[D] A Warpgate Structure instead of a Research - Page 2

LOLItsRyann

England551 Posts

October 16 2012 04:20 GMT

#21

On October 16 2012 07:11 norterrible wrote:
How about, Protoss starts with warpgate, but the range is limited to really close to the the gateway at first. Build this structure and you can upgrade the structure for range increases to your warpgate. If you lose the structure you lose the range of the warpgate.

That sounds cool, but I don't see why that couldn't just be a researchable thing instead of a building.

Addressing the OP though, the part I really like is how you cannot chrono it. Plus, the enemy can see when you place it, and then know when it will finish because you can see the production bar. Whereas as you can't see the progress of warp gate tech research currently.

Fairwell

Austria195 Posts

October 16 2012 09:31 GMT

#22

While warpgate tech actually limits the strength of the gateway units and a lot of things had to be balanced around this ability, it's not as easy to change as most of you might think.

First of all the suggestion of the op wouldn't change all that much, because instead of a warpgate research you would invest that money into another tech structure with the only drawback being for the protoss player that he can't use cb on the construction and the big downside that whenever in the later stages of the game it gets sniped the protoss player is totally screwed because the building would need at least 100sec buildtime (getting temp archives or robo bay sniped is not even nearly as bad).

If you also increase the cost of warpgates a lot (like 200/200 instead of 50/50) early game protoss will just suck a lot. It's like increasing the cost of lair or roachwarren/bane nest a lot or the cost of bio upgrades or factory.

A lot of people think that if you move warpgate tech up the tech tree (like to twilight or even higher) would allow Blizzard to buff gateway units. But a change like this would only mean that protoss has a harder time defending early game or doing aggressive moves like 3/4gate blink or plain 3/4gate pressure/allin if you don't change gateway units along and this stage of the game is quite well balanced right now.

If you also buff the gateway units along this change this would make up for not having warpgates that early (a lot of balance would have to go into this but it could be done) but once warpgates are out all of a sudden protoss has the ability to do mass warpins with gateway units that are way stronger than they used to be and every decent player is aware what mass chargelot warpins or blink stalker warpins are capable of. A lot of balance tweaks to units of the other races would most likely have to go into having the right stuff to deal with it. It's not that gateway units alone are scary in 200/200 fights on their own. It's the fact that once a broodlord/infestor army died for instance it takes a bit to reinforce again and if you have the ability to warpin 20 more blink stalkers in the lategame that are way stronger than they used to be it simply means that both terran and zerg need to be able to have units that they can use to reinforce quicker with than it is right now that can deal with it. Having quicker output of low tech units like roaches/lings etc or bio + maybe hellions would again result in a total shift in all matchups making it way harder to get tech units out.

You might be able to go on like this, but the key point here is:

You can't simply buff gateway units if you move warpgates up in tech tree/make it more expensive or something similar because it will create huge issues in the later stages of the game. And without buffing gateway units along warpgates the only chance is to give protoss even way way better early game defence (like stronger mothership core etc) to make up for it. However, this would most likely be the worst thing that could happen to the game. Protoss not being able to do any scary early game pushes means other races know protoss can only turtle up or tech while harassing and would create a super one-dimensional gamestyle.

Warpgate tech is definitely a really interesting aspect of the game and can be a lot of fun to use (just as stimming bio etc). Unfortunately it requires the protoss game to be balanced around it. Going it only halfway will not only result in Blizzard having to rebalance most of the game but also not provide the best results due to new issues arising. So the only two real possibilities here are:

1. Let warpgate be because the game is balanced around it and it is indeed an interesting mechanic.
2. Remove warpgates completely. Don't move it up the tech tree, change it's cost or something, but remove it completely. I've spent quite much time thinking about it and that's the only longterm solution possible which would allow protoss to have decent gateway units. The whole game will need to be rebalanced though for this.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

October 16 2012 10:23 GMT

#23

terrible idea, protoss already has the most structures. Besides that it would probably have to be 50m50g structure to remain balance which is too cheap, it would be used for walling very much for example.
It just doesn't fit without a complete overhaul for basically no reason whatsoever..

hobbidude

Canada171 Posts

October 16 2012 10:25 GMT

#24

Id rather just be the nexus, mothership,and prism get a field matrix or whatever and take it away from the normal pylon. Then allow individual pylons to be upgraded at some lost cost like 50min/gas and decent build time ontop of a pylon build time so you have to commit more to proxy style pylons but defensive advantage would still be in play. Best yet we even have the art assets available with the monolyth/dark pylon. Your opponent could more easily take out the proxy pylon too since it would be obvious which one it was and would be less of them.

Anomi

Sweden149 Posts

October 16 2012 11:58 GMT

#25

why not make the warp gate building work as a nydus network. Build units from gate way and they go in to the building and deploy them self around ares where u have pylons. 1 way trip if u don't recall them with mothership core.

Or maybe something like the webgate network in dawn of war:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Webway

kldfg

Germany59 Posts

October 16 2012 12:08 GMT

#26

Hm... sniping the Transport Matrix would also stop counters at the same time (which usually come from some warp-in pylons somewhere on the map) and would delay the Protoss from making new units. Plus you get the 3 seconds where the warpgates go back to gateway mode. I think this would give a massive (read: unfair) advantage to the attacker.

Don.681

Philippines189 Posts

October 16 2012 15:12 GMT

#27

For comments regarding a sniped Transport Matrix/early game vulnerabilities:

1. It is very hard to even snipe a well placed pylon before 8 minutes into a game without resorting to cheese. I assume the Transport Matrix would at least have the same stats as a Cybernetics Core and placed better and safer.

2. Mid-game to Late game, a sniped Transport Matrix will have the same impact as sniped pylons, probes, or research buildings. Protoss can actually be played like Terran where reinforcements are queued. Handicapped, but playable. It's just another setback we have to learn not to GG to. I mean if your Cybercore/Robo/Nexus gets sniped is the game over?

3. If you see the Transport Matrix is vulnerable, you can start making another one or preemptively morph Warpgates to Gateways. You can even have that one last warpcyle then morph all Warpgates to Gateways and start queuing up units and build a new Transport Matrix. Warpin is cooling down anyways BTW. Once your new Matrix is up you can start warping in again. Production did not stop. Doesn't sound too bad right?

4. Since the Transport Matrix is a building, presumably balanced to finish at an effective time, more chronoboosts are available for standard units before it finishes. This means more defensive units early game. This makes any 4-gate like scenarios where a Transport Matrix can be sniped unlikely because it will be common to have more than 2 units before the first warpin of the game takes place (this also applies to early proxy rax/gate, 6pool and cannon rushes).

Try this: Play a game and see how many units you can chronoboost before 6:00.

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[D] A Warpgate Structure instead of a Research - Page 2

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