERRAN
BLUE = PROTOSS
So yep. Wonder what will happen after todays GSL...
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On October 26 2010 22:12 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 22:06 sleepingdog wrote:
just wanted to bump this because I think it's VERY interesting that much more QQ about protoss than QQ about terran....although here some seem to think that PvZ is still better for protoss than TvZ is for zerg
also the purple bar (= balance) has been going down in the last few days steadily
do you think this is a general tendency that reflects balance, or are protoss just big QQers? Wait, what? T is at 50.5% and P is at 27%, right? or is korea weird and they changed their colors for no reason... If thats true, that Koreans think P is weakest race... Koreans are nubs. PvT and PvZ are considered the most balanced matchups, if not P favored (PvT). I think a bunch of noob Ps 4 gate stopped working vZ b/c of roach buff, so now they are all bitching.
GSL 1 was won by a Zerg with 3 Terran in the top 4 and Protoss is doing awful in GSL 2 so far.
It's not hard to imagine why Koreans think Protoss is the weakest race right now.
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On October 26 2010 22:14 cuppatea wrote:I'm sure that chart will look a little different tomorrow + Show Spoiler +after mvp, Iron and Maka all went out to Zergs in GSL today .
Christ, spoiler tags please! Games aint even finished yet.
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On October 26 2010 22:25 DND_Enkil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 22:14 cuppatea wrote:I'm sure that chart will look a little different tomorrow + Show Spoiler +after mvp, Iron and Maka all went out to Zergs in GSL today . Christ, spoiler tags please! Games aint even finished yet.
Sorry, edited.
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On October 26 2010 22:24 cuppatea wrote:
It's not hard to imagine why Koreans think Protoss is the weakest race right now.
well yeah, this is obvious
what I'm curious about is, if anyone (who maybe has more insight into the korean scene) thinks this reflects how the matchups are developing balance-wise on the high level in the recent patches, or if (korean) protoss players just like to QQ right now
simply because earlier the graph reflected the situation always quite accurately...with terran UP in beta and zerg UP after release; now it seems strange to think that protoss is UP, certainly not the case imo
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so if i understand this correct right now 75% of the koreans think protoss is the worst race?
seems about right
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I dislike it, because it seems heavily GSL biased.
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On November 02 2010 03:52 TheDna wrote:
I dislike it, because it seems heavily GSL biased.
Just like any other balance discussions...
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It is clear that Protoss are at a huge disadvantage. I blame the fact that the units are most expensive and few, so it's a gamble at the highest level. If you go VR, you better make it work, or you are 90% dead. If you go DTs, you better get it right, or you are most likely dead.
If we said before that terran can do multiple mistakes and can still win, while the other races cannot afford that, it is time to say this about Protoss, I feel. DT is quite difficult to get, warp prism, DT, VR all are almost always a huge gamble. If you get it to work, it seems protoss is even overpowered, because you win thanks to very few units. But protoss cannot advance far in a tournament by taking so much risks.
I refuse to accept that there are few good protoss players. We didn't see Kyrix, Zenio, Nestea or TheWind last GSL either, look at them, it turns out they are great players. Players like Tester, Inca, oGsMC and NEXGenius are all good, but they cannot keep taking risks and getting it right every time.
My suggest is that DTs have to be less troublesome to get, or otherwise it is never a viable option at a high level tournament. Carrier is the same. Archons aren't as good as in SC:BW, which in turn makes HTs not as good as in SC:BW, besides the changes to HTs anyways. So we have about 3-4 very high level units that are basically useless. Colossi, immortals etc. are good, but Protoss need more options: DTs, carriers, archons...
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Man, it's hit the 3rd day in a row of over 70% for one race (Protoss). Last time this happened was the week before 1.1 for Zerg. Wonder if that next patch (probably hitting next week while GSL is off and after MLG) is going to have any P changes/buffs. If not, I'd expect that to stay high at least until next GSL starts.
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Wow, Toss rightfully (IMO) getting complained about the most. wp, playxp
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On November 04 2010 05:15 Phenrei wrote:
Man, it's hit the 3rd day in a row of over 70% for one race (Protoss). Last time this happened was the week before 1.1 for Zerg. Wonder if that next patch (probably hitting next week while GSL is off and after MLG) is going to have any P changes/buffs. If not, I'd expect that to stay high at least until next GSL starts.
Probably not untill after GSL finals will there be any patch. As protoss is not involved, and they are probably going to make slight changes to all races, not just protoss. They dont want to do it right before the finals.
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I contributed to the Toss vote.
I'm not so much after balance fixes, I just want some more flair added to my race. It's getting so dull it's depressing.
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Wow, this is really a cool concept by playxp, its funny how the trends form and fade eventually.
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Interesting how high Toss is right now. It's at the same level as Zerg was way back when.
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its was sort of predicted as how protoss was getting nerfed patch after patch and didn't blizzard say they were going to nerf psi storm too?
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They didn't outright say psi storm was going to be nerfed, just that it was getting looked at. They said the same thing with stim. I am surprised how protoss has begun to stabilize around that 70% mark. I guess it makes a lot of sense though, seeing the tournament results since 1.1.2 and the fact that Koreans really haven't had a protoss to rally behind yet.
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I wouldn't mind a storm change as you hardly get to use it when you have to go robo bay first every time. As long as they fix PvT early-mid game as well.
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people srsly think toss is op?? wow....
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On November 13 2010 13:20 Eminent Rising wrote:
people srsly think toss is op?? wow....
The poll is asking which race is the most underpowered not overpowered.
You should try re-reading the first post.
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Wow. these results are actually kind of surprising. As a Zerg i still find Protoss really tough to beat. Yet i roll over most Terrans. I figured Terrans, especially with the recent nerfs, would be ahead in the chart.
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80%... lol
currently toss is doing even worse than zerg did back in the good old days
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I love people who quote that thinking they are proving a point. Blizzard has said repeatedly multiple times, that those numbers are worthless. Thats why we see them. Just shut up and stop posting especially if you have nothing meaningful to add.
On a more personal note:
You just suck, thats why you can't beat P.
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I have no interest in balance discussions for the most part, but I think it's important that this point is clarified. When people argue about balance, they're usually arguing whether the game is balanced at the highest level. Battle.net stats don't really speak to that, tournament results do.
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well look on kespa rankings from bw there were periods where one race dominated top10 for quiet some time and yet this game is considered as most balanced rts ever
.
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stop posting you make my IQ slip, the numbers are fairly good ~50% range because of the matchmaking system which pins players of the same caliber with each other resulting in a "fairer" battle.
For example, let's say zerg gives +1, terran gives +2, and protoss +0.
If player A is of level 8, he will get matched with a player zerg of level 7(+1) = 8,
So that data does absolutely nothing but give us an overview of how well the matchmaking system is working and if there is any grossly mismatched percentages even with the system in place, then we are certain there is an issue with the system/race.
Blindly linking and posing a rhetorical question makes you look like an idiot and by no means contributes to the topic at hand.
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Oh my Protoss QQers... They are even worse than Zerg QQers back in the patch 1.03. But, I still zerg qq all the way. It has no reason. I just do that in my free time and still win my games.
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Hilarious seeing Protoss votes skyrocket following GSL 3 qualifiers xD
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ROFLMAO 73% I think protoss qq blew up cos sangho tester and inca (and bleach  ) all failed to qualify even though they looked like solid players. Ok maybe not bleach but he was consistent
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Haha yeah I guess every Protoss (myself included) was still a bit optimistical about the GSL3, because people were claiming that a Protoss would definitely win now as there is nothing wrong with Protoss, not at all, no. At the very least they should have a nice number of qualifiers and they'll finally get atleast more than 1 player in the Ro8 and everything will be fine and dandy right?
I wonder if it'll reach 90% when we have no Protoss in the Ro8 this time.
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I love how you can see the qq trends. Terran in the beginning, Zerg afterwards, and now Protoss.
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Obviously Random is next.
I'm only mostly joking about that, nothing would be unexpected at this point in terms of QQ. Must mean that the game is perfectly balanced
That or perfectly random.
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Protoss only 2% away from topping the peak zerg QQing :O
Still nowhere near the amount of forum QQing that zergs managed in their prime though.
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Half of those votes are mine.
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On November 18 2010 08:36 Redmark wrote:Obviously Random is next. I'm only mostly joking about that, nothing would be unexpected at this point in terms of QQ. Must mean that the game is perfectly balanced That or perfectly random.
The 4th isn't random, it's "no QQ" (aka game feels balanced). It was pushing towards that then P started slipping (or people stared noticing P's performance).
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This is pretty sweet stuff. Look at the zerg QQ before 1.1, lol.
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Looks like the zerg QQ is back. Just in time for 1.2 to come out
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i would like if teamliquid also would make one huge balance-qq-thread and not allow any balance comments in the other threads. would greatly improve this forum where in EVERY thread at one point balance is discussed.
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Hm, looks like there's no button for me.
I QQ on zergs QQing.
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oh wow, i just realized this QQ ranking history corresponds exactly with when i switched races during beta from protoss -> zerg -> terran.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:12 TehForce wrote:
i would like if teamliquid also would make one huge balance-qq-thread and not allow any balance comments in the other threads. would greatly improve this forum where in EVERY thread at one point balance is discussed.
Most general SC2 threads are okay, but the LR threads of most tournaments, GSL especially, are just absolutely horrendous. What used to be a place for people to report on what's happening in games for those who can't stream the games has now degraded to a cesspool of shit, a place for people to complain about everything and anything a player does. What used to be "OMG! BBS VS 2 GATE!" has turned into "FUCK TERRAN, 2 RAX SO CHEESY, LAME SHIT TERRAN. NERF PLZ".
Instead of people watching the games and enjoying the games, all we see nowadays are people complaining about how the game is broken, etc. Yeah, instead of blaming that player for playing poorly, they blame the other race for being overpowered or the other player for doing "cheesy shit".
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On December 07 2010 05:43 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:12 TehForce wrote:
i would like if teamliquid also would make one huge balance-qq-thread and not allow any balance comments in the other threads. would greatly improve this forum where in EVERY thread at one point balance is discussed. Most general SC2 threads are okay, but the LR threads of most tournaments, GSL especially, are just absolutely horrendous. What used to be a place for people to report on what's happening in games for those who can't stream the games has now degraded to a cesspool of shit, a place for people to complain about everything and anything a player does. What used to be "OMG! BBS VS 2 GATE!" has turned into "FUCK TERRAN, 2 RAX SO CHEESY, LAME SHIT TERRAN. NERF PLZ". Instead of people watching the games and enjoying the games, all we see nowadays are people complaining about how the game is broken, etc. Yeah, instead of blaming that player for playing poorly, they blame the other race for being overpowered or the other player for doing "cheesy shit".
This is so true, and it is so depressing how badly the community has degenerated since BW 
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For the first time in the history of the poll, "nothing" has won the vote on Monday the 20th with 35% of the votes! Go "nothing!"
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On December 21 2010 00:06 Teddyman wrote:
For the first time in the history of the poll, "nothing" has won the vote on Monday the 20th with 35% of the votes! Go "nothing!"
Funny thing is that "nothing" wins right before Blizz releases a major patch - "nothing" will be back at their pitifuly 1-5% in no time haha
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On December 21 2010 01:27 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 00:06 Teddyman wrote:
For the first time in the history of the poll, "nothing" has won the vote on Monday the 20th with 35% of the votes! Go "nothing!" Funny thing is that "nothing" wins right before Blizz releases a major patch - "nothing" will be back at their pitifuly 1-5% in no time haha
The problem (among others) with blizzard patching is they are reacting to the game state that's about a month old.
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Guys! Today is the least QQ day in the history of Starcraft 2! Wooooo!
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On December 21 2010 02:10 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:27 sleepingdog wrote:On December 21 2010 00:06 Teddyman wrote:
For the first time in the history of the poll, "nothing" has won the vote on Monday the 20th with 35% of the votes! Go "nothing!" Funny thing is that "nothing" wins right before Blizz releases a major patch - "nothing" will be back at their pitifuly 1-5% in no time haha The problem (among others) with blizzard patching is they are reacting to the game state that's about a month old.
We should just spam Blizzard so that they won't be patching the game balance again. Bug fixes and other improvements are good. Just don't let them touch the balance. Players and mapmakers can fix them over time.
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On December 21 2010 02:13 SharkSpider wrote:
Guys! Today is the least QQ day in the history of Starcraft 2! Wooooo!
We need to make this a holiday.
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On December 21 2010 02:17 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 02:13 SharkSpider wrote:
Guys! Today is the least QQ day in the history of Starcraft 2! Wooooo! We need to make this a holiday.
it just has the least votes so far, the QQ will return
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12/21: 42.2 % think the game is balanced.
So, it's even more balanced today (or tomorrow, depending on timezones)
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On December 07 2010 05:43 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:12 TehForce wrote:
i would like if teamliquid also would make one huge balance-qq-thread and not allow any balance comments in the other threads. would greatly improve this forum where in EVERY thread at one point balance is discussed. Most general SC2 threads are okay, but the LR threads of most tournaments, GSL especially, are just absolutely horrendous. What used to be a place for people to report on what's happening in games for those who can't stream the games has now degraded to a cesspool of shit, a place for people to complain about everything and anything a player does. What used to be "OMG! BBS VS 2 GATE!" has turned into "FUCK TERRAN, 2 RAX SO CHEESY, LAME SHIT TERRAN. NERF PLZ". Instead of people watching the games and enjoying the games, all we see nowadays are people complaining about how the game is broken, etc. Yeah, instead of blaming that player for playing poorly, they blame the other race for being overpowered or the other player for doing "cheesy shit".
This ><
With the PL or OSL just before GSL I can follow both.
Following BW is like having a party with smart and funny people, then following GSL is like being the sole adult in a stadium filled with crying babies, I don't know if it's because of WOW, but the sc2 community (even the sc2 TL community) has the worse "fan"base of anything I know. Each time someone win a game there is between 2-50 pages of balance QQ (50 if a terran wins, 2 if a zerg wins, inbetween if a P wins) Since you have to forget about balance to improve in this game, that means the people with the worse skill are the more vocal, hence my proposition of permabaning every poster who whines in a LR thread. They'll only post shit in other sections anyway.
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On December 07 2010 05:43 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:12 TehForce wrote:
i would like if teamliquid also would make one huge balance-qq-thread and not allow any balance comments in the other threads. would greatly improve this forum where in EVERY thread at one point balance is discussed. Most general SC2 threads are okay, but the LR threads of most tournaments, GSL especially, are just absolutely horrendous. What used to be a place for people to report on what's happening in games for those who can't stream the games has now degraded to a cesspool of shit, a place for people to complain about everything and anything a player does. What used to be "OMG! BBS VS 2 GATE!" has turned into "FUCK TERRAN, 2 RAX SO CHEESY, LAME SHIT TERRAN. NERF PLZ". Instead of people watching the games and enjoying the games, all we see nowadays are people complaining about how the game is broken, etc. Yeah, instead of blaming that player for playing poorly, they blame the other race for being overpowered or the other player for doing "cheesy shit".
Its because even though there are rules against it, they aren't enforced. I know moderating the LR thread in real time is probably really difficult but it would probably help if they went through the thread afterwards and dropped the ban hammer on everyone whining about balance. It would at least help for next time.
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Whya re people so upset about protoss? Or am I reading the graph wrong?
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United States238 Posts
Because, just like how it was with Z when FD won, most Protoss have yet to adjust to MC style, so they continue to jingjing.
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Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD...
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On December 21 2010 07:17 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD...
For very good reason; thus the patch. Things are fine right now -- hopefully 1.2 will simply refine what is a very solid base.
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man I can't believe there's so much imbalance of protoss QQ now.
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Two things regarding MC's win. His win for me is like FD's win in GSL1. Fantastic, against the odds (when it started), but ultimately, does not show that the race is OP. It's just MC is a great player, especially in PvT.
His PvZ is yet to be seen. Rather, it seems it is inconsistent. He went out in GSL2, he went out in some smaller tournaments against Zerg players, and he won against only one Zerg in GSL3 - July.
Compare this to FD. He played against Inca, and his PvZ seems pretty inconsistent as well.
So coming back, I do think Protoss still needs some patches. There's no other Protoss players that are setting world alight. Next in line Protoss players seem very far off. Sure, one can argue that the potential of Protoss race is not being employed correctly by others, so they just have to improve. OK, I accept that. Still, I don't think P is OP. And I am eager to see MC play against more Z players.
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On December 21 2010 07:17 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD...
Thats how metagame works
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On December 21 2010 08:27 ZlaSHeR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 07:17 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD... Thats how metagame works
I wish Teamliquid had a similar thing they could incorporate below the poll, would be interesting to compare foreigners to Koreans and see if there are similarities.
I think so far it has been which ever race/player did well in the GSL so far, That is what it looks like to me anyways.
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On December 21 2010 08:31 NuKedUFirst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 08:27 ZlaSHeR wrote:On December 21 2010 07:17 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD... Thats how metagame works I wish Teamliquid had a similar thing they could incorporate below the poll, would be interesting to compare foreigners to Koreans and see if there are similarities. I think so far it has been which ever race/player did well in the GSL so far, That is what it looks like to me anyways.
i think TL wants to encourage as little balance QQ as possible
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On December 21 2010 09:13 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 08:31 NuKedUFirst wrote:On December 21 2010 08:27 ZlaSHeR wrote:On December 21 2010 07:17 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Interesting how qq % have gotten more even with the passing of time, some months ago it seems zergs where QQIng HARD... Thats how metagame works I wish Teamliquid had a similar thing they could incorporate below the poll, would be interesting to compare foreigners to Koreans and see if there are similarities. I think so far it has been which ever race/player did well in the GSL so far, That is what it looks like to me anyways. i think TL wants to encourage as little balance QQ as possible
Or, it might provide an alternative outlet for QQ rage when the need to QQ arrises. I've definitely voted on the playXP QQ poll and damn, it feels a lot better than writing a whiny post on TL.
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On December 21 2010 08:25 Xxavi wrote:
Two things regarding MC's win. His win for me is like FD's win in GSL1. Fantastic, against the odds (when it started), but ultimately, does not show that the race is OP. It's just MC is a great player, especially in PvT.
His PvZ is yet to be seen. Rather, it seems it is inconsistent. He went out in GSL2, he went out in some smaller tournaments against Zerg players, and he won against only one Zerg in GSL3 - July.
Compare this to FD. He played against Inca, and his PvZ seems pretty inconsistent as well.
So coming back, I do think Protoss still needs some patches. There's no other Protoss players that are setting world alight. Next in line Protoss players seem very far off. Sure, one can argue that the potential of Protoss race is not being employed correctly by others, so they just have to improve. OK, I accept that. Still, I don't think P is OP. And I am eager to see MC play against more Z players.
I'm a Protoss player and think Protoss is fine. Infact, I think we're OP from my view point.
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i love the ebb and flow of the graph and its correlation with the gsl games. zerg rising, rising. suddenly MC loses. and nestea geoes 3-0. Protoss shoots up.
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We ought to steal this clever idea and bring it to Team Liquid. We can make pools. We can do graphs. And we certainly can QQ with the best of them.
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The JingJing index really starts to get interesting now that we can view it over longer and longer periods of time. It appears at least somewhat predictive of what we can expect balance opinions to be in the near future. Based on the last week or so, I'd say we're headed for some (even more) epic Zerg QQ.
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i'm looking forward to the results following the patch 1.3.0.
go vote folks.
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I've been scanning back through the jingjing graphs, and it makes for very interesting reading, particularly seeing all the trends. It looks like Terran may actually be at it's smallest percentage ever currently.
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On August 12 2011 11:08 Jumbled wrote:
I've been scanning back through the jingjing graphs, and it makes for very interesting reading, particularly seeing all the trends. It looks like Terran may actually be at it's smallest percentage ever currently.
Same with Protoss, the race is doing so bad right now, down to just 7.5%
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On August 12 2011 11:10 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:08 Jumbled wrote:
I've been scanning back through the jingjing graphs, and it makes for very interesting reading, particularly seeing all the trends. It looks like Terran may actually be at it's smallest percentage ever currently. Same with Protoss, the race is doing so bad right now, down to just 7.5%
Green is Terran. Protoss is blue.
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On August 12 2011 11:10 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:08 Jumbled wrote:
I've been scanning back through the jingjing graphs, and it makes for very interesting reading, particularly seeing all the trends. It looks like Terran may actually be at it's smallest percentage ever currently. Same with Protoss, the race is doing so bad right now, down to just 7.5%
The site tracks which race Korean voters on playxp think is the weakest. The green bar at 8.5% is Terran, indicating that only 8.5% of voters think Terran is the weakest race given the current state of the game.
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Hahaha, the site is amazing!!!
I was confused for a bit and then I worked out how it works:
Red - Zerg
Green - Terran
Blue - Protoss
The % is the amount of qq. That is, the higher the value, the worse the people who voted think the race is. Also, the charts are ordered from latest to earliest. Start at the bottom to see the trends.
There was a period where terran qq was at the highest - around Mar/Apr 2011, and I'm guessing that co-incided with the "unbeatable macro zerg" of the GSL3 era. I also remember during the first GSTL that the protoss rose to prominence.
It'll be super interesting if someone inserts timelines into the graph (e.g. when were the balance patches, what GSL event at that time, etc).
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I vote in this every day, got to represent my race and be honest. Have been using it for a couple of months.
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I'm wondering who are the idiots who are qqing over random T.T It's almost as lame as QQing about mirror matchups
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On August 12 2011 11:27 Carapas wrote:
I'm wondering who are the idiots who are qqing over random T.T It's almost as lame as QQing about mirror matchups
It's not random. It's nothing or balanced. That would be silly.
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I'm so glad this thread got bumped as I missed it the first time!
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This is quite biased considering only about <26% of the server play zerg.
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On one hand; haha this is awesome!
On the other; god damn whiners.
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On August 12 2011 11:28 DeepBlu2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:27 Carapas wrote:
I'm wondering who are the idiots who are qqing over random T.T It's almost as lame as QQing about mirror matchups It's not random. It's nothing or balanced. That would be silly.
Lol ty, I really need to start reading everything in OPs!
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On August 12 2011 11:30 arbitrageur wrote:
This is quite biased considering only about <26% of the server play zerg.
how can you tell? sorry i dont read korean lol.
The highest qq thus far was zerg during august 2010, 80% qq lol.
On August 12 2011 11:33 nokz88 wrote:
Is it copyrighted? If not TL should do something like this. Looking back the QQ timeline is sooooo interesting.
YES!!!
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Is it copyrighted? If not TL should do something like this. Looking back the QQ timeline is sooooo interesting.
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On August 12 2011 11:30 arbitrageur wrote:
This is quite biased considering only about <26% of the server play zerg.
Seeing as Zergs qq twice as hard as any other race, I think it balances out.
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On August 12 2011 11:33 nokz88 wrote:
Is it copyrighted? If not TL should do something like this. Looking back the QQ timeline is sooooo interesting.
If you're interested, you can always participate in the voting on playXP yourself. There's no real need for TL to duplicate it, and they may not feel it suits the site in any case.
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I scrolled through it quickly and it looked like blue and red were playing tug and war with green just sandwiched in the middle :S says something about qq?
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I'm glad this got bumped, i think its a great resource. I really wish we had a western qq chart. It would offer a nice outlet for what we all feel. Balance is the most important thing in the game... yet we are forbidden to talk about it. How strange.
Since this is a qq thread I'll let loose and the trends make perfect sense. Protoss is destined to be the weakest race by design (ala bw) bc of rigidness and few creative options. Zerg is the most fragile bc it is reactionary and the most macro oriented. This is what we see in the jingjing charts. The powerful zerg qq is instigated by several prominent figures and then becomes so powerful it demands balance changes which inevitably happen. The stoic protoss hero accepts the legitimacy of his cause (bisu), his position in the balance world, and thereby takes the good times of "protoss imba" when they come until someone discovers how to play against it. Then our protagonist then has few competitive options and only best the protoss win competively. Eventually, even the strongest protoss competitors become ineffectual (mc) and qq rises, though not vehemently, bc everyone 'knows' protoss is the most imba ("z isnt supposed to beat p").
Blizzard has, imo a pretty sharp eye on things even if they act aloof and eventually will set things right. In BW at times it took years for an important change to happen but it did. This situation is getting serious enough that I think we'll see a patch before hots even though that was so unlikely a few months ago when win rates were nearly even, as was qq.
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This is fun to see again. Protoss Jingjing hasn't been this bad since the end of last year during GSL1+2 when all the Protoss were getting owned by Terran bumrushes up the ramp.
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Interesting to see the protoss qq decreasing post 1.4!
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On September 26 2011 23:38 Azzur wrote:
Interesting to see the protoss qq decreasing post 1.4!
I suspect a lot of Protoss QQers (including myself) are waiting to see what effect 1.4 has at the highest level of play.
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terran players are so happy
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pujingjing
is the best jingjing
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hey at least the purple bar is increasing.
p.s. scroll up and down really fast and notice the green bar haha.
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Why are Terrans complaining on this chart?
Was it trying to anticipate the downturn for TvX or has there been a major metagame change in Korea that is unknown to us?
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On October 08 2011 07:15 Jermstuddog wrote:
Why are Terrans complaining on this chart?
Was it trying to anticipate the downturn for TvX or has there been a major metagame change in Korea that is unknown to us?
looK@how many people vote. don't base the korean server balance on this poll lol xD
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EPT
