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The zealot's charge ability is described as "the ability to turn their body into pure energy for a few microseconds." As cool as it looks, it just doesn't fit in as well as leg enhancements or as a way to improve their effectiveness.
There was a certain ability in the original that, as powerful as it seemed, could cost a player the game if used incorrectly. This ability is Siege Mode; though there is the freedom to switch between the tank's two modes, decisions must be made as to when and where it is used. Much like Siege Mode, and perhaps Stimpack, I'd like to see zealots, and perhaps more units, with abilities that aren't simply "left on" the whole time.
What I thought of fits fairly well with the lore, and with proper balance, would be a viable way to add to how zealots are used. In short, zealots are templar who can use psionic energy for both their shields and blades. Then, what if a choice was to channel all of a zealot's energy into its blades at the cost of its shields?
How it would work is that it can be toggled, much like siege mode. Upon activation, the zealots would simply lose all their shields (and regeneration thereof) and immediately gain the boost in attack. When deactivated, their attack reverts to their usual, and shields begin to regenerate.
To use this ability to its fullest, zealots would be sent in to fight, and have the ability activated as soon as their shields are depleted. Therefore, this ability is least beneficial to those who have it active all the time, as shields could have soaked up several hits, but that damage is now done, irreparably, to the zealot.
So, how well do you think it fits into the game, how practical is it, etc?
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Cool idea, but I think it would be too strong at high level. It basically gives zealots a free buff in battle once they lose their shields. You could make a similar argument for stimpack and medics, but really those units are useless without stim.
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On January 12 2010 11:40 Letters_and_Numbers wrote: The zealot's charge ability is described as "the ability to turn their body into pure energy for a few microseconds." Says who?
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What I don't like about this, that it has no downfall when the shields are depleted (okay the shield won't regenerate but that's not big matter). That was my smaller problem.
The bigger is, that zealots are too buff units to give them this kind of damage boost. Without their shields they still have 100 HP which is quite a lot. And you can remember what is the matter in SC 1 right?
In Sc1, there are PvZ builds just to get a small upgraded zealot force. With that +2 damage boost, the zealot's power goes up to 2-3 times of the original.
I think my "too buff to give simple damage boost" mindset is the reason why the Marauders don't have access to stimpack and got some alternate ability instead of it.
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This seems a lot like stim to me, causing me not to like it. Also, by your argument, it would seem that you think the leg upgrade for zealots in BW is a bad mechanic, when I think many would disagree. Could you back up this claim?
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So once they don't have enough power to maintain a personal shield they can turn transfer that lack of power to their weapons?
Also, all three of the races lowest tier unit has a way to increase it's movespeed and it is completely necessary if those units are to remain viable past early game.
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Making zealots "useless" without the damage boost could be interesting and prevent them from being too strong. Still, a slow, weak, expensive, melee unit does not make for an exciting early-game for Protoss.
Shield drain for abilities seems like it might be fun to play with though, since optimally it'd demand a lot of micro to manage everyone's shields.
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Working the way you describe the ability would always be good to switch on once you have lost your shields. If instead, the time the buff lasted depended on the amount of shields you had left before you turned the ability on, there would be more room for decisions. I'm not sure if I like even my version though.
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I find it hard to imagine how Charge could "not fit in as well as Leg Enhancements," considering it is Leg Enhancements, albeit with an additional passive effect.
In addition, it's a pretty basic racial difference that Terrans rely more on "toggleable" abilities like Siege Mode, Viking Transform, Stimpack, etc, while Protoss have basic strong units with more active "spell-like" abilities. Now, this is not a hard and fast rule, and there can easily be exceptions added for a suitably cool ability...but this is not it.
It could be cool...but not on the Zealot, I think.
Says who?
Blizzard. Check the announcement video and/or the Zealot page on Starcraft2.com.
I think my "too buff to give simple damage boost" mindset is the reason why the Marauders don't have access to stimpack and got some alternate ability instead of it.
Marauders do have access to stimpacks. It's one reason why I think they're overpowered at this stage of development.
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On January 12 2010 11:54 inReacH wrote: So once they don't have enough power to maintain a personal shield they can turn transfer that lack of power to their weapons? Yeah, I see the flaw with that; it's basically like extra damage to those with higher APM.
On January 12 2010 12:08 DrainX wrote: If instead, the time the buff lasted depended on the amount of shields you had left before you turned the ability on, there would be more room for decisions. I think this is a suitable solution as it better takes into account when you activate the buff, and it does run out.
On January 12 2010 11:54 Albireo wrote: This seems a lot like stim to me, causing me not to like it. Also, by your argument, it would seem that you think the leg upgrade for zealots in BW is a bad mechanic, when I think many would disagree. Could you back up this claim? Ah, sorry if my wording was bad; I meant that the charge ability in particular seemed strange because the lore backing it up. Also, I read somewhere that leg enhancements were better because they could be used both offensively, as well as for retreating, whereas charge is only used when attacking.
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I want my Leg Enhancements back ><
Charge has always seemed really goofy to me. I think Leg Enhancements are the better upgrade gameplay-wise, but Blizzard has to be on the lookout for ways to make the units different in SC2, so they picked Charge.
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I think that if this were to work as a mechanic the zealots shields (and therefore attack bonus) should deplete rather quickly, at the rate of the like 2 points per second or whatever. And for every 10 shield points they have remaining, they get +1 attack. For example, right at the beginning, if they had full shields, it would dip down to 79 shields so they would have 16+7 attack. After 4.5 seconds, their remaining shields would be 69 it would be 16+6 etc. The attack bonus would be distributed among the two hits of their normal attack (so basically 8+3.5, for their normal attacks.) Also, if at any time the ability was cancelled, their shields would be left where they were. If they had no shields when the ability was activated, there would be no effects. This way players would have to choose between a momentary attack buff (for example, during a timing push when those last two sunkens are keeping the zerg from losing) or normal defense (for example, when you are waiting that last second for your units to spawn while holding off those last zerglings with a couple zealots.)
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Why not make charge more controllable?
Like, on a cooldown, but you have to actively engage it. The zealot would then charge rapidly to his destination (within a certain range). You could use it to charge to a unit, a building or the ground (unlike currently). So you could use charge to sprint across the map to reinforce bases more quickly.
They could even add a slight "crash bonus" to his attack (+(1*2) or something small) to indicate that he isnt just charging rapidly and then politely stopping before the enemy unit: he is running it over.
Wonder what other things they could do to zealots? Maybe give them very small splash damage? Or let them attack two targets at once? Or regenerate shield very rapidly outside of battle (original "new" shield mechanic for SC2)?
I think charge works, but i think it can be improved on too.
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Just in case you haven't played it, there is still a passive speed upgrade that comes with Charge. Not like it takes away from your idea but just making sure you know.
Personally, I would want charge over this ability in all situations besides a few pvz ones; and I don't see how you think Charge isn't a good fit for a zealot's character/purpose.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2010 11:40 Letters_and_Numbers wrote: There was a certain ability in the original that, as powerful as it seemed, could cost a player the game if used incorrectly. This ability is Siege Mode; though there is the freedom to switch between the tank's two modes, decisions must be made as to when and where it is used. Much like Siege Mode, and perhaps Stimpack, I'd like to see zealots, and perhaps more units, with abilities that aren't simply "left on" the whole time.
I think this is the issue with your ability. There is no decision. The correct answer to "when should I use this ability" is always "when my zealots run out of shields". There's no additional decision in that.
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On January 12 2010 13:09 Djabanete wrote: I want my Leg Enhancements back ><
Charge has always seemed really goofy to me. I think Leg Enhancements are the better upgrade gameplay-wise, but Blizzard has to be on the lookout for ways to make the units different in SC2, so they picked Charge.
Em....you are aware that Charge both increases the Zealot`s movement speed as well as allows him to charge at specific targets, right?
Charge is essentially Leg Enhancements++.
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I think Charge is a better ability lore-wise than another version of Stim... I thought the topic concerned how long the charge ability should last and/or how fast the Charge should be, wich in my opionion is a more relevant question.
EDIT: Does Charge increase the DPS of the Zealot?
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On January 12 2010 11:40 Letters_and_Numbers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The zealot's charge ability is described as "the ability to turn their body into pure energy for a few microseconds." As cool as it looks, it just doesn't fit in as well as leg enhancements or as a way to improve their effectiveness.
There was a certain ability in the original that, as powerful as it seemed, could cost a player the game if used incorrectly. This ability is Siege Mode; though there is the freedom to switch between the tank's two modes, decisions must be made as to when and where it is used. Much like Siege Mode, and perhaps Stimpack, I'd like to see zealots, and perhaps more units, with abilities that aren't simply "left on" the whole time.
What I thought of fits fairly well with the lore, and with proper balance, would be a viable way to add to how zealots are used. In short, zealots are templar who can use psionic energy for both their shields and blades. Then, what if a choice was to channel all of a zealot's energy into its blades at the cost of its shields?
How it would work is that it can be toggled, much like siege mode. Upon activation, the zealots would simply lose all their shields (and regeneration thereof) and immediately gain the boost in attack. When deactivated, their attack reverts to their usual, and shields begin to regenerate.
To use this ability to its fullest, zealots would be sent in to fight, and have the ability activated as soon as their shields are depleted. Therefore, this ability is least beneficial to those who have it active all the time, as shields could have soaked up several hits, but that damage is now done, irreparably, to the zealot.
So, how well do you think it fits into the game, how practical is it, etc?
This is basically saying you want more spells to be cast and activated and then we end up with something like war3, where he who wins casts the most spells and not the one who controls his armies best.
I think we really don't need more activated spells, we need focus on army movement.
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On January 12 2010 11:40 Letters_and_Numbers wrote: it just doesn't fit in as well as leg enhancements or as a way to improve their effectiveness.
I'd like to see zealots, with abilities that aren't simply "left on" the whole time.
leg enchancements. left on the whole time.
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I think it would be cool if you had two upgrades one for charge and one for leg enhancement therefore you would have to choose between them depending on the situation. For example (i assume) if you want to just do skirmishes then you upgrade legs first or if you want to simply actively take out his army you upgrade charge?
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