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I've been following the evolution of the beta quite closely since it came out (obvious disclaimer: I don't have it), and I'm partially disturbed but intrigued by the new strategy that has developed of essentially gunning for an opponents HQ. The building health thread touched on this, but I want to get a feel for what everyone thinks about this. In SC1 (which I am not very good at), I can never remember even considering "going after a CC" to be a viable strategy that would result in a game win for me. Going after a expo sure, they are exposed and often vulnerable. But never would you be able to penetrate quickly or easily enough into an opponents main to destroy his HQ and essentially auto-win the game, not without killing his army first. Workers were always the first target, but in a lot of matches I see people shooting the peons while they could almost just as easily have taken out the HQ itself. With the variety of "glass cannon" units in SC2, it's become completely viable and often quite common to "snipe" it out in 20 seconds or less (here's looking at you, reapers, void rays).
My first instinct is to be completely against this, as it does seem like an "unfair" strategy that requires an inordinate amount of attention to your base at any one time to prevent such an attack. But I am also considering how this could simply be one of the things that change in SC2. Non-tech buildings didn't used to be strategic targets. Now they are. Does this sound reasonable to people here? I'm especially interested in the opinions of those of you at much higher levels of play than I am.
Poll: Should "sniping" an HQ be a viable strategy? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): Yes, but it should be much more difficult than it currently is
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Forces you to think about keeping defensive static or otherwise when moving out to prevent it which I think is good for the health of the game.
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I don't know which games you've seen but I dont see this as a problem at all.
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huh? you lose game if you lose main CC/Nexus/hatchery?
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On February 25 2010 09:04 cuteFayth wrote: huh? you lose game if you lose main CC/Nexus/hatchery?
I'm talking about very early game, when you haven't even gotta a full expo up and running yet. At that point losing your main source of minerals for however long it takes to rebuild it is pretty much devastating and a gg.
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I don't think it is a problem. Base raids in the form of worker harass can to tremendous damage to the economy in a very short amount of time and can require just as small a unit investment in the harass. Provided you had the resources to rebuild the HQ, it actually takes far less time to recover from a HQ snipe than it does to repopulate your worker saturation. I think this new strategy increases raid diversity and tactics without negatively impacting on the game.
It actually adds some additional strategy to the game. Do I try to keep a minimum of 400 minerals early game in case of HQ snipe? Or do I put those minerals to work in the form of defense or army in order to prevent it in the first place? At what stage in the game do I feel safe to not need the 400 mineral buffer? Do I have appropriate defense for the larger array of unit types which may be attempting harass in my base?
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i dont really see how it's much more of a problem than in SC1.... vision doesn't change much if u cant rebuild ur main... ur dead with or without vision given to opponent
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The new air units are very powerful, this allows for sneaky and early attack on Headquarters without and chance of retaliation. In broodwar you had harassment with wraith, corsairs and muta. Now you have Banshee, mutas and void rays - except banshee and void rays can easily snipe a HQ.
Overall, I'd say it's too early to judge whether it's a bad or good thing. Maybe it's something like DT attacks; you just have to be prepared or it's GG.
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It's just another thing you have to take into account when you decide your build.
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My solution to the "player has been revealed" scenario - a player is only revealed if they have
- no HQ - no ability to build another (ie. either <400mins or no workers)
This means that for end game the necessary mechanic still works (to stop ridiculous numbers of proxy buildings), but if your HQ is sniped early game and you are using a proxy tech strat, your strategy isn't revealed unless they can't recover at all.
EDIT:
In the future somebody will write: "but you never have a spare 400 mins lying around if you're teching early game
To which I reply: "yeah, well, nothing's perfect, it was just a thought," and invite them to read above, where the response was that "it is just something new that you have to keep in mind in SC2."
On February 25 2010 09:06 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 09:04 cuteFayth wrote: huh? you lose game if you lose main CC/Nexus/hatchery? I'm talking about very early game, when you haven't even gotta a full expo up and running yet. At that point losing your main source of minerals for however long it takes to rebuild it is pretty much devastating and a gg.
I don't see this as a problem - if they have the necessary army to come and kill you, surely you've had time to get a defending army? Keep in mind, HQs aren't a complete pushover for marines, lings and lots (from the replays I've seen, don't have beta); and by the time your opponent has 5-6 reapers in your base you should have teched to roaches or stalkers.
Also, I don't mind this strategy for expansion HQs, really - it takes so much longer to rebuild 30 workers than to build 1 HQ again. And if my opponent's gunning for my HQ, I've got more time to pull workers and move my defending army there.
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Great as Protoss, void rays rape buildings.
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Belgium6733 Posts
Reapers are just so powerful. Either the P has his units in the wrong location or you use your nitro-reapers to target other stuff like pylons (its great to see 4 gateways go dark at once).
But if you mess up your reaper force you can get countered very hard.
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