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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:16 nafta wrote: Blizzard were just gonna reveal the lotv cinematic and the stream died rofl Considering it's WCS, it's pretty interesting/sad that it has like 8k viewers only. LOL. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:06 Sufficiency wrote: Obvious FFT spoilers: + Show Spoiler + Only giving a short summary for now: 1. Delita, as a character and as a foil to Ramza, is a failure. His "I want to revenge my sister" path is very bland and lacks struggle. 2. In continuation of 1., the way Ovelia tried to kill Delita can only be called unsatisfactory. Not only were that no signs of Ovelia betraying Delita up until the ending, it seems contradictory to Delita's brilliance to not be able to placate Ovelia whose marriage he derived his throne from 3. Ramza isn't too great either. For the most part, we see that the plot is about "how Ramza reacts to the shit that is thrown at him". 4. I don't like "kill them all" endings without closure. In fact I feel the ending is highly questionable, since he doomed his entire party to save Alma but it wasn't even clear if Alma needed to be saved since she could eject herself from Ultima. 5. I believe the game probably planned for a confrontation between Ramza and Delita, possibly over issues with Ovelia. But this never took place and Ramza got killed off in a highly questionable manner instead. + Show Spoiler + I'll just throw out there that if you believe Ramza died then you probably didn't watch to the end. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:17 Sufficiency wrote: Considering it's WCS, it's pretty interesting/sad that it has like 8k viewers only. LOL. it had 70+k before the crash it might be more cuz there is no koreans in final doe racists | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:06 Sufficiency wrote: Obvious FFT spoilers: + Show Spoiler + Only giving a short summary for now: 1. Delita, as a character and as a foil to Ramza, is a failure. His "I want to revenge my sister" path is very bland and lacks struggle. 2. In continuation of 1., the way Ovelia tried to kill Delita can only be called unsatisfactory. Not only were that no signs of Ovelia betraying Delita up until the ending, it seems contradictory to Delita's brilliance to not be able to placate Ovelia whose marriage he derived his throne from 3. Ramza isn't too great either. For the most part, we see that the plot is about "how Ramza reacts to the shit that is thrown at him". 4. I don't like "kill them all" endings without closure. In fact I feel the ending is highly questionable, since he doomed his entire party to save Alma but it wasn't even clear if Alma needed to be saved since she could eject herself from Ultima. 5. I believe the game probably planned for a confrontation between Ramza and Delita, possibly over issues with Ovelia. But this never took place and Ramza got killed off in a highly questionable manner instead. + Show Spoiler + Regarding 5: What would the point of that be? I can't agree with that at all. A confrontation between Ramza and Delita serves absolutely no purpose with regard to delivering the actual themes of the story, nor would it help the reader better understand the philosophies that underlie each character, and making it be about Ovelia would actually detract from them by focusing on something more superficial. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:18 AsmodeusXI wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'll just throw out there that if you believe Ramza died then you probably didn't watch to the end. + Show Spoiler + He almost definitely died. Orran thought he saw Ramza and Alma, but that's by no means definitive. Additionally: 1. The way Delita said about Ramza at the end seems to imply that Delita had never seen Ramza after the incident and assumed that Ramza died. 2. If Ramza did not die, he would have surely confronted Delita after the battle with Ultima. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On September 14 2015 01:58 Slayer91 wrote: Well the libertarian view is just to let people do what they want as long as they aren't hurting people. The more conservative view is that people are dumb and they sometimes don't know what's best for themselves and you know better. The problem is when you start policing peoples actions you need to have a strong argument if you don't want to start getting hitlerish. (eat it godwin) The issue is even if you can improve some peoples lives by interfering with them you also start persecuting people who are happy with how they live. @Sonnington here's another decent video, I thought both sides got their point across. The job interview woman was hard pressed because of how much job interviews are based on first impressions and sort of just had to blame society, this is more of a fair fight. + Show Spoiler + I don't think that's exclusive to conservatives. You had liberal Michael Bloomberg and de Blasio in New York try to ban large soft drinks to prevent obesity. I like to think I'm more of a liberatarian. You're allowed to do whatever you want, but people are also allowed to call you an idiot for it. You have a right to call people out for making bad decisions and you don't have a right to feel secure about making bad decisions. No one's arguing that police should seize your McDonalds happy meals, but I'd say there's something to the claim that parents who overfeed their children should be vilified by the public. Society doesn't have to create laws or use force, they just have to use their mouths to voice their disapproval. It shouldn't be taboo to do that. @TheYango Do you mean anyone who is not a white male is preferred to get into colleges due to affirmative action? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:23 TheYango wrote: + Show Spoiler + Regarding 5: What would the point of that be? I can't agree with that at all. A confrontation between Ramza and Delita serves absolutely no purpose with regard to delivering the actual themes of the story, nor would it help the reader better understand the philosophies that underlie each character, and making it be about Ovelia would actually detract from them by focusing on something more superficial. + Show Spoiler + It's actually pretty important because Delita from top to bottom was a foil to Ramza. In many ways they mirror each other. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 + Show Spoiler [FFT] + Not having Ramza and Delita confront each other is deliberate and pretty important. While Delita maneuvered politically and did stuff, the one to fight the instigators of the events and put a stop to it (Ultima's resurrection) is Ramza, and Delita never had the slightest idea about all that. You should re-read the introduction which is basically "I found all this to clear my ancestor's name, after the church executed him for heresy. History books say this, but there's another truth behind it." That's a major theme of the game, which is reflected in the Germonik scriptures, their impact, and how this is also about the official history missing a bunch of information about the real situation. The whole "the truth is actually a plot to resurrect an ancient evil and you have to destroy it once and for all" is bland, I'll give you that, but everything leading up to it and the implications is opposite to what you seemed to expect from the game. As for Ovelia she flipped out when she realised Delita had played her all along, wanting the throne and not to help her, and that despite their similar situations he lied to her about emphathising. I don't remember what he did to the girl the church sent to monitor him, but it's shown he smooth-talked her in their time together so she wouldn't rat him out. But in the end, for all the sacrifices (of others) he made to get to the throne and get rid of some of the political houses that created the situation he lost his sister to, Delita ends up at the top, but all alone. He probably didn't expect Ovelia to form the thought of attacking him because she appeared vulnerable and in need of landmarks the whole time. He played on this and gave her what she needed so she'd love him, but he didn't expect her to find the truth, nor lift her hand against him. On the other hand, since the passage where Ovelia was revealed a fake (a great moment of the game imo), and her reactions from it, you as the player could expect Ovelia to react violently (not necessarily physical) if she realised she was treated as a tool again, especially by the person who'd come to her to call her a person and offer to give he a place in the world. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:28 Sufficiency wrote: + Show Spoiler + It's actually pretty important because Delita from top to bottom was a foil to Ramza. In many ways they mirror each other. + Show Spoiler + Of course, but having them confront each other directly doesn't actually serve to further the clash between their ideals whatsoever, especially since how they succumb to the forces of history is much more relevant to the other thematic elements of the story | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:28 Sonnington wrote: I don't think that's exclusive to conservatives. You had liberal Michael Bloomberg and de Blasio in New York try to ban large soft drinks to prevent obesity. I like to think I'm more of a liberatarian. You're allowed to do whatever you want, but people are also allowed to call you an idiot for it. You have a right to call people out for making bad decisions and you don't have a right to feel secure about making bad decisions. No one's arguing that police should seize your McDonalds happy meals, but I'd say there's something to the claim that parents who overfeed their children should be vilified by the public. Society doesn't have to create laws or use force, they just have to use their mouths to voice their disapproval. It shouldn't be taboo to do that. are you saying you'd prefer to treat people who have a problem with deprecation rather than compassion? or if they don't think they have a problem who are you to decide that they do? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Sunaj
Canada2041 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:34 Ansibled wrote: Blizzard 10/10 trolls. I'm losing my mind so hard watching this. I just want to watch the fkin trailer, not listen to a buncha empty talkin  | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:28 Sonnington wrote: You're allowed to do whatever you want, but people are also allowed to call you an idiot for it. The thing is, verbal harassment and abuse are probably the absolute weakest way to induce change in someone over poor lifestyle patterns. It actually detracts from the real discussion you want to have. Like, think about this from the perspective of a fat person choosing not to make a life change. Of all the possible forces pushing them to do so (better overall health/longevity, better workplace performance/higher likelihood of getting or improving a job, more likely to get a girlfriend/boyfriend, better body image within societal norms, etc.), "someone called me mean names for it" is probably one of the absolute rock bottom reasons to make a change. How much it actually influences someone vs. how much it generates counterproductive discussion is just completely disproportionate. The reason society is so hung up about being nice to people is because being mean to people actually has so little power to induce change while just making you look like an asshole. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:43 TheYango wrote: The thing is, verbal harassment and abuse are probably the absolute weakest way to induce change in someone over poor lifestyle patterns. It actually detracts from the real discussion you want to have. Like, think about this from the perspective of a fat person choosing not to make a life change. Of all the possible forces pushing them to do so (better overall health/longevity, better workplace performance/higher likelihood of getting or improving a job, more likely to get a girlfriend/boyfriend, better body image within societal norms, etc.), "someone called me mean names for it" is probably one of the absolute rock bottom reasons to make a change. How much it actually influences someone vs. how much it generates counterproductive discussion is just completely disproportionate. The reason society is so hung up about being nice to people is because being mean to people actually has so little power to induce change while just making you look like an asshole. This oddly enough also works on people in abusive relationships. Telling them how dumb they are for sticking in that relationship only further cements how "worthless" they are as human beings thus why they "deserve" this person that abuses them. Showing that person that they are worth something is a better way to help them. I'm not sure why I mentioned this :<. Guess it's just tragic to me that such relationships exist. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:32 Slayer91 wrote: are you saying you'd prefer to treat people who have a problem with deprecation rather than compassion? or if they don't think they have a problem who are you to decide that they do? I'm saying you should reprimand people for bad behaviour and commend them for good behaviour. It seems to be famously quoted that positive reinforcement works better than negative reinforcement, but it's not taking into account that using both together is most effective. For instance, in our PC culture parents can't even tell their kids are overweight! http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2015/03/30/can-you-tell-if-your-child-is-overweight-most-parents-cant-study-finds/ They don't even know they're doing anything wrong! The question of who am I to say something is right or wrong? Because it -is- wrong. Because in our society we have things we overwhelmingly agree upon are good and bad. It's bad to be overweight because you die faster, you're more prone to debilitating illnesses, you have less energy, and you're not able to perform tasks as easily and efficiently. The same question can be asked of the antismoking campaigns and the same reasons can be stated. Who are you to say smoking is bad? Who are you to say it's a problem? I feel, as a society, over eating and obesity should be discouraged and we shouldn't be afraid to express those feelings. Furthermore, parents that allow or feed their children too much should be seen as bad or worse than parents that smoke in cars or in their house with their children. It's actually more akin to giving your children a pack and lighter than smoking around them. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Fat shaming kids isn't the only way to teach parents that their kids are obese, and is actually probably the least believable for them. The fact that socioeconomic and racial groups that typically have poorer access to higher education are the ones that were more "wrong" actually supports the idea that this is an education problem foremost. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On September 14 2015 02:53 TheYango wrote: I don't know how you conflated poor education about obesity with lack of negative reinforcement. Fat shaming kids isn't the only way to teach parents that their kids are obese, and is actually probably the least believable for them. Fat shaming is an ambiguous term to prevent people from saying anything bad about being fat or anything good about being skinny. Anything can be considered fat shaming. There's a difference between feeling shame for something and someone being malicious and cruel. I'm not sure why people think those two things are mutually exclusive. And by the way, how do you account for the success of antismoking campaigns that go to great lengths to make smokers look stupid? Edit: It's rather arguable that racial groups are more predisposed to being overweight. By racial groups I'm sure you're referring to blacks, since Asians generally have a lower BMI. From the surveys I've seen, black men are more likely to have a lower BMI than white men. While black women have a higher BMI than white women. But overall, I agree with you. People should be better educated. One way to do that is by not feeling like you're doing something wrong or shaming someone when you tell them what they're doing is bad for them. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
if parents don't know their children are overweight that's different from parents thinking their children are overweight and they don't think its a problem. | ||
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